CYOC: TDT [6/22] Game Over! FREEDOM!!!

by **edocsil** on Fri May 09, 2014 8:43 am

You can't just say regardless. You need to actually rebuff the points he made with some reasoning!

Not so jonty! Not if the logic was flawed in the first place he should not justify it!

by **sheepofdumb** on Fri May 09, 2014 9:12 am

jonty125 wrote:
show: JokeVote + Drivel

Serious time now unvote, vote Lootifer the post he made was poor.

Horse Game Activity - if pcm wanted to sure activity he would have included surely more than 5 players. Also, why not prod those who don't post, that usually works.
The Removal of the Horse Game - I can't remember the exact phrase but it goes along the lines of if town has an open setup and town don't exploit the set up then town deserve to lose. Anyway, the fact of the matter is Rodion is trying to use the horse game to his advantage. Now currently, I can't say whether he is town or mafia, merely a probability, but the point I am trying to get at is, Rodion is trying to exploit the system in a way to benefit town, which is good, not bad. Also, you said it would lower activity if the horse game were to be removed. I don't think it would, in fact I think it might increase activity, because we now have 2 lynches to talk about, the traditional and the horse. Granted, the horse is gonna be difficult to manipulate but I believe we can. We could goat people instead of voting them (i.e. goat Rodion) and he who the most goats, can end up without a horse, claim, and then be judged.

Rodion has a daykill and one the other 4 are likely going to be killed. Does it sit right with you 4 that you're now going to be examined very closely by the town and then one of you will be marked to die? I guess Rodion will be looked at too but it seems like he thinks he could ignore the rules save his own skin provided that he's town. You guys might just be better off not knowing who's going to end up without a horse. If the potato gets passed around as per the spirit of the game I think it'll boost activity by the 5 participating players.

by **spiesr** on Fri May 09, 2014 10:02 am

Rodion wrote:Spiesr, would you feel comfortable clarifying whether your vote loss derives from your own role or from external factors?

I believe it to be some external factor. I got a PM at the start of the Day saying I don't have a vote for today.

by **aage** on Fri May 09, 2014 10:55 am

spiesr wrote:
Rodion wrote:Spiesr, would you feel comfortable clarifying whether your vote loss derives from your own role or from external factors?
I believe it to be some external factor. I got a PM at the start of the Day saying I don't have a vote for today.

Could you try to place a vote to see if it's true? (Never trust CYOC or pancake.)

In response to the horse discussion; someone or something is limiting the group of people affected by this Horse game. I don't trust this unknown 'benefactor' and would therefore like to eliminate the game if at all possible. I understand that it is in town's best interest to exploit it, but we have no guarantee that we want to see any one of these five players dead at all. Therefore we need to find out more about the mechanic and what's causing it. One way of finding this out is by creating an unusual situation, like I suggested: lynching the person who has no horse. Like I said, the game might backfire.
On the other hand, we could also treat it as a second lynch. If there is anyone among these five who we mistrust enough to let them die, I say let's go with that. It is however the nature of the game that is suspicious to me. Five seemingly random players toss around a bomb waiting for it to go off. Who picked the players? Why would a town role want a bunch of people to toss around a death sentence without knowing who they're targeting? Unless of course it isn't a town role at all and the creator of the game simply wants to kill as many players as possible, in which case I refer back to my original plan.

by **strike wolf** on Fri May 09, 2014 11:29 am

Honestly, I am not that concerned with it right now. At this point in the game we would have about as much chance to hit the horser as anyone else in the game with the information we have, less if this is indeed a game mechanic and not a player mechanic. I thought about what you thought about Aage but the problem is I think it limits our view too much for random reasons.

by **HotShot53** on Fri May 09, 2014 11:39 am

sheepofdumb wrote:
jonty125 wrote:
show: JokeVote + Drivel

Serious time now unvote, vote Lootifer the post he made was poor.

Horse Game Activity - if pcm wanted to sure activity he would have included surely more than 5 players. Also, why not prod those who don't post, that usually works.
The Removal of the Horse Game - I can't remember the exact phrase but it goes along the lines of if town has an open setup and town don't exploit the set up then town deserve to lose. Anyway, the fact of the matter is Rodion is trying to use the horse game to his advantage. Now currently, I can't say whether he is town or mafia, merely a probability, but the point I am trying to get at is, Rodion is trying to exploit the system in a way to benefit town, which is good, not bad. Also, you said it would lower activity if the horse game were to be removed. I don't think it would, in fact I think it might increase activity, because we now have 2 lynches to talk about, the traditional and the horse. Granted, the horse is gonna be difficult to manipulate but I believe we can. We could goat people instead of voting them (i.e. goat Rodion) and he who the most goats, can end up without a horse, claim, and then be judged.

