For All You European Brahs

[william18]

As a North American, I'm not familiar with the political climate of the non-political class or the social atmosphere in the EU. I have recently been hearing about the rise of extreme right wing politics in Austria. So I got a few questions for you Europeans that I'm wondering.

Are people in Europe becoming less left than they are notoriously known for? How bad is the migrant/Muslim situation? I see lots of snippets of extremely confrontational Muslims in the UK, and lots of articles about migrants causing mayhem in Germany/Sweden. Not sure if this is just cherry picking. Are people retaliating to these current events? Can you still wear a hijab but not say Merry Christmas?

[saxitoxin]

How bad is the migrant/Muslim situation?

I hear it's almost as bad as the Jewish situation was in the 1930s. But Europe fixed that problem and can handle the Muslim one, too.

[william18]

How bad is the migrant/Muslim situation?

I hear it's almost as bad as the Jewish situation was in the 1930s. But Europe fixed that problem and can handle the Muslim one, too.

Lol what?

[The asylum]

As a North American, I'm not familiar with the political climate of the non-political class or the social atmosphere in the EU. I have recently been hearing about the rise of extreme right wing politics in Austria. So I got a few questions for you Europeans that I'm wondering.

Are people in Europe becoming less left than they are notoriously known for? How bad is the migrant/Muslim situation? I see lots of snippets of extremely confrontational Muslims in the UK, and lots of articles about migrants causing mayhem in Germany/Sweden. Not sure if this is just cherry picking. Are people retaliating to these current events? Can you still wear a hijab but not say Merry Christmas?

There's definitely a problem. Paris is in a massive state of unrest but you won't see this on any network news station.

Mass sexual assaults all over Europe on nye but they tried to hide that also.

The EU is an unelected socialist dictatorship with its nwo agenda but the people are starting to wake up. Britain I feel will lead the way for the breakdown of the EU in our referendum on the 23rd June. However, they will try to fix it by giving all citizens of other EU countries currently living in the UK the right to vote or something like that as they feel their power slipping.

[mrswdk]

There is no 'Muslim situation', except in the minds of people like asylum (who lives in an almost exclusively white provincial town and has 0 idea what he is talking about, just like all the other morons who vote for those far right parties).

I live in an area of London that is about 30% Muslim and no one has tried to execute me for being an infidel yet.

[saxitoxin]

Mass sexual assaults all over Europe on nye but they tried to hide that also.

Exactly. It's basically like the time the Jews were jacking-up the prices for basic goods all over Berlin and fixing the interest rates but Chancellor Müller tried to hide it and blame it on the Depression.

Well Europeans weren't fooled then and they won't be fooled now.

[betiko]

As a North American, I'm not familiar with the political climate of the non-political class or the social atmosphere in the EU. I have recently been hearing about the rise of extreme right wing politics in Austria. So I got a few questions for you Europeans that I'm wondering.

Are people in Europe becoming less left than they are notoriously known for? How bad is the migrant/Muslim situation? I see lots of snippets of extremely confrontational Muslims in the UK, and lots of articles about migrants causing mayhem in Germany/Sweden. Not sure if this is just cherry picking. Are people retaliating to these current events? Can you still wear a hijab but not say Merry Christmas?

austria was won by the ecological party... so no it's not like people are less left. but nationalism is on the rise for sure all across europe... so is extreme left.

[mrswdk]

As a North American, I'm not familiar with the political climate of the non-political class or the social atmosphere in the EU. I have recently been hearing about the rise of extreme right wing politics in Austria. So I got a few questions for you Europeans that I'm wondering.

Are people in Europe becoming less left than they are notoriously known for? How bad is the migrant/Muslim situation? I see lots of snippets of extremely confrontational Muslims in the UK, and lots of articles about migrants causing mayhem in Germany/Sweden. Not sure if this is just cherry picking. Are people retaliating to these current events? Can you still wear a hijab but not say Merry Christmas?

austria was won by the ecological party... so no it's not like people are less left. but nationalism is on the rise for sure all across europe... so is extreme left.

That far right guy comfortably won the first round of voting and in the second round face off between him and the green guy he only lost out by like 1-2 percentage points.

[waauw]

From what I can see it's not just the 'far right' that's gaining ground, but the 'far left' as well. Europe is polarizing in imo. The far-left has gotten more vocal and popular due to austerity measures, whilst the far right gained points due to anti-EU and anti-immigrant sentiments. Note however that I'm from Belgium and that just like France we're seeing mass protests everywhere and we've recently experienced terrorist attacks. In the south of our country we even have a rising communist party.

As for the muslim issue, there is definitely some concern there. We hear constant news of women getting sexually assaulted, people being arrested on the grounds of terrorism, migrants fighting amongst eachother for religious reasons, etc. I'm not saying the muslims now are any worse than they were 20 years ago, but the has definitely been an increase in press attention to the subject.

