Creeping toward a new holocaust?

[DaGip]

There will be a Holocaust, and the victims will be straight, white, middle class males. Just ask the Democrats.

That's why I tan and learned to use chopsticks. My penis is small enough to be disguised as a vagina...so no problems there. And, I haven't had a wage increase in at least seven years; so I'm really not even considered Middle or Lower Middle Class anymore. I've almost qualified myself to becoming a full-on Welfare Whore!

Bring on those immigrants! I'm ready for ya!

[Symmetry]

It's not my poll, nor is it a single poll, and I note that you're crying bias without explaining what you think the bias is, or your reasons for thinking so. I'm inclined to believe that your response to the evidence was something of a knee jerk. I'd be happy to hear a more detailed critique.

If you are talking about me...
The bias begins on several fronts. First, what is a US voter in this poll -- people eligible to vote, those who have voted? Neither is necessarily representative of either those who will vote in the next election or of the general public at large, even all republicans. If you really want me to go further into the sampling bias, I can, but in the case of my argument above, it was just an aside. The numbers being precise were not at issue, enough people do think that way to be of concern.

Did you bother to read the post or just the first sentence?

Of course I read the rest. I focused on the part where you made a claim dismissing the sources I'd posted about offhand. Aren't your arguments merely a way to dismiss any opinion poll ever?

[Symmetry]

Also, the Republicans have had creeping fascism for a long time.

True, they are the party that appointed Gerald Ford to the Presidency bypassing any form of vote, I suppose. There's long been an element in the Republican party doomed to repeat history

[thegreekdog]

Also, the Republicans have had creeping fascism for a long time.

True, they are the party that appointed Gerald Ford to the Presidency bypassing any form of vote, I suppose. There's long been an element in the Republican party doomed to repeat history

I'm more concerned with the combination of corporate cronyism and the growth of the military industrial complex than with Gerald Ford. It is also somewhat concerning that the Democrats don't offer a real alternative given our current president and the odds-on favorite to win the Democratic Party nomination.

[riskllama]

can't win, don't try.

[thegreekdog]

Seriously though guys if you vote Trump a guy who actively mocks and does impressions of disabled people as your President then your country is fucked and we will have nothing further to do with you....

To be fair, I don't think the Republican Party leadership want Trump to win the nomination. I suspect they want Bush or Rubio. Maybe Christie.

Although I'm no fan of Trump, but also to be fair, I'm not sure people really care whether he does an impression of a reporter with an illness. I actually don't care. I'm more concerned that he has no idea what he would do if he was president.

[thegreekdog]

can't win, don't try.

I always beat Symmetry.

[Symmetry]

Also, the Republicans have had creeping fascism for a long time.

True, they are the party that appointed Gerald Ford to the Presidency bypassing any form of vote, I suppose. There's long been an element in the Republican party doomed to repeat history

I'm more concerned with the combination of corporate cronyism and the growth of the military industrial complex than with Gerald Ford. It is also somewhat concerning that the Democrats don't offer a real alternative given our current president and the odds-on favorite to win the Democratic Party nomination.

So, just to clarify, you're OK with a national registry and tracking of Muslims, making Islam illegal, restricting people seeking asylum based on their faith rather than their need, and all that, because you don't like the Democrats?

[riskllama]

can't win, don't try.

I always beat Symmetry.

that's not what i meant...

[Symmetry]

can't win, don't try.

I always beat Symmetry.

that's not what i meant...

I think we all know what you meant. PM jgordon and the inglorious bsstards for likeminded nonjudgemental players. Use the code "Risky like love amour"

[thegreekdog]

Also, the Republicans have had creeping fascism for a long time.

True, they are the party that appointed Gerald Ford to the Presidency bypassing any form of vote, I suppose. There's long been an element in the Republican party doomed to repeat history

I'm more concerned with the combination of corporate cronyism and the growth of the military industrial complex than with Gerald Ford. It is also somewhat concerning that the Democrats don't offer a real alternative given our current president and the odds-on favorite to win the Democratic Party nomination.

So, just to clarify, you're OK with a national registry and tracking of Muslims, making Islam illegal, restricting people seeking asylum based on their faith rather than their need, and all that, because you don't like the Democrats?

Wow. You got all that from my post on Gerald Ford and the Democrats not offering a real alternative? Why stop there? Why not also indicate that I'm okay using nuclear weapons on the entirety of the Middle East? You know, just to clarify.

[PLAYER57832]

Also, the Republicans have had creeping fascism for a long time.

True, they are the party that appointed Gerald Ford to the Presidency bypassing any form of vote, I suppose. There's long been an element in the Republican party doomed to repeat history

I'm more concerned with the combination of corporate cronyism and the growth of the military industrial complex than with Gerald Ford. It is also somewhat concerning that the Democrats don't offer a real alternative given our current president and the odds-on favorite to win the Democratic Party nomination.

