It was in the time of Charlemagne (742-814) that the French philosopher Arnaud introduced the mystical teachings into France, and from there they spread to much of Western Europe. Throughout medieval Europe mystical knowledge was often necessarily couched in symbolism or disguised and hidden in the love songs of Troubadours, the formularies of Alchemists, the symbolical system known as the Qabala, and the rituals of Orders of Knighthood.
While much of medieval Europe lay in darkness, the highly advanced Arab civilization preserved a large body of the mystical teachings through texts translated directly from the great libraries of the ancient world, such as Egyptās Alexandria Library. Philosophy, medicine, mathematics, and alchemy were all important subjects preserved in these libraries and later transmitted to Europe by way of the Arabs.
Crossing the Atlantic the late seventeenth century, following a plan originally proposed by Francis Bacon in The New Atlantis, a colony of Rosicrucian leaders was organized to establish the Rosicrucian arts and sciences in America. In 1694 Rosicrucian settlers made the perilous journey across the Atlantic Ocean in a specially chartered vessel, the Sarah Maria, under the leadership of Johannes Kelpius, master of a Rosicrucian Lodge in Europe. Landing in Philadelphia, the colonists established their first settlement and later moved further west in Pennsylvania to Ephrata. These Rosicrucian communities made valuable contributions to the newly emerging American culture in the fields of printing, philosophy, the sciences and arts. Later such eminent Americans as Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and Thomas Paine were intimately connected with the Rosicrucian community. In fact, many Rosicrucians played an important role in the great alchemical and social process leading to the founding of a new nation.
I was watching the new show Lucifer last night and found it odd that his full name was Lucifer Morning Star. If you understand in Freemasonry that Lucifer is the light bearer. Lucifer is also associated with the planet Venus. Venus is the brightest star in the morning. I know Venus is not actually a star but was considered one in ancient times. Here are some excerpts from some of the greatest writers in Masonry.
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff;
"The day has come when Fellow Craftsman must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion , which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." [Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree, K.T., The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff
From Wikipedia
Lucifer (/ĖluĖsÉŖfÉr/;[1][2][3] loo-sif-Ér) is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word ×Öµ××Öµ× in Isaiah 14:12. This word, transliterated hĆŖlĆŖl[4] or heylel,[5] occurs only once in the Hebrew Bible[4] and according to the KJV based Strong's Concordance means "shining one, light bearer".[5] The Septuagint renders ×Öµ××Öµ× in Greek as į¼ĻĻĻĻĻĪæĻ[6][7][8][9][10] (heÅsphoros),[11][12][13] a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.[14]
The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate,[15] which translates ×Öµ××Öµ× as lucifer,[16][17] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[18]
Later Christian tradition came to use the Latin word for "morning star", lucifer, as a proper name ("Lucifer") for the devil; as he was before his fall.[19] As a result, "'Lucifer' has become a by-word for Satan/the Devil in the church and in popular literature",[15] as in Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost.[13] However, the Latin word never came to be used almost exclusively, as in English, in this way, and was applied to others also, including Jesus.[20] The image of a morning star fallen from the sky is generally believed among scholars to have a parallel in Canaanite mythology.[21]
warmonger1981 wrote:Why is it that this country is supposed to be separation of church and state yet there is the goddess of Columbia on top of national capital? Is it a coincidence she faces east? Or why is it that the George Washington Monument is an Egyptian obelisk. Is it a coincidence that the cap stone is 33lb with a 9" aluminum tip. Which looks like a Ben Ben Stone? At the tip of the aluminum tip is inscribed "laus deo" or "praise be to God" facing east. Upon those words the sun rises but never sets. If you know the symbolism of an obelisk you may already know.
Symmetry wrote:For a secret society, it kind of seems like there's a lot of people writing books about them.
The definition of "secret society" can be rather interesting at times. Technically speaking a "secret society" can be right out in the open. But you only see the outside; the inside is "secret."
Frankly I am not a fan of the notions of the "conspiracy" of the Masons. Quite the opposite. The European Age of Enlightenment thinkers sought to effectively eliminate the church as a pillar of society and thus the structure of Free Masonry seemed the ideal replacement. The two worked hand in hand and spread across the Atlantic to the colonies where a number of prominent people became strongly involved. Rather than being a "conspiracy" it was really the up and coming thing of the intellectual elite who compromised a number of the Founding Fathers.
