Religion vs Homosexuality

[warmonger1981]

Obviously mrwlk doesn't understand the concept of being psychologically mature enough to make informed decisions. An 11 year old doesn't understand the effects of sexual acts on the psyche. Maybe mrwlk thinks a five year old is capable of making sound decisions to vote for mayor. If their old enough for sex why not voting? Don't get mad when children vote in a pedophile dressed up like Barney. What you said mrwlk is the most horrific thing I've ever heard on this site. You must be a pedophile to come up with an excuse for child sex. If I seen you in real life I would f*ck you up.

[mrswdk]

Obviously mrwlk doesn't understand the concept of being psychologically mature enough to make informed decisions.

I do and the only serious research I have seen done on sexual relationships between children and adults concluded that the relationships had no negative impact upon the child.

You must be a pedophile to come up with an excuse for child sex.

Yeah, just like you have to be gay to support equal rights for gays.

[Bernie Sanders]

Obviously mrwlk doesn't understand the concept of being psychologically mature enough to make informed decisions.

I do and the only serious research I have seen done on sexual relationships between children and adults concluded that the relationships had no negative impact upon the child.

You must be a pedophile to come up with an excuse for child sex.

Yeah, just like you have to be gay to support equal rights for gays.

That's some really F$&#ed up Sh!t.

[mrswdk]

Obviously mrwlk doesn't understand the concept of being psychologically mature enough to make informed decisions.

I do and the only serious research I have seen done on sexual relationships between children and adults concluded that the relationships had no negative impact upon the child.

You must be a pedophile to come up with an excuse for child sex.

Yeah, just like you have to be gay to support equal rights for gays.

That's some really F$&#ed up Sh!t.

Another excellent contribution from the tax-dodger extraordinaire.

[tzor]

What Jesus actually said was that to divorce was wrong because in so doing you made a woman a prostitute. In that time and day, this was essentially true. Even so, he also said "for anything except adultry". In that case, even the Roman Catholic Church has always approved divorce.

Not so fast back at you. There is an odd exception in the Gospels. This is often mistranslated as "adultery" but there are two other generally known meanings of the term porneia.

Another interpretation of porneia is to translate it as sexual activity prior to marriage. This is known as the “Betrothal” view. In Jewish marriage, betrothal was a formal step prior to the consummation of the marriage. Once betrothed, the parties were legally married even though they did not enjoy all of the benefits of marriage. Nevertheless, divorce would still be required if someone wanted to call off the wedding. According to the betrothal view, the exceptive clause means: divorce and remarriage are prohibited, unless there has been infidelity prior to the wedding itself, in which case the marriage does not have to take place.

The betrothal view is appealing because, in the beginning of Matthew’s Gospel (See Mt 1:18-19), Joseph is described as a “righteous man,” who, nevertheless, had decided to divorce Mary during their betrothal period since he suspected her of porneia. Joseph could not be called “righteous” if he was about to do an action which would later be condemned by Jesus. Therefore, this situation in the beginning of Matthew's gospel explains why Matthew inserted the exceptive clause.

A third interpretation is called the “Rabbinic” view. In the rabbinic view, porneia is interpreted to mean marriage, or in general, sexual activity, within the prohibited degrees of kinship as specified by Leviticus 18. Many scholars agree that Matthew was writing to a mixed Jewish/Gentile community. Gentiles, unlike the Jews, would sometimes enter into marriage with a close blood relative. The influx of Gentiles into the Christian community caused the leaders of the Christians to specify what was necessary of Gentile converts. Their decision is found in Acts 15:20, which includes a statement that Gentiles must avoid porneia. In this context, porneia most likely means marriage to a close blood relative.

According to the rabbinic view, the exceptive clause means: divorce and remarriage is prohibited, unless the marriage is unlawful in accordance with Lev 18, in such a case Gentiles must separate and enter into a lawful marriage.

The Catholic Church has never "approved" divorce. Technically speaking, she cannot "approve" divorce. Divorce is "civil" construct. The church has never recognized that "divorce" breaks the bonds of sacramental marriage, assuming that a proper sacramental marriage was formed in the first place.

[tzor]

You think it's better for a couple who get along badly to stay together and make their kids put up with their parents' crappy marriage all the way through childhood?

"Crappy marriage" is an interesting notion. Yes there are exceptions, (and it is caused often by rushing into marriage, but sometimes major things happen) but for the most part, marriage is a four letter word (WORK). If you look at the core of most marriage breakups it is a combination of conflicting selfish reactions. If you can't deal with someone you pledged your life to, how are you going to deal with the children when they start to go in directions you don't want to go?

[mrswdk]

You think it's better for a couple who get along badly to stay together and make their kids put up with their parents' crappy marriage all the way through childhood?

