[Beginner] Straight Mafia - TOWN WINS

[TimWoodbury]

i honestly dont know i gotta go through and o a reread i think friday is my day off so will be when i do my full reread though when i do full reread ill be able to show where to me i thought soldier was wanting to get out of the joke vote stage and sort as well

[AladdinSane]

Yes, you need to step up and put forth your views on various players, TIm. You are going to look more and more scummy if you fail to do that.

[AladdinSane]

Okay, just saw your latest post. Will wait for your re-read and comments with great interest.

[the white rose]

I have NFI what FPD (posted a few time IRT moi) actually means but let's move on...Was the "soft claim" of Doc a mistake...apparently...will I be lynched for it? apparently..

OK, I am still confused, just for me DJ, are you claiming doc, or are you withdrawing your soft claim and now denying doc?

oh and FPD generally means that the post was written before the more recent post(s) were seen

[bosaardbeitje]

Okay, I finally have a bit of time to look at the matters at hand. The first thing that caught my attention is this:

Alternative scenario to Alladin's if we mislynch a townie today, and one dies in the night:

Tomorrow we are 6 alive, 4 town 2 mafia. At that point, the Cop NEEDS to claim, having found scum or not.
If he found a scum, easy lynch. If not, he can clear 2 townies that he investigated + himself, effectively giving town a 2/3 chance of lynching mafia that day.

If cop claims today, he can only clear 1 town and himself (assuming cop found a town, if cop found scum he NEEDS to claim that today), giving us 2/6 chance of hitting mafia.

I would add to that, that if we are likely to lynch someone today who the cop has already found to be town, he should claim today, to prevent the lynch, of course if he knows someone to be scum he should tell us....he should not be afraid as there is very likely to be a doc who can protect our cop in the night. Scum would have to first guess the doc (if not PJ) nk him and then nk the cop the following night, but by then we will have invaluable information to win the game without any further help from the cop.

Rose, going on what you just posted, cop could claim right now. At least, that is what you are suggesting. Cop claims, have doc protect him at night. That clears 2 town right now and have us a smaller pool.

I'm not sure about this... Thoughts?

I think I would prefer the Cop to subtly steer away from lynching a Townie or let it happen and hope for a useful investigation during N2. I would rather not give mafia the advantage of knowing all the Power Roles in here as I am not sure how exactly that would play out, but my gut feeling says that we shouldn't give them a bigger advantage then they already have.

I have NFI what FPD (posted a few time IRT moi) actually means but let's move on...Was the "soft claim" of Doc a mistake...apparently...will I be lynched for it? apparently..."It" and the Streaker manipulation...BUT White Rose don't get your knickers in a twist about my "attacks" on the NudieMan...I have played lots (prob hundreds) of CC games both with and against him in all cases we are pleasantly unpleasant to each other...not probs...
BUT : we who are about to die Saute You
When the NudieMan has managed to turn popular opinion in favour of my demise...I'd just like to point out that that two most recent posts wound back on the attacks and then went off on a different tangent...suggests that he sees the hatchet job is already done on me and is now starting to quietly withdraw to confuse the finger pointing when my lynching sees another Townie as Killed In Action then another one as Mafia Kill during the following night ..still don't know how long I've got but so long and thanx for the fish!!!

@ DJ If you get lynched today and flip Town, Streaker will be everything BUT popular tomorrow. He will be our number one suspect and he is experienced enough to know that.

I don't have a lot to add today.

Earlier, I outlined a theory that has Streaker/DJP as the Mafiosi. I'm not wedded to the theory but I think it is a possibility.

One thing that worries me is that DJP just might actually be the doc. He could have softclaimed from inexperience, and it is plausible that the Mafia didn't pick up on his oblique claim. I know that I missed it, although if the spelling of 'Hippocrates' had been correct, I like to think I would have been on it. DJP in a recent post wrote 'Saute' instead of 'Salute', so maybe these are joke misspellings. Bos also said she missed the hint. All this means that Streaker might be wrong in saying that the fact that DJP didn't get NKed makes him look scummy - the Mafia might have missed the hint too. That suggests yet another scenario, in which DJP is actually Town and Streaker is scum and gunning for him. That seems to be the case DJP is making. What we need, as others have pointed out, is for DJP to come out and make a better defense and give us his thoughts on other players. He is being a bit Soldierish at the moment, and it could well get him lynched. So, for now, I think I'll backpedal a bit on my suggested strategy from earlier. there might be too much of a risk of hanging our doc (if, indeed, there is a doc).