I guess you would prefer we all be uneducated louts beholden to the church so some leech of a man could tell us how to live our lives and demand a tithe so he could live high and mighty while the common folk wallow?
No thanks Tzor, I reject your religion, and the religion of islam.
I'm open for your interpretation jgordon1111. If you know what an obelisk really represents then maybe you already know. Or maybe the phallus/phallic principles in the obelisk. Or maybe the male and female symbolisms within the 6 pointed star.
What Tzor fails to understand is that Christianity, built upon a one true God through the interpretation of Jesus Chris, has been hijacked by esoteric occultism. Tzor do you believe that the Pope is God representative? How is a mortal man supposed to interpret Gods will unless he has Gods wisdom?? You do know that Freemasonry has infiltrated the church through the Vatican Bank and its subsidiaries?
notyou2 wrote:I guess you would prefer we all be uneducated louts beholden to the church so some leech of a man could tell us how to live our lives and demand a tithe so he could live high and mighty while the common folk wallow?
Oh that is so funny. You may not realize how funny your statement is. On so many levels. But I'll wait to side track until later.
So let's get back to the "Age of Enlightenment." There had been considerable amount of moral political writings that had been developed by the Church over the centuries and it was all ignored by the anti Papist writers of the Age of Enlightenment. (To be honest, most of the secular leaders ignored them as well; and a lot of church leaders tended to ignore them also. On the other hand, consider how many United States Presidents openly and secretly ignored their own Constitution.)
The result of Age of Enlightenment resulted in the following things ... ... The right of revolution ... but never against a legislature ... ... Absolute property rights ... even over other persons ...
notyou2 wrote:No thanks Tzor, I reject your religion, and the religion of islam.
Be my guest. But just because I don't believe in the Greek gods, I throw the writings of the Greek philosophers into the trash. That's effectively what happened in the Age of Enlightenment. The result was a dangerous philosophy. It managed to work somewhat well in America, but it was a complete disaster in France. Church rejection was so massive that they even tried to establish a metric clock.
warmonger1981 wrote:What Tzor fails to understand is that Christianity, built upon a one true God through the interpretation of Jesus Chris, has been hijacked by esoteric occultism.
Wrong. Christianity was "hijacked" from the very beginning. Do you realize how many of these so-called "modern conspiracies" match Gnostic beliefs? Gnosticism was so predominant it almost eclipsed what we call Christianity today. It was the primary reason for the Bible's canonization. It not that there is some big conspiracy to hide the truth, its that as soon as truth is revealed, there is a whole host of attackers that will always fall on to try and deflect from the power of truth. The other side is that the faithful have nothing to fear from these groups, not directly. They only need fear corruption from WITHIN.
warmonger1981 wrote:Tzor do you believe that the Pope is God representative? How is a mortal man supposed to interpret Gods will unless he has Gods wisdom??
I am not Roman Catholic, but even I know this one. It is the Spirit. If that were not so, then the church would have pretty much died out when Christ died. There has to be some inspiration continuing, to match societies' new demands. Now, whether the Pope is the true representative, whether that whole hierarchy is legitimate, is what Christ set forward, that is the real question. We would not, could not have religion unless humans interpreted Gods word to some extent. By merely reading the Bible, seeking understanding, we are interpreting it.
Yeah it was from the beginning. Your well aware that there were religions before Christianity? I'm well aware of Gnostic texts as I own the Nag Hammadi Scriptures. I'm sure Tzor can answer questions directed at him.
warmonger1981 wrote:What Tzor fails to understand is that Christianity, built upon a one true God through the interpretation of Jesus Chris, has been hijacked by esoteric occultism.
"Christianity" whatever that term means in the context you are using it, has been hijacked by everyone, in as much as anyone with something to promote, seeing Christianity, tries to hijack it to suit their agendas.
warmonger1981 wrote:Tzor do you believe that the Pope is God representative? How is a mortal man supposed to interpret Gods will unless he has Gods wisdom??
