[Official]Adventure time mafia:MAFIA WIN!

[Ragian]

@PT, I think it would be nice if you weighed in on Sausage's case on me too.

@Tim, as Rose points out (thanks, Rose), I have only been on two lynches: One where I kept my vote on scum despite confirmed (and almost confirmed) townies took their votes off and one where I carried the case.

[HotShot53]

Well, soldier hasn't posted again since my vote on him, so no changes there...

I like the way Ragian has been posting and the arguments he has made over time, so I still would lean town on him. I can't really blame him for the wing lynch, since I agreed with him at the time lol.

[Whatsausage]

To start, I am sorry for my inactivity recently, busy time at school right before the holiday break. It looks like others must have a similar situation as well though

I can understand that the "easy" move (especially scum move) would be to go for me, but any experienced players should realise that it's unfruitful for town. Or at least make a case.

33% of Sausage's case is that I haven't been pressured before. The main reason being that most have found me towny (or more scummy players were available). The next 33% of the case if that Wing screamed my name when we dragged him to the hangman's noose. While it is always wise to look at the wrongfully strung up, one should also regard the context. I carried the case from the get-go of D3. I didn't sneak in last second because I'm scum knowing who's town. I made a (to me anyway) convincing case that several people felt was strong enough to lynch wing.

The last 33% (and arguably the only scumhunting work actually done by Sausage) consist of the following facts:
1) That I joined the wagon when time was running out (I assume there's a "throwing inevitably dying scummate under the bus to look town" in there).
2) That I voted Tim because I wanted to distance myself from my scummate.
3) That I made a case on Wing (which Sausage disregards completely, he calls it chasing).

Re: 1, I'm almost certain that I was one of the first to point to dakky's slip D1. Here's some evidence:

While I didn't throw my vote after him immediately, I still put on record that he acted scummily. Your statement about me not pointing to dakky until it was too late is untrue. Especially if you factor in the fact that I wanted to go for a non-contributor which several people agreed was a decent idea, but then returned to where we had seen a scummy move.

Re: 2, this pretty much hinges on me being scummy D1. I am adament that the above shows that I was not, but merely put my vote where my mouth was. Surely, I can't be held accountable for what Tim does.

Re: 3, Well, I make cases when I can. I felt there was a case on Wing, you feel there's a case on me. What's the difference?

I'm interested in seeing how others feel about Sausage's vote and case on me.

Can you explain how going for you would be the "easy" move? Do you think me voting you is a scum move?
Also, those first two things are 33% of my case in a strictly numerical sense only. That you had not been pressured yet was not an argument that you are scum, it was a reason to push you instead of Tim again.
While wing saying you are scum is not an end-all, it isn't exactly a vote of confidence for you either. You say you made a case on him, well lets look at it. Main point: Wing hammered streaker. This is an incredibly easy case for scum to make. Obviously scum aren't just going to come flat out and vote for a player without giving a reason, so you do give reasoning for your vote. I think this reasoning is pretty weak. While it was strange the way wing hammered streaker, but that had been pointed out plenty prior to your post. So your post/case comes out pretty close to chasing wing for hammering town.
Now going by your numbers:
1) If you really want credit for pointing out dakky's "slip", why didn't you place your there or at least pursue him on it sooner? Also, why not do something similar for when mitch (I think it was) did the same thing dakky had done?
2) Of course this on its own doesn't make you scum, but I think it should be considered alongside the other points.
3) My point isn't just that you voted wing, it's the way you did it. I feel there is a difference.

Also, no one else has really commented on this case one way or another. Why not? You can disagree with my case, but tell me why you do.

I may be a little quick on the trigger here, but I do think recent events have done more to clear twr. He has posted since soldier was put at L-2. If twr was a scum double voter, he would be able to hammer and then he and his partner would be able to quickhammer tomorrow. Maybe he doesn't trust his partner, but I doubt this. So the only way I see that he would be scum is that he is somehow the only remaining scum and is a doublevoting godfather (unlikely) or he is partners with soldier (if soldier flips scum, then this argument is moot) Of course it is also possible the twr is scum and didn't realize this, but I doubt that

We now have another example of Tim starting a day in one direction before taking a strong 180. He came out questioning the investigation of twr, and then switched to saying we shouldn't question it at all. He did say he remembered that twr is a double voter, so I suppose you can put as much stock in that as you want.

