Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[mtamburini]

Anything worth reading? Seen some shit about testing claims but does anyone want to actually scum hunt? Wheres AOG been since he got bacK?

[Streaker]

whats your stance on hotshot, no dodging now

You are dodging yourself.

well regardless we shouldn't be lynching tambo today. since he does have the ability to prove himself.
so no point in continuing to harass him.

Going off that, deff think mafia laid low on the last few days, and didn't say much. Maybe we lynch hotshot, name was brought up by someone yesterday to me, didn't really have a good response. Ill probably be looking at him today.

If you think he's acting scum, then you push his case and try to lynch. If you think he's town you lay off. What exactly does his ability prove?
Any particular reason for your 'mafia laid low' comment?

I've never seen you use 'maybe' before. You either hunted, or you backed someone up. Some vague statement 'name was brought up but can't bother to go and look back' isn't your usual playstyle. It's worth a FoS. Good that you'll 'probably' look at him today and not have others do it for you. Oh wait.

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

Waste of a shot I will revive him.

again you missed the whole shits earlier....

dd5 claimed to be commuter or some shit. aka he goes away at night and can't be targeted by night actions.

Hence the vig shot shouldn't kill dd5.

DD claimed commuter yes, but it's an unproven claim. Targeting him with a vig shot is probably more effective then lynching him. Great way to prove him right, and it 'saves' us from 1 of the shots going into a townie (not really enough lead to safely shoot 2 people + lynch at this point). Surprised you ain't seeing this, probably just ignoring it or protecting DD knowing his claim is false.

so was my push against virus scummy? do you disagree with the reasons i had with pushing him? or is this just a case because "i pushed someone that is now dead town"

Not scummy, no. Wrong choice of Ultra/virus. That's scummy, and that's why I feel looking at virus wagon is best at this point.

EBWOP: anamaniacs, I must kill 2 people tonight. I cannot delay the vig.

i don't believe you

How can you not believe that? Even so, that statement is worthless. It fits the meta, and he WILL prove it. Because he HAS to use his shots.

[StorrZerg]

Anything worth reading? Seen some shit about testing claims but does anyone want to actually scum hunt? Wheres AOG been since he got bacK?

yeah familiarize yourself on hotshot, he hasn't said that much. I'm pushing him right now, so take notice

[StorrZerg]

whats your stance on hotshot, no dodging now

You are dodging yourself.
No, i'm delaying my read. I've all ready given a stance on hotshot. Seems to be working well right now in my eyes.

well regardless we shouldn't be lynching tambo today. since he does have the ability to prove himself.
so no point in continuing to harass him.

Going off that, deff think mafia laid low on the last few days, and didn't say much. Maybe we lynch hotshot, name was brought up by someone yesterday to me, didn't really have a good response. Ill probably be looking at him today.

If you think he's acting scum, then you push his case and try to lynch. If you think he's town you lay off. What exactly does his ability prove?
Any particular reason for your 'mafia laid low' comment?
Because i think its true. Because of who i am town reading, and who i don't have a strong town read on. If dd5 is mafia, then its likely mafia kept active to avoid him being lynched. I don't believe he is mafia, thus all major pushes yesterday, ultra, virus, dd5, aog#1 had been town, thus mafia don't need to take a hard stance, specially at the end of the day when its AoG#1 vs dd5. Thus, they are allowed the choice of mind to sit and eat popcorn. As far as hotshot, i am pushing a case on him, different than the normal manner, but i am putting pressure down for certain.

I've never seen you use 'maybe' before. You either hunted, or you backed someone up. Some vague statement 'name was brought up but can't bother to go and look back' isn't your usual playstyle. It's worth a FoS. Good that you'll 'probably' look at him today and not have others do it for you. Oh wait.

Really? Lets say i have. Lets say our last game, i said it likely 20-30 times. Fairly simple to hit control f, and see how many times i said the word per page. Quite astonishing it is, that you didn't even bother to make sure what you would state now would be correct. As far as letting others make the case. So? i made my stance on him. I'll post my case when i'm ready, So again, whats your stance..

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

Waste of a shot I will revive him.

again you missed the whole shits earlier....

dd5 claimed to be commuter or some shit. aka he goes away at night and can't be targeted by night actions.

Hence the vig shot shouldn't kill dd5.

DD claimed commuter yes, but it's an unproven claim. Targeting him with a vig shot is probably more effective then lynching him. Great way to prove him right, and it 'saves' us from 1 of the shots going into a townie (not really enough lead to safely shoot 2 people + lynch at this point). Surprised you ain't seeing this, probably just ignoring it or protecting DD knowing his claim is false.
I assume this wasn't directed at me.

so was my push against virus scummy? do you disagree with the reasons i had with pushing him? or is this just a case because "i pushed someone that is now dead town"

Not scummy, no. Wrong choice of Ultra/virus. That's scummy, and that's why I feel looking at virus wagon is best at this point.
I stand by the choice of virus over ultra in that situation 100% if a lynch would happen. I've even explained it multiple times. Its the cop out routine to go for ultra, because you are unsure. My suspicions of ultra gaining power upon virus death proved to be correct. Regardless of his alignment, you never lynch ultra in that situation. In the end, i choose option #3, neither and pushed AoG. Now you want to look at the virus wagon, why not hotshot...

EBWOP: anamaniacs, I must kill 2 people tonight. I cannot delay the vig.

i don't believe you

How can you not believe that? Even so, that statement is worthless. It fits the meta, and he WILL prove it. Because he HAS to use his shots.
your right, he likely is telling the truth, but me believing or not believing him, does that indicate my alignment? Does my paranoia make sense, thinking he would gain a special power, when he claimed he would not, then he does....

[StorrZerg]

They are both scum and are misdirectino us...

C'mon, people! Down with Pancake!

This one is also pretty scummish to me, shoots down the two who are actually saying anything and then pulls a random out of thin air. Why pancake? I have my reasons but I would be interested to hear yours.

.... Because I have played mafia with him for 7 years... On this site... And... I... like... to.... give.... him.... shit....

