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Is math

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Re: Is math

Postby tzor on Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:35 am

Symmetry wrote:Do you think that there are a finite number of numbers? Think of the biggest number you can. Now add 1. There are an infinite number of numbers.


How limited. Since I am accused of all sorts of pedantic points I will point out that it is impossible to fit the set of irrational numbers into the "infinite" set of rational numbers (which is equal to the "infinite" set of counting numbers which you just cited). So once you get to the mind blowing infinity, you still have an infinite number of mind blowing levels to obliterate your mind.
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Re: Is math

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:03 pm

tzor wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
tzor wrote:First of all mathematics was neither invented or discovered. The laws of mathematics, on the other hand ... were both invented and discovered.


And... as usual, tzor wins the award for most pedantic and least informational post of the month.


Thank you. Few people realize the amount of hours I spend in order to get this award. It's not easy to be pedantic. It requires a lot of hard work and study. In fact few people probably know what pendant means. No one ever uses it in a sentence. How sad.


It's pedant, not pendant.

Incidentally, that's a sentence.
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Re: Is math

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:35 pm

Don't know if this helps or makes me look like an idiot.


Mathematical Logic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_logic

OR

First-order Logic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic
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Re: Is math

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:08 am

Symmetry wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:I'm not being a dick, I'm serious, I love these threads. Please, give me more.


And you like to feel superior, and make other people know you're superior, without actually saying why you think they're wrong.

That'd be being a dick, Mets. You're being a dick.


Perhaps his high and mightiness comes from our lack of acknowledging his discovering of the circle jerk of dicks
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Re: Is math

Postby tzor on Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:34 pm

Dukasaur wrote:It's pedant, not pendant.


It's spelling. :twisted:
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Re: Is math

Postby mookiemcgee on Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 pm

Just stick with blaming anything you don't understand on god. It's worked for 1000's of years, and it's kinda why humans invented god(s) anyway. God farted on your dice, and now they stick. So much simpler and more convenient than math...
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Re: Is math

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:33 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:God farted on your dice, and now they stick.

I'm going to use this line in game chats.
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Re: Is math

Postby mookiemcgee on Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:16 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:God farted on your dice, and now they stick.

I'm going to use this line in game chats.


Ok but correct my spelling error first! they 'stink*'
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Re: Is math

Postby Symmetry on Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:19 pm

tzor wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
tzor wrote:First of all mathematics was neither invented or discovered. The laws of mathematics, on the other hand ... were both invented and discovered.


And... as usual, tzor wins the award for most pedantic and least informational post of the month.


Thank you. Few people realize the amount of hours I spend in order to get this award. It's not easy to be pedantic. It requires a lot of hard work and study. In fact few people probably know what pendant means. No one ever uses it in a sentence. How sad.


You mostly just copy\paste from Wikipedia.
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Re: Is math

Postby notyou2 on Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:38 pm

This is the thread where we find out patches is a Brit living in the land of the freely oppressed.
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Re: Is math

Postby tzor on Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:52 pm

Symmetry wrote:You mostly just copy\paste from Wikipedia.


Because it is easier. I could type something verbatim from a book, but that takes WORK. I don't want to just spout words without proper citations because you can't tell the difference from researched BS verses pull the BS out of your ass BS. I could add book and page number references but no one is going to go to a library and get the book to verify by references. So I copy and paste from Wikipedia.
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Re: Is math

Postby tzor on Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:Just stick with blaming anything you don't understand on god. It's worked for 1000's of years, and it's kinda why humans invented god(s) anyway.


Actually it's not. :twisted:

Most gods were a projection of the foibles of men upon the universe at large.
Which was why most gods were arrogant snots or mentally disturbed.
(Because you can't say your ruler sucks but you can describe his suck in the actions of the gods writ large.)
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Re: Is math

Postby Symmetry on Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:33 pm

tzor wrote:
Symmetry wrote:You mostly just copy\paste from Wikipedia.


Because it is easier. I could type something verbatim from a book, but that takes WORK. I don't want to just spout words without proper citations because you can't tell the difference from researched BS verses pull the BS out of your ass BS. I could add book and page number references but no one is going to go to a library and get the book to verify by references. So I copy and paste from Wikipedia.


I genuinely sympathise, but you could always just write your summary and post a link rather than copy\pasting huge blocks of text. That way you get the best of both worlds.
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Re: Is math

Postby mookiemcgee on Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:52 pm

Symmetry wrote:
tzor wrote:
Symmetry wrote:You mostly just copy\paste from Wikipedia.


