Congrats to FreeFalling123, our new Conqueror!

[BigBallinStalin]

The worse thing about Armstrong is the way he denied being a cheat and how insulting he was towards french people because french journalists were telling the truth about him. He was so convincing that all americans believed him and that gave us the worse sore loser reputation. I remember some stand up comedy jokes by that asshat robin williams. Funny how he didn t show up to apologize once armstrong was forced to tell the truth.

Armstrong was really a disgusting person, he was a bully towards his teammates, he never tried to back up floyd landis when he got caught; he pulled some political strings to keep his cheatings secret, it was all about himself and he didn t care how much damage his lies would bring. When he had to admit he really had no choice, too many evidence. There were already enough evidence a few years back but for some reason the french were liars.

Hey, it worked for Clinton, so why not?

[betiko]

For clinton it was a blowjob, which was no one s business except hilary's. Clinton shouldn t even have answered those questions about his private life. His job was to take the best decisions for his country, not to be america s best husband.

Armstrong decided to build all his career on lies, deliberately. Clinton just got in a situation where he thought he was forced to lie and that was a bad call. Americans would ve probably forgiven if he had been honnest.

[iAmCaffeine]

The worse thing about Armstrong is the way he denied being a cheat and how insulting he was towards french people because french journalists were telling the truth about him. He was so convincing that all americans believed him and that gave us the worse sore loser reputation. I remember some stand up comedy jokes by that asshat robin williams. Funny how he didn t show up to apologize once armstrong was forced to tell the truth.

Armstrong was really a disgusting person, he was a bully towards his teammates, he never tried to back up floyd landis when he got caught; he pulled some political strings to keep his cheatings secret, it was all about himself and he didn t care how much damage his lies would bring. When he had to admit he really had no choice, too many evidence. There were already enough evidence a few years back but for some reason the french were liars.

Your view is biased. The vast majority of French, and perhaps Western European, people interested in cycling hated Armstrong and were always trying to catch him out for something. I'm not surprised by how he initially reacted.

To answer BBS' point about possible abuse leading to a new law/rule. I believe that would fall under gross abuse of the game in the first place. Unfortunately, I believe the 'gross abuse of the game rule' is treated more like a list of abuses that have happened and now been outlawed but aren't specified in the rest of the rules, rather than covering any type of abuse. So, when someone finds a new loophole and it's determined gross abuse, it gets added to the list but there is no punishment unless the offence is repeated.

[betiko]

The worse thing about Armstrong is the way he denied being a cheat and how insulting he was towards french people because french journalists were telling the truth about him. He was so convincing that all americans believed him and that gave us the worse sore loser reputation. I remember some stand up comedy jokes by that asshat robin williams. Funny how he didn t show up to apologize once armstrong was forced to tell the truth.

Armstrong was really a disgusting person, he was a bully towards his teammates, he never tried to back up floyd landis when he got caught; he pulled some political strings to keep his cheatings secret, it was all about himself and he didn t care how much damage his lies would bring. When he had to admit he really had no choice, too many evidence. There were already enough evidence a few years back but for some reason the french were liars.

Your view is biased. The vast majority of French, and perhaps Western European, people interested in cycling hated Armstrong and were always trying to catch him out for something. I'm not surprised by how he initially reacted.

To answer BBS' point about possible abuse leading to a new law/rule. I believe that would fall under gross abuse of the game in the first place. Unfortunately, I believe the 'gross abuse of the game rule' is treated more like a list of abuses that have happened and now been outlawed but aren't specified in the rest of the rules, rather than covering any type of abuse. So, when someone finds a new loophole and it's determined gross abuse, it gets added to the list but there is no punishment unless the offence is repeated.

well because it was so obvious his performances were tainted... and the ones from his team! the guy was a very average cyclist in a quite average team and suddely him and all his usual lieutenants became gods compared to the rest. This happening in the late 90s early 2000 when so many cheating scandals were revealed year after year. Anyone following the sport knew that what was happening was completely wrong. He was obviously cheating and then had this "f*ck you" attitude towards any journalist that wasn't american. Since it wasn't a very popular sport in the US, americans couldn't see what people in countries following cycling could see. And Lance's story was a very beautiful one... a guy recovering from a testicle cancer that suddenly becomes the best cyclist in history, out of the blue. a nice fairy tale. His urine samples had been kept, and once the counter doping technology was advanced enough to detect products that weren't detectable at the time the samples were taken, the EPO was found. And during a few years Lance managed to continue the lie, pretexting that those results were not true and those labs were just setting him up. Thanks god the USDA was there to put him in his place.

