Post Any Evidence For God Here

[smegal69]

374209_335860436531497_102293041_n by smegal69, on Flickr



68500_457453200995837_1964214354_n by smegal69, on Flickr

[Gillipig]

Jonesey's going to die on his next stand up performance. I'm just letting you know Jonesey, don't go to that gig, it will be your last!

[john9blue]

seems legit

[jonesthecurl]

Jonesey's going to die on his next stand up performance. I'm just letting you know Jonesey, don't go to that gig, it will be your last!

Ok I won't go to my next performance.
That should be quite the surreal show.

[hahaha3hahaha]

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[chang50]

Anyone who has done at least a sliver of their own research into the historical accuracy of there being a Jesus Christ of Nazareth will know without a doubt that he existed. Regardless of whether you believe in Jesus as a divine being, it is commonly acknowledged by Christians and atheists alike that Jesus roamed the earth.
Working on this premise, we look at the validity to Christ's claim of being God, and of his resurrection.
Now I cannot prove to anyone that Christ/God exists, just like an atheist can not prove the big bang, or evolution (by scientific principles itself PROOF would require repeating the phenomenon, or observing, of which we can do neither), so what you must do is look at the evidence available and make your own decision.
When Christ was pronounced dead he was placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, which was sealed with stone and given a guard.
In Paul the Apostle's first letter to Corinth, he testifies to the fact that Christ was resurrected, three days after being crucified and announced dead, as Christ prophesied, and then appeared to over 500 witnesses.
The four gospels all give account to his resurrection. Most assume this is a given, but what many fail to realize is the disciples of Christ were men who had previously denied and doubted Christ, and fled from Christ during his arrest, trial and crucifixion. In fact Thomas refused to believe the disciples when they came to him saying they witnessed the resurrected Christ, he only believed when Christ appeared to him and presented him his nail-pierced hands.
Majority of these disciples, amongst a multitude of other martyrs, were subsequently killed for their faith in the resurrected Christ. When presented with the ultimatum of renouncing their witness accounts of Christ resurrected or being killed, they chose to die for their faith. They died not for a religion, or for a lie, they died for the truth they knew, they witnessed, and that they testified too.

All this aside, faith in God is quite simple and comes down to pure logic.
Do I believe that this whole complex universe is the result of an accidental clash of particles and energy? No.
Do I believe that humans, with rational thinking minds, have slowly evolved over time from irrational bacteria? No.
Do I believe that all this life, came from non-life? No.
Do I believe that absolute morals and justice do not exist, and that we can all fabricate our own definition of right and wrong based on our own biased perspective (ie. relativism)? No.
Do I believe that we are nothing more than machines with no other purpose than to propagate DNA? No.

Why would you expect an atheist to be able to prove the big bang theory or the theory of evolution,neither is remotely a qualification for disbelief in the existence of deities,which is the only requirement for being an atheist.

[Frigidus]

Now I cannot prove to anyone that Christ/God exists, just like an atheist can not prove the big bang, or evolution (by scientific principles itself PROOF would require repeating the phenomenon, or observing, of which we can do neither), so what you must do is look at the evidence available and make your own decision.

If the only way to demonstrate something to be true was to repeat it in a lab or observe it directly then we would not know what the sun is or what the core of the Earth is like.

When Christ was pronounced dead he was placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, which was sealed with stone and given a guard.

I'm letting Jesus' existence slide, as although there are no non-Biblical mentions of his existence until long after his death it isn't a big stretch to say that the New Testament is at least loosely based on a real person. That said, no objective historian will claim to know any details behind the man's life or death. Your follow up to this unverifiable claim are even more unverifiable claims.

All this aside, faith in God is quite simple and comes down to pure logic.
Do I believe that this whole complex universe is the result of an accidental clash of particles and energy? No.
Do I believe that humans, with rational thinking minds, have slowly evolved over time from irrational bacteria? No.
Do I believe that all this life, came from non-life? No.
Do I believe that absolute morals and justice do not exist, and that we can all fabricate our own definition of right and wrong based on our own biased perspective (ie. relativism)? No.
Do I believe that we are nothing more than machines with no other purpose than to propagate DNA? No.

