CHRISTIANS SHOULD CONFORM TO THE WORLD!

[Aegnor]

It was also me who said religion debates are futile, and in my case, boring. And that's why I don't wish to discuss it. If you have a problem with that, you are more than welcome to look for your answers elsewhere.

[gimpyThewonder]

It was also me who said religion debates are futile, and in my case, boring. And that's why I don't wish to discuss it.

not to be a smart-ass but if what you say above is true why have you posted like 4 times in the thread

[Jafnhár]

You fail to see how illogical it is to start a discussion of religion and then claim it is futile to continue the discussion.

[Aegnor]

You fail to see how illogical it is to start a discussion of religion and then claim it is futile to continue the discussion.

I haven't started this discussion, on the contrary, I'm trying to kill it. Obviously I failed, since more and more people seem interested in what I said. You won't drag me into it however.

[jay_a2j]

You won't drag me into it however.

lol.... been there done that.....next!

[got tonkaed]

Admittedly this is half joking....but here is why christians should conform to the world (even more so if they can find ways to hold on to their core beliefs while doing so)

Admittedly now more than ever, we are in an increasingly competitive world economically. Likewise, with the growth of international organizations to watchdog the world system, in many cases, national soverignty is also being diminshed. The simple reality is, any type of movement that resists some of the demands of the market, is in a through danger of being crushed.

Fortunatly for the christian right (here i dip into fundamentalism) they seem to actually support many neoliberal economic views. Many have wrote for a variety of reasons, that the expansion of capitalism over the entire world, helps pave the way for Christianity to move through to places where it might have been more difficult logistically to try and win over souls. Frequetly ive come across the notion in some recent Christian thinking about the old proposition that God doesnt mind one having just a little bit of wealth (a notion that is combated, but one that is still out there) and that the system will help in this process.

However despite the fact that in some cases some christian interpretations ally with some of the neoliberal movement, some of the social policy is problematic to movement into the economic game. Specificially some of the social views are very rigid and do not provide an oppertunity to be as easily integrated into the workforce. Although not everyone is going to need evolution to excel in their job, does one assume that students of the sciences in Kansas are currently on the same level as their competitors in Europe? Certainly no, the debate over what to teach in science courses ultimatly appears to only slow student progress, which is not helpful in the current globalization. Furthermore, many of the sex policies which are introduced by conservative christians, put them at odds with many other groups, something that makes cooperation increasingly difficult, and cooperation is one of the essential elements of finding success, one has to outcompete those they are in business again, and cooperation with third parties will help. However the bigger problem is simply that of ideology (a problem many groups have not just christian). In an environment where creativity is essential, as it is in many cases adapt or die in the jobs that will be of some value to americans over the next few decades (a consequence of the gradual change to a service economy)...when an individual holds views that are rigid ideologically, one cannot flex the intellectual muscles as creatively when they are constrained.

Im not saying any of those individual things will keep someone out of a job, but there is a possibility that a combination of things will make an individual less competitive. Likewise, when one knows that you view someone as eternally damned if they dont believe the same thing as you, it isnt so easy to work along side such a person. And if you believe that you must be saved to go to heaven, it does not help but imply that one who is not saved is damned. Thats part of the belief system, and certainly many would have a tough time ever believing that they were percieved as equal as someone who would believe such a thing.

Lastly, im not saying that Christianity has to be integrated into everything else. The Christianity that i prefer is one that calls society into question, one who asks whether or not we are turning swords into ploughshares, or if we are providing for those who are less fortunate. The social gospel of christianity must always stand out from integration if it is to provide some value, and by extension provide value for the religion as a whole. That should not be integrated. At the same time, there will always be a cost for standing aside of the current system, and if one doesnt recognize there is a cost, they may not be as ready to understand why things are the way that they are.

Nice blog....

[jay_a2j]

Nice post got tonkaed. Well thought out.

[hecter]

Does anybody else find jays avatar ironic?

[jay_a2j]

Does anybody else find jays avatar ironic?

No, just you Hector.

[Huckleberryhound]

Lets start a thread on why Christians should not hold to their outdated, intolerant views. Why Christians should adapt to the world today. Why they should "just do what everyone else is doing".

