Non-Asian Americans failing, lashing out

[mrswdk]

Unwilling to actually support their children to get good grades and perform well, America's non-Asian parents are instead seeking to compete by blocking Asian students out of the system.

Stop discriminating based on academic ability - everyone has the right to be admitted to the best schools!

From NYC to Harvard: the war on Asian success

The year 2015 was a dismal one for American public education — at least by the numbers.

But don’t blame the kids. Parents are missing in action.

Except most Asian-American parents, that is. They tend to oversee their children’s homework, stress the importance of earning high grades and instill the belief that hard work is the ticket to a better life.

And it pays off. Their children are soaring academically.

The outrage is that instead of embracing the example of these Asian families, school authorities and non-Asian parents want to rig the system to hold them back. It’s happening here in New York City, in suburban New Jersey and across the nation.

As a group, Americans need to take a page from the Asian parents’ playbook. American teens rank a dismal 28th in math and science knowledge, compared with teens in other countries — even poor countries. Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan are at the top.

We’ve slumped. For the first time in 25 years, US scores on the main test for elementary and middle school education fell. And SAT scores for college-bound students dropped significantly.

Could changes in these tests be to blame? That convenient excuse was torpedoed by the stellar performances of Asian-American students. Even though many come from poor or immigrant families, they outscore all other students by large margins on both tests, and their lead keeps widening.

Here in New York City, Asian-Americans make up 13 percent of students, yet they win more than half of the coveted places each year at the city’s selective public high schools, such as Bronx Science and Stuyvesant.

What’s at play here? It’s not a difference in IQ; it’s parenting. That’s confirmed by a recent study by sociologists from City University of New York and the University of Michigan, which showed that parental oversight enabled Asian-American students to far outperform the others.

No wonder many successful charter schools require parents to sign a pledge that they’ll supervise their children’s homework and encourage a strong work ethic.

That formula is under fire at the West Windsor-Plainsboro Regional School District in New Jersey. The district, which is 65 percent Asian, routinely produces seniors with perfect SAT scores, admissions to MIT and top prizes in international science competitions.

But many non-Asian parents are up in arms, complaining there’s too much pressure and their kids can’t compete. In response, this fall Superintendent David Aderhold apologized that school had become a “perpetual achievement machine.” Heaven forbid!

Aderhold canceled accelerated and enriched math courses for fourth and fifth grades, which were 90 percent Asian, and eliminated midterms and finals in high school.

Using a word that already strikes terror in the hearts of Asian parents, he said schools had to take a “holistic” approach. That’s the same euphemism Harvard uses to limit the number of Asians accepted and favor non-Asians.

Aderhold even lowered standards for playing in school music programs. Students have a “right to squeak,” he insisted. Never mind whether they practice.

Of course, neither Aderhold nor parents in charge of sports are indulging nonathletic kids with a “right to fumble” and join a mostly non-Asian varsity football team.

Meanwhile, in New York City, Mayor Bill de Blasio and the NAACP want to reduce the role the competitive exam plays in admissions for the city’s eight selective high schools in favor of a “holistic” approach. That means robbing poor, largely immigrant and first-generation kids — nearly half the students get subsidized school lunches — of the chance to study hard and compete for a world-class education.

As Dennis Saffran explains in “The Plot Against Merit,” some Asian-American eighth-graders practice for two years for the test, while their parents toil in laundromats and restaurants to pay for exam-prep classes.

What’s stopping white, Hispanic and black parents from doing the same thing?

http://nypost.com/2015/12/29/from-nyc-t ... s/?ref=yfp

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Merit went out the window a long time ago.

-TG

[jimboston]

http://nypost.com/2015/12/29/from-nyc-t ... s/?ref=yfp

Your source is the Post. LOL

That said...

First and second generation Asian Americans... and also Indian (i.e. Asain/Indian) Americans do typically excel in the American system. It's true. As a percentage of population they do better than any other "race" or "ethnic" group.

It's got more to do with the parents... as the article states... than anything else.

The great thing about the American system... many immigrants are go-getters. They are high-achievers in their home countries, and they carry this attitude with them when they come here. They have to be high-achievers, because those are most likely the type to be able to afford and/or take the risks necessary to immigrate here. There are exceptions of course... but as a percentage, they are typically high-achievers.

Natural born Americans should pay attention to this and step up their game. Many do. However many do not... and so as a percentage other groups don't do as well.

The good thing is... you, individual parent / student... you are not a percentage. You can choose to apply yourself and/or apply this mentality to your kids, and you can achieve as well!

