WoT:Mem of Light An Ending

[DoomYoshi]

I didn't softclaim anything. I looked through post-by-post at every other player in the game and made notes on how they reacted to the news that dakky was dark. Then when I tallied everything up, most people seemed dark compared to light.

If I was light, I would want to kill dakky while softclaiming dark. If I was dark, I would want to eliminate dakky to appear light. If I am any faction at all, he's just a policy lynch. Since when does eliminating dakky require an explanation?

I really had IB pegged as Light for this comment:

Ok Read up. I thought there would be more...just Dakky self destructing.

Dark can be Town? Light is scum? I can not recall any fantasy novel or mafia game where that has been true. He has stated he is Dark alighned.
He has no choice but to claim.

That's yet another darky though, which means the Light is a pretty slim minority here. Mandy says I am scummy for planting this idea when a) he planted it first and b) it's not a proposition but rather a conclusion drawn from the evidence on my own opinions of who is what alignment.

It does seem very quick.

The Trollocs are stupid and guidless, that much is accurate. They would need a fade to spur them on. I don't know dakky well enough to know if he knows the story enough to come up with this story himself. Is he trying to get lynched or is he truly confused about his role?

Anyway, if we have a defenseless Trolloc cornered it would be best to execute it.

vote dakky

I'm noting this. The entire post feels off. Notes it being quick and then votes at the end of the post. Either fails to note the concern in madmitch or shrugs it off without a word why. Feels like he's either noting concern and then jumping on the bandwagon or guilty conscience.

My guess aligned with Dakky but doesn't want it to be known openly. Concern is legitimate but wanted to vote to cover it up.

I don't know enough about the series to say that factions is unlikely or not but at this point it is just distraction and speculation.

What's the vote count?

Trying to get the talk off of factions when it is obvious to every intelligent person that this is a faction game. Next person who suggests it isn't gets autolynched.

I think strike might have been the inner minority that was brought up earlier. The "truly dark" if you will. He could have been SK or a more typical mafia faction.

[Marashu]

I thought the whole light vs dark debate would have ended with dakky's flip. Flavour-wise, Shaisam was a separate evil from the Dark One (who controls the trollocs), and had a killer fog that, by the end of the series, could raise those it killed to serve it. Leads me to believe he was some sort of cult recruiter, which would also make the line about the mist reaching for people make sense.

If I was light, I would want to kill dakky while softclaiming dark.

Why? I mean, there is the theory of the multiple dark factions, but there's no proof that it's a thing. If it isn't, then the dark team already know who they are, and would know that you were not one of them anyway, so all softclaiming dark while really being light would accomplish is to make it more difficult for your own team to figure out your alignment.

[DoomYoshi]

I thought the whole light vs dark debate would have ended with dakky's flip. Flavour-wise, Shaisam was a separate evil from the Dark One (who controls the trollocs), and had a killer fog that, by the end of the series, could raise those it killed to serve it. Leads me to believe he was some sort of cult recruiter, which would also make the line about the mist reaching for people make sense.

If I was light, I would want to kill dakky while softclaiming dark.

Why? I mean, there is the theory of the multiple dark factions, but there's no proof that it's a thing. If it isn't, then the dark team already know who they are, and would know that you were not one of them anyway, so all softclaiming dark while really being light would accomplish is to make it more difficult for your own team to figure out your alignment.

What makes you think that is even possible? Do you really think that after N0, dakky's team would have let him post that particular comment to start the game off?

[BuJaber]

First of all, Rish distinguished between the Dakky/IB and strike wolf color wise. I am aware that making an assumption based on this can be a mistake, but considering how confused dakky seemed to be in the beginning, and the lore associated with trollocs, I am fairly certain that dakky & IB were 3rd party. It is possible that they were recruitable. We won't know and it doesn't matter now that they're dead. Rish is not given us their roles if any, just their character name and (apparently, a color). You did touch up on this by saying strike might be a "true dark" or typical mafia.

