BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN SHOWN IN SCHOOL

[Iz Man]

Is he furthering some kind of Secular-Progressive Pro-Gay agenda? No.

The story, aside from the homosexual side of things, is about wanting what you cannot have which is a long standing theme in literature.

I really find that hard to believe. There are countless pieces of literature and film that put forward the same themes which you describe without graphic homosexual scenes.
There are proper places & times for a movie like this, a school classroom is not one of them.

[vtmarik]

I agree with everything you said but this...


You don't know that. I don't know that. But showing this movie in school (public) without a doubt is sending a message of tolerance and acceptance. You want to show a movie about "wanting what you can't have"? There are plenty of other movies that could do the job. (Fatal Attraction comes to mind...hehehe)

What's wrong with acceptance? Jesus taught acceptance. Obviously they're part of God's plan since they're here. Maybe you should just live and let live.

After all, it wasn't that long ago that states were passing laws saying you couldn't marry out of your own race...

[Dancing Mustard]

Oh wow, Jay's argument just boiled down to "I've got a book that says it, so you all have to accept that". How anti-climatic.

Guess that no law can be above Muslim's 'Gods' law; better crack out some hijabs for the girls....
Suppose we'd also better ban those meat products for when the veggies roll up with their 'natural' laws....
Shit knows what we'll do when the Buddhists tell us not to swat flies; but we'll muddle through eh Jay?


Actually mate, we do 'get it'.
You've been brought up a homophobe because of your interpretation of a book (which I personally don't believe in). You think everybody else ought to believe in it too, and be forced to bend to its demands; regardless of the laws that govern them, or their own personal beliefs.
That is the absolute essence of the steretypical Christian-Intolerant.

Good luck learning to debate rationally in the future. At the moment you don't appear to be up to the task.

[jay_a2j]

Actually mate, we do 'get it'.
You've been brought up a homophobe because of your interpretation of a book (which I personally don't believe in). You think everybody else ought to believe in it too, and be forced to bend to its demands; regardless of the laws that govern them, or their own personal beliefs.
That is the absolute essence of the steretypical Christian-Intolerant.

Good luck learning to debate rationally in the future. At the moment you don't appear to be up to the task.

No, you don't get it. If you want to see brokeback go to the movies, go rent it...but don't force all the children in school to watch it. Some kids might "get offended". And that's our culture today, is it not? Do everything possible not to offend anyone. (Oh, wait that is for Muslims, racial diversity... NOT Christians...we can offend them all we want)

[Dancing Mustard]

You're aware that argument falls down around your ears the moment that you realise any given action might offend any given class of people. If you're seriously arguing that we shouldn't ever offend anybody, then you have to ban all media.

So let's see, Jay's ideal school:
Jews? Ban 'em, those anti-semites might not like it
Meat? Ban it, veggie kids might not like seeing people eating it
Saffron colours? Out, those Buddhists think it's a special colour
Metal products? Oh hell no, if one of these kids is a Wiccan then he's gonna be PISSED that were fucking with Gaia like that.

Seriously; have a think. You're desperately trying to find some new arguments to prop up your failing position. But they're even worse than the first. Have you ever considered that you might just be wrong on this one?

[Guiscard]

Oh, wait that is for Muslims, racial diversity... NOT Christians...we can offend them all we want)

You make me proud to be an atheist.

(edited this because I posted rather intoxicated...)

[Jenos Ridan]

Fine your opinion is that homosexuality is a sin, while I don't agree with you, it is your opinion. If you are tolerant that doesn't mean that you won't tell gay people what dangers they face. Your entire argument is wrong.

Except that's not what you're doing. You're labeling those who disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on scripture as homophobes...not very tolerant and open-minded of you.

Anyone can say they are open-minded on any subject and label those who disagree with them as closed-minded.

Hence why some call people like Illiad hypocrites. In fact, this is why most athiests are seen in as such. It is because they ARE hypocrites, enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with. I can see that some are trying to not be, but yet, they still fail.
Of course, I'm hardly perfect. Nobody on earth is.

[Neutrino]

Fine your opinion is that homosexuality is a sin, while I don't agree with you, it is your opinion. If you are tolerant that doesn't mean that you won't tell gay people what dangers they face. Your entire argument is wrong.

