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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby ooge on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:07 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
ooge wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:Sad very sad that we have reached this point in society that we blame our problems on the weakest among us.But we have Ronald Reagan to thank for it."There are Welfare Queens driving Welfare Cadillacs." link to this B.S. line that he used.http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfarequeen.htm


Actually, we blame the government for turning a safety net into a way of life.


Do you really think people want to be poor or would rather have a job that pays a living wage?So the can pay taxes and be meaningful contributors of society.or do you think that those who are powerful with influence and money would do everything they can to get the middle class to blame their problems on the poor to keep them from seeing the real problem. "their is class warfare and my class is winning" Warren Buffett.


First, answer mine (I asked first), then I will answer yours.

#1) Do you think there are people who abuse welfare and drive nice cars?
#2) Is it okay to talk about welfare abuse, or isn't it?
#3) How has a sentence Reagan said 30 years ago concerning welfare abuse to blame for everything?
#4) How is it that we are blaming all our problems on the weakest among us? You seem pretty certain that there is no such thing as welfare abuse, and that anyone who addresses it is to blame for everything.


my response was to night strike,not you.


Okay. Not sure why you are scared to think for yourself or elaborate on a non-point you were making, but okay.


read the article I posted..Reagan greed is good, southern strategy,Barry Goldwater,Eisenhower begging republicans not to be against civil rights legislation,paul Ryans budgets lower taxes on the rich raises taxes on the poor and minimal tax decreases for the middle. Ayn Rand.look all this up and you might find yourself voting for Ralph Nader Again.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Night Strike on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:08 pm

You can't lower taxes on 47% of the population who pays no federal income taxes.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby ooge on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:15 pm

Night Strike wrote:You can't lower taxes on 47% of the population who pays no federal income taxes.


do those 47% pay taxes?
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby jj3044 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:19 pm

Geezus, I leave you guys alone for one hour and you get in trouble. No dessert unless you clean up this thread!

All seriousness, I was enjoying the debate we were having as of an hour ago... lol

Regarding the economic factors, thank you for the run down PS. I found it an interesting read.

Regarding the drug testing, if it indeed is shown to not actually save money, then fair point, perhaps that isn't a cost saving strategy. I do agree that it doesn't seem like a transition program, and I have heard/read stories about it trapping people (i.e. having to turn down raises at work because it would put them over the allowable threshold).
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Night Strike on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:20 pm

ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You can't lower taxes on 47% of the population who pays no federal income taxes.


do those 47% pay taxes?


Not federal income taxes. If they have a job and are contributing to Social Security and Medicare, they will get that money back later, which is why those are fundamentally different than regular taxes.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby ooge on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:25 pm

Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You can't lower taxes on 47% of the population who pays no federal income taxes.


do those 47% pay taxes?


Not federal income taxes. If they have a job and are contributing to Social Security and Medicare, they will get that money back later, which is why those are fundamentally different than regular taxes.


do you think those that are not paying federal income tax pay a higher percentage in taxes overall compared with their income? Be careful...
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby ooge on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:28 pm

jj3044 wrote:Geezus, I leave you guys alone for one hour and you get in trouble. No dessert unless you clean up this thread!

All seriousness, I was enjoying the debate we were having as of an hour ago... lol

Regarding the economic factors, thank you for the run down PS. I found it an interesting read.

Regarding the drug testing, if it indeed is shown to not actually save money, then fair point, perhaps that isn't a cost saving strategy. I do agree that it doesn't seem like a transition program, and I have heard/read stories about it trapping people (i.e. having to turn down raises at work because it would put them over the allowable threshold).


600 a month for a family of three is the max they can receive.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby ooge on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:29 pm

jj3044 wrote:Geezus, I leave you guys alone for one hour and you get in trouble. No dessert unless you clean up this thread!

All seriousness, I was enjoying the debate we were having as of an hour ago... lol

Regarding the economic factors, thank you for the run down PS. I found it an interesting read.

Regarding the drug testing, if it indeed is shown to not actually save money, then fair point, perhaps that isn't a cost saving strategy. I do agree that it doesn't seem like a transition program, and I have heard/read stories about it trapping people (i.e. having to turn down raises at work because it would put them over the allowable threshold).


Sorry man...I will bale out of this..
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:39 pm

jj3044 wrote:Geezus, I leave you guys alone for one hour and you get in trouble. No dessert unless you clean up this thread!

All seriousness, I was enjoying the debate we were having as of an hour ago... lol

Regarding the economic factors, thank you for the run down PS. I found it an interesting read.

Regarding the drug testing, if it indeed is shown to not actually save money, then fair point, perhaps that isn't a cost saving strategy. I do agree that it doesn't seem like a transition program, and I have heard/read stories about it trapping people (i.e. having to turn down raises at work because it would put them over the allowable threshold).


