An EU Army to face Russia?

[saxitoxin]

Gen Sir Richard Barrons: UK Would be Obliterated in Any Kind of War

Gen Sir Richard Barrons, who stepped down in April, delivered a scathing assessment of the UK military in a 10-page private memorandum to the defence secretary, Sir Michael Fallon.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ike-russia

Highlights:

(a) the UK could only defend central London from air attack, the Russian Air Force would flatten Edinburgh, Glasgow, Birmingham, Manchester, Staines, etc. without any opposition
(b) the British Army would be outmanned and outgunned in any type of conventional war
(c) the British armed forces are only suitable for counter-terrorism operations, riot control, and disaster relief

This comes one year after RAF commander Gen Sir Michael Graydon said “I very much doubt whether the UK could sustain a shooting war against Russia" and said British air defenses would crumble like peanut brittle if faced with a saturation attack by the Russian Air Force.

[saxitoxin]

But with Denmark and Portugal chipping in, that'll definitely even the tables.

[waauw]

The UK Guardian, May 2016:

An EU army marching out to war under Brussels’ command is a fantasy shared by Eurosceptics and a small number of federalists. Europe will continue down the road of defence cooperation in a halting way, but an EU army is only for armchair generals.

The President of the EU, September 2016:

The European Union needs a military headquarters to work towards a common military force, the Commission president has told MEPs in Strasbourg.

Flushing Democracy down the toilet...
Seems like the EU Army is being designed to punish the disobedient EU members, so there wont be any other EXIT

If Europe is to rise again and reclaim its position as the the centre of civilization, it will need an army. It needs to be able to tell both the Russians and the Americans to go play their imperialist games somewhere else, and chart its own path without their sage advice. It needs to be able to reclaim the Bosporus and the Suez. And, more than anyone else, Europe needs a space-based anti-missile defense system.

Wrong... If Europe wants to rise again it needs to be united from the shores of the Atlantic to the Ural mountains(and beyond), and from the shores of Mediterranean to the Arctic. At least this was the idea of EU after the end of the cold war. And exactly that idea was driving EU forward.
There are 3 superpowers on European continent, Germany, Russia and UK. France is only power that wants to be a superpower, but in reality it isn't.
The problem for EU now is that UK stopped working for united Europe a decade ago and Russians were never part of it(although they liked the idea of united Europe), so the only superpower that was holding Europe on its shoulders was Germany. But Germany is not enough. With two superpowers EU will only float above water so it needs all 3.
Current situation in EU is as bad as it can be at the moment, Germany is trying to save what can be saved from current EU, UK is trying to leave EU with as much possible privileges and with as little as possible obligations, and Russia is building up its own union. If things dont change drastically in the next 5 years the moment for united Europe might be lost forever.
Who is benefiting from all this? only US. US worst nightmare is not super strong China but united Europe, and that's the main reason why they are trying to divide Europe as much as possible.

P.S. There wont be united Europe without Russia, EU cant afford having Russia as opponent.

1. Neither Germany nor UK are superpowers.
2. The french army is stronger than the german army.
3. The UK never worked for a united europe. They knew the EU was striving for greater integration and joined nonetheless, just a stupid decision on their part. They've been thwarting the rest of the EU since the day they joined.
4. I do agree the US is the only winner in all this. There is a reason why the US has been trying to stop many grand projects from the EU. They tried to sabotage the Euro-chinese transcontinental railway line, they tried to sabotage europe's own satellite system and they tried to sabotage the euro from competing with the USD. Same things with Russia but worse.

[mrswdk]

Source for the claims in point 4 please.

[Bernie Sanders]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

So, the Russians know attacking a NATO country is not in their own interests.

Nothing to see here, move on.

[mrswdk]

You mean the same US which declared that Assad using chemical weapons was an absolute 'red line' that would be met with US military action, and then when Assad went ahead and used chemical weapons anyway just blustered for a bit then went to go do something else?

[saxitoxin]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

[GoranZ]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

US didn't even declare war on Nazi Germany, but Hitler declared on them. If it wasn't for Hitler US would have never declared war on Germany

[saxitoxin]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

US didn't even declare war on Nazi Germany, but Hitler declared on them. If it wasn't for Hitler US would have never declared war on Germany

But the U.S. did send Britain a bunch of second-hand, out-of-date destroyers to "help."

It's like if my neighbor's house is on fire and he asks me to bring my garden hose over to help but instead I start cheerfully chucking my garbage into his backyard.

[Bernie Sanders]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

Clearly, you are into revisionist history.

[Bernie Sanders]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

US didn't even declare war on Nazi Germany, but Hitler declared on them. If it wasn't for Hitler US would have never declared war on Germany

Good boy GoranZ, finally a factual statement from you.

[Bernie Sanders]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

US didn't even declare war on Nazi Germany, but Hitler declared on them. If it wasn't for Hitler US would have never declared war on Germany

But the U.S. did send Britain a bunch of second-hand, out-of-date destroyers to "help."

