The world should vote in the US elections

[mrswdk]

patches, if you want to convince warmonger then you'll need to show him how your plan will help keeps reds out from under American beds.

[patches70]

patches, if you want to convince warmonger then you'll need to show him how your plan will help keeps reds out from under American beds.

I don't have a plan on how to keep the reds out from under beds. If I found one under my bed I'd just shoot it. I can't speak for other people and what they would/should do.
As for convincing warmonger, I'm not so concerned with changing his mind, I'm more curious to find out how far he'd be willing to go to keep the canal. How many people he thinks it's ok to kill in order to keep a canal. There has to be a number.

For instance, I'd be willing to kill quite a few Chinese {or Panamanians, Russians, British or anyone else non American for that matter) in order to keep any US state. The Chinese trying to take over, say, Florida is probably worth fighting for, including and up to fighting to the death. This excludes something like a civil war where Florida wants to secede, in which at this time I have no way to predict which side I'd fall on in such a scenario. It would all depend on the circumstances, I have little interest, will or desire in fighting against my fellow countrymen. Against foreign opponents that all changes though, for me at least.
The Panama Canal, not so much. IMO. I'm not really interested in having the blood of others covering me in order to keep it.

Luckily I don't see such things coming to be in the near future so it's just a hypothetical. I just find it kind of silly wigging out over the Panama Canal. Seems trivial, irrelevant especially after so much time. Nothing wrong with the Chinese engaging in business, even if it's in competition with the US. Business is all about competition after all, and contrary to Liberal belief, competition is not a bad thing at all. In fact competition is necessary to build strong people/institutions/businesses. f*ck a "participation trophy" and if in the course of a competition one should lose, it's no reason to lament, someone has to lose after all when two parties are competing. The act of competing is reward in and of itself. We learn a lot from our losses and become better, stronger and wiser for them.
You just gotta know how not to be a sore loser and how to be a gracious winner.

[mrswdk]

I'd be willing to kill quite a few Chinese {or Panamanians, Russians, British or anyone else non American for that matter) in order to keep any US state. The Chinese trying to take over, say, Florida is probably worth fighting for, including and up to fighting to the death. This excludes something like a civil war where Florida wants to secede, in which at this time I have no way to predict which side I'd fall on in such a scenario. It would all depend on the circumstances, I have little interest, will or desire in fighting against my fellow countrymen. Against foreign opponents that all changes though, for me at least.

What if it was the British army taking control of Florida, but they were only doing so because Florida voted to leave the US and become part of the UK?

[patches70]

What if it was the British army taking control of Florida, but they were only doing so because Florida voted to leave the US and become part of the UK?

Then I'd be killing some British. Like the Irish guy from Braveheart- "If I fight for you do I get to kill the English?" "Aye, if you fight for me you get to kill the English." "Excellent! Har har har."

If Florida wants to secede then it'll be between us and any foreign power best stay the hell out of it. One of the many reasons why I urge the US to stay out of other nations civil wars.

[mrswdk]

What if it was the British army taking control of Florida, but they were only doing so because Florida voted to leave the US and become part of the UK?

Then I'd be killing some British. Like the Irish guy from Braveheart- "If I fight for you do I get to kill the English?" "Aye, if you fight for me you get to kill the English." "Excellent! Har har har."

If Florida wants to secede then it'll be between us and any foreign power best stay the hell out of it. One of the many reasons why I urge the US to stay out of other nations civil wars.

So if Florida chose to leave the US and become part of the UK and no British troops were sent over you wouldn't fight it, but if Florida chose to leave the US and become part of the UK and some British troops were sent over, you'd attack them?

[patches70]

So if Florida chose to leave the US and become part of the UK and no British troops were sent over you wouldn't fight it,

I don't know if you are just being stupid or you don't know how to read. I've already stated clearly in the event of a secession I don't know on which side I'd fall. If Florida wanted to secede and become independent it depends on the circumstances of why they want to secede. I may side with Florida, I may side against, I may stay neutral, I just don't know.
In your scenario above (absolutely so improbable that it borders the ludicrous) I probably wouldn't be inclined to support Florida's efforts.

but if Florida chose to leave the US and become part of the UK and some British troops were sent over, you'd attack them?

