Human rights watch: France

[mrswdk]

France's 'temporary' state of emergency extended for a fourth time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... -state-of/

Liberty, equality, fraternity. Long live the Republic.

[mrswdk]

The French interior minister is seizing on this propaganda coup to start forming citizens militias:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36817435

[saxitoxin]

The French interior minister is seizing on this propaganda coup to start forming citizens militias:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36817435

I wonder if betiko will join? They wouldn't even need to give him a firearm, he could just start flinging excrement at the first sign of trouble.

[Bernie Sanders]

We got the two biggest Russian and Chinese apologists, joining forces against French society.

Well done idiots.

[mrswdk]

And now we have this forum's biggest Clinton apologist butting in to tell us how great France's martial law is for French liberty and freedom.

[mrswdk]

Recent events in France have predictably been seized upon as an opportunity for strongman Hollande to consolidate his strangehold over the nation's institutions.

Media blackouts, already an issue in Europe's favorite police state, look set to escalate as the nation's media rushes to ingratiate itself with Hollande's security apparatus.

How long before France gets the ball rolling on hate weeks?

[mrswdk]

Amnesty International condemns the French government's repressive crackdown under the state of emergency:

http://www.amnesty.org.au/news/comments/41214/

[mrswdk]

France's persecution of Muslims continues unabated. The authorities' actions are becoming increasingly brazen due to the international community's unwillingness to challenge them.

The mayor of Cannes in southern France has banned full-body swimsuits known as "burkinis" from the beach, citing public order concerns.

David Lisnard said they are a "symbol of Islamic extremism" and might spark scuffles, as France is the target of Islamist attacks.

Anyone caught flouting the new rule could face a fine of €38 (£33).

They will first be asked to change into another swimming costume or leave the beach.

Some animals truly are more equal than others in Hollande's France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37056742

[mrswdk]

We're now two months away from the 1 year anniversary of France putting it's 'temporary' state of emergency in place.

To remind you of what that means:
- The government free to raid French homes without a judicial warrant
- The government able to impose control orders on people who have not been charged with any offence
- Thousands of abusive raids carried out on Muslims homes, businesses and places of worship, with nothing of substance to show for them

Tonight, light a candle for the people of France.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/04/20/dis ... y-ever-end

[waauw]

More mrswdk monologue...

[Bernie Sanders]

More mrswdk monologue...

I get migraine headaches whenever he posts his nonsense.

Yes, the French need to be like the People's Republic of China, as they can shove their unwarranted freedoms and liberties down the throats of their citizens.

[DoomYoshi]

Here's the rub - we as Western nations have a military to protect our way of life, which includes right to bear rocket launchers, freedom of speech, etc.

If we take these liberties away from ourselves willingly, then the very thing we have a military for is gone. Therefore, we don't need a military, therefore, we don't need to be a nation. Therefore, we should just accept Sharia law.

Every breach of freedom by our own government is a type of logical fallacy (I can't think of the name).

It's like when Aristotle wrote that the planets have to move in perfect circles because that is the perfect shape. Then, Claudius Ptolomy used that reason to construct his Almagest, but it was continually modified by adding epicircles to make it more accurate.

So the formal argument is:
a)the planets must move in perfect circles
b)our calculations require imperfect circles
c)(during Galileo's time) they must be correct because of Aristotle
It's definitely non sequitor.

Our freedoms use the same logical fallacy.

a)our way of life is defined by our freedoms. We are willing to go to war to defend our freedoms.
b) we will take away our own freedoms and not go to war to defend them
c) our freedoms must be essential because we are willing to go to war for them.

[Bernie Sanders]

I feel another migraine coming....

[waauw]

Here's the rub - we as Western nations have a military to protect our way of life, which includes right to bear rocket launchers, freedom of speech, etc.

If we take these liberties away from ourselves willingly, then the very thing we have a military for is gone. Therefore, we don't need a military, therefore, we don't need to be a nation. Therefore, we should just accept Sharia law.

Every breach of freedom by our own government is a type of logical fallacy (I can't think of the name).

It's like when Aristotle wrote that the planets have to move in perfect circles because that is the perfect shape. Then, Claudius Ptolomy used that reason to construct his Almagest, but it was continually modified by adding epicircles to make it more accurate.

So the formal argument is:
a)the planets must move in perfect circles
b)our calculations require imperfect circles
c)(during Galileo's time) they must be correct because of Aristotle
It's definitely non sequitor.

Our freedoms use the same logical fallacy.

a)our way of life is defined by our freedoms. We are willing to go to war to defend our freedoms.
b) we will take away our own freedoms and not go to war to defend them
c) our freedoms must be essential because we are willing to go to war for them.