Pure logic is a series of belief statements? That's not the way it was taught to me.

That said, what makes you say that absolute morality requires a god?

[hahaha3hahaha]

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[The Weird One]

That said, what makes you say that absolute morality requires a god?

If there was no mind before the human mind to set out morals, then all morals are subjective.
We each can dictate in our own minds a code of morals and ethics that suit our own biased lifestyle.
No one's set of morals are more valid or invalid than another's, because we each create our own perceived reality of what is right, and what is wrong.
With God absolute morals cannot exist, any correctly educated atheist will conceive this.

Please define "correctly educated" as used, here.

[Frigidus]

That said, what makes you say that absolute morality requires a god?

If there was no mind before the human mind to set out morals, then all morals are subjective.
We each can dictate in our own minds a code of morals and ethics that suit our own biased lifestyle.
No one's set of morals are more valid or invalid than another's, because we each create our own perceived reality of what is right, and what is wrong.
With God absolute morals cannot exist, any correctly educated atheist will conceive this.

I sort of went over this earlier in the thread, but if some higher being is the one that defines morality then morality is not absolute as it could change based on the whims of said higher being.

[hahaha3hahaha]

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[Frigidus]

Absolutely true, good point. But this only applies to "higher beings who change morality based on their whims". Fortunately God does not have such a character.
See Hebrews 13:8 and Malachi 4:8.

How would you justify this idea of God never changing his mind on what is moral with the flooding of the Earth, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and massacre of the Canaanites?

[hahaha3hahaha]

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[Frigidus]

Absolutely true, good point. But this only applies to "higher beings who change morality based on their whims". Fortunately God does not have such a character.
See Hebrews 13:8 and Malachi 4:8.

How would you justify this idea of God never changing his mind on what is moral with the flooding of the Earth, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and massacre of the Canaanites?

So God never maintained that he punishes/destroys the wicked?
Also, I thought we were talking about human morality?

Well, God ordered other people to massacre the Canaanites. That aside, how can you call morality objective when it only applies to some people?

[hahaha3hahaha]

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[BigBallinStalin]

Now I cannot prove to anyone that Christ/God exists, just like an atheist can not prove the big bang, or evolution (by scientific principles itself PROOF would require repeating the phenomenon, or observing, of which we can do neither), so what you must do is look at the evidence available and make your own decision.

If the only way to demonstrate something to be true was to repeat it in a lab or observe it directly then we would not know what the sun is or what the core of the Earth is like.

We'd also have to doubt hahaha3hahaha's existence.

[hahaha3hahaha]

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[john9blue]

You are confusing evidence for proof. There is evidence that I exist. Much like there is evidence that Christ existed, was crucified, and resurrected on the third day.
I cannot physically prove that Christ existed to you, I can only give you the evidence. Much like you cannot prove evolution as scientific fact, nor can any other scientist who has tried.
Big difference between proof and evidence. All I was outlining is neither party can prove either's world view in concrete, which means that evolutionism without observation, really is just as much a "faith" as Christianity.

what if one side has more proof than the other?

[chang50]

That said, what makes you say that absolute morality requires a god?

If there was no mind before the human mind to set out morals, then all morals are subjective.
We each can dictate in our own minds a code of morals and ethics that suit our own biased lifestyle.
No one's set of morals are more valid or invalid than another's, because we each create our own perceived reality of what is right, and what is wrong.
With God absolute morals cannot exist, any correctly educated atheist will conceive this.

Please define "correctly educated" as used, here.

Probably not the best term. What I am meaning is someone who accurately understands the complete implications of having atheism as their world view.

I sort of went over this earlier in the thread, but if some higher being is the one that defines morality then morality is not absolute as it could change based on the whims of said higher being.

Absolutely true, good point. But this only applies to "higher beings who change morality based on their whims". Fortunately God does not have such a character.
See Hebrews 13:8 and Malachi 4:8.

On what basis do you claim atheism is a worldview?For me it is nothing more than disbelief in the existence of gods.Period.

[hahaha3hahaha]

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[The Weird One]

On what basis do you claim atheism is a worldview?For me it is nothing more than disbelief in the existence of gods.Period.