It's like if my neighbor's house is on fire and he asks me to bring my garden hose over to help but instead I start cheerfully chucking my garbage into his backyard.

It was called The Lend/Lease program.
It was the most President Roosevelt could do for the Brits at the time.

Meanwhile, Russia aka Soviet Union, decided to invade Poland while Hitler invaded the other half. Yep, Stalin and Hitler were Bros at the time.

[GoranZ]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

US didn't even declare war on Nazi Germany, but Hitler declared on them. If it wasn't for Hitler US would have never declared war on Germany

But the U.S. did send Britain a bunch of second-hand, out-of-date destroyers to "help."

It's like if my neighbor's house is on fire and he asks me to bring my garden hose over to help but instead I start cheerfully chucking my garbage into his backyard.

Its the same even now... Take F-35 for example.

[saxitoxin]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

US didn't even declare war on Nazi Germany, but Hitler declared on them. If it wasn't for Hitler US would have never declared war on Germany

But the U.S. did send Britain a bunch of second-hand, out-of-date destroyers to "help."

It's like if my neighbor's house is on fire and he asks me to bring my garden hose over to help but instead I start cheerfully chucking my garbage into his backyard.

It was called The Lend/Lease program.

Actually Lend/Lease was something else. This was technically called "Destroyers of Bases" - where the U.S. forced Britain to take a bunch of worthless junk in exchange for vast quantities of British territory -

Britain had no choice but to accept the deal, but it was so much more advantageous to America than Britain that Churchill's aide John Colville compared it to the USSR's relationship with Finland. The destroyers were in reserve from the massive US World War I shipbuilding program, and many of the vessels required extensive overhaul due to the fact that many were not preserved properly when inactivated; one British admiral called them the "worst destroyers I had ever seen", and only 30 were in service by May 1941.Churchill also disliked the deal, but his advisers persuaded the prime minister to merely tell Roosevelt that: "We have so far only been able to bring a few of your fifty destroyers into action on account of the many defects which they naturally develop when exposed to Atlantic weather after having been laid up so long."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer ... #The_ships

[saxitoxin]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

US didn't even declare war on Nazi Germany, but Hitler declared on them. If it wasn't for Hitler US would have never declared war on Germany

But the U.S. did send Britain a bunch of second-hand, out-of-date destroyers to "help."

It's like if my neighbor's house is on fire and he asks me to bring my garden hose over to help but instead I start cheerfully chucking my garbage into his backyard.

Its the same even now... Take F-35 for example.

It's gonna be hilarious when they finally pull the plug on the F-35 and Britain is left with $10 billion in new aircraft carriers designed specifically to fly the F-35. Maybe they can convert them into hospital ships for the NHS.

[GoranZ]

Meanwhile, Russia aka Soviet Union, decided to invade Poland while Hitler invaded the other half. Yep, Stalin and Hitler were Bros at the time.

That was a territory lost by the Soviets in 1920's wars with Poland, and majority of the population was not Polish.

And Stalin was from Georgia, Georgia and US are big friends now

[saxitoxin]

Meanwhile, Russia aka Soviet Union, decided to invade Poland while Hitler invaded the other half. Yep, Stalin and Hitler were Bros at the time.

That was a territory lost by the Soviets in 1920's wars with Poland, and majority of the population was not Polish.

Yep, people like to ignore that. And they like to ignore the fact the Soviet Union offered to defend the Czech Republic from German invasion the year before but Britain and France got in the way.

[GoranZ]

Any attack on The United Kingdom, would invite an immediate retaliatory attack by the U.S.

Good point. When Germany attacked Britain, the U.S. promptly retaliated two years later.

So, clearly these generals know jack.

US didn't even declare war on Nazi Germany, but Hitler declared on them. If it wasn't for Hitler US would have never declared war on Germany

But the U.S. did send Britain a bunch of second-hand, out-of-date destroyers to "help."

It's like if my neighbor's house is on fire and he asks me to bring my garden hose over to help but instead I start cheerfully chucking my garbage into his backyard.

Its the same even now... Take F-35 for example.

It's gonna be hilarious when they finally pull the plug on the F-35 and Britain is left with $10 billion in new aircraft carriers designed specifically to fly the F-35. Maybe they can convert them into hospital ships for the NHS.

When that day comes the French will die from laughing. I would like to be Frenchmen for a week then, just to taste the fun of teasing the British

[Symmetry]

Meanwhile, Russia aka Soviet Union, decided to invade Poland while Hitler invaded the other half. Yep, Stalin and Hitler were Bros at the time.

That was a territory lost by the Soviets in 1920's wars with Poland, and majority of the population was not Polish.

And Stalin was from Georgia, Georgia and US are big friends now

Indeed, it's hilarious how the Russian government still thinks of the US as being mired in the Cold War, without looking inwardl and acknowledging that they're stuck in the era of the second World War.