[ptlowe]

@PT, I think it would be nice if you weighed in on Sausage's case on me too.

@Tim, as Rose points out (thanks, Rose), I have only been on two lynches: One where I kept my vote on scum despite confirmed (and almost confirmed) townies took their votes off and one where I carried the case.

I took a look through the first several days of posts and didnt see anything that stood out largely about you. Im still having a hard time with TWR not being scum based upon his actions. I feel whatsausage is town and unsure about Tim. I am kind of leaning hotshot town with potential (if TWR really isnt mafia which everything indicates he isnt) your or Tim being 2nd mafia member after soldier.

[Ragian]

Will post later this afternoon. Must teach students first.

[Ragian]

Main point: Wing hammered streaker.

Wrong. My main point was that Wing hammered streaker after having been on Tim's case the entire day and then, when both were L-1, he magically changed his mind by giving a half-arsed argument about getting the next scum as if getting rid of one scum doesn't make sense if you can't get his scummate.

Also, you make it sound as if making a case is easy. You have to sway people and argue my case. What you should be looking for is whoever jumps on easily. Scum knows that I was in the wrong. I did not know that. I found Wing scummy and went for him. In my opinion, that's the best town play. Wing, on the other hand, carried a case on Tim and then switched votes. It's easy to hammer and go to night. It's not easy to carry a case. If you think it's easy, then this case you're making on me is easy too, right? (Actual question, not rhetorical.)

1) If you really want credit for pointing out dakky's "slip", why didn't you place your there or at least pursue him on it sooner? Also, why not do something similar for when mitch (I think it was) did the same thing dakky had done?

I was chasing inactives at that point. It is imperative that everyone participates. I pointed to his scummy move and got it on record. That doesn't mean that I can't get other things done and make D1 as productive as possible. His scumslip didn't go away.

2) Of course this on its own doesn't make you scum, but I think it should be considered alongside the other points.

This, I can hardly comment on apart from what I've already said.

3) My point isn't just that you voted wing, it's the way you did it. I feel there is a difference.

Please elaborate in which way my vote and case on wing is different from the way you're making a case on and voting for me now.

Also, no one else has really commented on this case one way or another. Why not? You can disagree with my case, but tell me why you do.

If it helps, this annoys me too. I can't believe there's an actual case and people are sitting on their hands. It could indicate that it's town on town violence, but others should decide that. Not us.

re: Rose, in my book he's like 98% town. He was vetted by the cop, we don't (seem to) have a busdriver, and I feel doublevoting Godfather is a stretch, but it is the last two per cent.

re: Tim, I agree. He seems to be all over the place.

@PT, what about S4C?

We're seven left. At least two (but perhaps also no more than two?) are scum and all town power roles have gotten rid of themselves.

Town
- Rose (I don't believe in a double-voting Godfather)

Neutral
- Hotshot (decent reads, but hasn't done much)

Less than neutral (if that's a category)
- Tim (is all over the place)
- Whatsausage (seems to have steered clear of fights till now, but I might be biased)

Leaning scum
- S4C (is hardly playing)
- PT (has promised huge cases, but only reacted, not acted)

---

We need to look at the vote counts.

Official Vote Count
Wing(3)ragian,hotshot53,TWR,pixar
Soldier4Christ(2)Timwoodbury,ptlowe
Timwoodbury(2)Whatsausage,wing

Official Vote Count
Timwoodbury(5)Wing,streaker,whatsausage,pixar,ragian
Streaker(5)Ptlowe,thewhiterose,madmitch,Timwoodbury,WingCmdr
Thats a lynch.