Mandy was saying that you would not have told everyone what alignment you think each of us is unless you were dark yourself. The way I see it, that post seemed very defensive because if you were light and you knew you were part of a minority you would want to appear part of the majority (this is what you said yourself). If you were dark you would want dark to appear as the majority to flip everyone's perception of light vs dark. That would be the safest move. So yeah, it is a little scummy.

Something about tokle's vote post irks me. The way dakky played everyone knew that enough people were gonna vote for him especially with a plurality lynch rule in effect. Meaning he could have come up with any reason to vote, but he talks about how stupid/dependent on a guide trollocs are, states that dakky is cornered and defenseless, and uses that as a reason to vote. That logic seems a little flawed to me. If you meant that he could be dangerous later on as the game develops (recruitable/hidden ability) then why not just say that? Not enough for a vote yet, but I do want to hear from tokle because maybe I misunderstood the post.

Then there's madmitch. Right now he's my top candidate. One of his posts was literally just a smiley. He kept repeating his concern that dakky could be a bomb. Tells me he's being overly cautious. Heck if dakky flipped bomb it would have still been kinda crazy not to vote for him for that reason. Do you know what the odds are of the person who talked at length about a bomb role BEFORE the game even started getting the bomb role that might not even exist? Let's not get stuck in old games, you stated your concern, you could have moved on to other things.

FOS madmitch.

FP'd by Marashu & Doom

[strike wolf]

[aage]

Yeah, night went as I expected. Two dark characters died during the night which means town = dark, scum = light.


brb rounding up everyone who claimed light in the thread.

[aage]

Damn, not nearly as many slips as I remembered there being. Guess it'll be a regular mafia game after all.


I agree with Doom's post, lynching Dakky was perhaps a mislynch but it wasn't a mistake. The counter-intuitive alignments made it impossible to respond to his claim other than to say "you're dark, which is usually scum".

BuJ's posts are mostly good analysis, I disagree that Dakky&IB were both 3rd party though. Beside the statistical odds of two 3rd party dying in a single game cycle, Dakky clearly had the goal "eliminate light", which means he did have an alignment. I can only assume IB had the same goal. I'm considering them both to be dead VT's, since Trollocs don't have any special powers beside being evil and looking weird. Don't let colour flips mislead you, only different colours matter as you pointed out concerning Strike.

[TimWoodbury]

doom you was deffinatly correct about light being scum dark being town so i give you credit for that.im gonna need to go back reread day 1 and n0 to see what i think now that we know for a fact it is light bad dark good.
Pdes by aage. I agree dakky was more or less a policy lynch we needed to do it to get 100% confirmation

[madmitch]

@ Aage noproof of that ,but you might get some people to reveal their roles @ BuJaber of course I was wary of Dakky and questioned everything ,I just haven't seen him play that bad before and now with the two night deaths ,both dark or some fraction of the dark , who's darker or mafia or cult or maybe Aage is right, I am completely lost

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Dakky and IB were not 3rd party.

I say this as a Trolloc.

I am Dark.

I have a one time night action, so very close to vt.

If you want proof I can give the alternative answer as to why I interpreted Dakkys claim into inner circle very quickly. I also have no idea who the strong characters are on our side, I was assuming we were mafia.

Bujaber, I hope this clarifies why I didnt lynch Dakky.

[StorrZerg]

@ Aage noproof of that ,but you might get some people to reveal their roles @ BuJaber of course I was wary of Dakky and questioned everything ,I just haven't seen him play that bad before and now with the two night deaths ,both dark or some fraction of the dark , who's darker or mafia or cult or maybe Aage is right, I am completely lost

vote madmitch

Next lynch boys. Also the hammer went to quickly. I was expecting to get till Wednesday to decide.

[StorrZerg]

Damn, not nearly as many slips as I remembered there being. Guess it'll be a regular mafia game after all.