I seriously don't remember in sports history someone guilty of such long term cheating.

[iAmCaffeine]

The worse thing about Armstrong is the way he denied being a cheat and how insulting he was towards french people because french journalists were telling the truth about him. He was so convincing that all americans believed him and that gave us the worse sore loser reputation. I remember some stand up comedy jokes by that asshat robin williams. Funny how he didn t show up to apologize once armstrong was forced to tell the truth.

Armstrong was really a disgusting person, he was a bully towards his teammates, he never tried to back up floyd landis when he got caught; he pulled some political strings to keep his cheatings secret, it was all about himself and he didn t care how much damage his lies would bring. When he had to admit he really had no choice, too many evidence. There were already enough evidence a few years back but for some reason the french were liars.

Your view is biased. The vast majority of French, and perhaps Western European, people interested in cycling hated Armstrong and were always trying to catch him out for something. I'm not surprised by how he initially reacted.

To answer BBS' point about possible abuse leading to a new law/rule. I believe that would fall under gross abuse of the game in the first place. Unfortunately, I believe the 'gross abuse of the game rule' is treated more like a list of abuses that have happened and now been outlawed but aren't specified in the rest of the rules, rather than covering any type of abuse. So, when someone finds a new loophole and it's determined gross abuse, it gets added to the list but there is no punishment unless the offence is repeated.

well because it was so obvious his performances were tainted... and the ones from his team! the guy was a very average cyclist in a quite average team and suddely him and all his usual lieutenants became gods compared to the rest. This happening in the late 90s early 2000 when so many cheating scandals were revealed year after year. Anyone following the sport knew that what was happening was completely wrong. He was obviously cheating and then had this "f*ck you" attitude towards any journalist that wasn't american. Since it wasn't a very popular sport in the US, americans couldn't see what people in countries following cycling could see. And Lance's story was a very beautiful one... a guy recovering from a testicle cancer that suddenly becomes the best cyclist in history, out of the blue. a nice fairy tale. His urine samples had been kept, and once the counter doping technology was advanced enough to detect products that weren't detectable at the time the samples were taken, the EPO was found. And during a few years Lance managed to continue the lie, pretexting that those results were not true and those labs were just setting him up. Thanks god the USDA was there to put him in his place.

I seriously don't remember in sports history someone guilty of such long term cheating.

This is my last point on this because your nationality is making you biased. He is not an average cyclist. Drugs or not he overcame cancer twice and won. It takes more than drugs to achieve that. Also, all the top cyclists at the time were using drugs too.

[Dukasaur]

The worse thing about Armstrong is the way he denied being a cheat and how insulting he was towards french people because french journalists were telling the truth about him. He was so convincing that all americans believed him and that gave us the worse sore loser reputation. I remember some stand up comedy jokes by that asshat robin williams. Funny how he didn t show up to apologize once armstrong was forced to tell the truth.

Armstrong was really a disgusting person, he was a bully towards his teammates, he never tried to back up floyd landis when he got caught; he pulled some political strings to keep his cheatings secret, it was all about himself and he didn t care how much damage his lies would bring. When he had to admit he really had no choice, too many evidence. There were already enough evidence a few years back but for some reason the french were liars.

Your view is biased. The vast majority of French, and perhaps Western European, people interested in cycling hated Armstrong and were always trying to catch him out for something. I'm not surprised by how he initially reacted.

To answer BBS' point about possible abuse leading to a new law/rule. I believe that would fall under gross abuse of the game in the first place. Unfortunately, I believe the 'gross abuse of the game rule' is treated more like a list of abuses that have happened and now been outlawed but aren't specified in the rest of the rules, rather than covering any type of abuse. So, when someone finds a new loophole and it's determined gross abuse, it gets added to the list but there is no punishment unless the offence is repeated.

well because it was so obvious his performances were tainted... and the ones from his team! the guy was a very average cyclist in a quite average team and suddely him and all his usual lieutenants became gods compared to the rest. This happening in the late 90s early 2000 when so many cheating scandals were revealed year after year. Anyone following the sport knew that what was happening was completely wrong. He was obviously cheating and then had this "f*ck you" attitude towards any journalist that wasn't american. Since it wasn't a very popular sport in the US, americans couldn't see what people in countries following cycling could see. And Lance's story was a very beautiful one... a guy recovering from a testicle cancer that suddenly becomes the best cyclist in history, out of the blue. a nice fairy tale. His urine samples had been kept, and once the counter doping technology was advanced enough to detect products that weren't detectable at the time the samples were taken, the EPO was found. And during a few years Lance managed to continue the lie, pretexting that those results were not true and those labs were just setting him up. Thanks god the USDA was there to put him in his place.