[jimboston]

Unfortunately... a lot of people want to race towards mediocrity.

[jimboston]

There was a similar issue here in Boston in like 1999/2000.

There are 2-3 "Test Schools" in the Boston Public School system. The best is "Boston Latin" which is well known, and is the oldest Public High School in the country. You have to test to get in. They adopted a race-based system that factored race and test score into the decision to admit. A white parent sue'd because his daughter didn't get in.

The district admitted to the policy. They said that having the race system was the only way they could ensure Black and Latino kids got in. They admitted that without the race preference; the percentage of Asians would go up significantly, the percentage of Whites would go up slightly, and the percentage of Blacks and Latinos would drop significantly.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-0 ... eals-court

http://www.adversity.net/c4_tbd.htm

[/]

Americans are dumb because of bad parenting, and Chinese don't have a younger generation to take care of them in their old age due to population control and rapid modernization.

Solution: China adopts America.

mrswdk, will you be my mommy?

[PLAYER57832]

The biggest issue is that we don't have either an accurate OR a fair and equitable system to measure success. Doing well on tests, various admission criteria does not ensure success, not on school and definitely not in real life. Though the old stereotype of kids who are fact-brainy, but low on the ability to be creative, actually think is not as true as it once was in China at least, there is still a fair amount of merit to the debate on what real intelligence/education should be, never mind how to decide who is best suited.

Without that accuracy reference, it is impossible to determine what truly is "fair".

[Bernie Sanders]

Schools and their students are more likely to fail, due to poverty levels in their school districts.

[PLAYER57832]

Schools and their students are more likely to fail, due to poverty levels in their school districts.

This is true. One of the features of some immigrant groups is that they all pool together to help each other and particularly the children of the community in a variety of ways.

I know myself that one reason I stayed out of the official workforce for such a long time (though I did run a home childcare business), was lack of someone able to watch my children. When you have to pay in advance, and most of the employment available has an irregular =, part-time schedule, its difficult. I lost money the first few months I went to work, and for several months more was making $20-40 a WEEK once I had paid taxes, childcare -- and, actually, if you counted gas I just barely broke even. And, just starting a home childcare is not easy, because it is so very dependent upon people knowing you. Anyone knew in a community will have a much harder time (harder than any other business, in most cases).

[Symmetry]

The biggest issue is that we don't have either an accurate OR a fair and equitable system to measure success. Doing well on tests, various admission criteria does not ensure success, not on school and definitely not in real life. Though the old stereotype of kids who are fact-brainy, but low on the ability to be creative, actually think is not as true as it once was in China at least, there is still a fair amount of merit to the debate on what real intelligence/education should be, never mind how to decide who is best suited.

Without that accuracy reference, it is impossible to determine what truly is "fair".

You should see the nightmare I've seen with the implementation of common core implementation in the US.

Tenured teachers are just wrong outside university level.

[Bernie Sanders]

Schools and their students are more likely to fail, due to poverty levels in their school districts.

This is true. One of the features of some immigrant groups is that they all pool together to help each other and particularly the children of the community in a variety of ways.

I know myself that one reason I stayed out of the official workforce for such a long time (though I did run a home childcare business), was lack of someone able to watch my children. When you have to pay in advance, and most of the employment available has an irregular =, part-time schedule, its difficult. I lost money the first few months I went to work, and for several months more was making $20-40 a WEEK once I had paid taxes, childcare -- and, actually, if you counted gas I just barely broke even. And, just starting a home childcare is not easy, because it is so very dependent upon people knowing you. Anyone knew in a community will have a much harder time (harder than any other business, in most cases).

I know how hard it is to have children and trying to earn a decent living wage. I have family members who live in Amsterdam and they offer free pre-school services to single parents who wish to work. Add free healthcare to that mix and you can raise your standard of living. Of course we'll have some posters here that will say, "NOTHING IS FREE!" In a sense they are right, but every Dutch citizen contributes to society and that's what I would call a patriotic duty. Corporations are not patriot, but run their companies for money and greed.

Patriotism is to see that your fellow citizens are able to succeed, but many Americans think laissez-faire Capitalism is best for Americans.

[jimboston]

You should see the nightmare I've seen with the implementation of common core implementation in the US.

Tenured teachers are just wrong outside university level.

The system is broken yes... but I think the American Family (generally) is broken worse.

Low Income and "Broken" Families are a bigger part of the problem. Even if the system was perfect, you would fail because the system cannot replace the family. Strong parents and a strong family often overcome the problems of the system... even in poor districts or troubled districts. Some kids still excel. These are the kids with a strong base.