I agree with Doom's post, lynching Dakky was perhaps a mislynch but it wasn't a mistake. The counter-intuitive alignments made it impossible to respond to his claim other than to say "you're dark, which is usually scum".

BuJ's posts are mostly good analysis, I disagree that Dakky&IB were both 3rd party though. Beside the statistical odds of two 3rd party dying in a single game cycle, Dakky clearly had the goal "eliminate light", which means he did have an alignment. I can only assume IB had the same goal. I'm considering them both to be dead VT's, since Trollocs don't have any special powers beside being evil and looking weird. Don't let colour flips mislead you, only different colours matter as you pointed out concerning Strike.

I think trying to figure out how rishaed set the game up has little value. Pretty sure this game is purposely set up to be confusing and for mass claims to not mean much. Best thing is to lynch for your wincon. I can agree about BuJaber posting.


I'd also wager more light slips would actually be town. If we have a mafia group of light. I'm sure they could figure out town is dark. How ever a single town that's dark could easily assume he's 3rd party as dark or part ofor mafia. Hence having the natural impulse to claim light.

[aage]

I think trying to figure out how rishaed set the game up has little value. Pretty sure this game is purposely set up to be confusing and for mass claims to not mean much. Best thing is to lynch for your wincon. I can agree about BuJaber posting.


I'd also wager more light slips would actually be town. If we have a mafia group of light. I'm sure they could figure out town is dark. How ever a single town that's dark could easily assume he's 3rd party as dark or part ofor mafia. Hence having the natural impulse to claim light.

Yeah that was my thinking also. I thought at least one player made a firm claim that they were 100% light but after checking again I misinterpreted IB's post

[HotShot53]

@ Aage noproof of that ,but you might get some people to reveal their roles @ BuJaber of course I was wary of Dakky and questioned everything ,I just haven't seen him play that bad before and now with the two night deaths ,both dark or some fraction of the dark , who's darker or mafia or cult or maybe Aage is right, I am completely lost

vote madmitch

Next lynch boys. Also the hammer went to quickly. I was expecting to get till Wednesday to decide.

I don't like storr going after the easy lynches... dakky yesterday and MM today... FOS Storr

[madmitch]

and 2) claimed that you are not Town.

For the record, the previous WoT game Rish hosted also didn't actually name roles as "town" or "mafia". My role in this game doesn't say "town" or "mafia" or any indication either.

I'm town though.

Aage, are we hunting for the the evil bloke and his henchmen again? Bets on Mets being the evil bloke?

Dunno, we'll have to get a couple deads to figure that out I think. But it's probably light (town) against dark (scum) based on what I know + common sense.

@ Aage so I guess we better round you up and hang you VOTE Aage

[aage]

and 2) claimed that you are not Town.

For the record, the previous WoT game Rish hosted also didn't actually name roles as "town" or "mafia". My role in this game doesn't say "town" or "mafia" or any indication either.

I'm town though.

Aage, are we hunting for the the evil bloke and his henchmen again? Bets on Mets being the evil bloke?

Dunno, we'll have to get a couple deads to figure that out I think. But it's probably light (town) against dark (scum) based on what I know + common sense.

@ Aage so I guess we better round you up and hang you VOTE Aage

Never said I was light. Nice reading skills.

[madmitch]

Yeah, night went as I expected. Two dark characters died during the night which means town = dark, scum = light.


brb rounding up everyone who claimed light in the thread.

add this to my previous statement and you get my reason for hanging Aage

[TimWoodbury]

good catch mitch im glad you caught that, im tending to agree with you with those 2 posts and then you add this one from D1

Dunno, we'll have to get a couple deads to figure that out I think. But it's probably light (town) against dark (scum) based on what I know + common sense.

"based on what I know" so you knw at that point more then anyone else, how so??