You notice it wasn't the first time I made that point, or are you skimming???

you can use all the credits you want about history, but you need to explain your reads. Just simply stating "i have tenor and this guy is mafia" doesn't mean shit when we don't know your alignment.


Anarkistsdream

still doing nothing to contribute tot he game

Umm... ever hear of a joke vote? That is a weak case for even you to make storr...

FP by storr... and being as you are attacking/voting him with no reason, as you have done to others, I'd say his generalization is pretty accurate.

So, i put this as a slight defense from hotshot regarding my push on anark. Anark, yes i missed the joke, but at this point i clearly state "still doing nothing to contribute to the game" Hot shot doesn't comment on that, instead he comments on the joke side. which leads to his second comment being almost meaningless since i do give reason. The phrasing of his post, seems to indicate a strike down on my case on anark, and give credit to the generalization of my play.

Wow, this forum has been active, I guess having both storr and mtam in a game helps that lol. I would disagree with anark's vote against storr... that is how storr always plays, throwing any little thing against the wall, sees what sticks, how people reacts, tries to upset people, etc... not saying I like that play style, but that's what he does, so I don't get a scum read from it.

I still think ultra's trying to shut down conversation before it even started is the most scummy thing so far, so I will leave my vote there. I am not 100% opposed to a no lynch if at the end of the day everyone with pressure has legitimate sounding claims (although in that case I usually go for my default of an inactive/scummarizer), but doing it from the start has no town purpose.

Virus being absent, but visible visiting the boards could be suspicious... we'll see if the votes and the prod gets him going.

I agree with the FOS on streaker, depending on how ultra flips/claims (obviously if ultra turns out to be town, a bigger FOS on streaker than if ultra turns out to be scum)

I think that covers the major points of the day so far...

Ultra wasn't trying to shut down conversation, he kept trying to discuss why he felt no lynch was better over lynching. So his push on ultra seems a bit off from the conventional reasons of different policy. Specially since he continues to argue with ultra about why no lynch is worse than lynching.

This is his only mention of virus, before he sheeps my read. Which really isn't anything, again restating what has all ready been stated by others.

I just wanna bold this section, also to point out that hotshot did not follow up on streaker at all. I'd even go as far to say, that hotshot completely forgot he made this statement.

comments in green

well im there, dont you worry.
kind of disturbing that mtam thinks im an easy read, makes me doubt if im really that bad a player...
the lack of confidence in this response to mtamb, makes me think virus isn't town.
also i disagree with the logic of: "he is online --> so he has definatly read everything and is supposed to write a message" sometimes reading 3 pages and responding is not alligned with the time frame you have in mind at that moment for the game, but maybe thats just me. (also that is exactly the point why i removed that ability in whatsapp, cause people say your online so why dont you respond... so i might decide to do the same here soon, im pretty sure its a tactical adventage for mafia to disable that ability)
Fairly long winded response which is just well i dont' know. since you don't actually say why you didn't respond. you just said "somtimes" If its a tactical advantage for mafia, why would you disable it then? if your town what do you have to hide?


and besides i hate day 1, and im usually highly inactive day 1. last game proved why thats better for me (i got caught being scum that game while being active), so i generally dont comment to much day 1 since i am a bit to straight forward for some people and i always get some votes on me for speaking out what i think (or being enthousiastic )

This is incredibly false. While you may choose to be inactive day 1 (which is not good for town) You did not get caught for being "active"
You got caught not reading the rules (which prompted you to respond)
You then tried to throw dirt on storr/tambo (you said something 100% that wasn't true, so a lie now) which leads to more pressure
Then you admitted to "laying low" aka playing inactive in hopes the case would "go away" (which results in MORE pressure)
This results in your claim, which majority of town felt it was ok to have a 1 shot vig die (mafia vig)

"active" is not what you played last game. You purposely went "inactive" last game to avoid pressure. It seems the pattern may have returned this game... Hence the extended wait for you to post this game.




anyway about this game,
Ultra is pointing on a no lynch for arguments i think are valid, although i dont agree. so basicly i dont want to vote ultra.
also i disagree with hotshot reasoning of the day 1 mislynch --> does it provide information about the mafia? in my opinion, it is not that hard for mafia to split votes among several people day 1, generally day 1 a town majority decides to lynch someone, even if they target a mafia player generaly some of the mafia are on that wagon aswell, just to gain town creds, and later be able to say that they lynched that person SO they are town. so in my opinion it is possible that day 1 voting patterns give information, but it is also easily rigged.

So the discussion you have on the game so far is "i don't wanna vote on ultra" because his arguments are "valid" are mafia unable to make valid arguments? there is no further discussion from virus about ultra, just a simple 1 liner.

Secondly we have him discussing miss-lynch and the value in it. (well him not believing in the value) So it seems funny that he thinks ultras points are valid on no lynch. But doesn't agree with no lynch. Thus virus would want a lynch today, yet says there isn't much value in a miss lynched town. It seems like an odd train of thoughts. Either way, what he talks about is not really telling on what he thinks about the game. Its just his idea of what value a lynch has. So as of this point we are (what 4 days in?) and this is the only post he has, and its really that's it.....

Its honestly surprising that no one else bothered to speak up about virus...

I would have to agree with all of storr's' points here.

Ultra has been posting and contributing more recently, so I'll let his NL vote slide as a newbie (on these forums) mistake for now, and remove my vote unvote

Streaker and DD for their relative inactivity other than joining the bandwagon get FOS, but for now virus and his one post admitting he's trying to be less active day 1 so he doesn't get lynched by his activity deserves a vote and pressure. vote virus

FP 3 times... As far as Nark, some of the things he said in his posts definitely gave me a scum vibe, but other things he said sounded more towny... so I will give him a FOS but stay voting virus for now

This section is fairly important, details my main reasons of pushing virus, and what hotshot had to say about virus. Also to note, how hotshot follows me with his agreement. (no lover claim form him at this moment) Also look, he does bring up streakers name again, but doesn't do anything with it. Just points out the inactivity. hot shot doesn't have anything to add about virus as of this point. Also at this point, i've stopped pressuring virus and followed zivel to push pcm. yet he makes no mention of this. Considering this, why has hotshot not bothered to talk to me about virus? I made this case, that he felt was a damn good one, and he isn't concerned that i'm not keeping the pressure on virus?.