OH hell yeah, I'd kill some British in that scenario. Somehow I'd think that if Florida seceded and told England they wanted to join the Queen's Land that England would politely tell Florida to f*ck off.
But yeah, British troops on American soil in an effort to secure American land and hold it with force invites a strong reaction which includes killing a shit ton of British bastards. It's not like we haven't killed our fair share of British in the past after all.

Foreign powers knew well enough to stay out of our previous civil war. The foreign powers were likely chuckling with each other while we Americans were killing each other but they weren't stupid enough to entangle themselves in it. Same stands true today even more so. A new American civil war would produce a lot of glee in a lot of foreign nations but they sure as shit would stay as far away from it in action as they possibly could. With good reason obviously.

[Phatscotty]

I wonder how long before the world votes to make America it's little bitch

[mrswdk]

Was just wondering which was the most crucial point for you, the foreign-ness of the people encouraging the secession or the act of secession itself.

[patches70]

Was just wondering which was the most crucial point for you, the foreign-ness of the people encouraging the secession or the act of secession itself.

The foreign-ness without question. I have the same opinion when it's the US messing around with other nations around the world, especially fomenting civil wars, which by coincidence is what the US did to Columbia to get the rights to build the Panama Canal in the first place. Once the Panamanians had achieved independence the US immediately got rights from the chaotic and politically naive newly formed Panamanian government to build and control the canal. It is clear the US took advantage of the situation and manipulated events for her own benefit to the detriment of the Panamanians. Hence comes the animosity in the following decades over the whole thing which was finally resolved when the US turned over the Canal. It took a while, but we eventually did the right thing. IMO.
I can't see you, mrswdk, supporting Hong Kong if suddenly the people of Hong Kong decided that they wanted leave Chinese control and rejoin Britain. There'd be violence and you'd surely support China's efforts to prevent such a thing I'd think.

Basically that's the US, we do shady stuff, like everyone else I suppose, but often times we eventually do the right thing. Not always, and it's not always pleasant or peaceful, but we tend to see the light eventually. We Americans, contrary to some popular belief, are not evil bastards bent on world domination. In general we tend to be like pretty much most people and just wanna live, raise our families and make better lives for ourselves in peace.

I'm all for tending to one's own garden and staying out of his neighbor's garden, so the saying goes.

As for the act of secession itself, it's not hard to empathize with the idea of liberty. I can see myself in situation supporting secession and opposing secession.
For instance, if the US government continues shitting on the US Constitution and a State or States decide to secede in order to preserve and live by the Constitution even if the rest of the country is hell bound on ripping it apart, I can see myself supporting such a thing. On the other hand a State or States wishing to secede because they no longer wish to be bound by the Constitution is something I'm not inclined to support and could actively oppose such a thing.
Then there are so many other scenarios that could happen that I have no way to predict how I would fall until presented with the dilemma.

[warmonger1981]

In all honesty no lives are worth killing. But then again the ends justify the means in some instances. Humans would never progress without a little nudge. I'm not advocating that though. Many of those people died due to illness or malaria I think. You say it's trivial but the way I see it American taxpayer slaved for it. That's like you working your job and giving me the benefits. That doesn't sound good to me.

Here is an interesting article if you have the time to read. Maybe you see things in a different perspective. Not trying to convince you. It's an older article but has many legit arguments such as this.


On June 16, 1978, Carter visited Panama and ex­changed diplomatic documents giving that nation con­trol of the canal. Carter did this despite the Senate's having passed the Brooke Amendment, which said that any exchange of documents should not be effective earlier than March 31, 1979, and treaties should not enter into force prior to October 1,1979. Under interna­tional law the president's actions create a de jure situation that makes the symbolic exchange binding. Many legal experts feel that by symbolically transferring U.S. property to Panama, Carter violated the Constitution of the United States. Under Article IV Section 3, Clause 2, Congress has exclusive power to dispose of federal property and territory.

http://www.czimages.com/CZMemories/Arti ... ellout.htm

[mrswdk]

Was just wondering which was the most crucial point for you, the foreign-ness of the people encouraging the secession or the act of secession itself.