Mitch has appeared on my radar but his post today suggests there are reasons for his lack of substantial posts to date. At the moment I am adopting a wait-and-see attitude. If Mitch doesn't make good on his promise to come up with more fairly soon, though, I could see myself voting Mitch for D2.

Tim remains neutral for me for now, but he is another who has to step up and contribute more if he is to avoid generating further suspicion against him.

In summary: FOS @ DJP, Streaker, Mitch.

I am actually starting to lean in the opposite direction and see a scenario where DJ and Streak are both Town. DJ making some simple mistakes being a new player and Streak helping us out as an experienced player. I don't think Streak would go after DJ so obviously to get him killed, because it will most likely get him killed tomorrow. Also, since he is so experienced, he would probably be able to lure us into voting for DJ without making himself a target.

The 2 of them apparently know each other and like to argue with each other, from what I understand. I suggest both of you stop doing that now, because it's not helping and it's distracting. If both of you are Town you want to look at everybody in here and not tunnel on each other and you certainly don't want to distract us. Also, you don't want to give scum the opportunity to lean back and watch you fight each other.

I also changed my mind about questioning DJ on his claim. I think we should stop asking DJ for more information, before he gives away too much and let scum figure out what they want to do with it during the Night.

I want to know reads from DJ, Tim, Mitch and TWR. I think Aladdin and Rizky are Town, how about you guys?

[madmitch]

Streaker asks for thoughts on his diatribe to assign me to a lynching so here's mine...Streaker was the first to pick up on my intentionally mmisspelt "claim" so he and henchman decided to use this to kill another townie and leave me as easy picking...and yes, Soldier was already due for the rope so what better for him to do than let us lynch our own then pick off an easy target in the night and get me next day...good thinking on his/there part but don't get sucked in...Streaker lurks this Mafia site and knows th ropes...if Dom Streaker and henchmen get a strong townie they're in the home straight...[color=#FF0000]VOTE STREAKER [/color]and keep a close eye on those jumping on his bandwagon

Instead of OMGUS-voting me the minute I call you out, how about you try and show me where I am wrong in my read?

--

Suppose I am mafia, and I read your doctor claim, what do you consider is most likely? That I nightkill what is probably the only role capable of stopping a night-kill, or gambling on killing a townie knowing he could get saved, only to try and push a case on a claimed doc the next day, where if I am wrong, will probably get me killed (or at least draw a metric crapton of attention to me), which could be easily avoided by just killing you in the night.

It's far more likely you used your safe claim to avoid a cop investigation on you.
My case stands. You only have my vote on you, and you use faulty logic to counter me.

Convince me I am wrong by showing us what you have done for town so far, and adressing the points brought forward by me.

streaker made a good point,and nothing has changed so VOTE DJ

[Epitaph1]

VOTE COUNT

Patrick - Streaker, whiterose, mitch (L-2)
Streaker - Patrick

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline: 9:00 CCT on Monday, November 23.

[rizky_biznezz]

I'm waiting for Tim's reread but at the moment think I'm leaning against voting DJ.. If he is the doc he is probably getting night killed so we will find out then but then that leaves the question who to vote instead..

Leaning Tim or mitch whats everyone else thinking?

Streaker made a good case and DJs reaction wasn't helpful but not sure I'm willing to vote either of them yet..

Rose is playing very differently to the other game which he was scum and despite a few absences he has still attempted to give us opinions so I think town for now

aladdin has made some interesting points can't rule him out but town for now

Bos im sticking with town for now too.. I'm more curious about the other 4

[rizky_biznezz]

On second thoughts [color=#FF0000]vote mitch[/color]

[rizky_biznezz]

Lol stupid phone lets try that again vote mitch

[madmitch]

Here we go again, Rizky thinks I am scum, what is your reasons ? IF it is a lack of posts I will tell you why , I am an old fart with no patience , I have no interest in long drawn out posts granted I will read them and tell you if I agree or not and try to remember why, I am not like you young guns and ladies who wants to sit there pounding on the key board, so forgive me or not don't really matter, you play your way ,I will play mine

[AladdinSane]

Here we go again, Rizky thinks I am scum, what is your reasons ? IF it is a lack of posts I will tell you why , I am an old fart with no patience , I have no interest in long drawn out posts granted I will read them and tell you if I agree or not and try to remember why, I am not like you young guns and ladies who wants to sit there pounding on the key board, so forgive me or not don't really matter, you play your way ,I will play mine

This makes you look scummier imo. It is the kind of thing Soldier would post, and we all know how well that ended. We're not asking you to write a novel, just give us some brief thoughts on each of the players. Add some value to the discussion. You have been after Tim since early on, but you haven't really justified your stance. You can play your way if you want, but you might not be playing it very long. I am leaning toward voting for you.