It certainly isn't just disbelief in the existence of God, there are many concrete implications of atheism that come naturally with this world view.
If there is no God
- There are no objective morals
- True justice does not exist
- Good and evil is subject to individual biased opinion, and does not actually exist in absolute form
- Rape, theft and racial segregation may be subjectively wrong, in your opinion, but that opinion holds no validity because there is no mind before the human mind to separate right from wrong, its all relative
- This entire universe is an accident
- Love, compassion, sorrow and memories do not actually exist
- Your sole purpose in life, enacted subconsciously by your "selfish genes", is to propagate your DNA, nothing more

As you can see, atheism involves quite more than just "not believing in God".

Ignoring the rest, for now, I'm not sure that memories should be there. Or sorrow for that matter. Memories do exist. There's just nothing mystical about them...they are information that is stored in your brain. Sorrow does exist. It's the emotion that one feels when certain chemicals are released into one's brain. It is a description for the perception of a chemical reaction.

[chang50]

On what basis do you claim atheism is a worldview?For me it is nothing more than disbelief in the existence of gods.Period.

It certainly isn't just disbelief in the existence of God, there are many concrete implications of atheism that come naturally with this world view.
If there is no God
- There are no objective morals
- True justice does not exist
- Good and evil is subject to individual biased opinion, and does not actually exist in absolute form
- Rape, theft and racial segregation may be subjectively wrong, in your opinion, but that opinion holds no validity because there is no mind before the human mind to separate right from wrong, its all relative
- This entire universe is an accident
- Love, compassion, sorrow and memories do not actually exist
- Your sole purpose in life, enacted subconsciously by your "selfish genes", is to propagate your DNA, nothing more

As you can see, atheism involves quite more than just "not believing in God".

Any individual atheist can believe any or none of the above,they are peripheral to disbelief in gods,which is all that is necessary..

[hahaha3hahaha]

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[chang50]

On what basis do you claim atheism is a worldview?For me it is nothing more than disbelief in the existence of gods.Period.

It certainly isn't just disbelief in the existence of God, there are many concrete implications of atheism that come naturally with this world view.
If there is no God
- There are no objective morals
- True justice does not exist
- Good and evil is subject to individual biased opinion, and does not actually exist in absolute form
- Rape, theft and racial segregation may be subjectively wrong, in your opinion, but that opinion holds no validity because there is no mind before the human mind to separate right from wrong, its all relative
- This entire universe is an accident
- Love, compassion, sorrow and memories do not actually exist
- Your sole purpose in life, enacted subconsciously by your "selfish genes", is to propagate your DNA, nothing more

As you can see, atheism involves quite more than just "not believing in God".

Any individual atheist can believe any or none of the above,they are peripheral to disbelief in gods,which is all that is necessary..

That's like people who say "I like to smoke cigarettes, but I refuse to believe that they are carcinogenic." Regardless of what you think atheism is, or isn't, my above post is the natural implications of what atheism entails. Regardless of what you choose to chop 'n' change relating to which aspects you agree with, they are undeniable truths resultant of atheism.

Ignoring the rest, for now

Not a good idea.

I'm not sure that memories should be there. Or sorrow for that matter. Memories do exist. There's just nothing mystical about them...they are information that is stored in your brain. Sorrow does exist. It's the emotion that one feels when certain chemicals are released into one's brain. It is a description for the perception of a chemical reaction.

Perhaps my choice of words were not the best.
What I am referring to here is the notion that love and sorrow, for example, are purely chemical reactions and hold no value or worth, and no meaning in life.
Atheism teaches that love, for example, is a chemical reaction that our selfish genes will produce in the brain to trick us into developing a relationship with someone to sleep with them and extend your genes and propagate DNA. So the two views of emotions and feelings are quite conflicting, obviously.

You seem to be arguing that if I disbelieve in gods,the onus is on me to provide an alternative explanation for what theists believe gods explain,without giving any reason for that.Can't I honestly and simply admit I don't know the answers to the big questions which theism arrogantly presumes to answer.

[hahaha3hahaha]

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