Well, let's start off at the beginning and work our way towards the end. It is the Holy Spirit that guides the community of believers (by the way, that what the definition of "Church" means if you go back to the Greek from whence it came). This continues through the hierarchy and especially in the assembly of the faithful in councils, especially the "ecumenical" councils. This leads to the Bishop of Rome, first of the Patriarchs and the see of Peter, who has a special position. But his position isn't to "interpret God's will." (That job is for everyone ... it's call a conscience and it needs to be properly formed and examined daily.) What the church teaches is that in areas of "faith and morals" the Holy Spirit guides the Bishop of Rome from "error' (that is, making an Ass of himself).
warmonger1981 wrote:You do know that Freemasonry has infiltrated the church through the Vatican Bank and its subsidiaries?
Well I suppose as long as they keep the Mafia out of the bank it has to be good. Hopefully they won't funnel too much money towards those Shriner's hospitals. Corruption happens at all levels of the church. The church continues through the spirit in spite of all the forces that are thrown against it.
Do you believe that the Catholic Church has NOT been hijacked? Serious question, not an attack on your faith. Are you familiar with the infiltration of Hermetic teachings in the time of Bernini? And the symbolisms of St.Peters square and the obelisk that's in the center? The church is so watered down with Pagan/Mystery Religion that I don't see it as being pure. So if its not pure why follow blindly?
You do know that during the Vatican Bank Scandal that Freemasonry along with the mafia were involved in money laundering? You might want to look into Roberto Calvi aka Gods Banker. His death has many Masonic symbolisms.
I'm not bashing you being a Catholic. I was raised a Melkite Catholic. I have a hard time giving money to an organization that willing participated in the cover up of pedophilia. I live in St.Paul,MN and the Arch Diocese was rampant with pedophilia. I can list other atrocities done by Catholicism but won't.
warmonger1981 wrote:Do you believe that the Catholic Church has NOT been hijacked?
By whom? And more importantly how? Did someone stick a crossbow in the pope's face and tell him to fly the church to Cuba?
warmonger1981 wrote:Serious question, not an attack on your faith. Are you familiar with the infiltration of Hermetic teachings in the time of Bernini? And the symbolisms of St.Peters square and the obelisk that's in the center? The church is so watered down with Pagan/Mystery Religion that I don't see it as being pure. So if its not pure why follow blindly?
In the 16th century? Let's use a counter example. There are tons of Masonic symbolism in the US Capitol. Is the US a Masonic nation?
The notion that there is a obelisk in St. Peter's square doesn't mean that the faith has "changed."
Sadly, little is known of its origins or which Pharaoh ordered its construction, but it was certainly quarried in Egypt and intended to be erected in Heliopolis. Sometime between 30 and 28 BC the red granite obelisk shows up in Alexandria under Augustusās instructions to have it erected in the Julian Forum there.
It was Gaius Caligula who had the obelisk bought to Rome in 37 AD. It was the largest non-inscribed obelisk to leave Egypt, at 25.5 m high and weighing an estimated 326 tonnes. The obelisk was originally erected in gardens Caligula had inherited from his mother, and then on the central Spina of Caligulaās circus. Much of the circus is under under the basilica and square, the original spot for the obelisk is near the present-day sacristy, south of the basilica.
Because of the solid pedestal on which the obelisk was placed, it remained standing for 1,500 until it was moved to where it stands today in Saint Peterās Square. It took thirteen months, between 1585 and 1586 to move and re-erect the obelisk. The idea to move it was that of Pope Sixtus V, as part of his desire to recover and re-erect all the obelisks lying then in the ruins of Rome.
Let's look a little more into Sixtus V. He was no big lover of paganism.
The Pope set no limit to his plans, and achieved much in his short pontificate, always carried through at top speed: the completion of the dome of St. Peter's; the loggia of Sixtus in the Basilica di San Giovanni in Laterano; the chapel of the Praesepe in Santa Maria Maggiore; additions or repairs to the Quirinal, Lateran and Vatican palaces; the erection of four obelisks, including that in Saint Peter's Square; the opening of six streets; the restoration of the aqueduct of Septimius Severus ("Acqua Felice"); the integration of the Leonine City in Rome as XIV rione (Borgo).[7] Besides numerous roads and bridges, he sweetened the city air by financing the reclamation of the Pontine Marshes. Good progress was made with more than 9,500 acres (38 km2) reclaimed and opened to agriculture and manufacture; the project was abandoned upon his death.