I seriously don't remember in sports history someone guilty of such long term cheating.

This is my last point on this because your nationality is making you biased. He is not an average cyclist. Drugs or not he overcame cancer twice and won. It takes more than drugs to achieve that. Also, all the top cyclists at the time were using drugs too.

This is hilarious. You want to crucify someone who took a few turns for a friend in an online game with no cash prizes, but you are ready to go to the wall to defend a proven con-man, a professional athlete who knowingly and deliberately cheated for more than 10 years, earned millions from his cheating, slandered and libelled anyone who questioned him, and maliciously destroyed the careers of former team-mates who refused to back up his lies.

[iAmCaffeine]

The worse thing about Armstrong is the way he denied being a cheat and how insulting he was towards french people because french journalists were telling the truth about him. He was so convincing that all americans believed him and that gave us the worse sore loser reputation. I remember some stand up comedy jokes by that asshat robin williams. Funny how he didn t show up to apologize once armstrong was forced to tell the truth.

Armstrong was really a disgusting person, he was a bully towards his teammates, he never tried to back up floyd landis when he got caught; he pulled some political strings to keep his cheatings secret, it was all about himself and he didn t care how much damage his lies would bring. When he had to admit he really had no choice, too many evidence. There were already enough evidence a few years back but for some reason the french were liars.

Your view is biased. The vast majority of French, and perhaps Western European, people interested in cycling hated Armstrong and were always trying to catch him out for something. I'm not surprised by how he initially reacted.

To answer BBS' point about possible abuse leading to a new law/rule. I believe that would fall under gross abuse of the game in the first place. Unfortunately, I believe the 'gross abuse of the game rule' is treated more like a list of abuses that have happened and now been outlawed but aren't specified in the rest of the rules, rather than covering any type of abuse. So, when someone finds a new loophole and it's determined gross abuse, it gets added to the list but there is no punishment unless the offence is repeated.

well because it was so obvious his performances were tainted... and the ones from his team! the guy was a very average cyclist in a quite average team and suddely him and all his usual lieutenants became gods compared to the rest. This happening in the late 90s early 2000 when so many cheating scandals were revealed year after year. Anyone following the sport knew that what was happening was completely wrong. He was obviously cheating and then had this "f*ck you" attitude towards any journalist that wasn't american. Since it wasn't a very popular sport in the US, americans couldn't see what people in countries following cycling could see. And Lance's story was a very beautiful one... a guy recovering from a testicle cancer that suddenly becomes the best cyclist in history, out of the blue. a nice fairy tale. His urine samples had been kept, and once the counter doping technology was advanced enough to detect products that weren't detectable at the time the samples were taken, the EPO was found. And during a few years Lance managed to continue the lie, pretexting that those results were not true and those labs were just setting him up. Thanks god the USDA was there to put him in his place.

I seriously don't remember in sports history someone guilty of such long term cheating.

This is my last point on this because your nationality is making you biased. He is not an average cyclist. Drugs or not he overcame cancer twice and won. It takes more than drugs to achieve that. Also, all the top cyclists at the time were using drugs too.

This is hilarious. You want to crucify someone who took a few turns for a friend in an online game with no cash prizes, but you are ready to go to the wall to defend a proven con-man, a professional athlete who knowingly and deliberately cheated for more than 10 years, earned millions from his cheating, slandered and libelled anyone who questioned him, and maliciously destroyed the careers of former team-mates who refused to back up his lies.

No. You're way off the mark.

I do not have any personal issue with FF123 and happily agree he's a very good player. I take issue with his "legitimate" Conqueror status and his cheating.

I am also not defending Lance Armstrong's actions. He was stupid but he was still very good, just like FF123. I am arguing about Armstrong with betty because he has a biased view on the situation.