What americans need to realize is that in europe muslims crowd our prisons like blacks do in the US, muslims are the majority immigrants in europe like mexicans in the US, and the fact that there definitely has been a rise in muslim extremism makes that europeans are absolutely discriminating against them A LOT. If you're a muslim in europe, you'll have a much harder time finding a decent job than if you were of any other ethnicity.

[william18]

There is no 'Muslim situation', except in the minds of people like asylum (who lives in an almost exclusively white provincial town and has 0 idea what he is talking about, just like all the other morons who vote for those far right parties).

I live in an area of London that is about 30% Muslim and no one has tried to execute me for being an infidel yet.

So as long as they aren't executing civilians on the streets, they're all right in your books?

[waauw]

There is no 'Muslim situation', except in the minds of people like asylum (who lives in an almost exclusively white provincial town and has 0 idea what he is talking about, just like all the other morons who vote for those far right parties).

I live in an area of London that is about 30% Muslim and no one has tried to execute me for being an infidel yet.

So as long as they aren't executing civilians on the streets, they're all right in your books?

Not to mention how big London is. I can imagine there are big differences between the different neighbourhoods.

[mrswdk]

@waauw Why are you talking about 'Europe' as if it's one homogeneous place, like you're an American?

While it's true that in some fascist states such as France and Belgium minorities (including Muslims) are persecuted to an obscene degree by the authorities, in Europe's freer societies (such as the UK and Germany) this happens much, much less.

[mrswdk]

There is no 'Muslim situation', except in the minds of people like asylum (who lives in an almost exclusively white provincial town and has 0 idea what he is talking about, just like all the other morons who vote for those far right parties).

I live in an area of London that is about 30% Muslim and no one has tried to execute me for being an infidel yet.

So as long as they aren't executing civilians on the streets, they're all right in your books?

Sorry, I didn't realize you had Asperger's.

I live in an area of London that is about 30% Muslim, and neither I nor either of my non-Muslim housemates have suffered at the hands of Muslims while out and about conducting our daily business.

[waauw]

@waauw Why are you talking about 'Europe' as if it's one homogeneous place, like you're an American?

While it's true that in some fascist states such as France and Belgium minorities (including Muslims) are persecuted to an obscene degree by the authorities, in Europe's freer societies (such as the UK and Germany) this happens much, much less.

Did you seriously just call Belgium and France fascist states? You're fucking mad. Seriously, do you even know anything about the Belgian political system?

And fyi, try reading some german newspapers before you tell me more bullshit. Germany has a lot of racism and muslim problems as well.

[mrswdk]

@waauw Why are you talking about 'Europe' as if it's one homogeneous place, like you're an American?

While it's true that in some fascist states such as France and Belgium minorities (including Muslims) are persecuted to an obscene degree by the authorities, in Europe's freer societies (such as the UK and Germany) this happens much, much less.

Did you seriously just call Belgium and France fascist states? You're fucking mad. Seriously, do you even know anything about the Belgian political system?

Admittedly, the last time we talked about this we only identified France as being authoritarian, but I just assumed the same applies to Belgium given how closely your attitude and insights into the Belgian state match the information we discussed when talking about France.

And fyi, try reading some german newspapers before you tell me more bullshit. Germany has a lot of racism and muslim problems as well.

My mistake. I tend to prefer looking at national statistics and in-depth qual/quant research when trying to identify national trends and their causes, but as you point out I would be able to learn much more by just reading a few anecdotes written in newspapers by hack journalists. I will ditch the research and replace it with opinion columns at once!

[waauw]

@waauw Why are you talking about 'Europe' as if it's one homogeneous place, like you're an American?

While it's true that in some fascist states such as France and Belgium minorities (including Muslims) are persecuted to an obscene degree by the authorities, in Europe's freer societies (such as the UK and Germany) this happens much, much less.

Did you seriously just call Belgium and France fascist states? You're fucking mad. Seriously, do you even know anything about the Belgian political system?

Admittedly, the last time we talked about this we only identified France as being authoritarian, but I just assumed the same applies to Belgium given how closely your attitude and insights into the Belgian state match the information we discussed when talking about France.

The whole reason that Belgium is chosen by terrorists as a hide-out country is because we are so lax on the anti-terrorism spectrum. People can hang ISIS flags here and get away with it. If anything the problem in Belgium is a lack of police authority.

And fyi, try reading some german newspapers before you tell me more bullshit. Germany has a lot of racism and muslim problems as well.