Official Vote Count
Whatsausage?(1)Cyanineeter
Thewhiterose(1)subtleknifewield
Dakky21(6)IB,madmitch,Streaker,timwoodbury,ragian,thewhiterose
Streaker(1)Kevi
Madmitch(3)Kratos664,whatsausage,dakky21
IronButterfly(1)Ptlowe
FPd by streakers/roses unvotes which will NOT count as majority had already been reached

From what I see here, I would start looking into PT and Sausage.

I wish S4C would say more.

[Ragian]

That will be tomorrow. No one else is in a hurry anyway so that's good.

[ptlowe]

Main point: Wing hammered streaker.

Wrong. My main point was that Wing hammered streaker after having been on Tim's case the entire day and then, when both were L-1, he magically changed his mind by giving a half-arsed argument about getting the next scum as if getting rid of one scum doesn't make sense if you can't get his scummate.

Also, you make it sound as if making a case is easy. You have to sway people and argue my case. What you should be looking for is whoever jumps on easily. Scum knows that I was in the wrong. I did not know that. I found Wing scummy and went for him. In my opinion, that's the best town play. Wing, on the other hand, carried a case on Tim and then switched votes. It's easy to hammer and go to night. It's not easy to carry a case. If you think it's easy, then this case you're making on me is easy too, right? (Actual question, not rhetorical.)

1) If you really want credit for pointing out dakky's "slip", why didn't you place your there or at least pursue him on it sooner? Also, why not do something similar for when mitch (I think it was) did the same thing dakky had done?

I was chasing inactives at that point. It is imperative that everyone participates. I pointed to his scummy move and got it on record. That doesn't mean that I can't get other things done and make D1 as productive as possible. His scumslip didn't go away.

2) Of course this on its own doesn't make you scum, but I think it should be considered alongside the other points.

This, I can hardly comment on apart from what I've already said.

3) My point isn't just that you voted wing, it's the way you did it. I feel there is a difference.

Please elaborate in which way my vote and case on wing is different from the way you're making a case on and voting for me now.

Also, no one else has really commented on this case one way or another. Why not? You can disagree with my case, but tell me why you do.

If it helps, this annoys me too. I can't believe there's an actual case and people are sitting on their hands. It could indicate that it's town on town violence, but others should decide that. Not us.

re: Rose, in my book he's like 98% town. He was vetted by the cop, we don't (seem to) have a busdriver, and I feel doublevoting Godfather is a stretch, but it is the last two per cent.

re: Tim, I agree. He seems to be all over the place.

@PT, what about S4C?

We're seven left. At least two (but perhaps also no more than two?) are scum and all town power roles have gotten rid of themselves.

Town
- Rose (I don't believe in a double-voting Godfather)

Neutral
- Hotshot (decent reads, but hasn't done much)

Less than neutral (if that's a category)
- Tim (is all over the place)
- Whatsausage (seems to have steered clear of fights till now, but I might be biased)

Leaning scum
- S4C (is hardly playing)
- PT (has promised huge cases, but only reacted, not acted)

---

We need to look at the vote counts.

Official Vote Count
Wing(3)ragian,hotshot53,TWR,pixar
Soldier4Christ(2)Timwoodbury,ptlowe
Timwoodbury(2)Whatsausage,wing

Official Vote Count
Timwoodbury(5)Wing,streaker,whatsausage,pixar,ragian
Streaker(5)Ptlowe,thewhiterose,madmitch,Timwoodbury,WingCmdr
Thats a lynch.

Official Vote Count
Whatsausage?(1)Cyanineeter
Thewhiterose(1)subtleknifewield
Dakky21(6)IB,madmitch,Streaker,timwoodbury,ragian,thewhiterose
Streaker(1)Kevi
Madmitch(3)Kratos664,whatsausage,dakky21
IronButterfly(1)Ptlowe
FPd by streakers/roses unvotes which will NOT count as majority had already been reached

From what I see here, I would start looking into PT and Sausage.

I wish S4C would say more.

Doesnt sound like your really making a case. Sounds like your just pushing items around. I have made cases and your hearsay is setting off my scumdar.

unvote vote rage

[Endgame422]

Official Vote Count
Ragian(2)-Whatsausage,ptlowe
Soldier4christ(1)-hotshot53
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch deadline will be monday the 30th.

