Why is god mysterious?

[heavycola]

OK i know this is another religious topic, but it's got nothing to do with gay cowboys so i thought a new thread was in order.

God hates homosexuality (sin) but not homosexuals.

OK so god experiences... hate, love, anger, compassion, pity and jealousy, to name a few emotions. These are human feelings. God and humans experience the same emotions. When jesus gets angry in the temple, we can understand why. When god loves his only son, or his creation, we can understand why. When he demands that we should have no other gods but him, no false idols, we can understand why.
Next, I think the christian posters on here would agree that god is an interventionist. Jay believes he has regenerated limbs, for example.
So how is the 'god works in mysterious ways' response to questions about why he didn't intervene when millions of natives were dying of smallpox, or when his chosen people were being slaughtered in gas chambers, at all acceptable?

Any human with the power to stop those things- especially a loving, compassionate human - would undoubtedly have done so. So why does a being with sympathetic emotions to ours get let off by being mysterious? Surely he is in fact arbitrary, twisted, mean or - and here is occam's razor working, i think - non-existent?

[DirtyDishSoap]

that last little paragraph right there is exactly what i was thinking

[Guilty_Biscuit]

Fact: The Christian God does not exist.

[unriggable]

Fact: The Christian God does not exist.

I wouldn't go that far, but I'd say that we have no idea what God wants, thinks, etc.

[diddle]

one day, everybody in the world decided to build a ladder up to god. It would take a mammoth effort, but if everybody helped, they knew they could do it. God saw this ladder approach him in heaven at an alarming rate and panicked, he quickly cast a magical spell on all the humans, making them all speak different languages. Communication broke down and arguments started, and to this day, the ladder was never finished.

[diddle]

one day, everybody in the world decided to build a ladder up to god. It would take a mammoth effort, but if everybody helped, they knew they could do it. God saw this ladder approach him in heaven at an alarming rate and panicked, he quickly cast a magical spell on all the humans, making them all speak different languages. Communication broke down and arguments started, and to this day, the ladder was never finished.

and from the hate and suffering that followed spawned a demon...aka George W Bush

[fluffybunnykins]

I think God only seems mysterious to us because our brains (amazing as they are) cannot take in the concept

[Dmunster]

OK i know this is another religious topic, but it's got nothing to do with gay cowboys so i thought a new thread was in order.

God hates homosexuality (sin) but not homosexuals.

OK so god experiences... hate, love, anger, compassion, pity and jealousy, to name a few emotions. These are human feelings. God and humans experience the same emotions. When jesus gets angry in the temple, we can understand why. When god loves his only son, or his creation, we can understand why. When he demands that we should have no other gods but him, no false idols, we can understand why.
Next, I think the christian posters on here would agree that god is an interventionist. Jay believes he has regenerated limbs, for example.
So how is the 'god works in mysterious ways' response to questions about why he didn't intervene when millions of natives were dying of smallpox, or when his chosen people were being slaughtered in gas chambers, at all acceptable?

Any human with the power to stop those things- especially a loving, compassionate human - would undoubtedly have done so. So why does a being with sympathetic emotions to ours get let off by being mysterious? Surely he is in fact arbitrary, twisted, mean or - and here is occam's razor working, i think - non-existent?

God dosent like you using my avi.

[hecter]

one day, everybody in the world decided to build a ladder up to god. It would take a mammoth effort, but if everybody helped, they knew they could do it. God saw this ladder approach him in heaven at an alarming rate and panicked, he quickly cast a magical spell on all the humans, making them all speak different languages. Communication broke down and arguments started, and to this day, the ladder was never finished.

Sounds a lot like the tower of Babel…

[diddle]

one day, everybody in the world decided to build a ladder up to god. It would take a mammoth effort, but if everybody helped, they knew they could do it. God saw this ladder approach him in heaven at an alarming rate and panicked, he quickly cast a magical spell on all the humans, making them all speak different languages. Communication broke down and arguments started, and to this day, the ladder was never finished.

Sounds a lot like the tower of Babel…

just a story i heard....back when i was one of jesus' disciples

[paranoid-android]

I <3 Atheism. That is all

[jay_a2j]

OK i know this is another religious topic, but it's got nothing to do with gay cowboys so i thought a new thread was in order.

God hates homosexuality (sin) but not homosexuals.

OK so god experiences... hate, love, anger, compassion, pity and jealousy, to name a few emotions. These are human feelings. God and humans experience the same emotions. When jesus gets angry in the temple, we can understand why. When god loves his only son, or his creation, we can understand why. When he demands that we should have no other gods but him, no false idols, we can understand why.
Next, I think the christian posters on here would agree that god is an interventionist. Jay believes he has regenerated limbs, for example.
So how is the 'god works in mysterious ways' response to questions about why he didn't intervene when millions of natives were dying of smallpox, or when his chosen people were being slaughtered in gas chambers, at all acceptable?

Any human with the power to stop those things- especially a loving, compassionate human - would undoubtedly have done so. So why does a being with sympathetic emotions to ours get let off by being mysterious? Surely he is in fact arbitrary, twisted, mean or - and here is occam's razor working, i think - non-existent?

Prayer. God answers the prayers of His people. Bad things happen in a sinful world. God wishes that no man should perish (in hell). One should not be concerned with the death of the body as much as the death of the spirit. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. If your spirit is right with God you will not fear a death of the body.