[Symmetry]

You should see the nightmare I've seen with the implementation of common core implementation in the US.

Tenured teachers are just wrong outside university level.

The system is broken yes... but I think the American Family (generally) is broken worse.

Low Income and "Broken" Families are a bigger part of the problem. Even if the system was perfect, you would fail because the system cannot replace the family. Strong parents and a strong family often overcome the problems of the system... even in poor districts or troubled districts. Some kids still excel. These are the kids with a strong base.

I can only speak for the parts of the US system I've been in, or seen. I'm very wary of an education that looks at certain kids as lost causes because they come from a disadvantaged background.

Part of it is my background as a teacher in Japan too. My first school was a feeder school from an orphanage. As were a few of the others I worked at.

A system that treats kids as broken will end up with broken adults.

[jimboston]

You should see the nightmare I've seen with the implementation of common core implementation in the US.

Tenured teachers are just wrong outside university level.

The system is broken yes... but I think the American Family (generally) is broken worse.

Low Income and "Broken" Families are a bigger part of the problem. Even if the system was perfect, you would fail because the system cannot replace the family. Strong parents and a strong family often overcome the problems of the system... even in poor districts or troubled districts. Some kids still excel. These are the kids with a strong base.

I can only speak for the parts of the US system I've been in, or seen. I'm very wary of an education that looks at certain kids as lost causes because they come from a disadvantaged background.

Part of it is my background as a teacher in Japan too. My first school was a feeder school from an orphanage. As were a few of the others I worked at.

A system that treats kids as broken will end up with broken adults.

It's not just income disadvantages. Those exist, but there are ways to help with that.

The bigger disadvantage is the lack of support at home. This can exists because there's only one parent, or two parents who aren't involved or don't care; or maybe they care but they don't know what to do because they themselves aren't educated. It often boils down to that; Do the parent(s) care, and are they taking steps to help their kid? The help can be just emotional, it can be set by example or direct assistance. The parent(s) have the biggest impact.

Yes, some kids can achieve even with all that against them. The odds are not in their favor.

Yes, you can change the system at the school, and that may have some impact... but to get a sea-change you need to get parental involvement and investment. (Not monetary investment... emotional and time investment.)

[Bernie Sanders]

Single parent families, especially those that are at the poverty level need help.

What these kids need are free pre-school and after school programs that will enhance their skills. Yes, bad parenting does hurt, but don't blame the kids. Otherwise, the cycle of poverty will continue and this becomes a burden to society.

Spend the money now to help these youngsters or we'll spend more later on the court and jail systems.

[Symmetry]

You should see the nightmare I've seen with the implementation of common core implementation in the US.

Tenured teachers are just wrong outside university level.

The system is broken yes... but I think the American Family (generally) is broken worse.

Low Income and "Broken" Families are a bigger part of the problem. Even if the system was perfect, you would fail because the system cannot replace the family. Strong parents and a strong family often overcome the problems of the system... even in poor districts or troubled districts. Some kids still excel. These are the kids with a strong base.

I can only speak for the parts of the US system I've been in, or seen. I'm very wary of an education that looks at certain kids as lost causes because they come from a disadvantaged background.

Part of it is my background as a teacher in Japan too. My first school was a feeder school from an orphanage. As were a few of the others I worked at.

A system that treats kids as broken will end up with broken adults.

It's not just income disadvantages. Those exist, but there are ways to help with that.

The bigger disadvantage is the lack of support at home. This can exists because there's only one parent, or two parents who aren't involved or don't care; or maybe they care but they don't know what to do because they themselves aren't educated. It often boils down to that; Do the parent(s) care, and are they taking steps to help their kid? The help can be just emotional, it can be set by example or direct assistance. The parent(s) have the biggest impact.

Yes, some kids can achieve even with all that against them. The odds are not in their favor.

Yes, you can change the system at the school, and that may have some impact... but to get a sea-change you need to get parental involvement and investment. (Not monetary investment... emotional and time investment.)

The Japanese system works very well with little parental involvement. Many families, at least in major cities are functionally single parent.

A sea-change, I think, requires a fundamental change in how teachers are respected.

[jimboston]

The Japanese system works very well with little parental involvement. Many families, at least in major cities are functionally single parent.

A sea-change, I think, requires a fundamental change in how teachers are respected.

Japanese society is dramatically different than ours.

I agree about the Teacher Respect problem. In Japan disrespect for a Teacher would not be tolerated. In our society, in some quarters, it is tolerated. This is because many Americans have a sense of 'entitlement'; and look at Teachers as 'servants' and not as Professionals who have earned and deserve respect. Disrespect for Teachers is rampant in public schools.