"Crappy marriage" is an interesting notion. Yes there are exceptions, (and it is caused often by rushing into marriage, but sometimes major things happen) but for the most part, marriage is a four letter word (WORK). If you look at the core of most marriage breakups it is a combination of conflicting selfish reactions. If you can't deal with someone you pledged your life to, how are you going to deal with the children when they start to go in directions you don't want to go?

ikr. And how is a woman who selfishly goes out to work every day ever going to find the time to be a good mother?

[jimboston]

Is this OP for real?

I'm not sure if it is or if it isn't.

I want to believe that's is so "out there" that it can't be for real,
however I'm fairly sure there are people who actually think this way.

I'm beginning to hate to admit I 'kinda' used to think like this.
I was raised catholic and somehow thought homosexuality was
inherently "wrong" or even "evil" just by its' very nature.

I started to realize how programmed I was maybe around the
age of 17... but even then I didn't openly accept equality.

It wasn't until relatively recently (maybe the last 3 years or so)
that I finally accepted the fact that there's no logical reason to
hinder the freedoms of gay people.

Not only should happy people have equal freedoms... homosexual
people should too.

(That last line was a little language definition joke. Please realize that I'm serious about my believe in equality for homosexual humans.)

[mrswdk]

I'm beginning to hate to admit I 'kinda' used to think like this.
I was raised catholic and somehow thought homosexuality was
inherently "wrong" or even "evil" just be its' very nature.

I started to realize how programmed I was maybe around the
age of 17... but even then I didn't openly accept equality.

Thank goodness you've moved on from the sort of irrational fear being spewed by Bernie in this thread.

[jimboston]

I'm beginning to hate to admit I 'kinda' used to think like this.
I was raised catholic and somehow thought homosexuality was
inherently "wrong" or even "evil" just be its' very nature.

I started to realize how programmed I was maybe around the
age of 17... but even then I didn't openly accept equality.

Thank goodness you've moved on from the sort of irrational fear being spewed by Bernie in this thread.

Please don't use my quote against another person.

[strike wolf]

So I snuck into the rehab place and it took some digging and talking to the staff but after learning that these arguments only happened when Doomyoshi was helping in the kitchen, I found the old man that Doom was arguing with:

[mrswdk]

I'm beginning to hate to admit I 'kinda' used to think like this.
I was raised catholic and somehow thought homosexuality was
inherently "wrong" or even "evil" just be its' very nature.

I started to realize how programmed I was maybe around the
age of 17... but even then I didn't openly accept equality.

Thank goodness you've moved on from the sort of irrational fear being spewed by Bernie in this thread.

Please don't use my quote against another person.

That quote became public property the second you hit 'submit'.

And if you don't like freedom then you can go live in France.

[jimboston]

I support the freedom and rights of pedophiles just as I support the freedom and rights of all sorts of other minority groups.

Really?

So you feel a child is fully capable of consent?

[jimboston]

I support the freedom and rights of pedophiles just as I support the freedom and rights of all sorts of other minority groups.

Just to be certain I understood you correctly. Let me rephrase: Do you support pedophiles comitting an act of pedophelia? For instance a 30yo having sex with an 11yo?

Good luck getting a straight answer.

[jimboston]

I support the freedom and rights of pedophiles just as I support the freedom and rights of all sorts of other minority groups.

Just to be certain I understood you correctly. Let me rephrase: Do you support pedophiles comitting an act of pedophelia? For instance a 30yo having sex with an 11yo?

I support the right of two individuals to consensually engage in sexual activities with any other individual who consents to engage in those activities with them.

So again... a minor child is capable of "consensually" engaging in sexual activities?

[mrswdk]

I support the freedom and rights of pedophiles just as I support the freedom and rights of all sorts of other minority groups.

Just to be certain I understood you correctly. Let me rephrase: Do you support pedophiles comitting an act of pedophelia? For instance a 30yo having sex with an 11yo?

I support the right of two individuals to consensually engage in sexual activities with any other individual who consents to engage in those activities with them.

So again... a minor child is capable of "consensually" engaging in sexual activities?

Yes.

I mean, what is considered a 'minor' is entirely fluid from region to region, but I'm just going to give a blanket 'yes' to all regions.

[jimboston]

Obviously mrwlk doesn't understand the concept of being psychologically mature enough to make informed decisions. An 11 year old doesn't understand the effects of sexual acts on the psyche. Maybe mrwlk thinks a five year old is capable of making sound decisions to vote for mayor. If their old enough for sex why not voting? Don't get mad when children vote in a pedophile dressed up like Barney. What you said mrwlk is the most horrific thing I've ever heard on this site. You must be a pedophile to come up with an excuse for child sex. If I seen you in real life I would f*ck you up.

+1

as an aside... how did thread turn from a conversation about the rights of homosexual adults, to something about pedophiles?

Homosexuality is NOT equivalent to Pedophilia.

Homosexuality is NOT a "gateway drug" to Pedophilia.

[jimboston]

The significant divorce rate which tears families apart and tears at the hears of their children.

