Jonty125's Mad Mafia Game Over

by **jonty125** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:15 pm

Metsfanmax replaces jdean1.

by **edocsil** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:02 pm

Lootifer wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:
edocsil wrote: But i want to lynch a rookie for completely unjustified reasons.

In seriousness I didn't throw my vote due to the new lynch mechanism. I want to get a feel for how people will react to it day one, and I really don't intend on placing my vote until run-off so we can learn how people react to it.

Also Unvote

Just an add on to what Edocsil said. Keep in mind this is not mafiascum. Its a different culture. Here at CC there is a formed core base of players who overtime have gotten a feel for how each other play. That does not mean everyone is predictable. Its always good when new players arrive and stay.

One does not need to vote every time one puts pressure on. I asked a legitimate question with some follow up.

Interestingly I would have interpreted edocs plan (when considered by itself) as anti-town: not only does a vote apply pressure with in turn leads to reactions/reads, but how you react to wagons, what wagons you join, etc, is hugely valuable later on; to avoid putting your vote down is as though you are trying to avoid leaving evidence that may later be used against you, the run-off excuse notwithstanding.

But then IB weighs with some support... support that somewhat explains edocs plan and makes sense (though I still don't like what edoc is doing).

So from my point of view it is, on balance, null - that could be just how things are done around here which is my problem to deal with and will probably end with me getting myself lynched

Buuuuuuuuut... It may not be null for other more experienced CC mafia players... thoughts?

In most circumstances I would agree, votes are good and make patterns. However, here we are going to get a wagon no matter what happens due to the run-off mechanic, and I don't want a clear case to have everyone just sheep on and say that they didn't have a choice but follow the herd. I want to see who votes for who when they are forced to and examine why they do it, myself included.

by **HotShot53** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:32 pm

I don't think everyone is required to vote, so I don't know how much info you will get from people's voting. I guess you can just be suspicious of non-voters, although at this point I'm not suspicious enough of anyone to vote them, other than maybe an inactive/scummarizing member.

by **safariguy5** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:47 pm

unvote with the replace.

by **Iron Butterfly** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:22 pm

now that we are all serious like. unvote

by **Iron Butterfly** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:22 pm

now that we are all serious like. unvote

by **crasp** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:25 pm

Unvote.

by **Metsfanmax** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:25 pm

Iron Butterfly wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:
nagerous wrote:Nag thoughts:

Tight deadline, but no substance actually posted yet to make any reasoned thoughts - purely spam.

Anark, a player who wears his heart on his sleeve has gone for a kill or be killed approach, which is typical him, everyone has a survival instinct. What is more suspicious perhaps is Lootifer's instantaneous attack on Nark following on his vote on Benga. Could be jokey and playful or something more sinister.

Kinda, but I mean I am not sure he was being all that serious with it... but better than nothing... we still have a week though... not really an urgent issue. We can come back to this is there arent any other posts... but that is just my opinion. Others' may differ.

Why would you try to shift focus from the first important exchange of the game??

This post is the only one that I really picked up suspicious signals on. IB is trying too hard for an "exchange" that was obviously not going to get anywhere.

by **Iron Butterfly** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:59 pm

How does one "try to hard" when scum hunting??

Do you think my question was wrong or out of line?

by **Metsfanmax** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:04 pm

Iron Butterfly wrote:Do you think my question was wrong or out of line?

No, I just picked something up in that phrasing. It seemed like you were making a mountain out of a molehill.

by **NoSurvivors** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:08 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:Do you think my question was wrong or out of line?

No, I just picked something up in that phrasing. It seemed like you were making a mountain out of a molehill.

Not that I didn't feel that way at one point, but I mean, it IS day one, so isn't anything (other than something blatantly apparent to everyone) trying too hard? Lol

by **Metsfanmax** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:10 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:Do you think my question was wrong or out of line?

No, I just picked something up in that phrasing. It seemed like you were making a mountain out of a molehill.

Not that I didn't feel that way at one point, but I mean, it IS day one, so isn't anything (other than something blatantly apparent to everyone) trying too hard? Lol

Yes, and it's the same reason why Lootifer's comment means little to me. I just don't have much else to go on, and figured I should contribute something after replacing.

by **Iron Butterfly** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:14 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:Do you think my question was wrong or out of line?

No, I just picked something up in that phrasing. It seemed like you were making a mountain out of a molehill.

So on day one you ignore the mole hills and the possibility they may lead deeper while waiting for that BIG MOUNTIAN to appear?

So you agree my question was not out of line. How would you have framed the question then? Seeing how you disagree with my phrasing.

by **Metsfanmax** on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:24 pm

Iron Butterfly wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:Do you think my question was wrong or out of line?

No, I just picked something up in that phrasing. It seemed like you were making a mountain out of a molehill.