[universalchiro]

Seems most athletes in cycling were utilizing some performance enhancing element. So if most were cheating, then how did one cheat beat another cheat? Seems to me that Armstrong's testicular cancertreatment might reveal the answer. Potentially while undergoing radiation treatment, sensory nerves relaying information to the brain of pain from lactic acid build up were impaired from delivering efficient information.

So while other riders' brains were inundated with sensory overload of pain from lactic acid build up, Armstrong's brain was not perceiving the same information because his sensory nerves innervating his lower extremities were radiated and subsequently not effectively sending 100% of the information.

Food for thought of why Armstrong's performance enhancement was superior to all other cyclist's performance enhancement for 6-7 years straight.

[betiko]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

[loutil]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

That is silly. The primary method of cheating in cycling is blood doping using Epogen. They all do it. Well, anyone who is competitive does it. About 10 years ago a team was formed of top cyclists who swore off the drugs and promised to compete at a high level without cheating. They failed and could not come close to competing as they were the only clean cyclists.

[loutil]

For clinton it was a blowjob, which was no one s business except hilary's. Clinton shouldn t even have answered those questions about his private life. His job was to take the best decisions for his country, not to be america s best husband.

Armstrong decided to build all his career on lies, deliberately. Clinton just got in a situation where he thought he was forced to lie and that was a bad call. Americans would ve probably forgiven if he had been honnest.

LOL...it was more than just a blow job. It was about sexual harassment as well. Any boss or executive, in the real world, who had sex of any kind with a lower level employee would be fired and likely sued for sexual harassment. It was textbook. Further, he then lied about it under oath. Which is grounds for disbarment. He then completed his pathetic behavior by having the women in his cabinet go out and defend his innocence. Lance Armstrong was a cyclist doing the same thing that every other cyclist was doing. He lied about it just as every other cyclist lies about it. Clinton was President of the United States. Sorry, but he is held to higher standard than a PED enhanced athlete...

[rhp 1]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

first.. what FF did is obviously wrong, duh.. let's get passed that for a second as he was reprimanded for it...

as to your "point"

nice sentiment, but factually incorrect.... you assume he would have played all of those speeders on his account which is assuming far too much, in fact I'd argue he wouldn't have.. if you have other reasons why you think so, by all means, post them... where this argument fails (as in many of the neg-FF posts), is it doesn't take into account the fact that if he were trying for conq, he'd have controlled his games more carefully (as all conquerers do). it also assumes that he would not have been able to elevate his score "legitimately" on his own account.... both omissions render your reasoning suspect @ best...

[iAmCaffeine]

He was trying for conqueror.

[jdw35]

Just to make things clear here, FF did not play 100's of games on Docs account lol So idk what you are smoking betiko

[rhp 1]

He was trying for conqueror.

And ur point is what?

Doesnt dispute anything I said

[iAmCaffeine]

He was trying for conqueror.

And ur point is what?

Doesnt dispute anything I said

I wasn't disputing anything you'd said mate. It's just you implied he wasn't trying for Conq'.

Also, we can disregard anything jdw says.

[rhp 1]

He was trying for conqueror.

And ur point is what?

Doesnt dispute anything I said

I wasn't disputing anything you'd said mate. It's just you implied he wasn't trying for Conq'.

Also, we can disregard anything jdw says.

Lol

[betiko]

Just to make things clear here, FF did not play 100's of games on Docs account lol So idk what you are smoking betiko

If you go on his games played, the entire page are speeders with very close game numbers and tons of freestyle which is not what doc usually plays. I didn t click on the next page, but that last page looks like ff s job.

[betiko]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

That is silly. The primary method of cheating in cycling is blood doping using Epogen. They all do it. Well, anyone who is competitive does it. About 10 years ago a team was formed of top cyclists who swore off the drugs and promised to compete at a high level without cheating. They failed and could not come close to competing as they were the only clean cyclists.

Go back to discuss about sports you know. Almost all cyclists using doping products have admitted doing it pretty easily once retired. Armstrong just stood on his position and was absolutely ridiculous 10 years later.
The 90s 2000s were just the eldorado of doping, even if it has always existed and it always will. And no, sorry to inform you that they don t all use epo. They took armstrong s titles and didn t give them to anyone though, because the next guys in line were convinced cheaters too. But there were tons of honest guys in those days too. I remember how some of these honest guys were bullied by armstrong and his teammates whenever they opened their mouth about it. Armstrong s conduct was the one of a mafia godfather, and some clean cyclists from that era ended up with depression because of the pressures received to shut their mouth.
Also, some doping was organized by the team (take festina in 99 which was the first huge scandal) some others are private initiatives and the teammates don t know anything about it (like the puerta doctor case that administrated auto transfusions ect)

Regarding clinton: from my understanding Monica was pretty much into bill and all this happened under mutual consent. Sexual harassment happens when someone takes advantage of his hierarchical position to get sexual favours. I might be wrong, it was a long time ago but I don t remember about monica forced implicitly to do anything. This was absolutely a private matter that was no one s business.