Agreed. Solution?
(feel free to create a new thread if you choose to take the time to answer)

can't win, don't try.

I always beat Symmetry.

Not so sure about that, and you definitely have not always beaten me.. though you have given up, when you could not convince me.

[thegreekdog]

Agreed. Solution?
(feel free to create a new thread if you choose to take the time to answer)

I don't have one unfortunately. I would begin with educating the electorate AND making them interested in elections on a general basis. Until we have more participation, no politician is really going to care. Some portion of the population will always have uneducated fears and ridiculous solutions, so can't really solve for that.

Not so sure about that, and you definitely have not always beaten me.. though you have given up, when you could not convince me.

It's not so much whether I can convince you. It's more about your lack of evidence and lack of adequate response to evidence I provide. But yes, I usually give up.

[PLAYER57832]

Agreed. Solution?
(feel free to create a new thread if you choose to take the time to answer)

I don't have one unfortunately. I would begin with educating the electorate AND making them interested in elections on a general basis. Until we have more participation, no politician is really going to care. Some portion of the population will always have uneducated fears and ridiculous solutions, so can't really solve for that.

Well, the founding fathers thought that a Republic was at least a big part of the answer. They also limited the vote to mostly land-holding males.

Not so sure about that, and you definitely have not always beaten me.. though you have given up, when you could not convince me.

It's not so much whether I can convince you. It's more about your lack of evidence and lack of adequate response to evidence I provide. But yes, I usually give up.

I would say its about differing on the distinction between opinion and fact. Also, whether evidence is actually real and applicable. Just because something is printed or studied does not mean it is good evidence. And, just because evidence is good in a narrow context does not mean it really adds to or challenges a debate.

[jonesthecurl]

Seriously though guys if you vote Trump a guy who actively mocks and does impressions of disabled people as your President then your country is fucked and we will have nothing further to do with you....

To be fair, I don't think the Republican Party leadership want Trump to win the nomination. I suspect they want Bush or Rubio. Maybe Christie.

Although I'm no fan of Trump, but also to be fair, I'm not sure people really care whether he does an impression of a reporter with an illness. I actually don't care. I'm more concerned that he has no idea what he would do if he was president.

ed perso, so much as

Hmm. I don't think it's the fact that he mocked a disabled person as much as "this guy thinks mocking a disabled person just to invalidate his comments is OK. Is that the sort of person we want to represent the US ?"

[mrswdk]

Nah, he was just doing an impression of a flustered reporter. He didn't realize the guy was disabled.

[PLAYER57832]

Nah, he was just doing an impression of a flustered reporter. He didn't realize the guy was disabled.

In this instance, it really does not matter. Its that he things mockery of people is a proper response to disagreement. Its one thing to mock ideas on a website or at a party, even as a private person. Its something else to step up in a forum where he is asking to be the representative of this country as a whole and to repeatedly engage in attacks of people's attributes, intellect and selves just because he dislikes what they say.
Immature and thin-skinned are 2 appropriate words. "President" is hopefully not one.

I may have disliked Bush, but he was not a complete jerk. For that matter, I think most Republicans in power would prefer Obama over Trump... and probably will prefer Hillary if it winds up being a Choice between Trump and Clinton. Not so sure about Carson, as far as the leadership is concerned, but I would prefer Hillary over him.

[mrswdk]

I think most Republicans in power would prefer Obama over Trump...

Of course they would. Trump doesn't fit into their cozy little Washington circle jerk.

[thegreekdog]

Seriously though guys if you vote Trump a guy who actively mocks and does impressions of disabled people as your President then your country is fucked and we will have nothing further to do with you....

To be fair, I don't think the Republican Party leadership want Trump to win the nomination. I suspect they want Bush or Rubio. Maybe Christie.

Although I'm no fan of Trump, but also to be fair, I'm not sure people really care whether he does an impression of a reporter with an illness. I actually don't care. I'm more concerned that he has no idea what he would do if he was president.

ed perso, so much as

Hmm. I don't think it's the fact that he mocked a disabled person as much as "this guy thinks mocking a disabled person just to invalidate his comments is OK. Is that the sort of person we want to represent the US ?"

Yeah, I still don't care. President Clinton fucked an intern in the oval office, then lied about it. President Bush sounds like an idiot most of the time. President Obama apparently likes hip hop musicians that glorify violence against the police (or, if you're Phatscotty, never released his college transcript). Those kinds of things don't really bother me. What does bother me is what those presidents do (or have done) in office.

Donald Trump shouldn't be president for a whole host of reasons. Mocking a disabled person to invalidate his comments (or making a veiled reference to a reporter's menstrual cycle) are way, way, way, way down on the list of reasons why Donald Trump shouldn't be president. Unfortunately, our society only takes note of these kinds of things and not to things that actually matter (which brings me back to my "educated populace" comment to Player), so we focus on this stupid shit.