Except that's not what you're doing. You're labeling those who disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on scripture as homophobes...not very tolerant and open-minded of you.

Anyone can say they are open-minded on any subject and label those who disagree with them as closed-minded.

Hence why some call people like Illiad hypocrites. In fact, this is why most athiests are seen in as such. It is because they ARE hypocrites, enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with. I can see that some are trying to not be, but yet, they still fail.
Of course, I'm hardly perfect. Nobody on earth is.

Ok, I admit, at that point jay wasnt showing himself to be hugely intolerant and closed minded. Now, of course, its a totally different situation. When faced with questions, he went from stubborn to outright homophobic, and even admitted as such.


This is why im Athiest. Although Athiests can be just as closed minded and intolerant, you cant just say your various intolerances are what god wants you to do. (yet he permits homosexuals to live... slightly hipocritical god, dont you think?) Your absence of some superior being makes you question your motives a bit more and hopefully to change them a bit and make yourself a bit more tolerant.

[Guiscard]

OK, stop the Bible debate because a) it is pointless and b) it isn't relevant here.

Jay, the immense and absolute problem you have here is that you live in a country where homosexuality is legal. You have the right to teach your kids whatever you want in your own home, and you have the right to send them to church schools if you want so they get taught your system of beliefs and values there... But you CANNOT stop a PUBLIC school from at least showing them a perfectly legal and acceptable (to the government, at least - your elected representatives) film. If you take issue with the R rating that is fine, and I would also, but you cannot take issue with something that is perfectly legal in your country. If Christian parents are that sure in their moral convictions then they should either teach children at home that, although this is a legal and acceptable lifestyle for some, it is not acceptable in your religion and be happy that their child will remain true to their values whatever 'heathen' rubbish they get taught at school.

However much you think it should be illegal, homosexuality is not a crime in the USA and therefore there should be absolutely no prohibition upon showing it, discussing it and teaching about it in a public school. Feel free to send your kids to a religious school if you want, but public schools should be constrained by the law, not the beliefs of a section of its parents.

Now if you can get the atheists to buy that, we might come to an agreement.

I just wanted to bring the discussion back to this point to illustrate the immense hypocrisy of Jays viewpoint...

If Atheists are more tolerant of religion he will be too...

So, Jay, is this about your religious beliefs? Would they change if Atheists were more tolerant of religion in schools? Or is it just another reactionary expression of your intense hatred and fear of secular society.

Believe it or not Atheism is not the bugbear here. There are Christians who 100% agree with homosexuality as a legal and valid lifestyle choice too (for example, my father is a devout Anglican who is heavily involved with the church and my aunty is homosexual but both are accepted in the family and accept each other.

Why does it all boil down to atheism? Could it not be that there is not always a place for some of your particular values in today's not-necessarily-Christian society? You seem very insecure about it to be honest.

[heavycola]

Fine your opinion is that homosexuality is a sin, while I don't agree with you, it is your opinion. If you are tolerant that doesn't mean that you won't tell gay people what dangers they face. Your entire argument is wrong.

Except that's not what you're doing. You're labeling those who disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on scripture as homophobes...not very tolerant and open-minded of you.

Anyone can say they are open-minded on any subject and label those who disagree with them as closed-minded.

Hence why some call people like Illiad hypocrites. In fact, this is why most athiests are seen in as such. It is because they ARE hypocrites, enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with. I can see that some are trying to not be, but yet, they still fail.
Of course, I'm hardly perfect. Nobody on earth is.

Jenos Whatever, your posts irritate me more than any other particpant in these debates. You label all atheists as hypocrites 'enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with'. Well prove it. Where is the hypocrisy in the opinions I, or any other sceptic on here, has stated? Challenge me. Challenge us. Give me a chance to say one thing and do another. Please. Because my ammunition is your guidebook and i would LOVE to get into this debate with you.

[jay_a2j]

You're aware that argument falls down around your ears the moment that you realise any given action might offend any given class of people. If you're seriously arguing that we shouldn't ever offend anybody, then you have to ban all media.

So let's see, Jay's ideal school:
Jews? Ban 'em, those anti-semites might not like it
Meat? Ban it, veggie kids might not like seeing people eating it
Saffron colours? Out, those Buddhists think it's a special colour
Metal products? Oh hell no, if one of these kids is a Wiccan then he's gonna be PISSED that were fucking with Gaia like that.

