CYOC: TDT [6/22] Game Over! FREEDOM!!!

[Nebuchadnezer]

What I meant is that Rodion is one of the best players here at CC. He's very useful when he is on our side. Sure there's a chance he's scum/3rd party. But it's D1, we can get him another day if he is against us. Losing him D1 is losing one of our top players in this game. Something I'm not comfortable with.

I would say an argument for the reverse could be made. As a skilled player bringing a case against him later in the game would likely be difficult barring some actions implicating him. Trying on Day 1 when standards are lower might be the best way to catch a scum Rodion.

First to the part that I didn't quote, leave active games alone. You know better than to discuss them.

Now to the part I did. Rodion is too skilled to kill D1. I am not saying let's let him live until the end, but to kill him D1 with NO proof or anything is just anti-town play. To even suggest doing it, that's not like you if we want to begin bringing metas up already.

I have been gone from CC long enough to be allowed to say that I am going to be changing something up a bit. Everyone does it. Do you want scum to be able to use my meta against me if I did not mention I am switching it around a tad?

Unvote, Vote spiesr

This vote is not because of you against me, it's actually for your comment when I said let Rodion live past D1 at least. That part I do not find to be pro-town. Right now we need the vets working together. If you do not mind a vet dying. Well, I'm all hands for eliminating you if you wish to keep down the mindset of letting Rodion die so easily.

OMGUS vote. Nice. I've been following on my phone this weekend, so I haven't posted anything. The horse game is a distraction, but it is important to those five and possibly town. I would hate to lose a power role to random luck. The question is, how do we avoid killing a pr without role fishing?

For now, OMGUS vote always catches my eye...vote jak111

[pancakemix]

An update on the activity watch: TFO has only made one (content free) post thus far, back on Thursday. I am of the opinion that requesting a prod is more appropriate than a vote in this situation, as I don't think it is deliberate scummarning.

Noted.

With 3 days to go, deadline is clearly looming. Now as I understand the rules (well rule 7) that a lynch will occur if there is a majority of those who vote. So if 10 players vote it takes 6 to lynch. MOD can you comment?

I'm not 100% what you're asking. Regardless, you should scroll down to Rule 13.

[Jmac1026]

Apologies for being inactive for the past couple of days. Was busy with work and Mother's Day. Unvote.

I'm not a huge fan of this horse game, because it basically means the least active will be unhorsed. I prefer the current version to how it was previously though. A basically free day kill, with no downsides? Yeah, I couldn't see scum abusing that at all.

FOS on Jak. Major OMGUS vote, and voting no lynch. Neither a very good reasons to keep you around Jak. Who does everyone prefer to be That's my Horse'd before the end of the day?

[jak111]

Ignoring Nebuch's skimming.

10. Clues or game information may be hidden in the text, but nothing that would give away a player's identity.

This is the best clue we have for D1. So time to start hunting through all the clues.

21 entrants. 7 threes. A perfect number for the third time around.

Someone suggested 3 groups of 7 or 7 groups of 3.

I think this is a hint back towards the rules.

13. Each game ‘day’ will last SEVEN 24 hour days.

14. Similarly, each game ‘night’ will not last more than THREE 24 hour days.

7 threes... Remember the killswitch roles from the very first game? I and Saf had to kill each other by D5 and then it was ended? Well.. what if this time it's 7 days. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.. but that's the only other spot I see 7 and 3 together pretty much right now.

FP'd by Jmac. Another who skimmed. Read my reason, not my vote.

[kgb007]

I also support spieser's argument that just because Rodion is a good player, that shouldn't make him a D1 target.

I understand what Spiesr and Jak are saying. But just like any other player, experienced or not, shouldn't we judge Rodion based on his comments from today and not on experience, otherwise there's probably 10 people if not more that fall into that category.

If someone has a legit case to be made against Rodion, I'd listen but to initially target him or anybody else because he's experienced is wrong IMO. Besides he's already got a 1/5 chance to be killed anyway...