[betiko]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

first.. what FF did is obviously wrong, duh.. let's get passed that for a second as he was reprimanded for it...

as to your "point"

nice sentiment, but factually incorrect.... you assume he would have played all of those speeders on his account which is assuming far too much, in fact I'd argue he wouldn't have.. if you have other reasons why you think so, by all means, post them... where this argument fails (as in many of the neg-FF posts), is it doesn't take into account the fact that if he were trying for conq, he'd have controlled his games more carefully (as all conquerers do). it also assumes that he would not have been able to elevate his score "legitimately" on his own account.... both omissions render your reasoning suspect @ best...

Fair point. But what is the second point you dispute by the way?
Also maybe you didn t follow the conversation, but i was one of the very few defending FF until I looked at doc dice s account and saw that the amount of games played by FF was outrageously higher that what I though.

[rhp 1]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

first.. what FF did is obviously wrong, duh.. let's get passed that for a second as he was reprimanded for it...

as to your "point"

nice sentiment, but factually incorrect.... you assume he would have played all of those speeders on his account which is assuming far too much, in fact I'd argue he wouldn't have.. if you have other reasons why you think so, by all means, post them... where this argument fails (as in many of the neg-FF posts), is it doesn't take into account the fact that if he were trying for conq, he'd have controlled his games more carefully (as all conquerers do). it also assumes that he would not have been able to elevate his score "legitimately" on his own account.... both omissions render your reasoning suspect @ best...

Fair point. But what is the second point you dispute by the way?
Also maybe you didn t follow the conversation, but i was one of the very few defending FF until I looked at doc dice s account and saw that the amount of games played by FF was outrageously higher that what I though.

I realize that ... and i was following Betiko.. but that last comment is still your last comment, right? lol... and it makes no difference to me how many games he played on another account... that, imo, doesn't affect my point... his games on another account certainly didn't help HIS account's score, and there's no way to know if his account's score would have decreased, because there is no way to say how many games he'd have played on his account, nor is it possible to imagine how many of those theoretical games he would have won or lost... I guess my overall point here is that to call his score illegitimate doesn't make a lot of sense to me.. ofc he was an idiot for playing on someone else's account, but applying that fiasco to the status of his account is quite a stretch...

one more thing... it is going to be a unique event when someone reaches conquerer and is widely believed by the masses to be "legit"... there are many reasons for this... jealousy, tendencies of people to attack those at the top, people are bored and have nothing better to do, legitimate concerns, idiots... the list goes on and on... the fact remains, imo, no player can reach the top here without doing something, that some (or many, or most) will find illegitimate... comes with the territory...

[loutil]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

That is silly. The primary method of cheating in cycling is blood doping using Epogen. They all do it. Well, anyone who is competitive does it. About 10 years ago a team was formed of top cyclists who swore off the drugs and promised to compete at a high level without cheating. They failed and could not come close to competing as they were the only clean cyclists.

Go back to discuss about sports you know. Almost all cyclists using doping products have admitted doing it pretty easily once retired. Armstrong just stood on his position and was absolutely ridiculous 10 years later.
The 90s 2000s were just the eldorado of doping, even if it has always existed and it always will. And no, sorry to inform you that they don t all use epo. They took armstrong s titles and didn t give them to anyone though, because the next guys in line were convinced cheaters too. But there were tons of honest guys in those days too. I remember how some of these honest guys were bullied by armstrong and his teammates whenever they opened their mouth about it. Armstrong s conduct was the one of a mafia godfather, and some clean cyclists from that era ended up with depression because of the pressures received to shut their mouth.
Also, some doping was organized by the team (take festina in 99 which was the first huge scandal) some others are private initiatives and the teammates don t know anything about it (like the puerta doctor case that administrated auto transfusions ect)

Regarding clinton: from my understanding Monica was pretty much into bill and all this happened under mutual consent. Sexual harassment happens when someone takes advantage of his hierarchical position to get sexual favours. I might be wrong, it was a long time ago but I don t remember about monica forced implicitly to do anything. This was absolutely a private matter that was no one s business.