Seriously; have a think. You're desperately trying to find some new arguments to prop up your failing position. But they're even worse than the first. Have you ever considered that you might just be wrong on this one?

First of all that's not my argument. THAT was sarcasm . This really has nothing to do with Christians but more "political correctness". Didn't I read something about Muslims wanting "Footbaths" put into all airports...and we are clamoring to do it so we don't offend them. (Wonder if the Catholics can get Confessionals put into all airports as well)

I am aware that no amount of me posting (or anyone for that matter) is going to change any of this. The whole point, I think, was to point out the double standard society places on Christians....Keep your faith to yourself and don't try to infect the rest of us with your 2000+ year old book..... BUT..... we reserve the right to impose OUR standards on you!


Its the way of the world.... but I take comfort in the fact that I'm not of this World.... just passing through.

[Backglass]

Didn't I read something about Muslims wanting "Footbaths" put into all airports...and we are clamoring to do it so we don't offend them.

Once again, I cry BULLSHIT. Please post a source to this news story in which American airports are "clamoring to install muslim footpaths".

(Wonder if the Catholics can get Confessionals put into all airports as well)

Probably not...but there IS a christian chapel IN EVERY major airport in the USA. Special treatment maybe?

The whole point, I think, was to point out the double standard society places on Christians....Keep your faith to yourself and don't try to infect the rest of us with your 2000+ year old book..... BUT..... we reserve the right to impose OUR standards on you!

This double standard doesn't exist. It is YOU who wants the special treatment. "We MUST pray in school because this is a christian country". "We MUST have the ten commandment at every courthouse because the LORD blessed the USA", etc.

Its the way of the world.... but I take comfort in the fact that I'm not of this World.... just passing through.

Thats right. You once didn't exist and will cease to exist again someday. You will make some fine graveyard fertilizer with all your bullshit.

[jay_a2j]

You will make some fine graveyard fertilizer with all your bullshit.

SWEET! (Now that was funny!)

[Balsiefen]

You're aware that argument falls down around your ears the moment that you realise any given action might offend any given class of people. If you're seriously arguing that we shouldn't ever offend anybody, then you have to ban all media.

So let's see, Jay's ideal school:
Jews? Ban 'em, those anti-semites might not like it
Meat? Ban it, veggie kids might not like seeing people eating it
Saffron colours? Out, those Buddhists think it's a special colour
Metal products? Oh hell no, if one of these kids is a Wiccan then he's gonna be PISSED that were fucking with Gaia like that.

Seriously; have a think. You're desperately trying to find some new arguments to prop up your failing position. But they're even worse than the first. Have you ever considered that you might just be wrong on this one?

First of all that's not my argument. THAT was sarcasm . This really has nothing to do with Christians but more "political correctness". Didn't I read something about Muslims wanting "Footbaths" put into all airports...and we are clamoring to do it so we don't offend them. (Wonder if the Catholics can get Confessionals put into all airports as well)

I am aware that no amount of me posting (or anyone for that matter) is going to change any of this. The whole point, I think, was to point out the double standard society places on Christians....Keep your faith to yourself and don't try to infect the rest of us with your 2000+ year old book..... BUT..... we reserve the right to impose OUR standards on you!


Its the way of the world.... but I take comfort in the fact that I'm not of this World.... just passing through.

The thing is that in Europe at least, chistians with those views are in an extreme minority. This is a thread you set up to discuss this, knowing full well your views would be disputed by everyone at every point, and now these replies to your troll subject are forcing their views on you. I also remember you saying that 1000 people ignoring you would be worth the conversion of one person to your thinking

[luns101]

Jay and Luns (as you seem to be the only folks who are actually outraged by the showing of this particular movie in the school) have either of you actually watched the film, or know what the story is about, other than they are gay cowboys?

No, and I don't plan to either. I fell for the old "you can't criticize it until you've watched it" line before. First it was Philadephia with Tom Hanks & Denzel Washington, then The Bird Cage with Robin Williams & Gene Hackman, and then it was In & Out with Kevin Kline & Tom Selleck. Each one of them featured the tired old theme of 'if you disagree with the homosexual lifestyle then you're a bigot'. I'll pass on the newest version of the same old homophobe accusations...this time featuring cowboys. And if there's another Hollywood propaganda piece featuring gay astronauts, I'll pass on that one as well.