My mistake. I tend to prefer looking at national statistics and in-depth qual/quant research to build a picture of what is happening in a country, but as you point out I would be able to learn much more (and much more quickly) by just reading a few anecdotes written in newspapers by hack journalists. I will ditch the research and replace it with opinion columns at once!

http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/rassismus-in-sachsen-menschenverachtung-ist-normal-geworden/13529830.html
„Menschenverachtung ist normal geworden“

Beleidigt, bespuckt, bedroht: Wer in Dresden anders als Einheimische aussieht, wird oft nicht nur schräg angeschaut. Seit Pegida auf der Straße ist, zeigt Alltagsrassismus hemmungslos seine hässliche Fratze.

In Dresden scheint die Angst vor Fremden besonders groß. Selbst wenn sie in so zierlicher Gestalt daherkommen wie Ana aus Indonesien. Ihren ersten Tag in der sächsischen Landeshauptstadt wird sie nie vergessen. Als die Studentin der Erziehungswissenschaften im Herbst 2011 das erste Mal zur Uni wollte und auf den Bus wartete, zeigte ein junges Mädchen mit dem Finger auf sie und machte abfällige Bemerkungen. Für Ana brach eine Welt zusammen: „Ich war erschrocken und musste weinen. Ich dachte, in Deutschland sind die Leute gebildet. Ich hatte doch nur auf den Bus gewartet.“

Seither hat Ana noch andere Demütigungen erdulden müssen. Als Muslima ist sie für Ausländerfeinde gut erkennbar. „Muslim-Schwein“ oder „Scheiß Muslim“ sind Ausdrücke, die sie immer wieder zu hören bekommt. Einmal habe ein etwa elfjähriger Junge sie gefragt, ob sie Auschwitz kenne. „Als ich das bejahte, sagte er nur: „Du wirst dort enden.““

Vor allem wenn IS-Terroristen wieder für Schlagzeilen sorgten, werde auf sie geachtet. Ana hat dann das Gefühl, wie eine Täterin behandelt zu werden. In einer Straßenbahn habe ihr ein Junge seinen Finger wie eine Pistole an den Kopf gehalten. „Ein Mann hat das gesehen, gesagt hat er nichts“, erzählt sie.

Dass die Mehrheit schweigt und Einzelne gewähren lässt, hat auch Nathalie aus Kamerun schon zu Beginn ihrer Dresdner Zeit erfahren. Gemeinsam mit einer Freundin saß sie im Frühjahr 2011 in einer Straßenbahn, als ein Mann ihr ins Gesicht schaute und sie anspuckte. „Es war 11 Uhr am Vormittag, die Bahn war voll, es war Frühling und draußen sehr schön“, sagt die 25-Jährige, die an der Technischen Universität Elektrotechnik studiert und in Deutschland promovieren will – „aber nicht in Dresden“. Mit der Stadt habe sie abgeschlossen, zu viel sei passiert in letzten Jahren.

[mrswdk]

The whole reason that Belgium is chosen by terrorists as a hide-out country is because we are so lax on the anti-terrorism spectrum. People can hang ISIS flags here and get away with it. If anything the problem in Belgium is a lack of police authority.

It's because Belgian security services are woefully un-coordinated, I'd have thought. Isn't the Belgian intelligence agency split into five different regions, each of which are fairly incapable of communicating with the others effectively?

Hanging an ISIS flag is also legal in the UK, fyi.

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Not all of us speak German. What's the gist of the article (and why should I accept that article as being evidence of that 'Germany has a lot of racism and muslim problems as well')?

[thegreekdog]

I tend to prefer looking at national statistics and in-depth qual/quant research to build a picture of what is happening in a country, but as you point out I would be able to learn much more (and much more quickly) by just reading a few anecdotes written in newspapers by hack journalists.

Ahem... or anecdotes...

I live in an area of London that is about 30% Muslim and no one has tried to execute me for being an infidel yet.

In the interest of full disclosure, in this thread I will be taking the anti-mrswdk position. Let's rock and roll!

In the interest of full disclosure, I know nothing about the situation in Europe vis-a-vis migrants (other than that my homeland is doing an admirable job helping people get away from abuse in various countries in and around the Middle East).

[mrswdk]

I tend to prefer looking at national statistics and in-depth qual/quant research to build a picture of what is happening in a country, but as you point out I would be able to learn much more (and much more quickly) by just reading a few anecdotes written in newspapers by hack journalists.

Ahem... or anecdotes...

I live in an area of London that is about 30% Muslim and no one has tried to execute me for being an infidel yet.

Why you!

In my defense, that was a response to this:

I see lots of snippets of extremely confrontational Muslims in the UK... Not sure if this is just cherry picking

Given that me, friends and colleagues of mine have lived in the British cities with the largest Muslim populations for years and never seen or even heard of any of the kind of nonsense OP was talking about seeing in the news, it's probably safe to say that the pictures of Muslims with placards saying 'slaughter all soldiers' are cherry picked, and not evidence of a national pandemic. If it was that significant, we'd have noticed something by now.

