Mayor of London borrows policies from the great Chairman

[Symmetry]

He's pro-Brexit. I don't expect any better of him.

I think the main point was that it wasn't him who asked for the gag, and it wasn't really a gag in the first place. Just a thing where a bunch of people working for the mayor are basically supposed to be politically neutral- civil servants essentially.

It's kind of a way to avoid a politicised bureaucracy.

The bureaucracy is supposed to support government policy.

And in this case there is no set policy, as there's a referendum upcoming. The cabinet is split, as gov't policy is basically that it should be a matter of conscience. If you see the problem there, you see the problem above.

The government's official position is that the UK should remain inside the EU, but Cabinet ministers have been permitted to campaign to leave if they want to.

Civil servants have to be neutral.

The civil service's duty is to support government policy. That's why some senior civil servant was recently telling people not to let Ian Duncan-Smith and co. see various documents relating to negotiations with the EU - because IDS wants to use that info to campaign against government policy, and so as civil servants it's part of their job to not support him in doing that.

Dude, I can only say that there isn't a government policy on this again beyond that government ministers can make their own choice, hence the confusion. IDS is a cabinet minister. He's part of the government by any sane means.

This is why the civil servants are getting messed up.

[Symmetry]

I'm not sure how to translate this for our American cousins, but maybe if the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense were on either side of a discussion, publically, and that was ok'd by the Prez, the staffers in Washington would be horribly confused.

Analogies are tough.

[mrswdk]

The government's official position is that the UK should remain inside the EU, but Cabinet ministers have been permitted to campaign to leave if they want to.

Civil servants have to be neutral.

The civil service's duty is to support government policy. That's why some senior civil servant was recently telling people not to let Ian Duncan-Smith and co. see various documents relating to negotiations with the EU - because IDS wants to use that info to campaign against government policy, and so as civil servants it's part of their job to not support him in doing that.

Dude, I can only say that there isn't a government policy on this again beyond that government ministers can make their own choice, hence the confusion. IDS is a cabinet minister. He's part of the government by any sane means.

This is why the civil servants are getting messed up.

Pro-Brexit ministers will not have access to government documents or civil service assistance to help them make their case for leaving the European Union.

New guidance issued to civil servants and special advisers today states that “official departmental papers” cannot be used to argue against the official government position that Britain should Remain in the EU.

The document, published by Cabinet Secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood, says: “It will not be appropriate or permissible for the Civil Service to support Ministers who oppose the Government’s official position by providing briefing or speech material on this matter."

https://www.politicshome.com/party-poli ... ent-papers

Sounds like someone forgot to tell the government that Symmetry thinks it doesn't have a policy on Brexit.

[Symmetry]

The government's official position is that the UK should remain inside the EU, but Cabinet ministers have been permitted to campaign to leave if they want to.

Civil servants have to be neutral.

The civil service's duty is to support government policy. That's why some senior civil servant was recently telling people not to let Ian Duncan-Smith and co. see various documents relating to negotiations with the EU - because IDS wants to use that info to campaign against government policy, and so as civil servants it's part of their job to not support him in doing that.

Dude, I can only say that there isn't a government policy on this again beyond that government ministers can make their own choice, hence the confusion. IDS is a cabinet minister. He's part of the government by any sane means.

This is why the civil servants are getting messed up.

Pro-Brexit ministers will not have access to government documents or civil service assistance to help them make their case for leaving the European Union.

New guidance issued to civil servants and special advisers today states that “official departmental papers” cannot be used to argue against the official government position that Britain should Remain in the EU.

The document, published by Cabinet Secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood, says: “It will not be appropriate or permissible for the Civil Service to support Ministers who oppose the Government’s official position by providing briefing or speech material on this matter."

https://www.politicshome.com/party-poli ... ent-papers

Sounds like someone forgot to tell the government that Symmetry thinks it doesn't have a policy on Brexit.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/01/pro-brexit-ministers-will-have-access-to-papers-says-cabinet-secretary

This is getting tiresome.

[mrswdk]

From that article you just posted:

“The civil service is not going to be supporting ministers who are against the government’s position to make that case,” he told the Commons public administration and constitutional affairs select committee.

Continue being obstinate if you want, but all the information out there says that the UK Government has an official position on the EU referendum, and that it is the civil service's duty to support that position.

[Symmetry]

From that article you just posted:

“The civil service is not going to be supporting ministers who are against the government’s position to make that case,” he told the Commons public administration and constitutional affairs select committee.

Continue being obstinate if you want, but all the information out there says that the UK Government has an official position on the EU referendum, and that it is the civil service's duty to support that position.

Who constitutes the British Government, then?