I agree with your train of thought, but have we really abandoned that many liberties? For instance during the Paris attacks last year, there were soldiers on the streets, near the Bataclan, but they weren't allowed to enter the building because that was police jurisdiction. Not so long ago 2 police officers in Belgium were stabbed by a guy who was going to get evicted from the country on the grounds of terrorism. The reason he wasn't evicted yet was that the judicial system allowed him to appeal the sentence. Etc.

It would seem to me like the west, even France and Belgium who are in a state of high alert, still hold high values towards freedom, especially when compared to many other nations. Things really haven't gotten THAT BAD yet. Regardless of what bullshit mrswdk has been telling, France and Belgium are not police states (yet).

[Symmetry]

Here's the rub - we as Western nations have a military to protect our way of life, which includes right to bear rocket launchers, freedom of speech, etc.

If we take these liberties away from ourselves willingly, then the very thing we have a military for is gone. Therefore, we don't need a military, therefore, we don't need to be a nation. Therefore, we should just accept Sharia law.

Every breach of freedom by our own government is a type of logical fallacy (I can't think of the name).

It's like when Aristotle wrote that the planets have to move in perfect circles because that is the perfect shape. Then, Claudius Ptolomy used that reason to construct his Almagest, but it was continually modified by adding epicircles to make it more accurate.

So the formal argument is:
a)the planets must move in perfect circles
b)our calculations require imperfect circles
c)(during Galileo's time) they must be correct because of Aristotle
It's definitely non sequitor.

Our freedoms use the same logical fallacy.

a)our way of life is defined by our freedoms. We are willing to go to war to defend our freedoms.
b) we will take away our own freedoms and not go to war to defend them
c) our freedoms must be essential because we are willing to go to war for them.

I agree with your train of thought, but have we really abandoned that many liberties? For instance during the Paris attacks last year, there were soldiers on the streets, near the Bataclan, but they weren't allowed to enter the building because that was police jurisdiction. Not so long ago 2 police officers in Belgium were stabbed by a guy who was going to get evicted from the country on the grounds of terrorism. The reason he wasn't evicted yet was that the judicial system allowed him to appeal the sentence. Etc.

It would seem to me like the west, even France and Belgium who are in a state of high alert, still hold high values towards freedom, especially when compared to many other nations. Things really haven't gotten THAT BAD yet. Regardless of what bullshit mrswdk has been telling, France and Belgium are not police states (yet).

Of course they aren't. You are absolutely correct. Nations that have been formed relatively recently don't always appreciate that western nations draw upon long legal traditions and establishments rarely get the fundamentals

Ex-pats pretending to be Orientalists tend to be the worst offenders.

[DoomYoshi]

Here's the rub - we as Western nations have a military to protect our way of life, which includes right to bear rocket launchers, freedom of speech, etc.

If we take these liberties away from ourselves willingly, then the very thing we have a military for is gone. Therefore, we don't need a military, therefore, we don't need to be a nation. Therefore, we should just accept Sharia law.

Every breach of freedom by our own government is a type of logical fallacy (I can't think of the name).

It's like when Aristotle wrote that the planets have to move in perfect circles because that is the perfect shape. Then, Claudius Ptolomy used that reason to construct his Almagest, but it was continually modified by adding epicircles to make it more accurate.

So the formal argument is:
a)the planets must move in perfect circles
b)our calculations require imperfect circles
c)(during Galileo's time) they must be correct because of Aristotle
It's definitely non sequitor.

Our freedoms use the same logical fallacy.

a)our way of life is defined by our freedoms. We are willing to go to war to defend our freedoms.
b) we will take away our own freedoms and not go to war to defend them
c) our freedoms must be essential because we are willing to go to war for them.

I agree with your train of thought, but have we really abandoned that many liberties? For instance during the Paris attacks last year, there were soldiers on the streets, near the Bataclan, but they weren't allowed to enter the building because that was police jurisdiction. Not so long ago 2 police officers in Belgium were stabbed by a guy who was going to get evicted from the country on the grounds of terrorism. The reason he wasn't evicted yet was that the judicial system allowed him to appeal the sentence. Etc.

It would seem to me like the west, even France and Belgium who are in a state of high alert, still hold high values towards freedom, especially when compared to many other nations. Things really haven't gotten THAT BAD yet. Regardless of what bullshit mrswdk has been telling, France and Belgium are not police states (yet).