The foreign-ness without question. I have the same opinion when it's the US messing around with other nations around the world, especially fomenting civil wars, which by coincidence is what the US did to Columbia to get the rights to build the Panama Canal in the first place. Once the Panamanians had achieved independence the US immediately got rights from the chaotic and politically naive newly formed Panamanian government to build and control the canal. It is clear the US took advantage of the situation and manipulated events for her own benefit to the detriment of the Panamanians. Hence comes the animosity in the following decades over the whole thing which was finally resolved when the US turned over the Canal. It took a while, but we eventually did the right thing. IMO.
I can't see you, mrswdk, supporting Hong Kong if suddenly the people of Hong Kong decided that they wanted leave Chinese control and rejoin Britain. There'd be violence and you'd surely support China's efforts to prevent such a thing I'd think.

The two aren't really comparable tbh. Hong Kong is a Chinese city, Panama is a separate nation state thousands of kilometers away from the US. Although yes, secession does nobody any good and the idea of Hong Kong breaking away from the rest of China is no different.

[Falkomagno]

Panama was taken by force from Colombia, because it was an interest to build the canal as fast as possible. Colombia was at the moment defining with France the construction, and at the moment of the intervention just finished the rail road that later was the spine of the project, connecting Colon with Panama city. US took advantage of his military power to obtain a beneficial commercial contract, where US can use and operate the canal for 100 years. Well, after the 100 years had to go back to Panamanians, which are by the way doing a very good job at it.

But this is not the topic of this thread.

It seems that the megalomania of trump is stronger than his "dynamic" ideals, so it seems clear that he is going to use the presidency for personal financial gain, for himself and his family. The question is what will happen with the US in relationship with the rest of the world, as the actions will be likely be dictated by the staff rather than by the incompetent reality show businessman. How strong will be the opposition to his evident corruption and conflict of interests? the hillbillies who voted for him, will allow him to do whatever he wants (it seems correct that he could shoot people and still not losing votes, giving the outcome) or at certain point will turn against him? Uncertainty.

[mrswdk]

I think the peso will continue to slide, resulting in Mexico being incorporated as the 50-whateverth state.

[saxitoxin]

US took advantage of his military power to obtain a beneficial commercial contract, where US can use and operate the canal for 100 years. Well, after the 100 years had to go back to Panamanians, which are by the way doing a very good job at it.

Congratulations to the Panamanians for successfully managing a large hole in the ground!

I have three medium-sized rocks in my backyard I need someone to manage. Sounds like the Republic of Panama could be up to the task!

[Falkomagno]

US took advantage of his military power to obtain a beneficial commercial contract, where US can use and operate the canal for 100 years. Well, after the 100 years had to go back to Panamanians, which are by the way doing a very good job at it.

Congratulations to the Panamanians for successfully managing a large hole in the ground!

I have three medium-sized rocks in my backyard I need someone to manage. Sounds like the Republic of Panama could be up to the task!

Calling the Panama canal a large hole in the ground is a reckless simplification...

[Symmetry]

US took advantage of his military power to obtain a beneficial commercial contract, where US can use and operate the canal for 100 years. Well, after the 100 years had to go back to Panamanians, which are by the way doing a very good job at it.

Congratulations to the Panamanians for successfully managing a large hole in the ground!

I have three medium-sized rocks in my backyard I need someone to manage. Sounds like the Republic of Panama could be up to the task!

Calling the Panama canal a large hole in the ground is a reckless simplification...

Hey! A man, a plan, a canal, Panama! Yeh

[saxitoxin]

US took advantage of his military power to obtain a beneficial commercial contract, where US can use and operate the canal for 100 years. Well, after the 100 years had to go back to Panamanians, which are by the way doing a very good job at it.

Congratulations to the Panamanians for successfully managing a large hole in the ground!

I have three medium-sized rocks in my backyard I need someone to manage. Sounds like the Republic of Panama could be up to the task!

Calling the Panama canal a large hole in the ground is a reckless simplification...

Calling mrswdk's vagina a hole is also a simplification. After all, it's part amusement park, part thriving business, part doorway to Narnia.

[mrswdk]

Well, looks like someone's getting an extra Christmas present this year.

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[D3A7H]

Most idiotic thread ever.