They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all.

but, but, but thats what WE are saying with the showing of Brokeback Mountain in school. This will never do.... I'd like some reasonable, well thought out views on why we Christians should not force our beliefs on others, but the world can force theirs on us. Come on, there must be some takers!

What has brokeback mountain go tot do with me.

I don't force my opinions on anyone, and i expect the same in return. The world isn't forcing it's opinion on you dude, and maybe if you turned off your TV for a while and lived your life for a bit you might realise that. If you want to stand on the tallest mountain and preach your own brand of sedative thinking, fine....because i'm not on the tallest mountain, i'm here.

And don't think i'm aiming that statement solely at christians, there are no lions in my auditorium. Everyone has the right to an opinion, but they don't have a right to talk down to me about how i believe (or not believe, as the case may be).

[2dimes]

22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.

23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

[gimpyThewonder]

Does anybody else find jays avatar ironic?

No, just you Hector.

actually that was pretty much the first thing i thought when i saw it

[jay_a2j]

They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all.

Does anyone follow me at all? The above quote, "They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all." Is exactly my point!

So you don't want some guy coming up to you on the street telling you "Repent! Or you will go to hell!" Understood. You would prefer that they believe what they want to believe but not to "force" it on you. Fine.

What I am trying to convey, is that Christians would like the same thing in return. If homosexuality works for you. Great! If you don't find anything wrong with that lifestyle. Wonderful. Just do not "force " it on my children at school.



This is where Brokeback comes in. Follow?

[Huckleberryhound]

They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all.

Does anyone follow me at all? The above quote, "They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all." Is exactly my point!

So you don't want some guy coming up to you on the street telling you "Repent! Or you will go to hell!" Understood. You would prefer that they believe what they want to believe but not to "force" it on you. Fine.

What I am trying to convey, is that Christians would like the same thing in return. If homosexuality works for you. Great! If you don't find anything wrong with that lifestyle. Wonderful. Just do not "force " it on my children at school.



This is where Brokeback comes in. Follow?

I'll ask you again....what has that got to do with me ?

I am Scottish, and i live in Ireland, there is no showing of Brokeback mountain, bridge over the river quai, or Lord of the rings in any of the schools in my country.

Your thread title is misleading to say the least....All you seem to want to do is complain about some crap movie that i've never seen, and maybe the place for you to make your opinions known would be


http://www.godhatesfags,com

??

You should rename your title ....
" i want to bitch about that homo film under the guise of theological debate"
, then i might understand what the hell you are gibbering about.

[jay_a2j]

ooops.....messed that up

[Huckleberryhound]

We have a saying in the US (or at least here in NY).If it doesn't apply, let it fly. And maybe you should try http://www.Goddoesnthatefags.bible. Nice lumping all us Christians in a nice little stereotypical clump. Get out more will ya?

Do you dodge the issue for a living ?

I merely ask you to tell me some "non-brokeback mountain" reason why i should not hold my own belief.....you must be a politician, right.

Point out anywhere i've clumped anyone anywhere and i'll give you a banana, or any fruity product of you desire.

[Anarchist]

Whats the academic purpose of Brokeback mountain?

Personally I feel school is supposed to educate us about the world we live in and how to survive in it, Ofcourse I would hope that our children are being taught to think for themselves. Something that I know scares the conservatives. Ignorance should be taught at home not at school,same with parental advisory.

As for Jays Avater- I actually thought
"Liberalism:The fear someone somewhere can help themselves "
was a pretty good one, ofcourse thats when I thought jay was a liberal(for about 5 seconds)

[jay_a2j]

We have a saying in the US (or at least here in NY).If it doesn't apply, let it fly. And maybe you should try http://www.Goddoesnthatefags.bible. Nice lumping all us Christians in a nice little stereotypical clump. Get out more will ya?

Do you dodge the issue for a living ?

I merely ask you to tell me some "non-brokeback mountain" reason why i should not hold my own belief.....you must be a politician, right.

Point out anywhere i've clumped anyone anywhere and i'll give you a banana, or any fruity porduct of you desire.