[AladdinSane]

Mitch, I think the reason you are coming under more scrutiny now is just a s imple process of elimination. Me, Bos, TWR, RB, and Streaker have all posted fairly detailed thoughts and seem to be scum-hunting. That's 5 out of 8, leaving you, Tim, and DJ. DJ might be doc, so that leaves you and Tim. We'll just have to see which of the two of you gives the best account of themselves before the vote. At the moment, TIm is ahead imo. So that leaves you.

[AladdinSane]

I am actually starting to lean in the opposite direction and see a scenario where DJ and Streak are both Town. DJ making some simple mistakes being a new player and Streak helping us out as an experienced player. I don't think Streak would go after DJ so obviously to get him killed, because it will most likely get him killed tomorrow. Also, since he is so experienced, he would probably be able to lure us into voting for DJ without making himself a target.

That's probably the most likely scenario. I just wanted to put out the DJP-sacrifice theory as an alternative to see what everyone thought. It hinges on whether DJP is scum. If we lynched him and he flipped scum, Streaker would look good. That's the central thought behind the theory I outlined. On the other hand, if Streaker knows DJP is Town, it wouldn't make sense for him to go after DJP like he has because he would certainly be next if DJP flipped Town.

In summary:
I think Streaker/DJP = scum is plausible.
I think Streaker/DJP = Town is plausible.
I think Streaker = Town, DJP = scum is plausible
I DON'T think Streaker = scum, DJP = Town is plausible.

[rizky_biznezz]

DJ is new here so the claim may have been accidental... but he also said he has played mafia before so i would assume he knows a little..
defensive and avoiding questions and the fact that he wasnt around much D1 really makes him look bad...

still not sure of mitch... his start was different to the other games and his post after tim voted for him was strange:

@ Tim whose says I was not joking in my first post, any way some times the joking gets carried away and we lose all sight of the mission send the scum back to hades, and the only reason you are voting for me is because of the other game we are in so let it go Tim let it go

mitch is usually all about the jokes and it was very early in D1 so thats a weird statement from him.. and his defense of tim voting for him doesnt make sense..

the only votes at that stage were 3 on mitch but then soldier votes tim and all of a sudden mitch is voting tim as well first with no reason to back it up but then when questioned:

I thought Tims vote was just a joke vote but it was not so I thought then okay tit for tat that is why I voted for him

tim had already said twice that it was a joke vote and mitch had responded saying it didnt look like a joke vote but yet he comments:

Sorry Tim, I missed where you said it was a joke vote so unvote and at this moment I am inclined to vote for I.B. because we have not heard from him and that is scummy. vote I.B.

at this stage he unvotes Tim:

there isnt really much of a case on tim and he can build a better case on IB who had been missing for a while
IB is one of the more experienced players in this mafia so a good target for scum.. also happened to be the target of the nightkill after mitch couldnt get anyone on board for the lynching..

mitch agrees with my post about IB being missing from both mafias so most likely busy and not being scummy but still keeps his vote...

IB comes back and votes tim... mitch jumps straight back on tim

mitch is missing throughout the whole soldier thing.. soldier is making himself look guilty on his own and mitch knows that we are lynching a town so he doesnt need to intervene and this way gets credit for not voting for him

only acknowledges that we lost 2 towns... no mention that one was a cop... he might not have even looked he already knew that he had nightkilled a town

doesnt have much to say about the DJ/Streaker case other than saying streaker looks scummy.. trying to make a case on another experienced player


im still undecided just thought i would look at other avenues..

leaning town on rose at the moment...

streaker made a good case from what we had... but im on the fence with him

aladdin seems like he is trying to scum hunt, has some good ideas and making some good cases so town for now

already posted some thoughts on you so didnt think i needed to explain further... granted not an iron clad case but you didnt acknowledge or explain any of your actions or give me anything else to look at... i also put together some thoughts on tim which you didnt take note of.. so i havent really seen any real attempt from you to help town.. i was going with you or tim, tim at least attempted to explain some things and said that he would come back with his thoughts... you pretty much just said you couldnt be bothered... how does that convince me to change my vote?