Rodion has a daykill and one the other 4 are likely going to be killed. Does it sit right with you 4 that you're now going to be examined very closely by the town and then one of you will be marked to die? I guess Rodion will be looked at too but it seems like he thinks he could ignore the rules save his own skin provided that he's town. You guys might just be better off not knowing who's going to end up without a horse. If the potato gets passed around as per the spirit of the game I think it'll boost activity by the 5 participating players.

I am not happy being one of the 5 that is at risk of dying... I just hope some of the others at risk are scum so it's not a guaranteed town death. I guess that depends on if it was mod's choice as to who to include, or if someone was picking people at random, or if it is a scum role to pick in which case we'll all be town or third parties.

To be honest, I was considering doing the same thing Rodion is now doing, and trying to steal a horse along with a hammering vote to end the day. Of course that runs the risk that someone else puts in the last vote first (which the 4 of us with horses now have an incentive to do so that there isn't a chance of a horse being taken from us). I would not blame someone for hammering a lynch just so Rodion doesn't have a chance to steal a horse. Actually, since there are 4 of us and only 1 of Rodion, chances are one of us could put in the hammering vote first unless we know who he will steal from, in which case it would make it a 50-50 chance. I'm just glad I'm usually active enough that I have a decent chance of surviving this.

by **pancakemix** on Fri May 09, 2014 12:49 pm

Vote Count

Virus90 - 1 (sheep)
TFO - 1 (Rodion)
edoc - 2 (KGB, Zivel)
Betiko - 1 (Jmac)
Rodion - 2 (aage, Lootifer)
Nark - 1 (Sausage)
Lootifer - (jonty)

With 22 alive it takes 12 to lynch! Deadline is May 15th at 11:59PM ET.

Rodion is currently without a horse.

While I'm on the subject, "cooking" the horse goes against the spirit of the game. As such, I'm implementing a 24 hour time limit on how long you can hold on to the potato. Don't pass it along in 24 hours, you'll be killed at the end of the day. Since this wasn't in effect before, the timer starts at the timestamp of this post.

by **Whatsausage** on Fri May 09, 2014 12:52 pm

So we don't have any confirmation on edoc's "daykill" yet do we? It seems unlikely to be true, because if he had that power, it wouldn't make any sense to do it right away.

I'll unvote my joke vote since that's all it was. (That had him at L-12 lol)

So some speculation on the horse game.
1. It is a ploy by the mod to give the town more power for daykills; meaning a. possibly not a totally random group (meaning it has like ~1 scum) or b. if it is a truly random group, it is totally possible that we lose a town no matter what. (Also the possibility of multiple scum that we could use for connections info later on) and c. It is likely just for today, with something different possible tomorrow
2. It is someone's role; could be either pro or anti-town, more likely anti considering the kills. If this the case, it is more likely to be around than I believe for Case 1, so we could see tomorrow. The one reason I doubt this is someone's power....The list was available at the beginning of the first day. How could that person have been certain to be able to get the list in before the day started if it truly was to start with 3/4ths confirmed?

FP'd by pcm
So the daykill clearly didn't work

Interesting about the time limit on passing it. So if the person doesn't pass it for 24 hours, they are killed at the end of the day... So could theoretically, everyone in the group die from that? Or does the "potato" disappear after?

by **HotShot53** on Fri May 09, 2014 1:05 pm

pancakemix wrote:
While I'm on the subject, "cooking" the horse goes against the spirit of the game. As such, I'm implementing a 24 hour time limit on how long you can hold on to the potato. Don't pass it along in 24 hours, you'll be killed at the end of the day. Since this wasn't in effect before, the timer starts at the timestamp of this post.

Well, looks like all of us on the hot seat better check in at least once a day or risk getting caught without a horse. Since you have to take your turns in the actual games once a day anyway, this shouldn't be a problem I assume, just forces a little more activity.

by **jonty125** on Fri May 09, 2014 1:06 pm

edocsil wrote:
You can't just say regardless. You need to actually rebuff the points he made with some reasoning!

Not so jonty! Not if the logic was flawed in the first place he should not justify it!

Even when he's voting a man using his flawed logic?! He should either unvote, or back himself up not just say regardless.