[The question is, how do we avoid killing a pr without role fishing?

Now that's a great question - I don't think the outsiders can really hope to control the horse game other than to promise punishment the following day for not adhering to the consensus. A lot can change in a day so I don't know how much that threat will influence the outcome. Mass claims from the 5 is less than ideal so would you rather have them "roll the dice" so to speak and hope the horse game doesn't claim a PR

[Iron Butterfly]

Neb said: "OMGUS vote. Nice. I've been following on my phone this weekend, so I haven't posted anything. The horse game is a distraction, but it is important to those five and possibly town. I would hate to lose a power role to random luck. The question is, how do we avoid killing a pr without role fishing?"

The simple fact of the matter is no matter who dies for Town a PR will be lost in the sense that a role has been created for each submitted charachter. This is not a VT game.

Neb that is an interesting choice of words. Why would you say "possibly Town" when we have no idea how players are chosen? We have no idea how many factions are in game? We have no idea if this is a game device the Mod has implemented or one that is player driven.

To say that the game is important to the 5 players and possibly Town makes it sound as if the two are separate from who is involved. If the players are picked at random then the results would be important to all involved as any faction could be involved.

But it is important to those five and possibly town

The weekend is over. Please explain this wording.

[DoomYoshi]

Jak111 I know people use meta gaming a lot and thats why I find your post saying you are going to change your meta up odd. Why put it out there? It feels like you are anticipating pressure and giving yourself a way to distance yourself from your meta (a reason to act odd), or an excuse to not scum hunt as much as you normally do.

Jak has a history of being a day 1 lynch target. I think he is just saying he is hoping to make it past day 2. In the past it's been easy for scum to rip holes in him.

[DoomYoshi]

@Nark: I rarely read the rules. Unless I'm doing a Newbie game, I don't even post rules. I know what most of them are. If there is something interesting, I am sure another player will point it out.

[Rodion]

Will post later today.

Virus, that's MY horse!

[HotShot53]

I have to agree with jak111 that lynching rodion just because he is an experienced player doesn't make much sense.

However... saying "ignore my meta" before anyone even brings it up sounds very scummy to me, and combined with the no lynch vote followed by an OMGUS vote pushes me over the top to vote jak111. It's not much to go on, but it's as good or better than most day 1 cases... and I don't see any other cases worthy of consideration yet.

[jak111]

I have to agree with jak111 that lynching rodion just because he is an experienced player doesn't make much sense.

However... saying "ignore my meta" before anyone even brings it up sounds very scummy to me, and combined with the no lynch vote followed by an OMGUS vote pushes me over the top to vote jak111. It's not much to go on, but it's as good or better than most day 1 cases... and I don't see any other cases worthy of consideration yet.

Again, reread the reason why I voted. People are overusing the OMGUS vote thing. OMGUS is when you vote someone for the only fact that they are voting you. I have explained why I am voting him back. Because of what he said about my thoughts on letting Rodion live through D1. Rodion is a good player, the only ones who want him dead early on when we know absolutely nothing are usually scum.

So I count 2 votes on me that are by people who are not using the word OMGUS correctly. I can link you to the terms if you'd like. In fact I will.

Rules & Terms of Mafia

OMGUS - Oh My God! You Suck!. Usually used in the context of an 'OMGUS vote' - i.e. a vote for someone purely on the basis that they are voting for you.

[HotShot53]

Again, reread the reason why I voted. People are overusing the OMGUS vote thing. OMGUS is when you vote someone for the only fact that they are voting you. I have explained why I am voting him back. Because of what he said about my thoughts on letting Rodion live through D1. Rodion is a good player, the only ones who want him dead early on when we know absolutely nothing are usually scum.

So I count 2 votes on me that are by people who are not using the word OMGUS correctly. I can link you to the terms if you'd like. In fact I will.