Vote Aage

[StorrZerg]

@ Aage noproof of that ,but you might get some people to reveal their roles @ BuJaber of course I was wary of Dakky and questioned everything ,I just haven't seen him play that bad before and now with the two night deaths ,both dark or some fraction of the dark , who's darker or mafia or cult or maybe Aage is right, I am completely lost

vote madmitch

Next lynch boys. Also the hammer went to quickly. I was expecting to get till Wednesday to decide.

I don't like storr going after the easy lynches... dakky yesterday and MM today... FOS Storr

Easy maybe. Tell me why you think madmitch is town or pro town

[BuJaber]

I don't like storr going after the easy lynches... dakky yesterday and MM today... FOS Storr

They're easy for a reason. And if they're so easy, why didn't you vote for dakky? I know you said SFOS and the lynch did happen very quickly but I reckon you still had time. Like aage said, the discussion was kind of at a standstill because everyone was basically waiting for the dakky lynch to happen. Even day 2 you go with a FOS instead of straight up vote.

Madmitch... here's my problem. Aage being scum doesn't really fit. But regardless... here's a few quotes that could also be interpreted as people claiming to be "light". I think you will find one in particular very familiar:

There are groups in these books that could easily be translated into cult, like the children of the light. And their allignment is not always straight forward.
But the forsaken, the ones who follow the dark one, I think they will be the ones who are scum in this game.
I don't remember any other group that would claim to be "dark".

Yeah dark would be scum because you're light?

Now, I admit that doesn't say Mafia. Maybe the followers of the Dark One are actually a majority in this game which would make them Town. I propose that everyone who is on the side of Dark follow dakky's glowing example and claim their allegiance.

Yeah that was totally not a way to get dark people to show themselves.. Why would he say that if he weren't light?

@ Doom so are you saying a Dark Dakky sort couldn't resist, like I stated before he could just be playing with us. I don't like someone claiming they are town or light right of the get go with no reason to do so.

"Town or light" - subconsciously you're equating them.


See what I mean mitch? Easy to jump to conclusions by picking out posts back when everyone was a little confused about what's what.

Now I definitely want to hear from aage, and now that I put these quotes, the other 3 of you..... but I'm actually very interested in why aage seemed surprised that dakky claimed "trolloc". You questioned him about it and then said "if dakky really flips trolloc this will be a weird game". Definitely seems like aage knows more than he's letting on.

Wing - I take it you didn't use your one-time action? You wouldn't claim that if you caused one of the deaths.


I am aware what my post is implying. This game just got cracked open like an egg... Let's hope I'll end up eating some of the omelette.

[aage]

Now I definitely want to hear from aage, and now that I put these quotes, the other 3 of you..... but I'm actually very interested in why aage seemed surprised that dakky claimed "trolloc". You questioned him about it and then said "if dakky really flips trolloc this will be a weird game". Definitely seems like aage knows more than he's letting on.

Easy, he didn't specify what kind of trolloc initially.


But it seems the Hardly brothers are after me now, so I'll have to be extremely careful in my posts now.

[mandalorian2298]

I didn't softclaim anything. I looked through post-by-post at every other player in the game and made notes on how they reacted to the news that dakky was dark. Then when I tallied everything up, most people seemed dark compared to light.

If I was light, I would want to kill dakky while softclaiming dark. If I was dark, I would want to eliminate dakky to appear light. If I am any faction at all, he's just a policy lynch. Since when does eliminating dakky require an explanation?

I really had IB pegged as Light for this comment:

Ok Read up. I thought there would be more...just Dakky self destructing.

Dark can be Town? Light is scum? I can not recall any fantasy novel or mafia game where that has been true. He has stated he is Dark alighned.
He has no choice but to claim.

That's yet another darky though, which means the Light is a pretty slim minority here. Mandy says I am scummy for planting this idea when a) he planted it first and b) it's not a proposition but rather a conclusion drawn from the evidence on my own opinions of who is what alignment.

While I did FOS you, it was because I saw your "Free Association" post as pro-Dark and, at the time, I thought that Dark = scum.