I could have elaborated and said that a) some of the American news reports about Muslims in Europe that I've seen are full of straight up lies and b) coverage of 'extremist protests' in the UK has always obscured the fact that those protests are attended by a minuscule number of people. All the evidence is that these extremists are very much a tiny minority, over-hyped by the media. I just couldn't be bothered to say that because this debate is so 2015 and therefore didn't seem worth investing in.

In the interest of full disclosure, in this thread I will be taking the anti-mrswdk position. Let's rock and roll!

Bring it, nigga.

[thegreekdog]

Let's start with statistics on one country; mrs's favorite - France

In the 2012 French presidential election, the winning candidate was from the Socialist Party and Radical Party of the Left, who won 28.63% of the vote in the first round. This is a center-left party.

The second place finisher was the candidate from the Union for a Popular Movement with 27.18% of the vote in the first round. This is a center-right party.

Note, I'm using the proper, Merican, spelling of "center."

The third place party in the first round was the National Front with 17.9% of the vote in the first round. This is a social conservative, nationalist party.

The fourth place party in the first round was the Left Front with 11.10% of the vote in the first round. This is basically the leftist party.

So, in a first round national election, the nationalist, conservative party won 17.9% of the popular vote. In contrast, the antithetical party won 11.1% of the popular vote.

What does this mean? To me this means there is a large group of people in France (6.4 million of 35.9 million voters) who voted as far right as possible. Also keep in mind this was in 2012... those people are probably angrier now and there are probably more of them.

Mrs - go!

[The asylum]

The problem is the media is ran by masochistic homosexuals working for the big corporations intent on globalisation. So it's not in their interests to let you know about the failings of sell out governments and their socialist policies. Much like the labour party tried to hide the sexual assaults of over 1200 vulnerable young girls as young as 11, whom were under a local labour authorities care. If any of you think you are getting the truth out of the mainstream media then you seriously need to get out and about more. you ain't going to learn shit by reading some of the idiots on here that just repeat what the media want you to believe.

[The asylum]

Also, Islamic attack in a tube station in London whereby the perpetrator was trying to copy the killing of Lee Rigby. Did any of you hear about that or hear it described as a terrorist attack? Well the Muslim was in court today

[mrswdk]

Let's start with statistics on one country; mrs's favorite - France

In the 2012 French presidential election, the winning candidate was from the Socialist Party and Radical Party of the Left, who won 28.63% of the vote in the first round. This is a center-left party.

The second place finisher was the candidate from the Union for a Popular Movement with 27.18% of the vote in the first round. This is a center-right party.

Note, I'm using the proper, Merican, spelling of "center."

The third place party in the first round was the National Front with 17.9% of the vote in the first round. This is a social conservative, nationalist party.

The fourth place party in the first round was the Left Front with 11.10% of the vote in the first round. This is basically the leftist party.

So, in a first round national election, the nationalist, conservative party won 17.9% of the popular vote. In contrast, the antithetical party won 11.1% of the popular vote.

What does this mean? To me this means there is a large group of people in France (6.4 million of 35.9 million voters) who voted as far right as possible. Also keep in mind this was in 2012... those people are probably angrier now and there are probably more of them.

Mrs - go!

Yup, the anti-establishment anger is just as strong in Europe as it is in America. Not disagreeing with you there.

[mrswdk]

Also, Islamic attack in a tube station in London whereby the perpetrator was trying to copy the killing of Lee Rigby. Did any of you hear about that or hear it described as a terrorist attack? Well the Muslim was in court today

You mean the crazy guy whose family were trying to get him sectioned, and after they failed he went to a subway station and swung a knife at a few people? Yeah, everyone heard about that one.

[thegreekdog]

Let's start with statistics on one country; mrs's favorite - France

In the 2012 French presidential election, the winning candidate was from the Socialist Party and Radical Party of the Left, who won 28.63% of the vote in the first round. This is a center-left party.

The second place finisher was the candidate from the Union for a Popular Movement with 27.18% of the vote in the first round. This is a center-right party.

Note, I'm using the proper, Merican, spelling of "center."

The third place party in the first round was the National Front with 17.9% of the vote in the first round. This is a social conservative, nationalist party.

The fourth place party in the first round was the Left Front with 11.10% of the vote in the first round. This is basically the leftist party.

So, in a first round national election, the nationalist, conservative party won 17.9% of the popular vote. In contrast, the antithetical party won 11.1% of the popular vote.

What does this mean? To me this means there is a large group of people in France (6.4 million of 35.9 million voters) who voted as far right as possible. Also keep in mind this was in 2012... those people are probably angrier now and there are probably more of them.

Mrs - go!

Yup, the anti-establishment anger is just as strong in Europe as it is in America. Not disagreeing with you there.

What point are we arguing about again?