On one principal liberty we are that bad. When the Boston Tea Party happened and the War of American Independence, they were fighting against outrageous tariffs. Now, the average American (and Canadian and Brit and Frenchie and Dutch etc.) is taxed 500% more than then. The entire purpose of our war was to prevent outlandish taxes, but that's what we pay every day in every way. The oil prices are down, and a few times I have fuelled up and paid more tax on the fuel than cost for the fuel. We have taxes upon taxes and then you have to pay accountants to calculate the taxes and then they have to tax for their services. Don't even get me started on the cheese tariff.

[waauw]

On one principal liberty we are that bad. When the Boston Tea Party happened and the War of American Independence, they were fighting against outrageous tariffs. Now, the average American (and Canadian and Brit and Frenchie and Dutch etc.) is taxed 500% more than then. The entire purpose of our war was to prevent outlandish taxes, but that's what we pay every day in every way. The oil prices are down, and a few times I have fuelled up and paid more tax on the fuel than cost for the fuel. We have taxes upon taxes and then you have to pay accountants to calculate the taxes and then they have to tax for their services. Don't even get me started on the cheese tariff.

You might want to consider who you're responding to. Mentioning the Boston Tea Party and the American independence might sway american opinions, but it doesn't even come close to stirring me, a non-american. I don't believe in neoliberalism, I much more prefer europe's and Canada's social liberalism; systems where individual liberties are merely traded off for collective liberties.

ps: I like taxes carbon fuels. It offers businesses incentives for developing green technologies.

[DoomYoshi]

The American army also fought for your freedoms too. Without them, you wouldn't have any liberalism left, of any kind.

[waauw]

The American army also fought for your freedoms too. Without them, you wouldn't have any liberalism left, of any kind.

Wasn't my point.

[mrswdk]

I agree with your train of thought, but have we really abandoned that many liberties? For instance during the Paris attacks last year, there were soldiers on the streets, near the Bataclan, but they weren't allowed to enter the building because that was police jurisdiction.

Interesting right to single out given that ever since those attacks the French government has, through its declaration of a state of emergency, granted its police the right to enter private property day and night without any prior authorization or warrant. So that cherished citizen's right of yours doesn't actually exist any more.

[Donelladan]

Well, if you were reading carefully mrswdk, you'd see what wauuw said isn't in contradiction with what you are saying.

wauuw said the soldierswere not allowed to enter the building because only the police can.

You are replying state of emergency give the right to the police to enter private property.

[notyou2]

More mrswdk monologue...

I get migraine headaches whenever he posts his nonsense.

Yes, the French need to be like the People's Republic of China, as they can shove their unwarranted freedoms and liberties down the throats of their citizens.

Kind of like how the US does it?

[mrswdk]

Well, if you were reading carefully mrswdk, you'd see what wauuw said isn't in contradiction with what you are saying.

wauuw said the soldierswere not allowed to enter the building because only the police can.

You are replying state of emergency give the right to the police to enter private property.

A distinction I'm sure will be of great comfort to the citizens cowering under their beds. 'Phew - at least the men with guns storming into my house are all police, no army!'

In any case the state of emergency grants these powers to 'the authorities', not 'the police' specifically. The army are now equally free to storm into innocent Muslims's houses and crack their skulls, they just happen to leave it to the police because that is the job of the police.

So, try again, apologist.

[Bernie Sanders]

Well, if you were reading carefully mrswdk, you'd see what wauuw said isn't in contradiction with what you are saying.

wauuw said the soldierswere not allowed to enter the building because only the police can.

You are replying state of emergency give the right to the police to enter private property.

A distinction I'm sure will be of great comfort to the citizens cowering under their beds. 'Phew - at least the men with guns storming into my house are all police, no army!'

In any case the state of emergency grants these powers to 'the authorities', not 'the police' specifically. The army are now equally free to storm into innocent Muslims's houses and crack their skulls, they just happen to leave it to the police because that is the job of the police.

So, try again, apologist.

Look who's calling who an apologist. You master that skill, as you praise the tyrants of Russia and China.

[notyou2]

Well, if you were reading carefully mrswdk, you'd see what wauuw said isn't in contradiction with what you are saying.

wauuw said the soldierswere not allowed to enter the building because only the police can.

You are replying state of emergency give the right to the police to enter private property.

A distinction I'm sure will be of great comfort to the citizens cowering under their beds. 'Phew - at least the men with guns storming into my house are all police, no army!'

In any case the state of emergency grants these powers to 'the authorities', not 'the police' specifically. The army are now equally free to storm into innocent Muslims's houses and crack their skulls, they just happen to leave it to the police because that is the job of the police.

So, try again, apologist.

Very similar to how the Uighurs are treated?