The main reason for this... the parents of these kids don't teach their kids to respect elders.

This change must start in the home.

At the same time... I'm all for expelling kids who have no respect for Teachers.
We'd lose a generation... but you can argue we already are.

I think we are saying the same thing. I can control how my child acts... but I have no control how others kids act, and little ability to impact how public school districts handle disrespectful kids. So my first focus is on fixing the thing I can control.

BTW... many parents have little/no respect for Teachers. My father was a High School Teacher, and I have stories from him. I had conversations with Teachers / Administrators at my kid's school. I have heard horrible stories about how parents also disrespect teachers... thereby teaching their kids it's OK to do the same.

[waauw]

It's all nice and fine to get good grades but scientific study has already indicated that children's play-time enhances their creative development.
Too many evening schools are detrimental to a child's brain development as well.

[mrswdk]

It's all nice and fine to get good grades but scientific study has already indicated that children's play-time enhances their creative development.
Too many evening schools are detrimental to a child's brain development as well.

The article doesn't say anything about pushing kids through endless evening and weekend classes with no time for recreational pursuits.

[PLAYER57832]

The biggest issue is that we don't have either an accurate OR a fair and equitable system to measure success. Doing well on tests, various admission criteria does not ensure success, not on school and definitely not in real life. Though the old stereotype of kids who are fact-brainy, but low on the ability to be creative, actually think is not as true as it once was in China at least, there is still a fair amount of merit to the debate on what real intelligence/education should be, never mind how to decide who is best suited.

Without that accuracy reference, it is impossible to determine what truly is "fair".

You should see the nightmare I've seen with the implementation of common core implementation in the US.

My oldest attends public school, plus I currently work in one. (my youngest goes to private school, in part because of No Child)

[PLAYER57832]

It's all nice and fine to get good grades but scientific study has already indicated that children's play-time enhances their creative development.
Too many evening schools are detrimental to a child's brain development as well.

The article doesn't say anything about pushing kids through endless evening and weekend classes with no time for recreational pursuits.

Are you denying that that is a big part of the success mentioned?

[Compound]

People have always tried to game the system by finding out what skills are on entrance tests and drilling on those skills. Some asians have really taken this phenomenon to a whole new level however. The net result is that schools are finding themselves with students have very high scores on their entrance tests but don't have any of the other skills necessary to be successful in a career or contribute creatively to the programs they are enrolled in. The net effect is these programs are winding up with a lot of students who look great on paper but in reality are mediocre and in over their heads. Many schools, as a consequence are trying to reemphasize a well rounded entrance model. While this does impact Asians, it also helps weed out people of other races who have gamed the system and lack genuine talent. It's not about racism against asians. It's about building a strong educational programs.

[mrswdk]

It's all nice and fine to get good grades but scientific study has already indicated that children's play-time enhances their creative development.
Too many evening schools are detrimental to a child's brain development as well.

The article doesn't say anything about pushing kids through endless evening and weekend classes with no time for recreational pursuits.

Are you denying that that is a big part of the success mentioned?

I highly doubt 'endless evening and weekend classes' are necessary to outperform the average American high schooler.

[puhrinsuhtun]

It's all nice and fine to get good grades but scientific study has already indicated that children's play-time enhances their creative development.
Too many evening schools are detrimental to a child's brain development as well.

The article doesn't say anything about pushing kids through endless evening and weekend classes with no time for recreational pursuits.

Are you denying that that is a big part of the success mentioned?

So Asians are putting more emphasis on education. What's wrong with that?

Oh the horror! Heaven forbid! The Asians are succeeding and contributing to society by producing doctors, lawyers, engineers, entrepreneurs, etc... while other minorities are rioting in the streets and killing each other (Baltimore, Ferguson, Chicago).

The success of the Asians must be stopped.

[Bernie Sanders]

It's all nice and fine to get good grades but scientific study has already indicated that children's play-time enhances their creative development.
Too many evening schools are detrimental to a child's brain development as well.

The article doesn't say anything about pushing kids through endless evening and weekend classes with no time for recreational pursuits.

Are you denying that that is a big part of the success mentioned?

So Asians are putting more emphasis on education. What's wrong with that?

Oh the horror! Heaven forbid! The Asians are succeeding and contributing to society by producing doctors, lawyers, engineers, entrepreneurs, etc... while other minorities are rioting in the streets and killing each other (Baltimore, Ferguson, Chicago).

The success of the Asians must be stopped.

Yet, a lot of Asians go to the USA for higher education.