[thegreekdog]

Agreed. Solution?
(feel free to create a new thread if you choose to take the time to answer)

I don't have one unfortunately. I would begin with educating the electorate AND making them interested in elections on a general basis. Until we have more participation, no politician is really going to care. Some portion of the population will always have uneducated fears and ridiculous solutions, so can't really solve for that.

Well, the founding fathers thought that a Republic was at least a big part of the answer. They also limited the vote to mostly land-holding males.

Not so sure about that, and you definitely have not always beaten me.. though you have given up, when you could not convince me.

It's not so much whether I can convince you. It's more about your lack of evidence and lack of adequate response to evidence I provide. But yes, I usually give up.

I would say its about differing on the distinction between opinion and fact. Also, whether evidence is actually real and applicable. Just because something is printed or studied does not mean it is good evidence. And, just because evidence is good in a narrow context does not mean it really adds to or challenges a debate.

Yeah, see this is why I always give up debating with you.

First, I don't understand the relevance of your first response (probably because you didn't understand my comment). I'm not suggesting people don't participate because there is a law that they can't. I'm saying people don't participate because they don't give a shit. That's why I laugh at voter registration laws (and detractors of voter registration laws). Who cares? No one votes anyway!

Second, any evidence I provide automatically (AUTOMATICALLY) trumps your personal opinion. Automatically.

[tzor]

Seriously though guys if you vote Trump a guy who actively mocks and does impressions of disabled people as your President then your country is fucked and we will have nothing further to do with you....

Oh come on, he can't be any worse than Obama.

Not much better than Obama ...
But not much worse!

[PLAYER57832]

It's not my poll, nor is it a single poll, and I note that you're crying bias without explaining what you think the bias is, or your reasons for thinking so. I'm inclined to believe that your response to the evidence was something of a knee jerk. I'd be happy to hear a more detailed critique.

If you are talking about me...
The bias begins on several fronts. First, what is a US voter in this poll -- people eligible to vote, those who have voted? Neither is necessarily representative of either those who will vote in the next election or of the general public at large, even all republicans. If you really want me to go further into the sampling bias, I can, but in the case of my argument above, it was just an aside. The numbers being precise were not at issue, enough people do think that way to be of concern.

Did you bother to read the post or just the first sentence?

Of course I read the rest. I focused on the part where you made a claim dismissing the sources I'd posted about offhand. Aren't your arguments merely a way to dismiss any opinion poll ever?

That depends. If you think that information must be entirely without bias to be valid, then yes.. you won't find a poll, or many studies that qualify. This is a real sore point for me. A LOT of people want to claim "bias.. no need to listen" as a valid argument, when what they really mean is simply "this doesn't agree with what I think, so it must be wrong". The truth is it is almost impossible to avoid all bias. Bias is plain and simply a part of not just being human, but of biology. The thing about bias is not that it means we ignore the data, it means that we try to understand the bias so that we can, in a variety of ways, go beyond it.

This is also why I tend to not post a lot of "data", because just posting some figures does not, in truth really yield more information. Folks think it does, but that is their very big bias -- a very harmful one at that, because they often don't recognize it as such.

[Dukasaur]

I think most Republicans in power would prefer Obama over Trump...

Of course they would. Trump doesn't fit into their cozy little Washington circle jerk.

To be fair, he wouldn't be welcome at any of my circle jerks, either.

[Bernie Sanders]

Seriously though guys if you vote Trump a guy who actively mocks and does impressions of disabled people as your President then your country is fucked and we will have nothing further to do with you....

To be fair, I don't think the Republican Party leadership want Trump to win the nomination. I suspect they want Bush or Rubio. Maybe Christie.

Although I'm no fan of Trump, but also to be fair, I'm not sure people really care whether he does an impression of a reporter with an illness. I actually don't care. I'm more concerned that he has no idea what he would do if he was president.

ed perso, so much as

Hmm. I don't think it's the fact that he mocked a disabled person as much as "this guy thinks mocking a disabled person just to invalidate his comments is OK. Is that the sort of person we want to represent the US ?"

Yeah, I still don't care. President Clinton fucked an intern in the oval office, then lied about it. President Bush sounds like an idiot most of the time. President Obama apparently likes hip hop musicians that glorify violence against the police (or, if you're Phatscotty, never released his college transcript). Those kinds of things don't really bother me. What does bother me is what those presidents do (or have done) in office.

Donald Trump shouldn't be president for a whole host of reasons. Mocking a disabled person to invalidate his comments (or making a veiled reference to a reporter's menstrual cycle) are way, way, way, way down on the list of reasons why Donald Trump shouldn't be president. Unfortunately, our society only takes note of these kinds of things and not to things that actually matter (which brings me back to my "educated populace" comment to Player), so we focus on this stupid shit.

Let's be clear, President Clinton did NOT f*ck that intern.

[thegreekdog]

Let's be clear, President Clinton did NOT f*ck that intern.

She did have a nice, big behind; so that surprises me.