Rules & Terms of Mafia

OMGUS - Oh My God! You Suck!. Usually used in the context of an 'OMGUS vote' - i.e. a vote for someone purely on the basis that they are voting for you.

What I meant is that Rodion is one of the best players here at CC. He's very useful when he is on our side. Sure there's a chance he's scum/3rd party. But it's D1, we can get him another day if he is against us. Losing him D1 is losing one of our top players in this game. Something I'm not comfortable with.

I would say an argument for the reverse could be made. As a skilled player bringing a case against him later in the game would likely be difficult barring some actions implicating him. Trying on Day 1 when standards are lower might be the best way to catch a scum Rodion.

I don't see anywhere he is saying "let's go lynch Rodion!" All he says is that letting Rodion live solely because he is experienced isn't good if he actually is scum. He didn't vote rodion though, he voted you. So to my view, your reasoning on voting him is flawed, and it looks more like an OMGUS vote to me.

[virus90]

tailgunner thats my horse !

[Zivel]

Vote: Jak111

You have not made me anymore comfortable with you reasoning, its day one and the case is thin, but its the best case we have at the moment.

[sheepofdumb]

I have to agree with jak111 that lynching rodion just because he is an experienced player doesn't make much sense.

However... saying "ignore my meta" before anyone even brings it up sounds very scummy to me, and combined with the no lynch vote followed by an OMGUS vote pushes me over the top to vote jak111. It's not much to go on, but it's as good or better than most day 1 cases... and I don't see any other cases worthy of consideration yet.

Again, reread the reason why I voted. People are overusing the OMGUS vote thing. OMGUS is when you vote someone for the only fact that they are voting you. I have explained why I am voting him back. Because of what he said about my thoughts on letting Rodion live through D1. Rodion is a good player, the only ones who want him dead early on when we know absolutely nothing are usually scum.

So I count 2 votes on me that are by people who are not using the word OMGUS correctly. I can link you to the terms if you'd like. In fact I will.

Rules & Terms of Mafia

OMGUS - Oh My God! You Suck!. Usually used in the context of an 'OMGUS vote' - i.e. a vote for someone purely on the basis that they are voting for you.

Even though you are technically right it's a better play to convince others to vote on the person who just voted you. It looks like you made an OMGUS vote with an excuse tacked on.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Neb said: "OMGUS vote. Nice. I've been following on my phone this weekend, so I haven't posted anything. The horse game is a distraction, but it is important to those five and possibly town. I would hate to lose a power role to random luck. The question is, how do we avoid killing a pr without role fishing?"

The simple fact of the matter is no matter who dies for Town a PR will be lost in the sense that a role has been created for each submitted charachter. This is not a VT game.

Neb that is an interesting choice of words. Why would you say "possibly Town" when we have no idea how players are chosen? We have no idea how many factions are in game? We have no idea if this is a game device the Mod has implemented or one that is player driven.

To say that the game is important to the 5 players and possibly Town makes it sound as if the two are separate from who is involved. If the players are picked at random then the results would be important to all involved as any faction could be involved.

But it is important to those five and possibly town

The weekend is over. Please explain this wording.

Well, honestly, this game is such a distraction from the normal role we have of finding mafia. While it is interesting and a fun twist, I don't care one way or the other because you can't get any kind of read from the randomness of this side show. The only reason I care, is because I don't want to lose a town PR...Yes, I'm aware we are all "special roles" but come on, some are better than other...look at the past CYOC games. I would rather keep the "bullet proof town cop/vigilante" than the "one-shot town hider".

I see how the game is important as either town dies, or doesn't...but there is nothing I can do to change that fact. I have no way to change who dies. it's up to those 5...thus I lose a little bit of interest in really caring what happens as someone's fate is already sealed.

I don't know if that makes sense to you, but that's what I was getting at...I have no input or control over the horse side show game, therefore I don't really care.

[Anarkistsdream]

I can't help but agree with Neb, here... I wouldn't give a shit either on any day I wasn't on the chopping block.