With some pressure, virus made a few posts... after making all his reads, he then threw out a virtually random vote on someone he thought was "slightly scummy" and then admits he didn't build a case on zivel and wasn't actually trying to get other people to vote zivel either. (Even though the leading candidates for lynch aren't ones he suspects, he doesn't try to offer much of an alternative.)

sheeped everything i stated earlier, in far less detail. He isn't even trying to interact at this point with anyone to figure out someones alignment.
viewtopic.php?f=213&t=&start=325#p4579133

I agree with aage here... ultra tried to make himself seem so important... and now basically it turns out that if we lynch him, and he's telling the truth, we basically are only lynching a vanilla towny. I still think that ultra and virus are scum, but to be on the safer side, I would prefer to lynch ultra and see what happens... best case scenario, we get scum, worst case scenario virus dies (basically a vanilla other than the 1-person bodyguard), and ultra is confirmed town. I would prefer that risk than the possible kill 2 scum (or 1 scum if they are lying and not actually lovers), or kill 2 townies if we are wrong. At least with the ultra lynch, worst case scenario we have a confirmed town and only 1 town dead. So for that reason I will unvote, vote ultra

I think his follow up here on ultra is fairly scummy. with "only losing a vt" I don't believe hotshot is trying to solve the game, or develop any cases. Just tons of agreement with what others have said, and imo not trying to figure out the game. I find most of his opinions very simple minded that go along the lines of "policy" (ultra case why ultra should be lynched) or simple as activity/ following what someone else has said (me pushing virus). he does throw a few comments out here and there as to "o this is weird/scummy" but really doesn't do anything with them, at least enough to develop his own case against someone.

I also want people to look closely at hotshots lack of discussion with other conversations about his suspects. Never does he interact with me about virus, Someone I felt was scummy and lead the case against him, and Ultra, where i was probably his biggest defender on his actions, and why he was town. yet not once does he address any defense i make of ultra. Specially near the end, when he switches back to ultra.

Well, since it looks like the vote is between AoG and DD, with ultra in a relatively distant third, as I said before I would rather an AoG lynch than a DD lynch, so I will unvote, vote AoG

When the ultra lynch is not going to happen we have his final input.

Summary of Hotshots actions day 1. 3rd to vote Ultra for policy.
3rd person to vote virus, (after crasp and myself unvoted)
100% agreed with my entire reason on virus, not once, but several times.
makes no effort to talk to me about the case, or convince me to stay with virus. he is content to let me pressure pcm, and do what ever.
Switches to Ultra, for weak reasons. he doesn't address any defense of ultra that has been given, instead is content again to follow others.
Throws plenty of doubt on peoples actions, with no follow up.
Doesn't take a stance on someone being town.

List of people he threw scum on
Ultra
storr
streaker
virus
nark
dd5
Aog

list of people hotshot town read
0

[mtamburini]

Im not gonna say much but pressure for a claim from him would be good IMO, gonna keep quiet on my thoughts on this for now but I agree with most of the things you've just brought up but I think you should look a little deeper storr.

Still no AOG yet eh?

[StorrZerg]

Im not gonna say much but pressure for a claim from him would be good IMO, gonna keep quiet on my thoughts on this for now but I agree with most of the things you've just brought up but I think you should look a little deeper storr.

Still no AOG yet eh?

Care to comment on the case / cases against myself? Or comments on streaker

[HotShot53]

you can use all the credits you want about history, but you need to explain your reads. Just simply stating "i have tenor and this guy is mafia" doesn't mean shit when we don't know your alignment.


Anarkistsdream

still doing nothing to contribute tot he game

Umm... ever hear of a joke vote? That is a weak case for even you to make storr...

FP by storr... and being as you are attacking/voting him with no reason, as you have done to others, I'd say his generalization is pretty accurate.

So, i put this as a slight defense from hotshot regarding my push on anark. Anark, yes i missed the joke, but at this point i clearly state "still doing nothing to contribute to the game" Hot shot doesn't comment on that, instead he comments on the joke side. which leads to his second comment being almost meaningless since i do give reason. The phrasing of his post, seems to indicate a strike down on my case on anark, and give credit to the generalization of my play.

The way I read your case, it was based on his joke vote, which you admit you misread. Your "still doing nothing to contribute to the game" was an off-hand comment, not your case... if you wanted to go after someone for inactivity, there were people even more inactive. So no, I don't think that was a legitimate reason at that point either.

Wow, this forum has been active, I guess having both storr and mtam in a game helps that lol. I would disagree with anark's vote against storr... that is how storr always plays, throwing any little thing against the wall, sees what sticks, how people reacts, tries to upset people, etc... not saying I like that play style, but that's what he does, so I don't get a scum read from it.

I still think ultra's trying to shut down conversation before it even started is the most scummy thing so far, so I will leave my vote there. I am not 100% opposed to a no lynch if at the end of the day everyone with pressure has legitimate sounding claims (although in that case I usually go for my default of an inactive/scummarizer), but doing it from the start has no town purpose.

Virus being absent, but visible visiting the boards could be suspicious... we'll see if the votes and the prod gets him going.

I agree with the FOS on streaker, depending on how ultra flips/claims (obviously if ultra turns out to be town, a bigger FOS on streaker than if ultra turns out to be scum)

I think that covers the major points of the day so far...

Ultra wasn't trying to shut down conversation, he kept trying to discuss why he felt no lynch was better over lynching. So his push on ultra seems a bit off from the conventional reasons of different policy. Specially since he continues to argue with ultra about why no lynch is worse than lynching.

This is his only mention of virus, before he sheeps my read. Which really isn't anything, again restating what has all ready been stated by others.

I just wanna bold this section, also to point out that hotshot did not follow up on streaker at all. I'd even go as far to say, that hotshot completely forgot he made this statement.