Now I have to admit the movie was made not to highlight the negative impact of homosexuality on an individuals life but rather to draw attention to the effect the oppression of their true feelings to conform with a generally intolerant and non-understanding society, forcing them into a lifestyle they can't truly accept as and end result the film said anything to the viewer but "hey its cool to be gay"...

...and therein lies the agenda. What was once considered wrong is actually right. Those who still have hang-ups over it are now the bad guys. What you won't see discussed is that homosexual sex can actually lead to the contraction of AIDS. I've seen the effect of that disease first-hand and the hopelessness in the eyes of those who got it from engaging in homosexual behavior.

These same right-wing Christian fanatics are the ones setting up hospices so that these people can face death with some dignity. They clean up the blood, help them use the bathroom, and most important...love them when most of the world shuns them. I doubt you will ever see Hollywood putting out a movie telling that side of the story!

You guys should be relatively happy with this movie. Its not promoting homosexuality.

OK then, I am also relatively happy with the Friday the 13th movies as well. They are not directly promoting killing sprees. Jason Vorhees continually struggles with the inner demons he has had since he was left to drown at Camp Crystal Lake and the death of his mother. His biggest challenge is dealing with a society of promiscuous teenagers and bumbling law enforcement which try and suppress him from 'working out his anger' problems. In the end, maniacal serial killers are not shown in a positive light.

Sure, your kind of intolerance towards homosexuality is what is being vilified in the film so personally you can take offence that your viewpoint is being attacked, but in terms of the impact it has on a young mind you have no need to worry that anyone who watches it is going to suddenly finding homosexual feelings arising in them as a result.

You know as well as I do that the best time to try to persuade people is when they are young and impressionable. Nobody is going to go out and become homosexual due to watching Brokeback Mountain. What happens instead is that young people are desensitized to the stigma that homosexual behavior is wrong. At the same time, those who don't accept it are vilified. That is the real agenda of that teacher and the secular left in general - get 'em while they're still impressionable and they won't cause a problem for us when they're older.

[heavycola]

OK then, I am also relatively happy with the Friday the 13th movies as well. They are not directly promoting killing sprees. Jason Vorhees continually struggles with the inner demons he has had since he was left to drown at Camp Crystal Lake and the death of his mother. His biggest challenge is dealing with a society of promiscuous teenagers and bumbling law enforcement which try and suppress him from 'working out his anger' problems. In the end, maniacal serial killers are not shown in a positive light.

[Iliad]

Jay and Luns (as you seem to be the only folks who are actually outraged by the showing of this particular movie in the school) have either of you actually watched the film, or know what the story is about, other than they are gay cowboys?

No, and I don't plan to either. I fell for the old "you can't criticize it until you've watched it" line before. First it was Philadephia with Tom Hanks & Denzel Washington, then The Bird Cage with Robin Williams & Gene Hackman, and then it was In & Out with Kevin Kline & Tom Selleck. Each one of them featured the tired old theme of 'if you disagree with the homosexual lifestyle then you're a bigot'. I'll pass on the newest version of the same old homophobe accusations...this time featuring cowboys. And if there's another Hollywood propaganda piece featuring gay astronauts, I'll pass on that one as well.

Now I have to admit the movie was made not to highlight the negative impact of homosexuality on an individuals life but rather to draw attention to the effect the oppression of their true feelings to conform with a generally intolerant and non-understanding society, forcing them into a lifestyle they can't truly accept as and end result the film said anything to the viewer but "hey its cool to be gay"...

...and therein lies the agenda. What was once considered wrong is actually right. Those who still have hang-ups over it are now the bad guys. What you won't see discussed is that homosexual sex can actually lead to the contraction of AIDS. I've seen the effect of that disease first-hand and the hopelessness in the eyes of those who got it from engaging in homosexual behavior.

These same right-wing Christian fanatics are the ones setting up hospices so that these people can face death with some dignity. They clean up the blood, help them use the bathroom, and most important...love them when most of the world shuns them. I doubt you will ever see Hollywood putting out a movie telling that side of the story!

You guys should be relatively happy with this movie. Its not promoting homosexuality.