FASTPOSTED by hotshot

by **Rodion** on Fri May 09, 2014 1:47 pm

I think Edoc was being sarcastic.

HotShot53, that's my horse!

by **HotShot53** on Fri May 09, 2014 2:04 pm

Anarkistsdream hasn't been horseless yet... so Anarkistsdream, that's my horse!

by **TA1LGUNN3R** on Fri May 09, 2014 2:46 pm

HotShot53 wrote:Anarkistsdream hasn't been horseless yet... so Anarkistsdream, that's my horse!

Rodion is currently horseless, or "it."

whatsausage wrote:So we don't have any confirmation on edoc's "daykill" yet do we? It seems unlikely to be true, because if he had that power, it wouldn't make any sense to do it right away.

FOS whatsausage for skimming.

-Tails

by **TA1LGUNN3R** on Fri May 09, 2014 2:47 pm

Whoops my bad, missed Rodion's post.

-Tails

by **sheepofdumb** on Fri May 09, 2014 2:52 pm

Whatsausage wrote:So we don't have any confirmation on edoc's "daykill" yet do we? It seems unlikely to be true, because if he had that power, it wouldn't make any sense to do it right away.

Edoc said there he didn't have a daykill and pancake didn't post a death scene which reinforces that.

by **Rodion** on Fri May 09, 2014 2:58 pm

Ironically, Sausage did realize that in the "fastposted" part of his post, so TG skimmed. :razz:

by **TA1LGUNN3R** on Fri May 09, 2014 3:14 pm

Lol, FOS myself.

-Tails

by **strike wolf** on Fri May 09, 2014 3:26 pm

Lots of skimming it seems like.

To give my opinion on Lootifer. His reasoning was meh. I don't find it inherently scummy but the activity issue he brought up is a possible concern but negligible. So yeah not much to say.

Beyond that, the horse game can still be used to town's advantage. All we really need to do is make sure that one of the five, someone we decide to trust (it cannot be random and we can't just arbitrarily say Rodion/Ta1ls/Anarkist/hotshot/virus should have it), who will be on when the deadline comes around (or is prepared to hammer on the lynch), has the potato passed to him at some point within 24 hours of the deadline/lynch time. Using that we can follow through on giving it to the person of the 5 we find least trustworthy as the hammer is dropped or the deadline reached.

by **kgb007** on Fri May 09, 2014 5:01 pm

Whatsausage wrote:So we don't have any confirmation on edoc's "daykill" yet do we? It seems unlikely to be true, because if he had that power, it wouldn't make any sense to do it right away.

I'll unvote my joke vote since that's all it was. (That had him at L-12 lol)

So some speculation on the horse game.
1. It is a ploy by the mod to give the town more power for daykills; meaning a. possibly not a totally random group (meaning it has like ~1 scum) or b. if it is a truly random group, it is totally possible that we lose a town no matter what. (Also the possibility of multiple scum that we could use for connections info later on) and c. It is likely just for today, with something different possible tomorrow
2. It is someone's role; could be either pro or anti-town, more likely anti considering the kills. If this the case, it is more likely to be around than I believe for Case 1, so we could see tomorrow. The one reason I doubt this is someone's power....The list was available at the beginning of the first day. How could that person have been certain to be able to get the list in before the day started if it truly was to start with 3/4ths confirmed?

FP'd by pcm
So the daykill clearly didn't work
Interesting about the time limit on passing it. So if the person doesn't pass it for 24 hours, they are killed at the end of the day... So could theoretically, everyone in the group die from that? Or does the "potato" disappear after?

Is a town with more power to kill really a good thing with 22 people? The odds are much higher that we lynch a townie than not - I don't care what you tell me, correctly lynching scum on D1 is guess work based on limited posts and mountains out of molehills at best. We'd be lucky to go 1 for 2 between the lynch and horse game today.

Another option would be to focus strictly the 5 "chosen" ones and decide who to lynch from that group to limit the killing/damage done to town in case we're wrong. Mechanically we'd just need to ensure whoever hammers also ensures that player is horseless. I'm not advocating this strategy, just posing it as an option.

For the mod to select 5 townies to play horse doesn't seem right so either pcm's used some unbiased tool to select 5 players truly at random, it's part of some player's role or he hand selected the players...

by **aage** on Fri May 09, 2014 6:54 pm

kgb007 wrote:Is a town with more power to kill really a good thing with 22 people?

It can be. Actually, it definitely would be good. However, if the horse thing is a player ability and the player has actively chosen to use it on day 1, that player is most likely anti town. Additional killing power on day 1 is quite useless unless some very fruitful discussion arises.