[Ragian]

Brilliant. Getting anxious, are we?

PT's not getting involved:

D1

A joke vote

vote ib for stepping up

Asking others to do the leg work.

not really much going on yet eh. the peppermint patty is dead. I could see Mitch eating a peppermint patty.

Other than that not much going on in this game yet. Anyone else have any reads or are semi in the joke vote stage.

-pt

That was all D1 apart from one more statement saying that mitch always looks scummy. Nothing substantial, no reads, no fosses, no votes, nothing.

D2

Starts out with a promise

I'm back going to read through and make my reads

Then come the reads. I'm shorting it down in order to refer to it later. You can find it in its entirity here.

Steaker.....before today I would have sided with you. I now believe Mitch(god help me) on TWR and if that is true you are definately scum. Also, Tim had a similar type reaction to one I have had in another game. I believe him...No excuse for game play as its piss poor but I believe him. I think hes town and your mafia. If you flip town then TWR is mafia simple as that. If TWR flips mafia then obviously so is mitch, but right now I think you got Win on your side and your mafia.

[...]

Ragain...Strongest town read.

Pixar streaker tim ragain...

One of them is mafia

Streaker is scum plain and simple. Ill post more tonight on it. Pixar big bandwagon player not liking the play there either.

No doubt (despite any evidence) that streaker is scum.
Next post explains that it's a gut feeling and a book discussing how gut feelings are right 95% of the time.

Just a gut feeling. Ive seen streaker play exactly like this before and he was mafia. I have been in Tims shoes and done what Tim did. Do I condone it...No fin way as Ive learned, however I still think Tim doesnt get the game and I think we all know that. That being said, the push by streaker on him second and white rose first just reminds me of tendency. In my gut I believe hes mafia. There is a book called "Blink" which discusses intuition and that 95% of the time your gut instinct is right. So far in this game my gut has been right about scum and I have let them slip through my fingers....No way jose this time. If Tim flips town I emplore everyone to lynch streaker day 3

I especially like the stuff I underlined. It's pretty clear that PT had not made any reads about any scum. The only proven scum, dakky, he hasn't even mentioned.
Then, after the lynch, come a few reads with no substance to it. Mere observations.

I reading pixar as the other mafia. Sausage seems town this game. Mitch is playing a better game then normal...Well Tim is Tim.........I dont even know what to say about his play.

D3
Wing votes for PTlowe and this is the immediate reaction.

Vote Wing

Hammer on streaker did it for me. TWR made a good point on you and Im following his lead this game as I think his reads are good. Shame are streaker for budding up with you thats what got me suspicious.

Doesnt change my stance on you. You are mafia case and point. So when and if I die and do flip town people wont be dumb enough to let you live another day. However I imagine TWR will be dead during the night after my death which will give you free reign of the game due to the rest of the players here playing lacky to everyone else.

Surely, this goes both ways. We lynched wing so now we will have to lynch you, right?

PT - who is scum with me?

Why is me switching from voting Tim to Streaker a scum move?

You know how to build an argument, so why are you not doing so?

Ill make a case tonight. Along with one on my other read.

More promises.

On a side note, i still don't like soldierofchrist/cyans play. Doesnt seem like enough added value vote soldier

Pot calling the kettle black. Also very interesting to switch votes now that wing is scum "case and point". This is self-contradictory at best.

The claim screwed me up on making the case. I will still do so tonight for you sausage.

Ive been busy in rl and sick so trying to keep up without letting the group down too much. I think i will be able to be morw active this weekebd and next week.

Backtracking on promises and revamping earlier promise.

I think soldier is a better play. I dont like killing power roles. If we are wrong on Wing then this is going to go bad quick. Im still not happy with cyan/soldiers participation.

How can someone who says diddly be better than someone you know is scum "case and point"?