Reminds me of the old joke-

London: GMT
Paris: + 1 hour
New York: -5 hours
Moscow: -30 years

Sadly, it seems like the joke underestimated the problem.

[GoranZ]

Meanwhile, Russia aka Soviet Union, decided to invade Poland while Hitler invaded the other half. Yep, Stalin and Hitler were Bros at the time.

That was a territory lost by the Soviets in 1920's wars with Poland, and majority of the population was not Polish.

And Stalin was from Georgia, Georgia and US are big friends now

Indeed, it's hilarious how the Russian government still thinks of the US as being mired in the Cold War, without looking inwardl and acknowledging that they're stuck in the era of the second World War.

Reminds me of the old joke-

London: GMT
Paris: + 1 hour
New York: -5 hours
Moscow: -30 years

Sadly, it seems like the joke underestimated the problem.

Symmetry and all Muslims like him: 8 June 632 A.D.

Nice joke

[Bernie Sanders]

Meanwhile, Russia aka Soviet Union, decided to invade Poland while Hitler invaded the other half. Yep, Stalin and Hitler were Bros at the time.

That was a territory lost by the Soviets in 1920's wars with Poland, and majority of the population was not Polish.

And Stalin was from Georgia, Georgia and US are big friends now

Indeed, it's hilarious how the Russian government still thinks of the US as being mired in the Cold War, without looking inwardl and acknowledging that they're stuck in the era of the second World War.

Reminds me of the old joke-

London: GMT
Paris: + 1 hour
New York: -5 hours
Moscow: -30 years

Sadly, it seems like the joke underestimated the problem.

Symmetry and all Muslims like him: 8 June 632 A.D.

Nice joke

The Putin apologist speaks.

[Symmetry]

Meanwhile, Russia aka Soviet Union, decided to invade Poland while Hitler invaded the other half. Yep, Stalin and Hitler were Bros at the time.

That was a territory lost by the Soviets in 1920's wars with Poland, and majority of the population was not Polish.

And Stalin was from Georgia, Georgia and US are big friends now

Indeed, it's hilarious how the Russian government still thinks of the US as being mired in the Cold War, without looking inwardl and acknowledging that they're stuck in the era of the second World War.

Reminds me of the old joke-

London: GMT
Paris: + 1 hour
New York: -5 hours
Moscow: -30 years

Sadly, it seems like the joke underestimated the problem.

Symmetry and all Muslims like him: 8 June 632 A.D.

Nice joke

The Putin apologist speaks.

He's got a few decades to think up a better one

[tzor]

Indeed, it's hilarious how the Russian government still thinks of the US as being mired in the Cold War, without looking inwardl and acknowledging that they're stuck in the era of the second World War.

No, they are not stuck in the era of the Second World War. They are not killing non Russians and starving them to death. (See Holodomor for more information.) I think a better time period is Imperial Russia (1721–1917) (See Russian Empire for more information.) Mind you, most of what I know from that period comes from the old "Wild Wild West" TV series ...

[GoranZ]

He's got a few decades to think up a better one

Said the Islamist who is stuck in 632 AD(you probably use other calendar, not the Christian one tho).
No worry soon your travel towards your God will get instant speed up, and your body will turn into a soap

Indeed, it's hilarious how the Russian government still thinks of the US as being mired in the Cold War, without looking inwardl and acknowledging that they're stuck in the era of the second World War.

No, they are not stuck in the era of the Second World War. They are not killing non Russians and starving them to death. (See Holodomor for more information.)

Holodomor was ordered by Joseph Stalin, and he was no Russian. Actually he originates from country that is US ally

I think a better time period is Imperial Russia (1721–1917) (See Russian Empire for more information.) Mind you, most of what I know from that period comes from the old "Wild Wild West" TV series ...

Yeah at the same time period United States were eradicating the Native Americans... We even have few maps with the names of the eradicated tribes, here on CC.
Nice job you must be proud of the accomplishment

[Bernie Sanders]

He's got a few decades to think up a better one

Said the Islamist who is stuck in 632 AD(you probably use other calendar, not the Christian one tho).
No worry soon your travel towards your God will get instant speed up, and your body will turn into a soap

Indeed, it's hilarious how the Russian government still thinks of the US as being mired in the Cold War, without looking inwardl and acknowledging that they're stuck in the era of the second World War.

No, they are not stuck in the era of the Second World War. They are not killing non Russians and starving them to death. (See Holodomor for more information.)

Holodomor was ordered by Joseph Stalin, and he was no Russian. Actually he originates from country that is US ally

I think a better time period is Imperial Russia (1721–1917) (See Russian Empire for more information.) Mind you, most of what I know from that period comes from the old "Wild Wild West" TV series ...

Yeah at the same time period United States were eradicating the Native Americans... We even have few maps with the names of the eradicated tribes, here on CC.
Nice job you must be proud of the accomplishment

Sometimes, when I read GoranZ posts, I like to bash my head up against a brick wall.