Sixtus had no appreciation of antiquities, which were employed as raw material to serve his urbanistic and Christianising programs: Trajan's Column and the Column of Marcus Aurelius (at the time misidentified as the Column of Antoninus Pius) were made to serve as pedestals for the statues of SS Peter and Paul; the Minerva of the Capitol was converted into an emblem of Christian Rome; the Septizodium of Septimius Severus was demolished for its building materials.
warmonger1981 wrote:I'm not bashing you being a Catholic. I was raised a Melkite Catholic. I have a hard time giving money to an organization that willing participated in the cover up of pedophilia. I live in St.Paul,MN and the Arch Diocese was rampant with pedophilia. I can list other atrocities done by Catholicism but won't.
There is a vast difference with the "faith" ... the "organization" and "giving money." There are a lot of dioceses that I find repugnant. Our pastor is being relocated this June. I'm supposed to go to a meeting tonight to discuss the selection of a new pastor. I know that this is just window dressing to appease a generally ignorant congregation; the decision has probably already been made and there is not a damn thing we can do about it. Our current bishop, who should be retiring now, was previously involved with all the scandals in Boston. The hierarchy stinks to high heaven.
Then again, there is Hillary Clinton. Mistakenly protecting pedophilia because you thought it was a treatable cure is far different from deliberately sending storm troopers against those who your husband raped because it was hurting your climb to the highest position of the presidency. Remember that none of these Bishops ever became Pope (or were even considered for the position).
If I understand the Catholic Church is like a living, breathing document of faith?
I believe that Freemasonry or at least it's ideology is the foundation of this country. Is America ran by a Freemason? No. But its ideology is. It's based upon science, reason and the belief of a creator. Remember what every bit of currency says. In God We Trust.
Unfortunately for Pope Sixtus V he is the one who commissioned the raising of many obelisks. He commissioned the obelisk in St.Peters square to be moved the from the Iseum-the Temple of Isis- in the center of Circus Nero. You can't tell me that Pope Sixtus V didn't know that the obelisk was from Heliopolis, The city of the Sun, the religious capital of pharaonic Egypt? The reason the Pope got rid of those buildings was to fund his building of newer monuments.
warmonger1981 wrote:I believe that Freemasonry or at least it's ideology is the foundation of this country. Is America ran by a Freemason? No. But its ideology is. It's based upon science, reason and the belief of a creator. Remember what every bit of currency says. In God We Trust.
Enlightenment was the foundation of the country. Many of the members of the European age of enlightenment looked toward Freemasonry as a replacement for the Catholic Church. Never the less, it was not the only option. Unitarianism was also a major factor among the founding fathers that based their arguments on the age of enlightenment. Franklin and Washington may have sided with Freemasonry, but Adams was a Unitarian and I believe I've seen at least one quote that Jefferson leaned more towards Unitarianism than Freemasonry.
Jefferson expressed general agreement with Unitarianism, which, like Deism, rejected the doctrine of the Trinity. Jefferson never joined a Unitarian church, but he did attend Unitarian services while in Philadelphia. His friend Joseph Priestley was the minister. Jefferson corresponded on religious matters with numerous Unitarians, among them Jared Sparks (Unitarian minister, historian and president of Harvard), Thomas Cooper, Benjamin Waterhouse and John Adams. In an 1822 letter to Benjamin Waterhouse he wrote,
I rejoice that in this blessed country of free inquiry and belief, which has surrendered its conscience to neither kings or priests, the genuine doctrine of only one God is reviving, and I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian.[68]
The founding principles of America were not a "secret" ... they were out in the open. It was the terrors of the revolution that were a secret ... the actions of Samuel Adams and the pagan symbolism of the liberty tree which was watered by the blood of those who opposed the revolution to the oppression of the loyalists who did not favor revolution. These terrors were openly exposed when the French applied the same principles in their "revolution" resulting in the despot of Napoleon.
warmonger1981 wrote:I was watching the new show Lucifer last night and found it odd that his full name was Lucifer Morning Star. If you understand in Freemasonry that Lucifer is the light bearer.