Im betting he [Wing] comes out town

Yes, now that the lynch has occurred you do. Conveniently. A few posts back, you knew that he was scum. If this is not damning evidence, I don't know what is.

D4

Im going to have to review from day 1. Based on play pixar seemed like scum. He didnt even tell us who he tracked n1 and why the claim he basically targeted himself without a need....

twr....if there is anyway that mitchs read got screwed we are screwed...your fights with streaker and wing are the rewson they both were lynched.

Going to have to review reageb. Be back on the hunt tonight

New promises (it should be noted, however, that PT did find one quote from D2 or something and used it to...well...sort of incriminate Rose and then dilute it afterwards) and clear skimming. Pix was town watcher, but fucked it up thinking he was a tracker.

vote hotshot

Hes just been coasting. Havent really seen him help at all. Also im still not sold on twr...but for now ill look elsewhere. The one thing ive been thinking is what if twr isnt a double voter but someone ia voting with him who is. Going to need your help thia game sausage if twr is scum. The only three i see being able to influence this game enough are me sausage and twr....hotshot and soldier arent doing jack...twr keeps influencing town lynches and tim seems oblivious. Rage is interesting still working on that read. I think one mafua between solder and hotshot and one between rage and twr

This is good because this makes PT accountable. 1) he's never suspected hotshot till now. He votes for hotshot saying that there is scum between him and soldier. 2) Either Rose or me is the second scum. That means that we can infer that Sausage and Tim are PT's town reads.

We must get mafia today. If we don't it will be 3v2 tomorrow with next kill being do or die. I'm willing to go after soldier today. I don't see him adding up as town play. Not a lot either way going on with that play but cyan play was definitely weird at best. I think that's our best bet today.

unvoted vote soldier

Now, hotshot is left in favour of soldier.

@PT, I think it would be nice if you weighed in on Sausage's case on me too.

I took a look through the first several days of posts and didnt see anything that stood out largely about you. Im still having a hard time with TWR not being scum based upon his actions. I feel whatsausage is town and unsure about Tim. I am kind of leaning hotshot town with potential (if TWR really isnt mafia which everything indicates he isnt) your or Tim being 2nd mafia member after soldier.

All of the sudden hotshot is town despite having "coasted" the entire game. Below is the icing on the cake:

Doesnt sound like your really making a case. Sounds like your just pushing items around. I have made cases and your hearsay is setting off my scumdar.

unvote vote rage

I wasn't. I was prepping. I was luring you out. You bit. You got anxious. You voted.

While the case may be self-explanatory, here are my main points about PT.
- No cases despite loads of promises. Some reads have been given out, but most reads change in the next post or are ignored for something else.
- Extremely confident accusations against streaker (confidence through gut feeling) and wing (due to hammer).
- Despite learning streaker is town and having said that then Rose is scum, PT never goes for Rose with his vote.
- Misrepresents own actions as "having been right about scum", but never even voted dakky.
- Comes out guns blazing against Wing D3 whom he knows is scum "case and point", but ends up voting soldier and says after the lynch that he bets Wing is town.
- Comes out voting hotshot D4, but then changes to soldier, and then to me now saying that he's leaning town on hotshot.

The inconsistencies are multiple. The promises of cases are multiple. I'm also interested to hear from PT what cases he has actually made. He says he's made loads.

vote PTlowe

PT's vote on me is an admission of guilt. I would presume that Sausage is his scummate, but to be honest it could be Tim too.

@Rose, I need you in here.
@Hotshot, I need you to take a stance.
@Soldier, come on, son, say something.

[Ragian]

Sorry about the long-arse post. If you want the cliff-notes only, they're at the end of the post.

[ptlowe]

Sorry about the long-arse post. If you want the cliff-notes only, they're at the end of the post.

With only two votes on you your desperation is showing. Also cutting and pasting partial quotes doesn't prove anything. Wing was right about you.

[ptlowe]

Wings admission and chat during the day made me switch who I thought was guilty. Same as today, your actions reek desperation and guilt.

[ptlowe]

So just that my current reads are out there.

Ragain and soldier scum pair.

Everyone else town.