Saying basically "vote no lynch, we're not going to find scum until cops get results tonight" did seam like trying to shut down communication. Later, after he continued to contribute, I did move my vote off of him since his attitude changed. (Although when virus joined with him I put the vote back since I thought the combination was still scummyish, but felt the risk/reward ratio was better on an ultra lynch than a virus lynch)

And I'm sorry that I'm not here posting all day long, so yes, most of the things I say will have already been said by others before I get there... but I feel it's better to confirm/disagree with the things said than just ignore them, right?

You are correct, I did forget I made this statement 20 or so pages ago, a lot of other things came up in this game between then and now. I will have to go look back on why I made that comment and look at streaker again. (You seem to be trying to pit streaker and I against each other, implying he should go after me for your mistaken impression I was on the virus "wagon", and I should go after him from these comments a week ago... )

I would have to agree with all of storr's' points here.

Ultra has been posting and contributing more recently, so I'll let his NL vote slide as a newbie (on these forums) mistake for now, and remove my vote unvote

Streaker and DD for their relative inactivity other than joining the bandwagon get FOS, but for now virus and his one post admitting he's trying to be less active day 1 so he doesn't get lynched by his activity deserves a vote and pressure. vote virus

FP 3 times... As far as Nark, some of the things he said in his posts definitely gave me a scum vibe, but other things he said sounded more towny... so I will give him a FOS but stay voting virus for now

This section is fairly important, details my main reasons of pushing virus, and what hotshot had to say about virus. Also to note, how hotshot follows me with his agreement. (no lover claim form him at this moment) Also look, he does bring up streakers name again, but doesn't do anything with it. Just points out the inactivity. hot shot doesn't have anything to add about virus as of this point. Also at this point, i've stopped pressuring virus and followed zivel to push pcm. yet he makes no mention of this. Considering this, why has hotshot not bothered to talk to me about virus? I made this case, that he felt was a damn good one, and he isn't concerned that i'm not keeping the pressure on virus?.

Nothing more needed to be said about virus, he had only made one post at that point, so I didn't need to write a second book about it. I stated why I was voting him, he admitted he was trying to play under the radar. I didn't have any strong feelings on the pcm case either way, so I didn't have anything worth commenting on it. By making a post, I am talking to everyone, including you... I don't usually directly talk to people about a case on a third party like you do, in fact, most people don't.

With some pressure, virus made a few posts... after making all his reads, he then threw out a virtually random vote on someone he thought was "slightly scummy" and then admits he didn't build a case on zivel and wasn't actually trying to get other people to vote zivel either. (Even though the leading candidates for lynch aren't ones he suspects, he doesn't try to offer much of an alternative.)

sheeped everything i stated earlier, in far less detail. He isn't even trying to interact at this point with anyone to figure out someones alignment.
viewtopic.php?f=213&t=&start=325#p4579133

The link doesn't work, so I'm not sure exactly what you're referencing here. Again, you already wrote the book, so no need to re-write it. I get to the point without needing a page to do so... in college I always did have the problem of wondering how to fill up 10 pages when I said everything that needed saying in 5 pages.

I agree with aage here... ultra tried to make himself seem so important... and now basically it turns out that if we lynch him, and he's telling the truth, we basically are only lynching a vanilla towny. I still think that ultra and virus are scum, but to be on the safer side, I would prefer to lynch ultra and see what happens... best case scenario, we get scum, worst case scenario virus dies (basically a vanilla other than the 1-person bodyguard), and ultra is confirmed town. I would prefer that risk than the possible kill 2 scum (or 1 scum if they are lying and not actually lovers), or kill 2 townies if we are wrong. At least with the ultra lynch, worst case scenario we have a confirmed town and only 1 town dead. So for that reason I will unvote, vote ultra

I think his follow up here on ultra is fairly scummy. with "only losing a vt" I don't believe hotshot is trying to solve the game, or develop any cases. Just tons of agreement with what others have said, and imo not trying to figure out the game. I find most of his opinions very simple minded that go along the lines of "policy" (ultra case why ultra should be lynched) or simple as activity/ following what someone else has said (me pushing virus). he does throw a few comments out here and there as to "o this is weird/scummy" but really doesn't do anything with them, at least enough to develop his own case against someone.

I also want people to look closely at hotshots lack of discussion with other conversations about his suspects. Never does he interact with me about virus, Someone I felt was scummy and lead the case against him, and Ultra, where i was probably his biggest defender on his actions, and why he was town. yet not once does he address any defense i make of ultra. Specially near the end, when he switches back to ultra.

Yes, I was trying to "solve the game", I felt that ultra/virus was scummy, but since it wasn't a sure thing I felt the safest route was to lynch ultra... less risk, and virtually the same reward. It was day 1... there wasn't much to discuss other than what had already been discussed by 5 other people. I don't know what you want me to do, create things out of thin air like you do occasionally? And again, you are one of the only people who "discuss" cases with third parties directly. People usually only discuss cases with you when you ask them specifically about it, and you never tried to discuss the case with me, either. If you thought Ultra was so town, why did you want to lynch virus when he said he was ultra's lover? Obviously you couldn't even convince yourself that ultra was town.

Well, since it looks like the vote is between AoG and DD, with ultra in a relatively distant third, as I said before I would rather an AoG lynch than a DD lynch, so I will unvote, vote AoG

When the ultra lynch is not going to happen we have his final input.

Summary of Hotshots actions day 1. 3rd to vote Ultra for policy.
3rd person to vote virus, (after crasp and myself unvoted)
100% agreed with my entire reason on virus, not once, but several times.
makes no effort to talk to me about the case, or convince me to stay with virus. he is content to let me pressure pcm, and do what ever.
Switches to Ultra, for weak reasons. he doesn't address any defense of ultra that has been given, instead is content again to follow others.
Throws plenty of doubt on peoples actions, with no follow up.
Doesn't take a stance on someone being town.

List of people he threw scum on
Ultra
storr
streaker
virus
nark
dd5
Aog

list of people hotshot town read
0

I don't consider it being "third" on virus since no-one else was voting him at the time. You had moved on, but I felt that virus deserved pressure, so I voted him. Again, by posting I was engaging everyone, not just you. I'm sorry, but you're not the only one in the game, not everyone has to discuss everything with you, even if you do post the most. And again, your defense of ultra must not have been too believable since you yourself wanted him dead along with the virus lynch.