"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son." What more can He do? He went to the cross willingly. (He could have stopped it at any time but chose to go out of His love for you and me)

[unriggable]

All I can say jay is bullshit. If Jesus didn't bodily ascend into heaven (we found his skeleton) how can we know any of that tale is true?

[jay_a2j]

All I can say jay is bullshit. If Jesus didn't bodily ascend into heaven (we found his skeleton) how can we know any of that tale is true?

Please post a link! This I have to see!

[Nephilim]

heavycola, i respect you for your many intelligent posts i have read. i urge you to think about a couple of things (i'm hesitant b/c you've probably thought about these already, but....)

first, this is an age-old question, theodicy, the problem of evil. why should we believe in a good and loving god when the world can be so terrible? i think your quest for knowledge would be well-served by the realization that many people have struggled with this question for a long, long time, and lots of good answers have come out of the struggle. lots of folks who are much smarter than any of us have posited good answers to the problem of evil. i think if you search, you may find something. not trying to be obscurantist or naive, just saying that some respectable answers do exist (i would have to study up quite a bit to give you good solid answers myself, here i'd just like to spur you toward your own study)

second, none or very few of those good answers will come from CC (especially jay). not to quash the conversation, just saying, this is a pretty heavy subject, and i'd hate to see anyone make up their mind based on any subpar debate that might happen here

sorry if this sounds condescending at all, i don't mean it if it does. this is a great debate, i'll try to interject more when i feel confident in my contributions....

[jay_a2j]

If you don't have anything productive to contribute to the conversation.... don't post. If you have a problem with me, that's ok. I still love you as does God.

second, none or very few of those good answers will come from CC (especially jay).

Don't hate.

[Guiscard]

All I can say jay is bullshit. If Jesus didn't bodily ascend into heaven (we found his skeleton) how can we know any of that tale is true?

Please post a link! This I have to see!

Perhaps this is one of the few times we'll be in agreement, Jay!

[heavycola]

God dosent like you using my avi.

dammit. WHere did you come from??:lol:

Nephilim - thanks for the response, it's not condescending at all! I am willing to believe that good and evil, perceptions that are often subjective to some degree, balance each other out in the world. But i am thinking more why a god whose qualities are our qualities, whose most important emotions and biblical actions we can empathise with at least, behaves today in such a comparitively arbitrary and unrecognisable way. This is not the god of the old testament or the new, i get him most of the time. Smallpox is not evil, it's just another organism trying to survive, but it has killed millions. I can't see the Israelites dying of starvation on their flight from egypt, for example. I'm blathering now. Hope this makes sense, it's late.

[Backglass]

Prayer. God answers the prayers of His people.

Superstition. Millions of people pray and sometimes those prayers come true. You say it was the work of a god...I say it was random chance.

Either your god doesn't give a sh*t about the 99.9% he ignores...or this god doesn't exist.

God wishes that no man should perish (in hell).

If this is really all your god wants, then all it needs to do is appear in the sky (as we talked about before) with a voice heard planet wide. BOOM! Instant planet of worshipers, nobody perishes in hell, satan is out of work.

But that isn't going to happen, so evidently you are either wrong about what this god wishes...or this god doesn't exist.

One should not be concerned with the death of the body as much as the death of the spirit. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. If your spirit is right with God you will not fear a death of the body.

This is just Religious Valium. Many people have a hard time comprehending the finality of death so men have invented a magical afterlife and sky-daddy to take care of you when you die. This way you can sleep at night and go on with your life unburdened. But that doesn't make it real.

I always loved this quote: "Since time immemorial, the powerful have used religion to distract the oppressed, to encourage them to focus on the next world so that they will acquiesce to the injustices of this world. If you would have your slaves remain docile, teach them hymns." - Ed Weathers

[jay_a2j]

I always loved this quote: "Since time immemorial, the powerful have used religion to distract the oppressed, to encourage them to focus on the next world so that they will acquiesce to the injustices of this world. If you would have your slaves remain docile, teach them hymns." - Ed Weathers

I have always loved these:

"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God'".

"Do not throw your pearls before swine to be trampled on"

"Confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved"


(all quotes courtesy of God)

[Daring Overlord5]

In a response to the first post, God gave all of us free will to do what we choose. If he interveins, we don't have free will. You can think what you like and disreguard my post, that's your choice to do so.

And in response to another post, it takes faith. If we knew everything, what good would that do? There would be noreason to believe, we would just take it for granted.

[duday53]

I'm not very good at religeous matters, but basically you guys are asking and answering why, if there is so much evil and death (and that god loves us so much) why doesnt he step in.

right?

[for dummies]

that is about it yes.

one argument i hate is the one about free will. i am a long withstanding athiest and when people say that it just kills me. in the bible god is always talking to people ,ordering them around and telling them what to do. If he was so set on free will why did he do all of that? if he is so awesome in his powers then he wouldn't have waited till he gets into the thick of things to decide, " oh they must have free will...i won't talk to them any more". God is (supposed to be) all knowing, not stupid. He either would never talk at all, or talk the whole way through. The argument about free will is just an excuse because christians are embarrassed that their so called god hasn't spoken for 2000 years.

[unriggable]

All I can say jay is bullshit. If Jesus didn't bodily ascend into heaven (we found his skeleton) how can we know any of that tale is true?

Please post a link! This I have to see!

Perhaps this is one of the few times we'll be in agreement, Jay!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17328478/site/newsweek/

[Wind Warrior]

If you believe in the biblical god then answer this one simple question
Would you do anything "god" told you to do?

Also I am not an Atheist I'm a Taoist