Things change as the game goes a long little reactions or nonactions create the point of the game. I made a case on rose today and he proved that it wasn't possible. His actions seem scummy but I don't have any idea how he could be scum. I changed my mind on wing. The only town I have a part in lynching is streaker....Can you say that ragain???? Nope you have killed 2. Good job.

[Ragian]

1) It doesn't count as desperation when one vote can get you lynched. Rose is a doublevoter. I have faith in him, though.

2) I didn't singlehandedly kill anyone, buddy. Also, you need to sort out your facts. I was on ONE town lynch (Wing) while I also helped lynch scummy dakky. You have done absolutely nothing that serves town right besides not being on the wing lynch (which, of course, you didn't have to - you know he's town because you're scum knowing who's who - since Wing hanged himself (he even admitted to which looked like a desperate last resort)).

3) Now, the only comment you have on all the stuff I've put out there is to say that I can't take partial quotes and put it together. Do explain your actions so we can discuss it. You have chosen to ignore it instead. Your strongest town read is on your arse and you're fiddling while Rome is burning.

Luckily, the rest of the players (even your scumbuddy, I would imagine) will agree that your actions and responses are half-baked. You need to defend better if you want to avoid the noose, I believe.

[ptlowe]

Naw your scummy ass is getting lynched today.

[Ragian]

Luckily, it's not for us to decide now

I hope the rest will take part now.

[ptlowe]

Luckily, it's not for us to decide now

I hope the rest will take part now.

Yeah who knows Happy Thanksgiving all

[the white rose]

hmm, right now i am leaning towards pt being scum. I first suspected him on d2 when he did not contribute much, for an experienced player.

Not gonna vote yet though, with a double vote have to be very careful as my vote plus 2 scum could lynch a townie. When i do vote it will be for keeps i will not move my vote....in fact it will probably be the hammer.

Ragian has made good posts throughout this game and if he does turn out to be scum, all i could say is hats off to him....only thing that bothers me is wing's dying words fingering ragian......yet he was wrong with tim and streaker too.

Unless something dramatic happens now i will be voting ptlowe.

Its now that we are paying the price for losing mitch. we needed more from the cop.

[ptlowe]

Then you will be killing townie number 3. Just fyi. I am the breakfast princess and vt. Just so you have all of the info. And we dont know if wing was wrong about tim. Tim is still with us.

[Ragian]

I honestly can't say if I have already claimed, but I am Raspberry Princess - VT.

[ptlowe]

I honestly can't say if I have already claimed, but I am Raspberry Princess - VT.

Just looked in the wiki....guess what there is no raspberry princess. There is a multiberry princess but not rasberry....your caught scum

[ptlowe]

Im willing to hang ragain or soldier. Let me know which everyone else is willing to hang

[the white rose]

thats true, but wildberry princess looks like a raspberry, and ragian could have made that mistake whether he was scum or town.

Is it more likely that he would make such a mistake if he were scum? that is what i need to consider.

I have already lynched 3 guys for making mistakes, wing and streaker were both town. I don't want to lynch another cos of a mistake that does not prove town or scum.

I believe that scum are given safe claims, dakky's claim of jake the dog was never countered, so was a safe claim, now if ragian is scum and was given the fake claim of wildberry princess how could that claim have translated to raspberry princess? did the mod provide a picture with the fake claims? probably not....but i know for a fact that he did when allocating roles. So using that argument ragian could have seen his role and the picture and easily have translated it to raspberry princess.

indeed, when googling raspberry princess it shows a picture of wildberry princess. Should it be a false claim ragian would have been provided with a picture of her character but not necessarily a picture of any fake claim.....if he was given the role then he would have a picture for sure, i think you would have needed to see the picture in order to misname the character raspberry princess, therefore i conclude that its more likely that ragian was given wildberry princess (and picture) and made an honest mistake.

i will continue to wait however to allow others an input before i take any action.

[Ragian]

Wildberry princess. Thanks, Rose. I need to ask endgame to resend my role PM so I can afford you with a picture. Hang on