At day 1, I had no-one read as overwhelmingly town. I still don't, other than Ultra for obvious reasons, and zivel for his counterclaim. Most people are still neutral for me.

[UltrasPlot]

So... are we going to start discussing the lynch or qualitative scuminess?

Quantify your opinions please people...

Also let's check to see who aren't arguing with each other, we may be able to find some scum.

[StorrZerg]

hot shot responses

The way I read your case, it was based on his joke vote, which you admit you misread. Your "still doing nothing to contribute to the game" was an off-hand comment, not your case... if you wanted to go after someone for inactivity, there were people even more inactive. So no, I don't think that was a legitimate reason at that point either.

The evolution of the case, and saying "other people had been inactive" doesn't take away from what and how anark was playing at the time. It was a reason, you ignored it.
anamainiacks responded to your comment as well.

Yep, heard of it, but the conversation has clearly moved past the joke vote phase. There has been proper conversation going on, and to continue pushing a joke vote at this point would just be pointless and distracting.

which you never addressed.

hotshot

Saying basically "vote no lynch, we're not going to find scum until cops get results tonight" did seam like trying to shut down communication. Later, after he continued to contribute, I did move my vote off of him since his attitude changed. (Although when virus joined with him I put the vote back since I thought the combination was still scummyish, but felt the risk/reward ratio was better on an ultra lynch than a virus lynch)

And I'm sorry that I'm not here posting all day long, so yes, most of the things I say will have already been said by others before I get there... but I feel it's better to confirm/disagree with the things said than just ignore them, right?

You are correct, I did forget I made this statement 20 or so pages ago, a lot of other things came up in this game between then and now. I will have to go look back on why I made that comment and look at streaker again. (You seem to be trying to pit streaker and I against each other, implying he should go after me for your mistaken impression I was on the virus "wagon", and I should go after him from these comments a week ago... )

Ultra shutting down conversation, works for his first post for no lynch, after that no i don't buy that remake, which you made well after things started to develop.

Fine to agree/disagree with things said, problem is you haven't done any of that regarding someone being "town" its always alluding to possibility of being mafia, or "they mafia"

I'm fairly confident 1 of you is mafia, i'd even go as far to say both are mafia, so yes pitting you guys against each other isn't a bad idea. thx.

Nothing more needed to be said about virus, he had only made one post at that point, so I didn't need to write a second book about it. I stated why I was voting him, he admitted he was trying to play under the radar. I didn't have any strong feelings on the pcm case either way, so I didn't have anything worth commenting on it. By making a post, I am talking to everyone, including you... I don't usually directly talk to people about a case on a third party like you do, in fact, most people don't.

I don't think virus states he is playing under the radar this game. He says he isn't going to wagon to stay under the radar. Not sure where you are getting that bit.

The link doesn't work, so I'm not sure exactly what you're referencing here. Again, you already wrote the book, so no need to re-write it. I get to the point without needing a page to do so... in college I always did have the problem of wondering how to fill up 10 pages when I said everything that needed saying in 5 pages.

viewtopic.php?f=213&t=208245&start=325#p4579133
I think the link works now, and its obviously referencing when i attacked virus again. and where you sheeped me again.

Yes, I was trying to "solve the game", I felt that ultra/virus was scummy, but since it wasn't a sure thing I felt the safest route was to lynch ultra... less risk, and virtually the same reward. It was day 1... there wasn't much to discuss other than what had already been discussed by 5 other people. I don't know what you want me to do, create things out of thin air like you do occasionally? And again, you are one of the only people who "discuss" cases with third parties directly. People usually only discuss cases with you when you ask them specifically about it, and you never tried to discuss the case with me, either. If you thought Ultra was so town, why did you want to lynch virus when he said he was ultra's lover? Obviously you couldn't even convince yourself that ultra was town.

When you solve the game as town, you try to find town people, you stick up for them. You defend cases you think are not scummy, or why someone is pushed isn't scummy. You also push things you find scummy, and often will side with a push when you are unsure, but do it for the good of "town". You are not doing that this game. No, the push on ultra has super scummy safety lynch written all over it. Why? because its "safe" we get a "confirmed town" while losing a town, 0 risk a mafia will die. If you truly suspected either them of being scum, you wouldn't be pushing ultra, you would be pushing virus, to prevent the "special powers" ultra would be getting. And even if that isn't on your mind, the fact that ultra WANTS to be lynched, is heavy indication you SHOULDN'T"T be lynching him if he is any alignment. (in this game that is and these circumstances. )

No, i don't expect you to make things up, but when you are town you tend to interject and converse about topics. You put your opinion forth, with out having to be called on as well. Even last game, you played 3rd party cult recruiter, and you played far more town than you are playing now. Again, policy dictated why virus was the better lynch over ultra. I did not push that as what i wanted to do with the lynch for that day. You made no remarks about anyone town reading ultra, and why they did. The only comments you ever made, happened to be on why ultra was scum, and if you agreed, or statin why you thought he was scum.

I don't consider it being "third" on virus since no-one else was voting him at the time. You had moved on, but I felt that virus deserved pressure, so I voted him. Again, by posting I was engaging everyone, not just you. I'm sorry, but you're not the only one in the game, not everyone has to discuss everything with you, even if you do post the most. And again, your defense of ultra must not have been too believable since you yourself wanted him dead along with the virus lynch.

At day 1, I had no-one read as overwhelmingly town. I still don't, other than Ultra for obvious reasons, and zivel for his counterclaim. Most people are still neutral for me.

Yes, i consider you the 3rd to vote virus, and you never at any point had been the "leader" of "lynch virus". Even when no one else was voting when you placed your vote, mine was still there invisibly. my actions and my words made it so. You should reread your town games day 1, see what you do so you can mimic it better when you role scum. Might help you. Even when i stated virus over ultra, that was still in defense of ultra. Since logically the ultra push was the worst thing one could do since it provided a safe nest for scum to lie in, as well as the least amount of information learned moving on to day 2. I was town reading and defending ultra, long before he claimed lover, which was still never addressed by you. So your excuse is invalid.

well clearly you haven't read anyone as town, but when you are town you do state your opinion about cases, and interject far more often with people. Even if you don't think that person is town, you still will state if you think that case is good or not. I made a read on zivel, detailing why i thought he was town, do you have a comment on that then? why didn't you comment on that or state that you thought zivel was townie day 1....