Let me correct my earlier statement. Any rider who has been competitive in the last 20 years was blood doping. Further, you have NO idea how many retired cyclists did dope and not admit it. I doubt there is even a top 10 finisher in the past 20 years who was clean. I know, as you are French, that you have a strong bias against Armstrong. It burns you that an American dominated your sport. But, whether you like it or not, he was doing nothing different than all the others top cyclists.
Regarding Clinton: it does not require Bill to have "forced" Monica for it to be harassment. It is harassment and an abuse of power for the President to be having sex with an intern. Further, Bill's actions were not a private matter as they happened in the Oval Office. In addition, Bill Clinton was being sued by Paula Jones for sexual harassment. During the trial, while under oath, Clinton denied having sex with Lewinsky. That is perjury and a very public matter. In fact, it was the basis for the articles of impeachment drawn up against Clinton. I could also add that Kathleen Wiley accused Clinton of inappropriate behavior and Juanita Broaddrick accused him of raping her. I guess, for you, those are private matters as well?

[betiko]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

That is silly. The primary method of cheating in cycling is blood doping using Epogen. They all do it. Well, anyone who is competitive does it. About 10 years ago a team was formed of top cyclists who swore off the drugs and promised to compete at a high level without cheating. They failed and could not come close to competing as they were the only clean cyclists.

Go back to discuss about sports you know. Almost all cyclists using doping products have admitted doing it pretty easily once retired. Armstrong just stood on his position and was absolutely ridiculous 10 years later.
The 90s 2000s were just the eldorado of doping, even if it has always existed and it always will. And no, sorry to inform you that they don t all use epo. They took armstrong s titles and didn t give them to anyone though, because the next guys in line were convinced cheaters too. But there were tons of honest guys in those days too. I remember how some of these honest guys were bullied by armstrong and his teammates whenever they opened their mouth about it. Armstrong s conduct was the one of a mafia godfather, and some clean cyclists from that era ended up with depression because of the pressures received to shut their mouth.
Also, some doping was organized by the team (take festina in 99 which was the first huge scandal) some others are private initiatives and the teammates don t know anything about it (like the puerta doctor case that administrated auto transfusions ect)

Regarding clinton: from my understanding Monica was pretty much into bill and all this happened under mutual consent. Sexual harassment happens when someone takes advantage of his hierarchical position to get sexual favours. I might be wrong, it was a long time ago but I don t remember about monica forced implicitly to do anything. This was absolutely a private matter that was no one s business.

Let me correct my earlier statement. Any rider who has been competitive in the last 20 years was blood doping. Further, you have NO idea how many retired cyclists did dope and not admit it. I doubt there is even a top 10 finisher in the past 20 years who was clean. I know, as you are French, that you have a strong bias against Armstrong. It burns you that an American dominated your sport. But, whether you like it or not, he was doing nothing different than all the others top cyclists.
Regarding Clinton: it does not require Bill to have "forced" Monica for it to be harassment. It is harassment and an abuse of power for the President to be having sex with an intern. Further, Bill's actions were not a private matter as they happened in the Oval Office. In addition, Bill Clinton was being sued by Paula Jones for sexual harassment. During the trial, while under oath, Clinton denied having sex with Lewinsky. That is perjury and a very public matter. In fact, it was the basis for the articles of impeachment drawn up against Clinton. I could also add that Kathleen Wiley accused Clinton of inappropriate behavior and Juanita Broaddrick accused him of raping her. I guess, for you, those are private matters as well?

lol, you have no idea of what you are talking about regarding cycling, so you might as well drop it. Each time, and whatever the nationality, the UCI strips a tour de france title or proves a winner cheated, no matter the nationality (except for germans) we hear the same old bullshit, that some evil biaised french are trying to taint their national pride out of jealousy. Get over yourself.

Anyways, you are pretty high on the list of CC cheaters that slipped through the net yourself, so no wonder you have no problem with what armstrong did.
And you remind me of clinton. You asked all your employees to play you in your work hours; of course you won all the games. sounds like asking for a BJ in the oval office.

[rhp 1]

boom.. lol

[loutil]

Yes, chiro's analysis is very true, but I also think that lance had the best "mad scientists" and the most efficient products.
But to be fair lance had an exceptional lung capacity too.