So on day one you ignore the mole hills and the possibility they may lead deeper while waiting for that BIG MOUNTIAN to appear?

No, and this seems to be another example of you straw manning. NoS explicitly said he didn't think other people had to stop talking about it -- just that he didn't think there's a case there (which there's not). Obviously you implicitly agree or you would have actually responded to it, and not to someone else's response to it.

by **jonty125** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:24 am

Vote Count

Benga (2) - virus90; Anarkistsdream;
NoSurvivors (1) - Lootifer

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is Monday, 24th February @ 1800 GMT. If the vote count were to remain as so at deadline a benga would be lynched.

virus90 has been prodded.

by **NoSurvivors** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:22 am

Alright well, I feel like one of you two (@mets and IB) is suspicious. Here is my reasoning:

IB) although i see your point in digging into the "mole hills" day one, I see where mets is coming from, and your post in response to mets' post does strike me as kind of ironic. The fact that you replied to a post about you making "a mountain out of a mole hill" with another post that again shows you trying hard to (as it seems) get a random lynch. I come look pretty often so I won't vote but I'm interested to see how you respond to this.

Mets) what strikes me as interesting about you is the fact that (maybe this is more of a defensive reason) that I feel you are trying to pit myself and IB against one another. You look to be defending me, and that makes you and I look scummy (smart tactic though if you are scum, trying to bring someone down without causing waves... if you aren't them i apologize for my skepticism) Considering I'm not experienced enough with mafia, I will simply FOS you because it's only my intuition.

by **safariguy5** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:25 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:Alright well, I feel like one of you two (@mets and IB) is suspicious. Here is my reasoning:

IB) although i see your point in digging into the "mole hills" day one, I see where mets is coming from, and your post in response to mets' post does strike me as kind of ironic. The fact that you replied to a post about you making "a mountain out of a mole hill" with another post that again shows you trying hard to (as it seems) get a random lynch. I come look pretty often so I won't vote but I'm interested to see how you respond to this.

Mets) what strikes me as interesting about you is the fact that (maybe this is more of a defensive reason) that I feel you are trying to pit myself and IB against one another. You look to be defending me, and that makes you and I look scummy (smart tactic though if you are scum, trying to bring someone down without causing waves... if you aren't them i apologize for my skepticism) Considering I'm not experienced enough with mafia, I will simply FOS you because it's only my intuition.

I don't see your logic on Mets defending you making you look scummy. It's only scummy if he turns out to be anti town later, but we can't know that at this stage. It could just as easily be three townies arguing as it could be one mafia and two town. Or maybe it's the extremely WIFOM three mafia arguing. :shock:

by **virus90** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:42 pm

still got my jokevote in, so unvote

and i agree with safari ^^^^^^ (see post above) ^^^^^ chances are that its just town argueing with town and maffia are laying low and laughing at the townies fighting eachother, i lolled at the possibility of 3 maffia pointing fingers at eachother, that probably actually is a great way to play it, but i think thats to farfetcht (or something like that). I hate day 1... takes a long time and its like finding a needle in a haystack, or maybe harder because you dont have a clue how the needle or the haystack look like (what roles we have got etc).

by **NoSurvivors** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:31 pm

virus90 wrote:still got my jokevote in, so unvote

and i agree with safari ^^^^^^ (see post above) ^^^^^ chances are that its just town argueing with town and maffia are laying low and laughing at the townies fighting eachother, i lolled at the possibility of 3 maffia pointing fingers at eachother, that probably actually is a great way to play it, but i think thats to farfetcht (or something like that). I hate day 1... takes a long time and its like finding a needle in a haystack, or maybe harder because you dont have a clue how the needle or the haystack look like (what roles we have got etc).

I suppose... I mean it would make a lot more sense that mafia are letting us get up in arms about everything going on while they laugh at us... I'm not sure though. Worst comes to worst we can pressure someone who isn't as active and get something out of the day

by **HotShot53** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:01 pm

The votes are all disappearing... down to 2 out of 16 votes now. I guess nobody has looked particularly scummy yet. I agree with looking for a hiding/scummarizing person to put pressure on, as there is nowhere better to look as of now it seems.

by **Lootifer** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:20 pm

Urgh this game is so frustrating!

One of the main reasons we don't have any leads to follow (or very few weak ones) is because no one is using their most powerful tool. This run-off mechanic seems to have stunned people into silence (correct me if I am wrong and this is actually a typical day 1...).

Firstly, and I apologise if I am telling grandma to suck eggs, you guys know that if we to have a run off now either benga or NoS would be lynched right? We couldn't even No Lynch if we wanted to...