OK then, I am also relatively happy with the Friday the 13th movies as well. They are not directly promoting killing sprees. Jason Vorhees continually struggles with the inner demons he has had since he was left to drown at Camp Crystal Lake and the death of his mother. His biggest challenge is dealing with a society of promiscuous teenagers and bumbling law enforcement which try and suppress him from 'working out his anger' problems. In the end, maniacal serial killers are not shown in a positive light.

Sure, your kind of intolerance towards homosexuality is what is being vilified in the film so personally you can take offence that your viewpoint is being attacked, but in terms of the impact it has on a young mind you have no need to worry that anyone who watches it is going to suddenly finding homosexual feelings arising in them as a result.

You know as well as I do that the best time to try to persuade people is when they are young and impressionable. Nobody is going to go out and become homosexual due to watching Brokeback Mountain. What happens instead is that young people are desensitized to the stigma that homosexual behavior is wrong. At the same time, those who don't accept it are vilified. That is the real agenda of that teacher and the secular left in general - get 'em while they're still impressionable and they won't cause a problem for us when they're older.

You seriously think that Hollywood is propaganding homosexuality. But the point you are missing is that homosexuals have feelings too. They too have desires and they too are human. They shouldn't be persecuted because of their lifestyle.

[Jenos Ridan]

Fine your opinion is that homosexuality is a sin, while I don't agree with you, it is your opinion. If you are tolerant that doesn't mean that you won't tell gay people what dangers they face. Your entire argument is wrong.

Except that's not what you're doing. You're labeling those who disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on scripture as homophobes...not very tolerant and open-minded of you.

Anyone can say they are open-minded on any subject and label those who disagree with them as closed-minded.

Hence why some call people like Illiad hypocrites. In fact, this is why most athiests are seen in as such. It is because they ARE hypocrites, enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with. I can see that some are trying to not be, but yet, they still fail.
Of course, I'm hardly perfect. Nobody on earth is.

Jenos Whatever, your posts irritate me more than any other particpant in these debates. You label all atheists as hypocrites 'enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with'. Well prove it. Where is the hypocrisy in the opinions I, or any other sceptic on here, has stated? Challenge me. Challenge us. Give me a chance to say one thing and do another. Please. Because my ammunition is your guidebook and i would LOVE to get into this debate with you.

Firstly, I said MOST. NOT ALL, MOST. If your going to lynch me, then go it right! Be a little less clumsy with the accusations next time.

As for the 'challenge', you obivously have build up walls to protect yourself from truth, so it wouldn't really matter what I were to say. You'd flat-out refuse to hear me (typical atheist mindset, from the examples I see here. You all seem quite the militant bunch of God-haters here).

[Iliad]

Fine your opinion is that homosexuality is a sin, while I don't agree with you, it is your opinion. If you are tolerant that doesn't mean that you won't tell gay people what dangers they face. Your entire argument is wrong.

Except that's not what you're doing. You're labeling those who disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on scripture as homophobes...not very tolerant and open-minded of you.

Anyone can say they are open-minded on any subject and label those who disagree with them as closed-minded.

Hence why some call people like Illiad hypocrites. In fact, this is why most athiests are seen in as such. It is because they ARE hypocrites, enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with. I can see that some are trying to not be, but yet, they still fail.
Of course, I'm hardly perfect. Nobody on earth is.

Jenos Whatever, your posts irritate me more than any other particpant in these debates. You label all atheists as hypocrites 'enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with'. Well prove it. Where is the hypocrisy in the opinions I, or any other sceptic on here, has stated? Challenge me. Challenge us. Give me a chance to say one thing and do another. Please. Because my ammunition is your guidebook and i would LOVE to get into this debate with you.

Firstly, I said MOST. NOT ALL, MOST. If your going to lynch me, then go it right! Be a little less clumsy with the accusations next time.

As for the 'challenge', you obivously have build up walls to protect yourself from truth, so it wouldn't really matter what I were to say. You'd flat-out refuse to hear me (typical atheist mindset, from the examples I see here. You all seem quite the militant bunch of God-haters here).

Typical atheist mindset? Atheists are just people who don't believe god. I don't believe in god and that's it. Please do not use stereotypes.

[got tonkaed]

But the point you are missing is that homosexuals have feelings too. They too have desires and they too are human. They shouldn't be persecuted because of their lifestyle.