You can hold your belief! No one said you couldn't! I never gave you a brokeback or non-brokeback reason...because there isn't one! Show me where I said "Huckleberryhound shouldn't hold that belief"???? (Please tell me you aren't under the influence of any mind-altering drugs)

You said and I quote:

maybe the place for you to make your opinions known would be


http://www.godhatesfags,com

And I NEVER said I hated "fags", so it was obviously a stereotype of CHRISTIANS. (I'll take a pomegranate, I've always like them)


Oh, I had thought about going into politics at one point...but no.

[Huckleberryhound]

I replied to a thread title that suggested that you were looking for responses to why a christian should or should not conform to society.

I made my opinion, and can you find your reply ???? notice anything gay and cowboyish about it ?

As for clumping all christians together, i wasn't...i was clumping you with the westboro church, no other christians were hurt in the making of that post...stop being so god darn meladramatic.

You lose the pomegranite i'm afraid.

[luns101]

I wish Kobe Bryant would conform to the rest of the Lakers.

[jay_a2j]

I wish Kobe Bryant would conform to the rest of the Lakers.

lol

[jay_a2j]

I replied to a thread title that suggested that you were looking for responses to why a christian should or should not conform to society.

I made my opinion, and can you find your reply ???? notice anything gay and cowboyish about it ?

As for clumping all christians together, i wasn't...i was clumping you with the westboro church, no other christians were hurt in the making of that post...stop being so god darn meladramatic.

You lose the pomegranite i'm afraid.

If it doesn't apply, let it fly.

Wow, some people are so stuck on themselves.

[Nephilim]

They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all.

Does anyone follow me at all? The above quote, "They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all." Is exactly my point!

So you don't want some guy coming up to you on the street telling you "Repent! Or you will go to hell!" Understood. You would prefer that they believe what they want to believe but not to "force" it on you. Fine.

What I am trying to convey, is that Christians would like the same thing in return. If homosexuality works for you. Great! If you don't find anything wrong with that lifestyle. Wonderful. Just do not "force " it on my children at school.



This is where Brokeback comes in. Follow?

i'd like to throw this in real quick: brokeback mt. is art, jay. it is not the tool of a vast lefty conspiracy to turn children gay. maybe one teacher in one school wanted to broaden the horizons of her students (or maybe the teacher was lazy and wanted to show a movie). there is no "they" out there trying to make homosex the new norm. you are simply buying into a worldview presented to you by foxnews, their masters, and many more folks. an us-vs-them mentality to obtain your vote.

the key issue is how you define "the world" that you have juxtaposed to christians. actually, the key issue might be that the majority of christians (including me) don't agree with you.....

[jay_a2j]

They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all.

Does anyone follow me at all? The above quote, "They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all." Is exactly my point!

So you don't want some guy coming up to you on the street telling you "Repent! Or you will go to hell!" Understood. You would prefer that they believe what they want to believe but not to "force" it on you. Fine.

What I am trying to convey, is that Christians would like the same thing in return. If homosexuality works for you. Great! If you don't find anything wrong with that lifestyle. Wonderful. Just do not "force " it on my children at school.



This is where Brokeback comes in. Follow?

i'd like to throw this in real quick: brokeback mt. is art, jay. it is not the tool of a vast lefty conspiracy to turn children gay. maybe one teacher in one school wanted to broaden the horizons of her students (or maybe the teacher was lazy and wanted to show a movie). there is no "they" out there trying to make homosex the new norm. you are simply buying into a worldview presented to you by foxnews, their masters, and many more folks. an us-vs-them mentality to obtain your vote.

the key issue is how you define "the world" that you have juxtaposed to christians. actually, the key issue might be that the majority of christians (including me) don't agree with you.....

Another one who misses the point entirely.....please try to refrain from posting directed at me if all you want to do is go off course with your thoughts. And I HIGHLY doubt the majority of Christians disagree with me. (Now go find the thread that defines "Christian" and go from there) Just because a person takes the label doesn't mean it's so.

Your post is full of non-sense. And just one more example of people who DON'T GET IT.

[iAnonymous]

The world's changing, therefore you should adapt. It'll gradually become more and more "outdated" and "intolerant", until it comes to a point where other people won't take it anymore and will feel like lynching you.