Is that really 'from' Freemasonry?
#1 Venus is the bearer of light because it's precedes the sunrise. #2 Venus is also the bearer of light because it's likely one of the first pieces of knowledge discovered by primitive man, the first 'light-bulb' or 'spark' if you will. Similarly it's why when one starts to think. creates an idea, or 'gets it' is referred to as Light is definitely a symbol of thinking, along with other things. #3 I'm no biblical literalist and I can not say I've ever read the story of Adam n Eve, but it's my understanding that the main thing to take away from the story is that one of them was tricked by the serpent/satan into eating the fruit from the 'tree of knowledge' and that's what made them self-aware, no longer innocent, knowing suffering and evil, my understanding is that they became human beings and while still mammals it marked the moment of separation and the ascension of humanity. I may have butchered the story and passed over tons of other important things, anyone feel free to correct or elaborate.
warmonger1981 wrote:If I understand the Catholic Church is like a living, breathing document of faith?
I believe that Freemasonry or at least it's ideology is the foundation of this country. Is America ran by a Freemason? No. But its ideology is. It's based upon science, reason and the belief of a creator. Remember what every bit of currency says. In God We Trust.
#1 IMhO, 'In God we trust' is also a nod to fiat currency. Fiat is latin for faith. Since we went off the Constitutional gold n silver, there isn't really anything backing up our currency. Some might point out (as I would) the US military 'backs it up', others may point out the theory that simply because we have so much debt is the reason why the 'lender of last resort' is more likely to keep lending more money. Certainly the day will come when the dollar is totally worthless, and 'not worth a continental'.
āPaper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value ā zero.ā - Voltaire
#2 When coupled with what every coin says also, they spell out America's values. E. Pluribus Unum (Latin - out of many, one) Liberty In God we trust
#3 Prometheus also bore 'light'. He stole fire from God and gave it to mankind and he was punished for eternity. When I was into gnostic videos I heard Lucifer and Prometheus linked together and even used interchangeably. Doesn't mean it's a fact or anything, but it made sense.
I think this is the video for you to chose to view or not
probs this one
"Prometheus tricks Zeus into eternally claiming the inedible parts of cows and bulls for the sacrificial ceremonies of the gods, while conceding the nourishing parts to humans for the eternal benefit of humankind."
Not sure if you know this, but there was a time educated people had to hide the fact that they were educated. Think Galileo (er, most everyone who wasn't so brave), or how things that weren't understood by some were automatically labeled as witchcraft. It's true the Church was 'anti-light' (science) because new knowledge and information challenged it's authority and it's own definition of 'light, and that was viewed as a threat to it's power. I don't lay that at the Church's feet though, that's how power works. Not sure if you read my other threads but science operates collectively in a similar way today. Discoveries that don't fit the established models are ignored and even laughed at, and therefore they have to go 'underground'. When society sways too far one way or another in many different aspects, the Lodge is where people can meet to discuss 'dangerous' topics with like-minded individuals without fear of persecution. No doubt many scientists in the dark ages and into the en'light'enment got a lot of work done and made a lot of progress. Just as no doubt political Freedom today is shunned and attacked in a nation indoctrinated in political correctness, even though it was founded on Freedom and Liberty with specific freedom of speech, press, protest, to be armed, not to be forced to incriminate one's self, to be secure in their papers and property etc etc. How does that work with a couple generations that are scared to speak freely because someone else's (imagined) feelings are suddenly more important than one's own opinion??
I speculate the 'Lucifer' stuff is probably related to the deep dark historic clash with Pope Clement V. I don't really see it as a clash with the Church, just with a horrendously corrupt human being who couldn't get the hang of money. I get that over time it's morphed into an obvious truth that Freemasonry is ardently opposed to Catholicism and vice versa and that's just what people are going to knee-jerk respond, usually without ever having met or known a Freemason. I get that a lot with the stronger believers, and it's unfortunate as I don't judge them even though it was the Templars who were burned alive and forced to confess their belief in satan, forced to admit spitting on the crucifix, and other stuff. Many did not confess, some fled West and into the New World, but a few did confess and I guess that's all it takes to get a reputation like that. Also unfortunate most don't understand those confessions were forced by way of torture. Such a long story, such a different story from the inside compared to the outside, I'm sure you've heard something about it.