I happen to think although perhaps simple, this is a very profound point and one that i think should probably be discussed. At what level are we okay with the persecution of a group. No matter the group, ultimatly for one to be ok with some of the more violent offenses (and i dont really believe anyone on this forum is really guilty of anything) what level of justification is necesary to take someone with a different lifestyle and degrade them for it. Does this imply that we believe the to be less than human for their life choices. If homosexuality is in fact genetic (evidence seems to suggest a possiblity at least) what does that say about what we think it means to be human?

[heavycola]

Jenos:
I quoted you in full. Didn't put any words in your mouth.

if you are going to accuse people of hypocrisy, back it up. Simple.

[luns101]

You seriously think that Hollywood is propaganding homosexuality.

Yes, some within Hollywood are.

But the point you are missing is that homosexuals have feelings too. They too have desires and they too are human.

Apparently, you totally disregarded what I mentioned about Christian hospices taking care of homosexuals dying with AIDS.

If you think that Christians believe that homosexuals don't have feelings then you have already been brainwashed by the rhetoric of the 'tolerance' movement. Please read the entire Bible for yourself in context with no comment from myself or those who disagree with me.

They shouldn't be persecuted because of their lifestyle.

What do you define as persecution?...telling them that there will be a consequence for their behavior!...and that it could possibly lead to death!!

[Bertros Bertros]

...and therein lies the agenda. What was once considered wrong is actually right. Those who still have hang-ups over it are now the bad guys. What you won't see discussed is that homosexual sex can actually lead to the contraction of AIDS. I've seen the effect of that disease first-hand and the hopelessness in the eyes of those who got it from engaging in homosexual behavior.

Err I believe Jay referred to Fatal Attraction in an earlier post... Nowhere in that film did I see any discussion that heterosexual sex can actually lead to the contraction of Aids...

You say it like you believe that being homosexual can actually bring the virus into being. Stop being so obtuse. You are clearly intelligent enough to know that any sex with any infected person can lead to the contraction of Aids, and equally that sharing needles or blood transfusions for haemophiliacs or those in bad accidents all can and have lead to the contraction of Aids.

You talk of a "tired old theme". The tired old theme here is the one that homosexuality is the cause and spread of Aids. Well over a decade ago the incidents of Aids infection among homosexuals was falling and in countries where Aids had spread primarily amongst the homosexual community e.g Europe the incidence of Aids was falling as well, due to partly to the effect of education and partly to the success of retroviral drugs.

I wholly applaud those people whether thay are of faith or otherwise who care for the sick and help any person to face death with some dignity but do not fool yourself into believing that Christainity has a monopoly on compassion.

[Iliad]

You seriously think that Hollywood is propaganding homosexuality.

Yes, some within Hollywood are.

But the point you are missing is that homosexuals have feelings too. They too have desires and they too are human.

Apparently, you totally disregarded what I mentioned about Christian hospices taking care of homosexuals dying with AIDS.

If you think that Christians believe that homosexuals don't have feelings then you have already been brainwashed by the rhetoric of the 'tolerance' movement. Please read the entire Bible for yourself in context with no comment from myself or those who disagree with me.

They shouldn't be persecuted because of their lifestyle.

What do you define as persecution?...telling them that there will be a consequence for their behavior!...and that it could possibly lead to death!!

Telling that what they do and might be genetic is "evil" is not tolerant. Hollywood isn't propagandizing homosexuality. There is nothing wrong about a movie that explores what it means to be gay! Saying that movie is propaganda is rather close-minded.

[Neutrino]

Firstly, I said MOST. NOT ALL, MOST. If your going to lynch me, then go it right! Be a little less clumsy with the accusations next time.

As for the 'challenge', you obivously have build up walls to protect yourself from truth, so it wouldn't really matter what I were to say. You'd flat-out refuse to hear me (typical atheist mindset, from the examples I see here. You all seem quite the militant bunch of God-haters here).

Built up mental walls? I can't think up anything more wrong. I am always open to new ideas and I think most Athiests are as well. The reason I became athiest is because no religion can seem to offer any proper answers. Its always "Its the will of God" and "God works in mysterious ways". Why can no-one give me one straight answer?

That and I cant believe in any god who would act so childishly.