[TimWoodbury]

okay so i did a very brief read tonight heres what im thinking and what i was thinking yesteday (real life not d1) mitch you seemed kind of fast to think that my vvote on you D1 was a serious vote even after i had said at least twice it was a joke vote. so what did you do you jsut OMGUS voted me, here starting D2 you jump right out and more or less say soldier was town so i must be skum so your keeping vote on me. (i think the joke vote on you made you nervous why was you so nervous and quick to jump at me)
vote mitch

[Streaker]

okay so i did a very brief read tonight heres what im thinking and what i was thinking yesteday (real life not d1) mitch you seemed kind of fast to think that my vvote on you D1 was a serious vote even after i had said at least twice it was a joke vote. so what did you do you jsut OMGUS voted me, here starting D2 you jump right out and more or less say soldier was town so i must be skum so your keeping vote on me. (i think the joke vote on you made you nervous why was you so nervous and quick to jump at me)
vote mitch

I don't like this post one bit, especially after this one:

i honestly dont know i gotta go through and o a reread i think friday is my day off so will be when i do my full reread though when i do full reread ill be able to show where to me i thought soldier was wanting to get out of the joke vote stage and sort as well

It's such a weak case on mitch to make, ignoring several statements by others and not following up on soldier as he said.
At this point I don't want to lynch DJ today, so Unvote. I feel a better candidate is popping up for today, I will post this my thoughts on this in my next post. DJ seemed more genuine with his latest posts, and Aladdin made me reconsider the risk of potentially lynching the doc at this point. IF dj is genuine on his doc claim, there is no way he'll survive the night so it's a wasted lynch.

[Streaker]

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you Timwoodbury:

Early on D1 a very quick wagon builds on madmitch. The participants are: mitch - Bos, Tim, whiterose (L-3)

These are all joke votes (or at least from rose and bos), mitch stays surprisingly calm under this early pressure. This gives me a town vibe on mitch.

This is Tim's first vote on mitch:

vote mitch you leave alot to be disired from the 1st post there only skum would wanna get a headstart and be the 1st to post:)

This is a joke vote, yet a quite strong one and this IS pulling the game out of the joke vote stage. By itself, a town play. However it's not a town play if you then proceed to:

I say we vote up one of the ones who want mitch dead, I bet at least one of those awful 3 are mafia

what made you so eager to get out of the joke vote stage?

question other player why wanting to get out of joke vote stage.
Also at this point Tim has been going slightly against soldier, which at the time was a much stronger scum read. But he didn't vote him until much later.

After this, discussion gets underway and this happens:

@ Rizky , I voted for Tim because he went right after me because of my first post. granted it was more serious than I usually post but I wanted to try something different. I thought Tims vote was just a joke vote but it was not so I thought then okay tit for tat that is why I voted for him

did youforget how to read i sai it was a joke vote

Calling his vote on mitch a joke, yet he hasn't bothered unvoting mitch and pressuring anyone else. Scummy play.

Soldier was pushing a no lynch discussion, and Tim responded with:

yh i think the noobies saying no lynch dont realize its worse to no lynch then it is to mislync so im gonna give them a pass and call them town (they will slip up if they are skum)

'Giving him a free pass'. Remember, Tim did vote soldier without even providing a good reason. So much for that free pass.

In the mean while, soldier does manage to give a read:

I think its awfully suspicious that TIM went from wanting to random lynch to attacking me for going against it, I say we put up Tim guys. No townie would want to do that.

With soldier as a confirmed townie, this is very important. Discussion really picks up now, all this time Tim's 'joke vote' is still on mitch. He even calls himself out for it but doesn't unvote:

@ streaker why am I the scummiest? I placed two votes so far 1 against Tim because he came after me, granted he said it was a joke vote but it is still there,and now I am after I.B. because he has not posted since Fri, granted I said I hope it was because he was scum hiding in the shadows and not because he was sick or something.

actually i hadnt realized the joke vote was still on you then again there has been soo little activaty here its hard to throw a vote anywhere. the noobies deffinatly gotta steap it up and post more often so we can get a better feel for this

From here, we move on to IB's read (another confirmed townie) on Tim from D1:

I say we vote up one of the ones who want mitch dead, I bet at least one of those awful 3 are mafia

what made you so eager to get out of the joke vote stage?