[UltrasPlot]

gonna throw a vote out there bc he disappeared again
Vote Army of GOD

[UltrasPlot]

Also can we stop talking about virus he's dead and confirmed townie o_O

[StorrZerg]

Also can we stop talking about virus he's dead and confirmed townie o_O

Nope

[Zivel]

Also can we stop talking about virus he's dead and confirmed townie o_O

Nope

I agree here, not talking about the one of the only two deaths in the game so far... and the one killed at night means we must talk about it. That is where all the information to be gleaned is from.

I like your analyse Storr, it makes for an interesting read. But why did you focus on just Hotshot? Is it because he was the mafia third vote in two wagons? (who was third on AoG?) I mean I am sure you could find a whole lot of peeps who are sheeping along and not contributing much. Personally the ones who have given mafia are more useful than the ones that have only given town.

I am quite distracted and may not be able to get anything of substance down for a couple of days as I have a big exam coming up and then drinks after to celebrate the end of my uni year.

[StorrZerg]

Focused because strike mentioned him, and his overall lack of presents in the 1st dat

[UltrasPlot]

guys lets stop arguing about generics. we need to find 3 peeps we wanna get rid of today / tonight. mtam is a 'safe' shot, dd is too. but who do we lynch?

show: pl

Neutral =/= 3rd party, just no read. I'm tired right now so I don't feel like typing up justification, if you need any in specific quote and ask.

Also dd could potentially be bulletproof sk (3) and mtam could be a bg on dd, just like virus w/ me. Although I consider this somewhat unlikely, please consider.

People that I labeled silent, please contribute something soon or you will be subject to lynch.

[strike wolf]

Ultra. I am fairly certain you are town. As town it would be beneficial if you actually tried to read and follow along with what is actually going on .

[UltrasPlot]

am rather tired. will post full reads tomorrow hopefully. just throwin it out there for conversations on the silents

[StorrZerg]

Vote hotshot53

yeah, and so should you!

[HotShot53]

To save time with another long post, my responses will be in the quote in green

hot shot responses

The way I read your case, it was based on his joke vote, which you admit you misread. Your "still doing nothing to contribute to the game" was an off-hand comment, not your case... if you wanted to go after someone for inactivity, there were people even more inactive. So no, I don't think that was a legitimate reason at that point either.

The evolution of the case, and saying "other people had been inactive" doesn't take away from what and how anark was playing at the time. It was a reason, you ignored it.
anamainiacks responded to your comment as well.

Yep, heard of it, but the conversation has clearly moved past the joke vote phase. There has been proper conversation going on, and to continue pushing a joke vote at this point would just be pointless and distracting.

which you never addressed.

That wasn't your case, at the time nark wasn't any more absent than half the people, so no, I didn't consider it a legitimate reason when combined with your misread of the joke. If I remember, this was still early in day 1, and although some people had skipped the joke vote phase, it wasn't completely out of place. Note I'm not saying Nark is town, by the end of day 1 I got more scum vibes from him, but I still think that for the time the case was based on a misconception and baseless.

hotshot

Saying basically "vote no lynch, we're not going to find scum until cops get results tonight" did seam like trying to shut down communication. Later, after he continued to contribute, I did move my vote off of him since his attitude changed. (Although when virus joined with him I put the vote back since I thought the combination was still scummyish, but felt the risk/reward ratio was better on an ultra lynch than a virus lynch)

And I'm sorry that I'm not here posting all day long, so yes, most of the things I say will have already been said by others before I get there... but I feel it's better to confirm/disagree with the things said than just ignore them, right?

You are correct, I did forget I made this statement 20 or so pages ago, a lot of other things came up in this game between then and now. I will have to go look back on why I made that comment and look at streaker again. (You seem to be trying to pit streaker and I against each other, implying he should go after me for your mistaken impression I was on the virus "wagon", and I should go after him from these comments a week ago... )

Ultra shutting down conversation, works for his first post for no lynch, after that no i don't buy that remake, which you made well after things started to develop.

Fine to agree/disagree with things said, problem is you haven't done any of that regarding someone being "town" its always alluding to possibility of being mafia, or "they mafia"

I'm fairly confident 1 of you is mafia, i'd even go as far to say both are mafia, so yes pitting you guys against each other isn't a bad idea. thx.



Just because Ultra had made a few posts since then (after he was pressured), didn't remove the fact that he had made the original post. At the time, I didn't have a bigger scum read on anyone else. And as I said, I didn't have any strong town reads on anyone, and since majority is town, I don't usually list everyone not on my potential scum list and say they are potential town. Scum are the rare ones, that's why we're looking for them.

Nothing more needed to be said about virus, he had only made one post at that point, so I didn't need to write a second book about it. I stated why I was voting him, he admitted he was trying to play under the radar. I didn't have any strong feelings on the pcm case either way, so I didn't have anything worth commenting on it. By making a post, I am talking to everyone, including you... I don't usually directly talk to people about a case on a third party like you do, in fact, most people don't.

I don't think virus states he is playing under the radar this game. He says he isn't going to wagon to stay under the radar. Not sure where you are getting that bit.

I voted him before he made that comment. At the time I voted him, he had only made one post, where he said posting got him caught day 1 as scum last time, and so he didn't like to post much day 1.

The link doesn't work, so I'm not sure exactly what you're referencing here. Again, you already wrote the book, so no need to re-write it. I get to the point without needing a page to do so... in college I always did have the problem of wondering how to fill up 10 pages when I said everything that needed saying in 5 pages.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5#p4579133
I think the link works now, and its obviously referencing when i attacked virus again. and where you sheeped me again.