But back on FF; if you look at doc dice s account, it looks like he has played hundreds of speeders with it, so yeah, he wouldn t ve achieved that score with his own account. I had no idea the abuse was in such proportions.

That is silly. The primary method of cheating in cycling is blood doping using Epogen. They all do it. Well, anyone who is competitive does it. About 10 years ago a team was formed of top cyclists who swore off the drugs and promised to compete at a high level without cheating. They failed and could not come close to competing as they were the only clean cyclists.

Go back to discuss about sports you know. Almost all cyclists using doping products have admitted doing it pretty easily once retired. Armstrong just stood on his position and was absolutely ridiculous 10 years later.
The 90s 2000s were just the eldorado of doping, even if it has always existed and it always will. And no, sorry to inform you that they don t all use epo. They took armstrong s titles and didn t give them to anyone though, because the next guys in line were convinced cheaters too. But there were tons of honest guys in those days too. I remember how some of these honest guys were bullied by armstrong and his teammates whenever they opened their mouth about it. Armstrong s conduct was the one of a mafia godfather, and some clean cyclists from that era ended up with depression because of the pressures received to shut their mouth.
Also, some doping was organized by the team (take festina in 99 which was the first huge scandal) some others are private initiatives and the teammates don t know anything about it (like the puerta doctor case that administrated auto transfusions ect)

Regarding clinton: from my understanding Monica was pretty much into bill and all this happened under mutual consent. Sexual harassment happens when someone takes advantage of his hierarchical position to get sexual favours. I might be wrong, it was a long time ago but I don t remember about monica forced implicitly to do anything. This was absolutely a private matter that was no one s business.

Let me correct my earlier statement. Any rider who has been competitive in the last 20 years was blood doping. Further, you have NO idea how many retired cyclists did dope and not admit it. I doubt there is even a top 10 finisher in the past 20 years who was clean. I know, as you are French, that you have a strong bias against Armstrong. It burns you that an American dominated your sport. But, whether you like it or not, he was doing nothing different than all the others top cyclists.
Regarding Clinton: it does not require Bill to have "forced" Monica for it to be harassment. It is harassment and an abuse of power for the President to be having sex with an intern. Further, Bill's actions were not a private matter as they happened in the Oval Office. In addition, Bill Clinton was being sued by Paula Jones for sexual harassment. During the trial, while under oath, Clinton denied having sex with Lewinsky. That is perjury and a very public matter. In fact, it was the basis for the articles of impeachment drawn up against Clinton. I could also add that Kathleen Wiley accused Clinton of inappropriate behavior and Juanita Broaddrick accused him of raping her. I guess, for you, those are private matters as well?

lol, you have no idea of what you are talking about regarding cycling, so you might as well drop it. Each time, and whatever the nationality, the UCI strips a tour de france title or proves a winner cheated, no matter the nationality (except for germans) we hear the same old bullshit, that some evil biaised french are trying to taint their national pride out of jealousy. Get over yourself.

Anyways, you are pretty high on the list of CC cheaters that slipped through the net yourself, so no wonder you have no problem with what armstrong did.
And you remind me of clinton. You asked all your employees to play you in your work hours; of course you won all the games. sounds like asking for a BJ in the oval office.

You, high up on your mighty pedestal, do not believe I know what I am talking about...and yet, you have no idea what I do and do not know. I never said the French are biased. I said you were. I believe the French cyclists cheat just like every other rider. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend there are competitive cyclists who are clean if that helps you sleep at night.
Further, I never said I had no problems with what Armstrong did. As you clearly lack in reading comprehension I will say it again: he was doing nothing different than all the other cyclists. That does not excuse his behavior. It does, however, make me laugh when I hear French idiots spout off about him being dirty. Pot meet kettle.
Finally, this is not the first time you have called me a cheater. Something I suspect you would not have the courage to do face to face . I know you present your arrogant self to be arbiter and police for this online game, but in fact you are not. If you knew me even a little bit you would know how absurd your accusations are. For the record, I did not ask "all my employees" to play as I have over 48. I am 50 years old and to be honest the idea of cheating in a pixelated world in meaningless games is quite foreign to me. You can make all the accusations you like and you can continue with your presumptive position as that is your right. I apologize for even responding to you as I should know better. As the saying goes...never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Well done