The odds are much higher that we lynch a townie than not - I don't care what you tell me, correctly lynching scum on D1 is guess work based on limited posts and mountains out of molehills at best. We'd be lucky to go 1 for 2 between the lynch and horse game today.

Another option would be to focus strictly the 5 "chosen" ones and decide who to lynch from that group to limit the killing/damage done to town in case we're wrong. Mechanically we'd just need to ensure whoever hammers also ensures that player is horseless. I'm not advocating this strategy, just posing it as an option.

For the mod to select 5 townies to play horse doesn't seem right so either pcm's used some unbiased tool to select 5 players truly at random, it's part of some player's role or he hand selected the players...

You're using the entirely wrong reason to suggest this. Your post reeks of "hey guyz lets no lynch". FoS.

by **Nebuchadnezer** on Fri May 09, 2014 7:37 pm

HotShot53 wrote:Anarkistsdream hasn't been horseless yet... so Anarkistsdream, that's my horse!

He has not posted since the game started...he may be a goner without a horse...

by **kgb007** on Fri May 09, 2014 8:05 pm

aage wrote: It can be. Actually, it definitely would be good. However, if the horse thing is a player ability and the player has actively chosen to use it on day 1, that player is most likely anti town. Additional killing power on day 1 is quite useless unless some very fruitful discussion arises.

First, you say more killing power for town is good, then you qualify that statement by saying it's "useless" unless good discussion comes from it. If one of the 5 is marked for death anyway, we might as well ensure some discussion surrounding those players occurs, rather than have them flood the thread with pass the horse posts with no other substance before they expire.

The subtle point I was trying to make: With CYOC, you'd think the anti-town member with the ability to initiate this game would have to be involved in the game itself or else it's essentially a no risk kill for mafia to kick things off. On the other hand, I'd instantly become suspicious of any reoccuring player if the game carries over to tmw so I'm assuming this is a one time game and wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if one of the characters in the game is from Ed, Edd and Eddy

I'm guessing there's at least 1 anti-town member in that pool of 5 whether by CYOC mechanics or pcm's design.

aage wrote:You're using the entirely wrong reason to suggest this. Your post reeks of "hey guyz lets no lynch". FoS.

Am I? Did I ever suggest we should no lynch? No, so I can't be using the wrong reason to suggest a no lynch. Let me be very clear on this in case others arrive at the same conclusion based on my previous post. I'm not in favor of no lynch. I'm in favor of starting with the 5 before moving on to other players

by **DoomYoshi** on Fri May 09, 2014 8:39 pm

jonty125 wrote: I can't remember the exact phrase but it goes along the lines of if town has an open setup and town don't exploit the set up then town deserve to lose.

That's my quote that I stole from rainbowdash over at mafiascum. It's why you assume perfect play in an open setup. If everybody voted randomly and cops and docs worked randomly then anything could happen and town deserves to lose.

I am going to stand by an old adage for now. Third on the wagon is scum (i am counting neb and edoc in that).
vote jonty

aage, why are you pleased with that?

by **sheepofdumb** on Fri May 09, 2014 11:03 pm

aage wrote:The odds are much higher that we lynch a townie than not - I don't care what you tell me, correctly lynching scum on D1 is guess work based on limited posts and mountains out of molehills at best. We'd be lucky to go 1 for 2 between the lynch and horse game today.

Alignment is random and looks like it is done after the role is created. Just sayin'

by **jonty125** on Sat May 10, 2014 3:29 am

DoomYoshi wrote:I am going to stand by an old adage for now. Third on the wagon is scum (i am counting neb and edoc in that).
vote jonty

Can't argue against that, in that I was the third to pick apart Loot, but I was the first and so far only to vote him.

sheepofdumb wrote:Rodion has a daykill and one the other 4 are likely going to be killed. Does it sit right with you 4 that you're now going to be examined very closely by the town and then one of you will be marked to die? I guess Rodion will be looked at too but it seems like he thinks he could ignore the rules save his own skin provided that he's town. You guys might just be better off not knowing who's going to end up without a horse. If the potato gets passed around as per the spirit of the game I think it'll boost activity by the 5 participating players.

Well this was before, the rule clarification from pcm but trying to control who dies is better than random isn't it?

And just FTR I think the horse game is a mod thing, and there'll be summat different on D2. Just what my gut says. Also, Doom has posted recently.

CYOC: TDT [6/22] Game Over! FREEDOM!!!

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