I wasn't sheeping you, in fact, you didn't vote virus until the post after mine, so maybe you were sheeping me? lol

Yes, I was trying to "solve the game", I felt that ultra/virus was scummy, but since it wasn't a sure thing I felt the safest route was to lynch ultra... less risk, and virtually the same reward. It was day 1... there wasn't much to discuss other than what had already been discussed by 5 other people. I don't know what you want me to do, create things out of thin air like you do occasionally? And again, you are one of the only people who "discuss" cases with third parties directly. People usually only discuss cases with you when you ask them specifically about it, and you never tried to discuss the case with me, either. If you thought Ultra was so town, why did you want to lynch virus when he said he was ultra's lover? Obviously you couldn't even convince yourself that ultra was town.

When you solve the game as town, you try to find town people, you stick up for them. You defend cases you think are not scummy, or why someone is pushed isn't scummy. You also push things you find scummy, and often will side with a push when you are unsure, but do it for the good of "town". You are not doing that this game. No, the push on ultra has super scummy safety lynch written all over it. Why? because its "safe" we get a "confirmed town" while losing a town, 0 risk a mafia will die. If you truly suspected either them of being scum, you wouldn't be pushing ultra, you would be pushing virus, to prevent the "special powers" ultra would be getting. And even if that isn't on your mind, the fact that ultra WANTS to be lynched, is heavy indication you SHOULDN'T"T be lynching him if he is any alignment. (in this game that is and these circumstances. )

No, i don't expect you to make things up, but when you are town you tend to interject and converse about topics. You put your opinion forth, with out having to be called on as well. Even last game, you played 3rd party cult recruiter, and you played far more town than you are playing now. Again, policy dictated why virus was the better lynch over ultra. I did not push that as what i wanted to do with the lynch for that day. You made no remarks about anyone town reading ultra, and why they did. The only comments you ever made, happened to be on why ultra was scum, and if you agreed, or statin why you thought he was scum.

There were no cases on anyone I thought was town... DD I leaned slightly town, which is why I went for AoG rather than DD in the end yesterday, but I am not convinced he is town and am 50-50 on him as of now. And there isn't much point on defending people who have no case on them...

I completely disagree with you on the town move to make on ultra/virus situation. As I said, the ultra lynch has significantly less risk if we were wrong, but the virus lynch almost no additional benefit (can always lynch the remaining one the next day if we were right)

I did put my opinions forth without being called on. I don't think anyone specifically asked for my opinion at all yesterday, but I gave it a few times on all of the pertinent issues of the day

I don't consider it being "third" on virus since no-one else was voting him at the time. You had moved on, but I felt that virus deserved pressure, so I voted him. Again, by posting I was engaging everyone, not just you. I'm sorry, but you're not the only one in the game, not everyone has to discuss everything with you, even if you do post the most. And again, your defense of ultra must not have been too believable since you yourself wanted him dead along with the virus lynch.

At day 1, I had no-one read as overwhelmingly town. I still don't, other than Ultra for obvious reasons, and zivel for his counterclaim. Most people are still neutral for me.

Yes, i consider you the 3rd to vote virus, and you never at any point had been the "leader" of "lynch virus". Even when no one else was voting when you placed your vote, mine was still there invisibly. my actions and my words made it so. You should reread your town games day 1, see what you do so you can mimic it better when you role scum. Might help you. Even when i stated virus over ultra, that was still in defense of ultra. Since logically the ultra push was the worst thing one could do since it provided a safe nest for scum to lie in, as well as the least amount of information learned moving on to day 2. I was town reading and defending ultra, long before he claimed lover, which was still never addressed by you. So your excuse is invalid.

well clearly you haven't read anyone as town, but when you are town you do state your opinion about cases, and interject far more often with people. Even if you don't think that person is town, you still will state if you think that case is good or not. I made a read on zivel, detailing why i thought he was town, do you have a comment on that then? why didn't you comment on that or state that you thought zivel was townie day 1....

I'm sorry, I can't see when you vote things invisibly lol. Sort of like how you made up this case on me, but for whatever reason waited until a future post to actually vote me... not sure why you are doing that.

Since I am town this game, I guess I should re-read yesterday and copy it in future games so I can point back to this one in the future lol

So, explain to me, how is advocating a virus lynch, knowing that he is ultra's lover, a defense of ultra?

I have commented and interjected on every case and discussion that has been made so far, much more than some others have done. I didn't defend zivel because there was no real case made on him, everyone agreed he was town, so there was no need to "defend" him.

[HotShot53]

guys lets stop arguing about generics. we need to find 3 peeps we wanna get rid of today / tonight. mtam is a 'safe' shot, dd is too. but who do we lynch?

show: pl

Neutral =/= 3rd party, just no read. I'm tired right now so I don't feel like typing up justification, if you need any in specific quote and ask.

Also dd could potentially be bulletproof sk (3) and mtam could be a bg on dd, just like virus w/ me. Although I consider this somewhat unlikely, please consider.

People that I labeled silent, please contribute something soon or you will be subject to lynch.

Before you say mtam is a safe shot, you and/or mtam should confirm with the mod that he will revive someone before being shot... if your shot goes through first, then you could prevent a verified towny from being revived. I think mtam's lack of interest in the game is because he is as he says he is, and knows he won't be around much longer anyway... a scum mtam would more likely be a lot more active throwing around cases like stor is doing.

[StorrZerg]

That wasn't your case, at the time nark wasn't any more absent than half the people, so no, I didn't consider it a legitimate reason when combined with your misread of the joke. If I remember, this was still early in day 1, and although some people had skipped the joke vote phase, it wasn't completely out of place. Note I'm not saying Nark is town, by the end of day 1 I got more scum vibes from him, but I still think that for the time the case was based on a misconception and baseless.

yet, you went right out the gates with a serious vote, and you know im fairly serious out of the gates. for time frame reference, this was about 24 hours after game start when you countered my push. At the time, you didn't know it was a misread of a joke, so thats an invalid reason. Not to mention the case wasn't off his activity, it was off contributions.

Just because Ultra had made a few posts since then (after he was pressured), didn't remove the fact that he had made the original post. At the time, I didn't have a bigger scum read on anyone else. And as I said, I didn't have any strong town reads on anyone, and since majority is town, I don't usually list everyone not on my potential scum list and say they are potential town. Scum are the rare ones, that's why we're looking for them.

your right in thats not something you normally do, but you usually interject with opinions on someone. Specially if something doesn't seem scummy, and they might be town. Again, there was plenty at the time for you to follow up on, (my anark remark which you ignored) or any of the other conversations that had been going on.