Because it is easier. I could type something verbatim from a book, but that takes WORK. I don't want to just spout words without proper citations because you can't tell the difference from researched BS verses pull the BS out of your ass BS. I could add book and page number references but no one is going to go to a library and get the book to verify by references. So I copy and paste from Wikipedia.


I genuinely sympathise, but you could always just write your summary and post a link rather than copy\pasting huge blocks of text. That way you get the best of both worlds.


Both worlds being, getting his point across and keeping symm happy? Doesn't seem like #2 should be a priority for him. Maybe you should climb down off your soapbox instead?
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Re: Is math

Postby Symmetry on Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:11 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
tzor wrote:
Symmetry wrote:You mostly just copy\paste from Wikipedia.


Because it is easier. I could type something verbatim from a book, but that takes WORK. I don't want to just spout words without proper citations because you can't tell the difference from researched BS verses pull the BS out of your ass BS. I could add book and page number references but no one is going to go to a library and get the book to verify by references. So I copy and paste from Wikipedia.


I genuinely sympathise, but you could always just write your summary and post a link rather than copy\pasting huge blocks of text. That way you get the best of both worlds.


Both worlds being, getting his point across and keeping symm happy? Doesn't seem like #2 should be a priority for him. Maybe you should climb down off your soapbox instead?


Best of both worlds meaning a concise post, backed up by sources. No need to put me on a soapbox and put words in my mouth. That's just a strawman that you've made to make you feel good when you knock it down.
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Re: Is math

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:36 am

A few comments here:

1) Math can be many things, and it not need be ONLY A) BUT NOT B). It can be BOTH, depending on many factors. Just because is can be ONE does not EXCLUDE the possibility of being the other. Most things in the world are NOT black or white, good or bad, light or dark, as your question suggests; most things are on the continuum of "in-between."

Take for example, from quantum mechanics: the electron can behave as a wave or as a particle, DEPENDING on how it is measured.

2) How did math begin? by simple counting. How many sheep are in my flock? How many rabbits did I kill for dinner? How many apples did I find for my family to eat? Did farmer A bring enough baskets of grain to appease the gods (and feed the priests)?

3) Math has proven to be a valuable TOOL to solve problems. There are numerous examples. That should be self-explanatory.

4) Math can be used to PREDICT things, how nature behaves. It is a fundamental part of science, which attempts to explain AND predict the behavior of things in the world. The Kinetic Molecular theory of gases can rather adequately explain the behavior of REAL gases, based on a few assumptions. Geometry is based on assumptions and can predict the relationships of polygons and numbers.

5) Taken to the extreme, math gets very esoteric and very theoretical and become difficult to grasp. One idea that I could not grasp in calculus was the idea of LIMITS. A similar idea is that of asymptotes, the fact that numbers gets smaller (e.g., divide by 2 continuously, but you can NEVER get to ZERO.....kind of like keep adding one to a number to get to a larger number to get closer to infinity, BUT you never get "there."

6) Nature has a mathematical nature and it is aesthetically pleasing, as in music and harmony and octaves. I really do not understand music well enough to explain better, BUT nearly everyone appreciates the sound of some form of MUSIC.

7) There are certain mathematically constants that keep appearing in many scientific equations, such as pi, e, h (Planck's constant) and R (the ideal gas constant).

8) To me, #7 points to a fundamental “beauty” and simplicity of nature, based on Math.

9) Albert Einstein had a series of debates with Neils Bohr, one of the major figures in quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics explain the very small (electrons, photons, strong nuclear force, and such). Einstein did not like the statistical nature (based on probability of dice and other random events….(DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR??...). Anyway, Einstein is quoted as saying, “God does not play with dice.” Bohr’s response: “Einstein, stop telling God what to do.” Einstein liked causality, and hated the probability as the basis for quantum mechanics.

10) One of the basic goals of Physics has been to explain the ENTIRE cosmos in a series of a few relatively simple mathematical equations. Will we get there? Is the cosmos really mathematical? Ask a highly respected physicist , like Michio Kaku.