However, now that a bunch of players is comming out all "Dark and Proud", I am unsure how to proceed. For all you Dark guys: Since you are obviously cool with comming out as Dark, would it be unreasonable to ask why you failed to do so on D1 while it could have saved dakky, your co-Darker?

I am seriously at loss what to write at this point. I can't even look for scum-tells since we have yet to resolve the great moral question: "What is to be scum?"

If this game contained the same amount of light and dark roles there'd be no point in playing, might as well roll a dice and let one side win. Mafia has always been a game of informed minority vs uninformed majority, there is no reason to treat this game differently on day 1.

What if Rish has taken it a step further? What if this is the game in which the majority is so uninformed THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY'RE MAJORITY?

Or else, what if Dark and Light are equal in numbers, with maybe a few Neutrals thown in as a buffer (I don't know if there are Neutrals in the Wheel Of TIme books)? In that case, the de facto majority would be the side that was first to beleivably claim that they are majority?

This game is deep, man.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Is no one going to ask me why I asked specifically for Aages opinion on game thematics? Answer that and his posts make sense.

Sadly by sticking my neck a little bit above the parapet I cant just attempt to lynch Aage with zero evidence anymore as others may actually follow me.

Buj, no I did not use a vig power last night. I may or may not be a vig, i may or may not have used my power. But no I didnt kill IB and ax stated I am not Mat.

Mandy. I didnt lynch Dakky.

On the subject of Storr, I have seen him play like this before, but cant remember when. So I will let yoj know what follow the Storr style means about his alignment if I remember.

[aage]

While I did FOS you, it was because I saw your "Free Association" post as pro-Dark and, at the time, I thought that Dark = scum.

However, now that a bunch of players is comming out all "Dark and Proud", I am unsure how to proceed. For all you Dark guys: Since you are obviously cool with comming out as Dark, would it be unreasonable to ask why you failed to do so on D1 while it could have saved dakky, your co-Darker?

I am seriously at loss what to write at this point. I can't even look for scum-tells since we have yet to resolve the great moral question: "What is to be scum?"

If this game contained the same amount of light and dark roles there'd be no point in playing, might as well roll a dice and let one side win. Mafia has always been a game of informed minority vs uninformed majority, there is no reason to treat this game differently on day 1.

What if Rish has taken it a step further? What if this is the game in which the majority is so uninformed THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY'RE MAJORITY?

Or else, what if Dark and Light are equal in numbers, with maybe a few Neutrals thown in as a buffer (I don't know if there are Neutrals in the Wheel Of TIme books)? In that case, the de facto majority would be the side that was first to beleivably claim that they are majority?

This game is deep, man.

Nah, it was only deep on day 1. Now that we have a dead dark aligned in the night we can say with certainty that dark is town. Like I said yesterday, (a) need to see a couple of deads before we know what's going on and (b) we shouldn't assume this isn't a regular mafia setup. This is the mafia forum after all. Now that we have the hold-your-breath competition out of the way we can play the game. Dark is town, light is scum. I think it's correct to assume the lights know each other (besides, none of them came forward strongly/claiming against Dakky so they must know they're scum) and the darks don't know each other, nor did they know they're town until today. Seems like a reasonable position if your role pm says you have to kill the good guys, anyway.

Is no one going to ask me why I asked specifically for Aages opinion on game thematics? Answer that and his posts make sense.

I already know


Concerning Storr, he's one of the few who hasn't actually made any remarks on the flavour. Not sure if that makes him town or scum but I'm happy to lean town for now since he at least tries to move the game forward.

[StorrZerg]

Eah first time I've put such little effort into a game. Not to mention I'm not really trying to control the game like I normally do. Dakky sorta lynched himself.

Madmitch is going to lynch himself as well.

@Aage I should be pretty notorious about not giving a flying f*ck about flavor and that scum hunting and talking about players is always much more helpful. Flavor talk is just an easy out for someone to not actually contribute