Basically, I heard all this stuff about Freemasonry, and then I was invited. I looked into as much as I could, but as with everything possible for me I want to see and know something for myself whenever I can. My impression after a few years was that it was nothing like the stories say, but of course I was only an apprentice and then eventually a master. That was about 15 years ago. I've learned tons upon tons since then, still nothing about running the world, illuminati, devil worship. I took my oath on my Bible, my mate Saber who was raised with me took his oath on his Koran. From what I have learned, mostly it's about knowledge and how it was passed on along with why it had to go underground, obscure stories from all over the world about people history books do not mention on topics that some people never ponder over a lifetime. Oh, and drinking a lot of alcohol Being a fraternity, it's also about brotherhood and friendship. A lot of people focus on networking. A lot of people do it to be active in charity. I did it because my grandfather was way into it and he said he thought it was something that was right up my alley and that I would relate to and enjoy, so I took his word for it Plus I was curious and like I said I simply wanted to see it for myself rather than rely on reading someone else's opinions.
That said, I'm not the top degree or anything like that, but I have generations of family and my own experiences to judge over numerous decades that I have never heard the word Lucifer mentioned in Lodge, by my family some of whom were very high in degrees, or by any other member outside of Lodge at any time. Of course, I am aware there is no way for me to know things I have not experienced yet. As I'm sure you are aware that Atheists are not allowed!!!
However, I am a Christian, I believe in The Almighty Creator.
I know praying works, I know why forgiveness is so important, I practice turning the other cheek regularly, and I try to love other people even when they clearly hate my guts. From Christianity I was introduced to basic rules of life. I have learned on my own since then why it's wrong to murder, why it's wrong to steal, why it's wrong to bang married chiks etc along with stories and examples over the ages about all kinds of other things I think are important from the Bible. I admit I have not 'read it' but I still plan on coming clean about what I have read as it's more than I let on in another thread, with so much more to read. Lately, I haven't been going to Church as much as I'd like, but it's in my mind ALWAYS. I'm going very soon though as I have someone important in my life who is in great pain and dealing with addiction and I KNOW she can feel love and get help and see she's in good company with tons of people who are trying to learn to cope with similar suffering.
I am also a Freemason.
The Square is an emblem of virtue in which we must "square our actions by the square of virtue with all mankind". The Compasses exemplify our wisdom of conduct,... the strength to "circumscribe our desires and keep our passions within due bounds". When these 2 Masonic tools are placed together with God (the Creator) as our central focal point...peace and harmony is the result.
When it comes to symbolism, these are the basics and they help me stay on the path, not be a jerk, mind my manners, demonstrate good work ethic, not hurt people, try to help people, be honest as much as I can, be patient, be charitable, and seek knowledge and wisdom (LIGHT). Lately, I haven't been going to Lodge as much as I'd like, but it's in my mind ALWAYS. I'm going soon though, cuz... THE COMET!!!!!
Phatscotty wrote: Not sure if you know this, but there was a time educated people had to hide the fact that they were educated. Think Galileo (er, most everyone who wasn't so brave), or how things that weren't understood by some were automatically labeled as witchcraft.
I have to laugh at that one. Galileo had some really moronic ideas, actually. He never got in trouble for them but others at the time did consider some of his arguments dumb and they were eventually proven right. (True fact that when Galileo argued for the sun centered universe, he used his own theory that the SUN drove the ocean tides.) Galileo's biggest problem was that he often confused science with philosophy and from science facts proceeded to insist philosophical points were "proven." Thus he insisted because of a flawed model that really didn't explain anything better than the other model (which would not get fixed until circular orbits in general were dropped) that the Bible was "in error." You can actually make a better case for Global Warming today than Galileo could for the sun not moving (and guess what it does and it doesn't thanks to relativity ... oddly this applies to the earth as well).