11) I hope this answers the initial question posed, or at least sheds some light on the matter. (There is a pun there.....).
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Re: Is math

Postby WingCmdr Ginkapo on Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:00 am

Anyone going to mention the difference between maths and mechanics? Thought not

Maths is arbitrary
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Re: Is math

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:01 am

Quantum Mechanics is where I take my quanta for repairs...... :D

Math is math...numbers and how to use them and what to do with them.....Like Counting.....see #1 above.

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Re: Is math

Postby notyou2 on Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:38 am

jusplay4fun wrote:A few comments here:

1) Math can be many things, and it not need be ONLY A) BUT NOT B). It can be BOTH, depending on many factors. Just because is can be ONE does not EXCLUDE the possibility of being the other. Most things in the world are NOT black or white, good or bad, light or dark, as your question suggests; most things are on the continuum of "in-between."

Take for example, from quantum mechanics: the electron can behave as a wave or as a particle, DEPENDING on how it is measured.

2) How did math begin? by simple counting. How many sheep are in my flock? How many rabbits did I kill for dinner? How many apples did I find for my family to eat? Did farmer A bring enough baskets of grain to appease the gods (and feed the priests)?

3) Math has proven to be a valuable TOOL to solve problems. There are numerous examples. That should be self-explanatory.

4) Math can be used to PREDICT things, how nature behaves. It is a fundamental part of science, which attempts to explain AND predict the behavior of things in the world. The Kinetic Molecular theory of gases can rather adequately explain the behavior of REAL gases, based on a few assumptions. Geometry is based on assumptions and can predict the relationships of polygons and numbers.

5) Taken to the extreme, math gets very esoteric and very theoretical and become difficult to grasp. One idea that I could not grasp in calculus was the idea of LIMITS. A similar idea is that of asymptotes, the fact that numbers gets smaller (e.g., divide by 2 continuously, but you can NEVER get to ZERO.....kind of like keep adding one to a number to get to a larger number to get closer to infinity, BUT you never get "there."

6) Nature has a mathematical nature and it is aesthetically pleasing, as in music and harmony and octaves. I really do not understand music well enough to explain better, BUT nearly everyone appreciates the sound of some form of MUSIC.

7) There are certain mathematically constants that keep appearing in many scientific equations, such as pi, e, h (Planck's constant) and R (the ideal gas constant).

8) To me, #7 points to a fundamental “beauty” and simplicity of nature, based on Math.

9) Albert Einstein had a series of debates with Neils Bohr, one of the major figures in quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics explain the very small (electrons, photons, strong nuclear force, and such). Einstein did not like the statistical nature (based on probability of dice and other random events….(DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR??...). Anyway, Einstein is quoted as saying, “God does not play with dice.” Bohr’s response: “Einstein, stop telling God what to do.” Einstein liked causality, and hated the probability as the basis for quantum mechanics.

10) One of the basic goals of Physics has been to explain the ENTIRE cosmos in a series of a few relatively simple mathematical equations. Will we get there? Is the cosmos really mathematical? Ask a highly respected physicist , like Michio Kaku.

11) I hope this answers the initial question posed, or at least sheds some light on the matter. (There is a pun there.....).


Your math is weird. When will you start using the number 8 in the US?
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Re: Is math

Postby 2dimes on Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:31 pm

Big
Fat
Hot Dog?



Oh, hell yeah.
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Re: Is math

Postby Symmetry on Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:16 pm

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:Anyone going to mention the difference between maths and mechanics? Thought not

Maths is arbitrary


Mechanics are pretty arbitrary in my experience. A new alternator shouldn't cost what they charged me.
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Re: Is math

Postby warmonger1981 on Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Science is not absolute but numbers and math is.
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Re: Is math

Postby WingCmdr Ginkapo on Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:42 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:Science is not absolute but numbers and math is.


Can you explain that please.

Why has no one solved the equation for power in fluid dynamics yet if maths is an absolute?
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Re: Is math

Postby warmonger1981 on Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:06 am

Obviously the science is neither concrete or absolute. Just like the big bang theory is just that. A theory. You seem like a smarty pants so what's your theory as you seem to be educated in the equation for power in fluid dynamics. All I'm saying is math is always correct when applied with all known factors.
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Re: Is math

Postby WingCmdr Ginkapo on Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:13 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:Obviously the science is neither concrete or absolute. Just like the big bang theory is just that. A theory.


Agreed

warmonger1981 wrote:All I'm saying is math is always correct when applied with all known factors.


Maths is correct when ALL factors are applied. It is not true that ALL factors are necessarily KNOWN.
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