But, it is terrifying to think you may die because you can't check the game every few hours. So I do care. I finally have a chance in one of these games to make a difference and maybe help after so many vanilla townies that it is all that matters to me this day, is to make sure I survive until night... Those of us on the chopping block have to feel this way... This game will reduce the five players to primarily- if not only- caring about who doesn't have a horse. Hopefully it does not happen every day. It feels like Big Brother on CBS...

As for the few potshots I have seen people take at me for not posting... I didn't in either game I am in. I can't help I was inactive. It should not continue. I should be able to post once a day. That is better than a LOT of players. I can only say that real life trumps this game any day, and please tell me you all feel the same way.

As far as contriubting to what is going on right now in the game... I had a thought... What if the horse group each day is made up of people from each faction? Group one, two, three, so on, with third party loners being tossed in the group as they cycle through... Does anybody think that is a viable option? I made mention of it in my last post, but nobody paid attention to it, apparently. Or I didn't make myself clear.

[Rodion]

Zivel, only you have a problem with me mentioning it. I mention it so that there's no way a mafia can say "Oh, you changed your meta, you should be lynched". No, they will have to try another tactic this time now that everyone knows I wont be playing my exact self this time around. In a big game like this I should be allowed to switch it up some without it being scummy, like you're calling it now.

The issue here is that you only announced your meta change after you got your role PM, so it's not valid.

For instance, when I (somewhat) successfully changed my meta to "not contributing much during the first 2-3 days", I announced it before I got my role PM (I'm referring to another game, I think Battle of Bulge).

I don't think that screams scum, but the flak you're getting for it is to be reasonably expected (especially considering weaker cases tend to be accepted on D1).

Regarding the horse game, I think it's just a random event similar to the ones in Memebase mafia. I'm guessing D2 will have a different event/game. While I'm at that, I'm guessing the participants were chosen at random (either "pure random" or "let's randomize 4 townies and 1 mafia"). I'd rather not act based on such assumptions, though, since anything can be expected from a CYOC game.

Unvote

Edoc could use some posting...

[jak111]

Zivel, only you have a problem with me mentioning it. I mention it so that there's no way a mafia can say "Oh, you changed your meta, you should be lynched". No, they will have to try another tactic this time now that everyone knows I wont be playing my exact self this time around. In a big game like this I should be allowed to switch it up some without it being scummy, like you're calling it now.

The issue here is that you only announced your meta change after you got your role PM, so it's not valid.

For instance, when I (somewhat) successfully changed my meta to "not contributing much during the first 2-3 days", I announced it before I got my role PM (I'm referring to another game, I think Battle of Bulge).

I don't think that screams scum, but the flak you're getting for it is to be reasonably expected (especially considering weaker cases tend to be accepted on D1).

Regarding the horse game, I think it's just a random event similar to the ones in Memebase mafia. I'm guessing D2 will have a different event/game. While I'm at that, I'm guessing the participants were chosen at random (either "pure random" or "let's randomize 4 townies and 1 mafia"). I'd rather not act based on such assumptions, though, since anything can be expected from a CYOC game.

Unvote

Edoc could use some posting...

Yeah, I suppose you're right. But it's 4 votes. At least 2 confusing OMGUS with me voting spiesr due to something he said. It's not that he placed or didn't place his vote down on Rodion, he does not have to. What spiesr said basically is he does not care if Rodion dies in the horse game. I do. Out of the 5 in the game I see him as the most useful to town.

Anyway, with 4 votes, they'd require 6 more for any real pressure on me it's a shrug off wagon. Though surprisingly how quickly some hopped onto it though. My case against spiesr is being extremely picky as is all D1 cases. I'm of the mindset of keep the players you know will be valuable scum-hunters around for the first day or two. He's not.

Let's look at the quick wagon.

1st vote: Spiesr ~ Votes me because I mention changing my meta and he has a problem with me saying scum can't use it against me now. First vote, not a bandwagon vote.