Right now this is the first thing that caught my attention. Soldier appeared to be joking and Tim jumped on him.

vote Tim

All of this is happening over the course of multiple days, and Tim's 'joke vote' is STILL on mitch. A while later, he finally switches his vote to soldier, for the very strong reason of ' I don't wanna die hope someone else gets lynched instead'. /end sarcasm.

unvote mitch
vote soldier some prolly gonna say oh well this is jsut because mitch asked blah blah blah some might say this is me wanting to fast lynched but hell i almost got fast lynched while i slept....... hes L-1 im L-2 now ill go ahead and claim im VT

The vote count when soldier got lynched looked like this:

Tim - Soldier, whiterose, IB, mitch (L-2)
Soldier - Patrick, Aladdin, Tim, bos, whiterose*, risky (LYNCH)

Both confirmed townies voting on Tim, while my top 2 'scum reads' of today were on Soldier.
I must honestly admit if I were more active, I would be on soldier as well, there was little wrong with the case on him, doesn't take away my facts.

Tim was a good candidate on D1, and he didn't improve on D2. Tim very active on D1, yet on D2 when discussion with DJ started there was no sight of him. Like I said, he looks very content on letting my push DJ. With me reading Tim as scum, this actually give DJ some town credit.

What little he posts, made no sense:

hmm if i remember the last beginner game streak sat back and let others run the game this one hes doing quite the opposite hes being very pushy especially of the new guys. so FOS streaker

Pushing me for my 'meta', in a game where i didn't even play. Not checking your sources, spreading false information= scummy

The entire time DJ and I are discussing, Tim neglects to give his thoughts on our discussion. Instead:

Tim u posted in the other mafia how come nothing in here we need ur thoughts

i didnt post here yesterday becuase i couldnft find where i last left off wwith postings. reading this page it almsot looks like TWR is fishing looking for a cop role

Rizky asks Tim to give us all his scum reads, yet fails to mention a single one (not wanting to share his thoughts). At this point, I am very content to lynch Tim today:

Vote Tim


(TL;DR, Tim very scummy from the start of the game, let's lynch him today).

[rizky_biznezz]

umm explain that bottom bit streaker cos it looks pretty scummy...

(TL;DR, Tim very scummy from the start of the game, let's lynch him today).

[Streaker]

umm explain that bottom bit streaker cos it looks pretty scummy...

(TL;DR, Tim very scummy from the start of the game, let's lynch him today).

I made a very long post, and summarized what I said: Tim has been scummy from the beginning of the game (which I explained thoroughly, and that I believe he is our best lynch today).

What about the case itself?

[rizky_biznezz]

i agree a lot of it could be considered scummy... i mentioned some of it in my case... not sure if i find it scummier than mitch right now though.. but i will wait and see what everyone else thinks..

[Streaker]

i agree a lot of it could be considered scummy... i mentioned some of it in my case... not sure if i find it scummier than mitch right now though.. but i will wait and see what everyone else thinks..

A few are calling out mitch... but I don't see it. Can you recap for me what you think is lynchable about mitch play?

[rizky_biznezz]

his unusual start,his votes, no attempt to give reads or make cases, very little to say during the dj debate, his response when i voted him...

[Streaker]

his unusual start,his votes, no attempt to give reads or make cases, very little to say during the dj debate, his response when i voted him...

I'm trying to make sense of it, and here is my thought:

lets not let this happen people, this is a nice town, we got to find them mafia scum and get rid of them

Mitch opens with a generic statement, but gets called out for wanting to 'find mafia' too fast.

Whatever happened to useless jokevoting? vote madmitch for getting straight to business.

Love the deadline by the way, very specific

vote mitch you leave alot to be disired from the 1st post there only skum would wanna get a headstart and be the 1st to post:)

To me, this is a scummy point to both bos and tim, not mitch. In fact, it's his response to the early pressure that makes me believe mitch is town. Because he stays so calm.

I reread your big post on mitch, and agree with about half of it. I have seem mitch make some good plays, and a few scummy ones. I do link mitch to Tim for some extent, because I fully agree that he was completely absent during DJ discussion, and did the same with soldier. Tim did about the same.

I still prefer Tim. Let's hear what the rest has to say.

[madmitch]

On a side note, I am liking Alladinsane and rose (town read), bos got an extra town point with her summary post bringing her up to neutral slight town read.
Ragian same story only I think he really might be afk instead of scummarining.

I AGREE with Alladin and TWR being town , Bos is leaning scummy along with Tim .DJ is new still hard to read, don't like his docter claim and how he lived the night and why he did not protect anyone. If I was reading your posts right it looks like you invited him to this game and was trying to help him out, but you was not playing favorites and you held nothing back which makes you town in my book,to bad we can not say the same about Ragain your post on Tim are perfect I was trying to say the same thing but as usual I can't get my point across, and I agree VOTE TIM