I voted him before he made that comment. At the time I voted him, he had only made one post, where he said posting got him caught day 1 as scum last time, and so he didn't like to post much day 1.

I'll give you some leeway on this.. You still phrased things incorrectly from what happened, and used phrasing "under the radar" which was what he claimed last game.

I wasn't sheeping you, in fact, you didn't vote virus until the post after mine, so maybe you were sheeping me? lol

Regardless for when i voted, i made the case, you sheeped. and agreed with the first post against virus i made. I had all ready voted virus at that point, and had switched my vote to pcm the same page you then voted virus. no you are just trying to be coy

There were no cases on anyone I thought was town... DD I leaned slightly town, which is why I went for AoG rather than DD in the end yesterday, but I am not convinced he is town and am 50-50 on him as of now. And there isn't much point on defending people who have no case on them...

I completely disagree with you on the town move to make on ultra/virus situation. As I said, the ultra lynch has significantly less risk if we were wrong, but the virus lynch almost no additional benefit (can always lynch the remaining one the next day if we were right)

I did put my opinions forth without being called on. I don't think anyone specifically asked for my opinion at all yesterday, but I gave it a few times on all of the pertinent issues of the day

No cases? not the one on Zivel, not the one on streaker, not the one on pcm, not the one on myself.... You can't be serious with this statement to state something like that. And thats a lie, that you find no point in defending people you don't know their alignment. You historically have defended accusations against people when you don't agree with the accusations. That has not happened this game at any point.

I know, you didn't get much attention yesterday, hence why it felt that you had no presence in the game yesterday. You had 0 impact on which lynch was picked at the end of the day. And as of today, the majority of people who have spoken of you have you at null since they don't really know anything about you. This is not your town playstyle to be this distant from conversation.

I'm sorry, I can't see when you vote things invisibly lol. Sort of like how you made up this case on me, but for whatever reason waited until a future post to actually vote me... not sure why you are doing that.

Since I am town this game, I guess I should re-read yesterday and copy it in future games so I can point back to this one in the future lol

My vote had been removed from virus, the same page you voted. + you had even quoted my entire case against virus with "agree" and voted. So yes, ill state you take no credit for being "first" and you cannot claim "i did not wagon cause i was first" The post is clearly not made up, as a few people have all ready commented that i might have something worthy of merit in this case against you. And does it really matter when i voted? Is it alignment indicative that i delayed the vote on you? What if i just forgot to place the vote, is that scummy? I'll give you a hint to all, doesn't matter since it means nothing of alignment.

yeah, your not town.

So, explain to me, how is advocating a virus lynch, knowing that he is ultra's lover, a defense of ultra?

By presenting the logical choice of what you should do, it makes you consider the situation of ultra/virus leading to the conclusion that lynching either of them is not the right choice for day 1. Factor also in what mafia would rather do, mafia would always lynch ultra in that situation. Safe lynch, removes a townie, left with just a rambling confirmed with "no powers"

I have commented and interjected on every case and discussion that has been made so far, much more than some others have done. I didn't defend zivel because there was no real case made on him, everyone agreed he was town, so there was no need to "defend" him.

No, you can't claim you had a town read on zivel, when you made posts like this. I would even go as far to say, that this is obvious why you didn't defend zivel, because you left him open as a scum option. (post was on the 7th) Also the last time you talk about zivel.

This is the main thing I can't understand, is why a scum DD would come out the way he did... as mtam says, by not coming out then ultra would probably be lynched, and then if he came up town (which a scum DD would know), then zivel would have pressure and might get lynched also. The only way I can see a scum zivel coming out is if ultra is also scum, and he was doing it to either A. protect ultra from an almost certain lynch or B. gain town cred if ultra did get lynched anyway. For that reason, I still think lynching ultra is a better move than zivel, because I can't imagine why a scum zivel would come out if ultra were town, but ultra could be scum with zivel being town.

This isn't you concluding the alignment of anyone, just discussing what if this? what if that. You have no conclusion in this, just stating possible alignments of people, against others for when they claimed.

If you did agree with town reads on zivel, made by whom ever, you would have commented on them. (as a townie) You didn't, because as scum you don't want to give him more credit than need be, you would rather keep as much scum options open.

[StorrZerg]

So yeah.. if anyone wants to help get the gears rolling for this game that would be great.
slap some votes down, we don't have to wait 9 days then panic on the 10th figuring out what to do..

[Army of GOD]

sorry, was busy the last few days.


anywho, one thing that jumped out to me, at least on this page, was ultra. I know he's probably town because virus, his lover, ended up town, but I find it funny that D1 he advocates for a no lynch because he doesn't want to kill any townies by accident yet today, now that he has 2 shots, is prepared to go all gangbusters when honestly I feel like it's hard to be so much more confident in your reads than they were in D1.

As per the whole Storr/hotshot spat, I'm leaning Storr is town and hotshot scum. I thought Storr's best point was how hotshot had pegged 7 people as scum at one point or another yet had 0 town reads. Just seems like an odd play, always trying to find scum and not town.

one thing that's been on my mind is a class of players who seem to have been laying low so far this game and it's been confirmed by searching a post count:
Streaker - 30 posts
Hotshot - 22
Whatsausage - 24
crasp - 33
TFO - 14 (granted, he was a replacement, but there has been a lot of silence from him otherwise)

I know quantity isn't everything but it seems like these 4 have been riding under the radar D1. Most of the other players have something like 50+ posts while also adding a lot to the conversation. And I know there are two other with low post counts (pcm and aage...both with 20 something posts) but I thought they had more content in their posts than those 5.

I'm gonna vote hotshot. I agree with Storr's argument on him, he's been relatively quiet up until pressure started being put on him and was the last two jump on the wagon to lynch me.

[StorrZerg]

Just to follow up with post count, i'm sure the mod has well over 40 posts... and he is the mod...