It's not a matter of obstinancy on my part, it's a matter of obscurity on all parts.

[mrswdk]

This is why it is important for governments to show a unified front, as the CCP do. One small show of public defiance from a few British ministers and Symmetry is suddenly no longer to comprehend the term 'government' as anything other than an abstract hypothetical question.

[riskllama]

hmmm, there can only be one troll queen. who will win this epic battle??? bets?

[Symmetry]

This is why it is important for governments to show a unified front, as the CCP do. One small show of public defiance from a few British ministers and Symmetry is suddenly no longer to comprehend the term 'government' as anything other than an abstract hypothetical question.

Stake your terms mate, I've already explained why it's a mess. Can you answer who you think the government is without your argument falling apart? And, hey, getting complicated?

[mrswdk]

According to Google/Wiki the UK Government is the Prime Minister and his/her various ministers (e.g. Secretary of State for Education).

Official government policy is that the UK should stay in the EU. However, a small number of ministers want the UK to leave and have been given permission to openly campaign against the government in a personal capacity if they wish too.

The civil service's duty is to support government policy, which in this example means the civil service is duty-bound to support the position of stay. They have therefore been told that they are not allowed to supply pro-Brexit ministers with certain bits of information that those ministers would then use to help them campaign in favor of leaving the EU.

Is anything still confusing you?

[Symmetry]

According to Google/Wiki the UK Government is the Prime Minister and his/her various ministers (e.g. Secretary of State for Education).

So you never had your own concept of what the UK gov't is? Let alone what constitutes policy?

[Symmetry]

Were you even aware that the government, as you had to look up on "google/wiki", was split?

[mrswdk]

I clearly was aware, given that I already said so earlier in this thread.

You clearly don't want a sensible conversation so I'm done here.

[mrswdk]

Back to the topic at hand: the man who may well be the UK's next prime minister admires Chairman Mao ^0^ people of the world unit 世界人民团结！

[Symmetry]

I clearly was aware, given that I already said so earlier in this thread.

You clearly don't want a sensible conversation so I'm done here.

I think you burned your bridges a while ago.

[riskllama]

ladies and gentlemen, we have a new champion : symmetry wins via submission.
congrats, sym. very well done.

[mrswdk]

I mean, I wrote in several posts that government ministers are divided over the EU referendum and he replies with 'are you even aware that the government is split?'. There's just no point trying to have a sensible conversation with the product of an English state school education.

[riskllama]

...and the award for graciousness in defeat goes to...wait for it(having a little trouble with the envelope )...someone other than mrswdk!!!

[waauw]

I mean, I wrote in several posts that government ministers are divided over the EU referendum and he replies with 'are you even aware that the government is split?'. There's just no point trying to have a sensible conversation with the product of an English state school education.

Ehm, why does Shanghai count seperate? Desperate attempt to keep Japan out of the top 3?

[rishaed]

I mean, I wrote in several posts that government ministers are divided over the EU referendum and he replies with 'are you even aware that the government is split?'. There's just no point trying to have a sensible conversation with the product of an English state school education.

They spelled Math wrong .... Why make it plural

[Symmetry]

I mean, I wrote in several posts that government ministers are divided over the EU referendum and he replies with 'are you even aware that the government is split?'. There's just no point trying to have a sensible conversation with the product of an English state school education.

They spelled Math wrong .... Why make it plural

It's a shortened version of mathematics, and there are many types of mathematics. Pure maths, statistics, and mechanics were the three main modules when I studied at A-Level.

[mrswdk]

And of course, I'm forgetting that the influence of Mao runs deeper in British politics than just the aptly named mayor, BJ.

Indeed, the teachings of the honorable Chairman have even been read during meetings of the British central congress!

Autumn Statement 2015: John McDonnell Reads From Chairman Mao's Little Red Book In The Commons

"Let's quote from Mao," John McDonnell unexpectedly said from the Commons Despatch Box on Wednesday afternoon.

Quoting from the book, McDonnell read: "We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are. We must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously. We must not pretend to know when we do not know."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11 ... 46146.html

[rishaed]

And of course, I'm forgetting that the influence of Mao runs deeper in British politics than just the aptly named mayor, BJ.

Indeed, the teachings of the honorable Chairman have even been read during meetings of the British central congress!

Autumn Statement 2015: John McDonnell Reads From Chairman Mao's Little Red Book In The Commons

"Let's quote from Mao," John McDonnell unexpectedly said from the Commons Despatch Box on Wednesday afternoon.

Quoting from the book, McDonnell read: "We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are. We must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously. We must not pretend to know when we do not know."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11 ... 46146.html

I think this is a clear cut case of do as i say and not as i do.