You think it's better for a couple who get along badly to stay together and make their kids put up with their parents' crappy marriage all the way through childhood?

You are missing the point entirely. A couple who gets along badly isn't living a Christ-centered marriage. How can you not get along with a saint? The issue isn't the marriage r relationship, the issue is the people think their own goals are more important than Christ's.

Different subject than OP.

[mrswdk]

http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... r_children

The experiences and perceptions of 25 boys in on-going relationships with pedophiles in the Netherlands were studied using a semi-structured interview technique. Areas of personal significance or value to the boys, including the pedophile relationship, the pedophile himself, and the sexual contact, were investigated for their emotional meaning and salience. The older partner and pedophile relationship were found to be significant but not overly important aspects of the boys' experiences. The partner and relationship, including sexual aspects, were experienced in predominately positive terms; evidence of exploitation or misuse was absent.

[jimboston]

Is this OP for real?

I'm not sure if it is or if it isn't.

I want to believe that's is so "out there" that it can't be for real,
however I'm fairly sure there are people who actually think this way.

I'm beginning to hate to admit I 'kinda' used to think like this.
I was raised catholic and somehow thought homosexuality was
inherently "wrong" or even "evil" just by its' very nature.

I started to realize how programmed I was maybe around the
age of 17... but even then I didn't openly accept equality.

It wasn't until relatively recently (maybe the last 3 years or so)
that I finally accepted the fact that there's no logical reason to
hinder the freedoms of gay people.

Not only should happy people have equal freedoms... homosexual
people should too.

(That last line was a little language definition joke. Please realize that I'm serious about my believe in equality for homosexual humans.)

I'm not sure you read and/or understood the OP.

Sounds like a "Gay Bashing" OP to me. No?

[jimboston]

I'm beginning to hate to admit I 'kinda' used to think like this.
I was raised catholic and somehow thought homosexuality was
inherently "wrong" or even "evil" just be its' very nature.

I started to realize how programmed I was maybe around the
age of 17... but even then I didn't openly accept equality.

Thank goodness you've moved on from the sort of irrational fear being spewed by Bernie in this thread.

Please don't use my quote against another person.

That quote became public property the second you hit 'submit'.

And if you don't like freedom then you can go live in France.

1) I said "Please". In an ideal world we are kind to our follow people. No?

2) You are using my words to bash Bernie... even though I don't see where he made any homophobic comments.
So you're kinda um... lying.

[jimboston]

I support the freedom and rights of pedophiles just as I support the freedom and rights of all sorts of other minority groups.

Just to be certain I understood you correctly. Let me rephrase: Do you support pedophiles comitting an act of pedophelia? For instance a 30yo having sex with an 11yo?

I support the right of two individuals to consensually engage in sexual activities with any other individual who consents to engage in those activities with them.

So again... a minor child is capable of "consensually" engaging in sexual activities?

Yes.

I mean, what is considered a 'minor' is entirely fluid from region to region, but I'm just going to give a blanket 'yes' to all regions.

... but the age of "majority" is moot if a "minor" can consent to sex.

i.e. in the US it ranges from 16yo to 18yo depending on the State. i.e. in some states a 16yo can consent to sex with an adult, and the adult is not at risk of statutory rape, and in others the individual would have to be 18yo.

In your world... it wouldn't matter what the definition "age of consent" is... a 5yo could consent, and the 42yo would be fine.
Yes or No?

[jimboston]

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/226985334_Pedophile_relationships_in_the_Netherlands_Alternative_lifestyle_for_children

The experiences and perceptions of 25 boys in on-going relationships with pedophiles in the Netherlands were studied using a semi-structured interview technique. Areas of personal significance or value to the boys, including the pedophile relationship, the pedophile himself, and the sexual contact, were investigated for their emotional meaning and salience. The older partner and pedophile relationship were found to be significant but not overly important aspects of the boys' experiences. The partner and relationship, including sexual aspects, were experienced in predominately positive terms; evidence of exploitation or misuse was absent.

1) 25qty. is not a statistically significant number.

2) I'm not going to download a study promoting pedophilia to my computer.

3) There are endless studies documenting the inability of minors to make rational decisions... even past the age of 18yo for some people. Young people are less able to factor in long term problems, and only look at short term benefits. As such they are much more easily led to decisions that will have adverse affects. If you allow pedophilia to be legal if both people consent, you open the door to significant abuse by pedophiliacs (i.e. freaks) to trick minors with favors and incentives.

4) How would you factor in the rights of parents (guardians) to make decisions for minors? I make all kinds of decisions for my kids every day. If they can make this decision on their own... should they not also be able to make other decisions on their own???
(In which case my kids would eat only candy, skip school frequently, and never leave the computer.)

5) If you do allow parents (guardians) to make decisions allowing minors to engage with pedophiles... do you not see a whole new world of abuse that will potentially occur, with some people "pimping out" their kids???

6) I can't believe I am wasting my time arguing with you about this. It's ridiculous and sick.