Secondly a vote does not imply a lynch. I am happy with my vote on NoS, not because I am 100% certain they are scum, but because comparatively they are one of my strongest scummy reads (and lets be honest here, strong right now means, like, a 40% chance of being scum rather than just a 20, 30 or whatever % chance a random guess would get me). I would like to push NoS to post a bit more, scratch under the surface so we can see if they are genuine or putting up a charade (or to use Mets' analogy see if we can find ourselves a mountain).

Thirdly doing nothing right now and waiting until the 24th is almost certainly going to hurt town. We currently have no information. Our enemies have lots of information. It's advantage-scum and will remain so if we keep this up. Yes I agree with Edoc that forcing a run off is a good idea, but that is no reason to waste the intervening time available.

Finally I still don't like NoS's posting. Wishy washy and information rather than analysis (you guys use the acronym IIoA round here?), but this is 60-40 for me: They are relatively inexperienced so they could just lack confidence in their reads (60), but conversly they could be setting up to use the newbie card as an easy defense "Oh yeah that is scummy! Haha, i'm such a newb!" (40).

NoS can you give me your view on the players so far? Not looking for cases, just interested in general views or initial reads.

by **edocsil** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:08 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:
virus90 wrote:still got my jokevote in, so unvote

and i agree with safari ^^^^^^ (see post above) ^^^^^ chances are that its just town argueing with town and maffia are laying low and laughing at the townies fighting eachother, i lolled at the possibility of 3 maffia pointing fingers at eachother, that probably actually is a great way to play it, but i think thats to farfetcht (or something like that). I hate day 1... takes a long time and its like finding a needle in a haystack, or maybe harder because you dont have a clue how the needle or the haystack look like (what roles we have got etc).

I suppose... I mean it would make a lot more sense that mafia are letting us get up in arms about everything going on while they laugh at us... I'm not sure though. Worst comes to worst we can pressure someone who isn't as active and get something out of the day

Any half decent scum (or any player really) will not sit back and let the others argue scum want to much things up if they can, or appear townish my contributing. Scummarining is a crap theory to use to identify scum.

by **HotShot53** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:47 pm

edocsil wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:
virus90 wrote:still got my jokevote in, so unvote

and i agree with safari ^^^^^^ (see post above) ^^^^^ chances are that its just town argueing with town and maffia are laying low and laughing at the townies fighting eachother, i lolled at the possibility of 3 maffia pointing fingers at eachother, that probably actually is a great way to play it, but i think thats to farfetcht (or something like that). I hate day 1... takes a long time and its like finding a needle in a haystack, or maybe harder because you dont have a clue how the needle or the haystack look like (what roles we have got etc).

I suppose... I mean it would make a lot more sense that mafia are letting us get up in arms about everything going on while they laugh at us... I'm not sure though. Worst comes to worst we can pressure someone who isn't as active and get something out of the day

Any half decent scum (or any player really) will not sit back and let the others argue scum want to much things up if they can, or appear townish my contributing. Scummarining is a crap theory to use to identify scum.

While it's true that sometimes a scum will post more often than normal to appear town, at least they are posting and it's possible to catch them on things. A scum who doesn't post hardly at all however will be very hard to catch, and a town who hardly posts at all is no help... so either way getting them involved is a good thing. And the easiest way to get them more involved is to be suspicious of or vote them

by **NoSurvivors** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:59 pm

Lootifer, honestly I think I've been the scummiest player here too. Now, assuming for a moment you believe me to be town...

I believe the second scummiest player to be IB, for the reasons I posted earlier. I certainly don't think there's enough to lynch him, but the fact that he has pushed more than anyone for a bandwagon of some sort (pushing and questioning anything that talks to him). He seems to believe that a no lynch really isn't an option.

Now, I know that I'm town and pressure on me won't help anyone any, but of course you'd have to believe me for that :lol:

. But I definitely would be the most obvious choice for pressure votes, and I will gladly (well, not gladly but i will) claim.

But my vote if nothing arises will be going on IB. He seems to be edgy and trying too hard to be town.

Fast posted by hotshot...

I re-read your post loot, and I read that you didn't want a case but ill keep that up there anyways.

My reads on the town are that I want to see several people post more (nag/benga and others to a lesser extent) and I have a gut feeling about either IB or mets, but I'm not sure. (I'm good at maing enemies eh? :lol:

) as for you... You seem to post moderately and always with a sense of... I don't know, leadership. That's good. We need people like that to kick life into the game. I feel you are likely town.

by **Metsfanmax** on Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:07 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:My reads on the town are that I want to see several people post more (nag/benga and others to a lesser extent) and I have a gut feeling about either IB or mets, but I'm not sure. (I'm good at maing enemies eh? ) as for you... You seem to post moderately and always with a sense of... I don't know, leadership. That's good. We need people like that to kick life into the game. I feel you are likely town.

Not to get too meta, but certain players have a habit of acting like a leader in general. This can be a good cover for mafia if the player is skillful at this.

Jonty125's Mad Mafia Game Over

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