2nd vote: Nebuch ~ Misreads my vote as OMGUS.

3rd vote: HotShot ~ Sheeps both spiesr's and Nebuch's reason.

4th vote: Zivel ~ Claiming "Best case we have atm"

Spiesr and Nebuch can't really count as bandwagons, they got their own reason. But HotShot and Zivel both sheep.

Once the OMGUS is counted out due to the invalid claim of it (It was not an OMGUS as I described a bit at the beginning of this post). We are left with only one real thing against me. Mentioning that I am going to change my META and that scum can now not use it against me because I have proclaimed it early on.

So we have both HotShot and Zivel claiming it's a good case when all it is is me saying I will change it up a bit and be different than I usually was over a year ago.

[Rodion]

Yeah, I suppose you're right. But it's 4 votes. At least 2 confusing OMGUS with me voting spiesr due to something he said. It's not that he placed or didn't place his vote down on Rodion, he does not have to. What spiesr said basically is he does not care if Rodion dies in the horse game. I do. Out of the 5 in the game I see him as the most useful to town.

Compliments appreciated.

I think spiesr's take on me getting pressured/dying/living is purely academic. It falls on the "should a 'good player' be protected in case he's town or pressured in the offchance he is mafia?" category. I'd propose that be outsourced to general discussions subforum while we keep focus on the 2 people potentially getting killed by thursday.

[jonty125]

13. Each game ‘day’ will last SEVEN 24 hour days. I will remind everyone if the deadline is near, and to look toward voting. If no majority is reached at the end of the deadline if made, the player with the most votes will be lynched and the game will enter into the night phase. In the event of a tie, the lynchee will be determined by a 24-hour final ballot in which every player casts a final (no changes) vote for ANY player. If there is still a tie, a runoff ballot will be held between the two or more who tied. The deadline may be extended upon request.

So it appears to me, that jak + horseless is going to die as things stand. I'm going to vote No Lynch, two deaths on D1, is not going to help us. Particularly with the horse game been random, and lets say we get someone to claim, we need to get no lynch back in the majority in order to keep them alive, which, I doubt we can do in 2 days.

[Zivel]

4th vote: Zivel ~ Claiming "Best case we have atm"

So we have both HotShot and Zivel claiming it's a good case when all it is is me saying I will change it up a bit and be different than I usually was over a year ago.

You appear to have the timeline wrong, I am sure this is just an oversight on your part.

So being a good player excuses him from interegation?

And why do you need to mention that you will be changing your meta? I don't know your meta but to me it sounds like an excuse for you to appear differently to those who do. You say several times that you are active and pot stirrer and then you say you are going to play differently? So no pot stirring from you or what?

I was the first to question you about what I thought were unusual comments that needed investigation.

You know what Jak? I have a much bigger problem with you saying what amounts to "I am deliberating changing my meta so you can't use it against me" than I do with you playing somewhat differently than in another active game. (Where since you still alive your alignment can't even be known.) Vote Jak You don't get to decide how other people can use your meta to interpret your play in this game.

Then spiesr got involved and threw a vote at you, you reacted with what could be called a OMGUS and people jumped on the wagon.

I gave you a couple of days to respond and change my view point before I gave you my vote. But you didn't calm my nerves, if anything you made me a little more nervous and so you get my vote. Please make sure you get the story straight next time as I don't like the inference you are making.