Witchcraft was mostly a secular scam devised to allow some people to steal the wealth of others and then find more victims to scam. The standard model was "guilty" ... even proving innocence was proof you really were guilty.
Galileo is a scientific "saint" merely because the people of the age of enlightenment needed some excuse to call the church "evil." The irony that he was actually trying to make a case for a theory developed by a priest tends to get lost on them. The irony that his proofs were flat out wrong tends to get lost on them. The irony that the theory was no less complicated than the other theory (and really you can't even begin to explain it until a few centuries later ... both models are indirect Fourier transformations) is also lost on them.
Of the 56 figures who signed the Declaration of Independence only nine were confirmed Masons and of the 39 delegates of the Continental Congress who signed the draft of the new nation's Constitution in 1787, only 13 (one-third) were Freemasons. I never said the founding principles of this country were secret. Freemasonry is a secret organization. Just as you work in the light Freemasonry works in the shadows. I will check out that book you suggested though. The French Revolution also had other players such as the Jacobins.
PS I find it odd that all if a sudden your a Freemason. I've been spewing Freemasonry shit for a few years now and you've never once came in to clarify anything I've ever said. I'm well aware of knowledge being hidden for fear of death. The Catholic Church were great at killing people for knowledge. If your a Freemason what does the G represent? Don't say God either because that is false. You should also understand the Kabbalah and its Tree of Life. Or maybe the allegorical meaning of the 2 pillars of Solomons Temple. Or maybe Hiram Abiff. The square and compass have other meanings. You left out the Level/Plumb. If your truly a Freemason I would like to talk but something seems fishy.
BTW what does the Lodge supposed to mirror? If you can answer these then I might believe that your a Mason.
Last edited by warmonger1981 on Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Phatscotty wrote:#3 I'm no biblical literalist and I can not say I've ever read the story of Adam n Eve, but it's my understanding that the main thing to take away from the story is that one of them was tricked by the serpent/satan into eating the fruit from the 'tree of knowledge' and that's what made them self-aware, no longer innocent, knowing suffering and evil, my understanding is that they became human beings and while still mammals it marked the moment of separation and the ascension of humanity.
Yes. The question is always at what point biology and spirit diverge. It seems relatively clear that the form came first, then the spirit. However, is this something like an utterly unscientific people trying to understand God's words and actions or is this merely allegory for what happened? When did ancient man cease to be "mere" animal and become "human"? Biologically, we can probably come up with one answer.. eventually. However, the spirit question, when what looks human actually became human (or was it before we looked completely as we do now?) may never have a true answer.
I find it interesting, too, that while many people simplify the story into "Eve ate the apple and suddenly people sinned", it was really that Adam and Eve gained knowledge, awareness that sin was possible, that there was a difference between good and evil.
In the Kabbalah every word has a numerical value. If you understand the numerical value of the word you then can create. According to them words created everything. Like in Genesis, God spoke and things were created. It's the words that gave life. Life is not possible unless you have math.
PLAYER57832 wrote:I find it interesting, too, that while many people simplify the story into "Eve ate the apple and suddenly people sinned", it was really that Adam and Eve gained knowledge, awareness that sin was possible, that there was a difference between good and evil.
It is interesting to note that the actual punishment for eating the fruit is more annoying than anything else ("I will intensify your toil in childbearing" / "Cursed is the ground* because of you! In toil you shall eat its yield all the days of your life.") The expulsion from the garden is actually done to prevent them from eating from the tree of life.
I've heard of an interesting point about the first sin and who committed it. Adam committed the first fault. We read in verse 6, " So she took some of its fruit and ate it; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it." So he was with her during the entire conversation between Even and the Serpent.
Now if some serpent started to smack talk my wife and call God a liar, I would smack him right in the mouth.
Phatscotty wrote: Not sure if you know this, but there was a time educated people had to hide the fact that they were educated. Think Galileo (er, most everyone who wasn't so brave), or how things that weren't understood by some were automatically labeled as witchcraft.