I think losing two in the first day is a challenge and the horse vote appears inevitable, but a no lynch does not sit right with me. We need as much information as we can get and the best way to get that is to see a flip, and I am sorry but the more flips the better in my opinion to start off with as then we can see what the flavors and power roles are looking like.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Anark's latest two points have moved me to unvote, vote Anark. Being away, getting your ass saved slightly by me no less, and then picking up the game by moaning about semi-ambiguous rules that make perfect sense if you only tried to understand them, which is basically discussing semantics, is not the way to go. If you do not understand the rules, PM the mod or post about it right away. But no, it took IB to get you to admit that you didn't "understand" the horse game, even though you are in it. Barring that, you decided to moan about spiesr not understanding the reference in "And even then, it was a one out of three shot to get any character." Clearly you have not been reading the rules yourself, since they clearly state that you do not HAVE to send in three characters. But then, you do already have a record for misunderstanding the rules. If someone (say, TFO) really wanted to be a character from Ed, Edd and Eddy, they would be. Manipulating your own role isn't that hard. Send in Dr. Evil as your character, and you'll likely be scum.

In all, (a) scumarining w/o leave, (b) being granted a pardon for the horse game and then moaning about it anyway, and (c) distracting town with useless discussion on allegedly ambiguous rules. Enough for day 1, seems to me.

I agree with this pretty much 100%. He's been particularly harsh on spiesr for what amounts to a minor infraction (if it was even accurate, which it isn't). I don't really see a reason for that other than trying to inflate a case.

vote Nark

Hotshot that's my horse!

-Tails

[Zivel]

Zivel, only you have a problem with me mentioning it. I mention it so that there's no way a mafia can say "Oh, you changed your meta, you should be lynched". No, they will have to try another tactic this time now that everyone knows I wont be playing my exact self this time around. In a big game like this I should be allowed to switch it up some without it being scummy, like you're calling it now.

You know what Jak? I have a much bigger problem with you saying what amounts to "I am deliberating changing my meta so you can't use it against me" than I do with you playing somewhat differently than in another active game. (Where since you still alive your alignment can't even be known.) Vote Jak You don't get to decide how other people can use your meta to interpret your play in this game.

What I meant is that Rodion is one of the best players here at CC. He's very useful when he is on our side. Sure there's a chance he's scum/3rd party. But it's D1, we can get him another day if he is against us. Losing him D1 is losing one of our top players in this game. Something I'm not comfortable with.

I would say an argument for the reverse could be made. As a skilled player bringing a case against him later in the game would likely be difficult barring some actions implicating him. Trying on Day 1 when standards are lower might be the best way to catch a scum Rodion.

I thought you didn't get a vote, whats this blue voting stuff?

[aage]

Again, reread the reason why I voted. People are overusing the OMGUS vote thing. OMGUS is when you vote someone for the only fact that they are voting you. I have explained why I am voting him back. Because of what he said about my thoughts on letting Rodion live through D1. Rodion is a good player, the only ones who want him dead early on when we know absolutely nothing are usually scum.

So I count 2 votes on me that are by people who are not using the word OMGUS correctly. I can link you to the terms if you'd like. In fact I will.

Rules & Terms of Mafia

OMGUS - Oh My God! You Suck!. Usually used in the context of an 'OMGUS vote' - i.e. a vote for someone purely on the basis that they are voting for you.

Nah, that's no what's going on here. The actual reason you gave for your vote was bad. You deliberately stated in your post that you are not voting Spiesr solely because he voted for you... but since the other reason was bad, we can assume that it actually was solely return-fire. Saying something is the case doesn't make it so. Same with your 'meta-change'; it would've been better if you hadn't mentioned it at all. My meta probably has changed, but I wouldn't know. And I wouldn't post it either. Besides, it seems to me that you're playing exactly like you're always playing.
Anyway, people in this game lie. Don't be surprised when people assume you do too. Especially when you follow up with SQUIRREL!-like posts analysing the flavour text of the opening post and then... not? linking it to the 7 day days and 3 day nights? Your conclusion about that analysis had absolutely nothing to do with the rules, lol.

I'm sticking with Anark for my vote, since this always happens when Jak is in the game.

I thought you didn't get a vote, whats this blue voting stuff?

Hah, I'm only just too late to post this as well. Maybe this is a response to my request to try and vote anyway?
Mod hasn't given a VC, but I'd really really like one right now.