I have to laugh at that one. Galileo had some really moronic ideas, actually. He never got in trouble for them but others at the time did consider some of his arguments dumb and they were eventually proven right. (True fact that when Galileo argued for the sun centered universe, he used his own theory that the SUN drove the ocean tides.) Galileo's biggest problem was that he often confused science with philosophy and from science facts proceeded to insist philosophical points were "proven." Thus he insisted because of a flawed model that really didn't explain anything better than the other model (which would not get fixed until circular orbits in general were dropped) that the Bible was "in error." You can actually make a better case for Global Warming today than Galileo could for the sun not moving (and guess what it does and it doesn't thanks to relativity ... oddly this applies to the earth as well).
Witchcraft was mostly a secular scam devised to allow some people to steal the wealth of others and then find more victims to scam. The standard model was "guilty" ... even proving innocence was proof you really were guilty.
Galileo is a scientific "saint" merely because the people of the age of enlightenment needed some excuse to call the church "evil." The irony that he was actually trying to make a case for a theory developed by a priest tends to get lost on them. The irony that his proofs were flat out wrong tends to get lost on them. The irony that the theory was no less complicated than the other theory (and really you can't even begin to explain it until a few centuries later ... both models are indirect Fourier transformations) is also lost on them.
thanks, I knew you would be full of specifics and fill in all kinds of interesting details outside of the main point. I didn't choose Galileo for an example because he has the reputation of a revolutionary genius, but rather because the overall story is familiar to everyone who doesn't live under a rock.
warmonger1981 wrote:Of the 56 figures who signed the Declaration of Independence only nine were confirmed Masons and of the 39 delegates of the Continental Congress who signed the draft of the new nation's Constitution in 1787, only 13 (one-third) were Freemasons. I never said the founding principles of this country were secret. Freemasonry is a secret organization. Just as you work in the light Freemasonry works in the shadows. I will check out that book you suggested though. The French Revolution also had other players such as the Jacobins.
PS I find it odd that all if a sudden your a Freemason. I've been spewing Freemasonry shit for a few years now and you've never once came in to clarify anything I've ever said. I'm well aware of knowledge being hidden for fear of death. The Catholic Church were great at killing people for knowledge. If your a Freemason what does the G represent? Don't say God either because that is false. You should also understand the Kabbalah and its Tree of Life. Or maybe the allegorical meaning of the 2 pillars of Solomons Temple. Or maybe Hiram Abiff. The square and compass have other meanings. You left out the Level/Plumb. If your truly a Freemason I would like to talk but something seems fishy.
BTW what does the Lodge supposed to mirror? If you can answer these then I might believe that your a Mason.
It was so secret I almost forgot! Yes I have responded more than a few times. It's okay if you don't remember since I'm getting pretty good at asking the right questions without answering questions that were never asked.
I already addressed the G, and to me it 100% is God regardless of what anyone else wants to say or think. But it only makes sense as #1 I used my Bible for my oath #2 in order to qualify before the first interrogation it must be communicated and even demonstrated that one does in fact believe in a divine authority/higher power. #3 as brotherhood is open to people of any and all faiths even to those who participate in no religious philosophy but believe in a higher power, it only makes sense the G is for God. If you are going the Geometry route there is a perfectly acceptable explanation for how that still comes around to God/higher power/unmoved mover/Creator/whatever anyone wants to call it or understand it as, as mathematics is truly universal . Not sure mathematics qualifies as a higher power but it's definitely the common language of the universe.
Nothing personal, but I'm simply not concerned with proving that I am. Because we share a love for the high art of gangsta rap music or maybe cuz your kewler than most I will voluntarily point out that every single question/concern in your post has already been shared specifically in the big daddy post and in spades.
Oh that is so funny. You may not realize how funny your statement is. On so many levels. But I'll wait to side track until later.
Mistakenly protecting pedophilia because you thought it was a treatable cure is far different from deliberately sending storm troopers against those who your husband raped because it was hurting your climb to the highest position of the presidency. Remember that none of these Bishops ever became Pope (or were even considered for the position).
Light is definitely a symbol of thinking, along with other things.
Being a fraternity, it's also about brotherhood and friendship. A lot of people focus on networking. A lot of people do it to be active in charity. I did it because my grandfather was way into it and he said he thought it was something that was right up my alley and that I would relate to and enjoy, so I took his word for it 
Plus I was curious and like I said I simply wanted to see it for myself rather than rely on reading someone else's opinions.