I came to the same conclusion.

The drug testing, in Florida at least, broke even. There are other results that showed it saved a tiny bit of money, there or other results that showed it costs a tiny bit of money.

Personally, I don't even care if it does cost money. I am for limited government, but that in no way means that we can never spend a penny combating abuse, fraud, waste, as they are also results of big government, and cost far more than a urine kit and a cup. It's not like the welfare program itself doesn't cost money. But overall, I think it's up to the people of the states to decide for themselves, based on whatever kind of unique problem they are having. I personally know far too many people who get more free money every month than I do working my ass off, and they do a lot of drugs. It really pisses me off, but I try not to take it personally. I realize part of the problem is the way the system is set up, as well as even suggesting there is welfare abuse has become taboo. Not to mention, it's just common sense. Nobody should be able to get "assistance" and then turn around and spend that money at the casino or on drugs.

Free money is a trap. It has a way of usually destroys one's understanding of the value of money and more often than not it destroys work ethic. When you don't have to work for money and you just get it handed to you, the odds increase that the money will be wasted, since there is no understanding with free money of what it took for someone else to work to earn it, because they did not have to work to earn it. One of the welfare queens I know (she is an expert at sponging off other people's money) just said "I have to take the summer off (she works at a school) because if her income goes up anymore she will lose her benefits. So basically, she is trapped at 22,000/year, and purposefully tries not to make more, and will be enjoying the summer off spending your hard earned money at the casino. Anyone who remembers my stories about this woman from before, she is the one that bought each of her kids their own playstation 3,, because "they don't like to share". And there is the complete disrespect of understanding the value of money, and the bad habits that come from it are exponential.

I understand people need help from time to time, and I'm not trying to banish unemployment or welfare, and the above obviously is not an absolute statement for everyone, but I work too damn hard and pay too much in taxes to stand by and watch people I know burn through their free money and not come to the conclusion that reform is needed.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby patches70 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:45 pm

jj3044 wrote:Regarding the economic factors, thank you for the run down PS. I found it an interesting read.



I think it was my run down, no PS. The economics are important and not just "How much is it going to cost?" but also where the money actually comes from. It's the whole foundation of pretty much everything and all too often we ignore those things to our continued detriment.
This leads to disappointment because things don't work out like promised because the economic factors were never accounted for. The Seen and the Unseen. Forgetting the unseen is bad for the future. Just like paying for things today on credit from future income. In the future all your money is already spent and you keep that cycle of debt and unwise monetary policies going. The problems just keep building and building and it all starts with the monetary foundation on which every secular thing is built. Those problems spill over into the social side and before long everyone is blaming everyone else and no one pays attention to the currency and the role it plays.

You'd be surprised at how many people are "Well we can just print the money!" and never think for a second about the consequences nor put two and two together later when everything gets screwed. Why this or that didn't work like promised. They never remember that it's sand it was all built on.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Night Strike on Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:44 pm

ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You can't lower taxes on 47% of the population who pays no federal income taxes.


do those 47% pay taxes?


Not federal income taxes. If they have a job and are contributing to Social Security and Medicare, they will get that money back later, which is why those are fundamentally different than regular taxes.


do you think those that are not paying federal income tax pay a higher percentage in taxes overall compared with their income? Be careful...


It depends. Do you count defined-benefit programs as regular taxes? Do you factor in every single state, property, licensing, etc. tax? We have people paying 50-70% of their income in combined taxes, and they definitely aren't the poor people.

By the way, it's also why I support a straight flat tax ideally....every person is treated equally in regards to taxes, yet the "evil rich people" are still paying more dollars into the system than the poor.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:45 am

Phatscotty wrote:Okay. Not sure why you are scared to think for yourself or elaborate on a non-point you were making, but okay. The post I am asking you about was a response to mine, so I'm not even sure your excuse makes sense. Fine, so strike the "First, answer mine (I asked first), then I will answer yours." okay, now that that's over with.....

Can you address #1-4 please?


Introspection, Phatscotty...do you do it?
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:46 am

ooge wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:Sad very sad that we have reached this point in society that we blame our problems on the weakest among us.But we have Ronald Reagan to thank for it."There are Welfare Queens driving Welfare Cadillacs." link to this B.S. line that he used.http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfarequeen.htm


Actually, we blame the government for turning a safety net into a way of life.


Do you really think people want to be poor or would rather have a job that pays a living wage?So the can pay taxes and be meaningful contributors of society.


While I tend to agree with you that there aren't many who prefer that life, the problem is that the laws are written in such a way as to make getting out of that life much more unlikely. When the job you're going to be hired for makes barely more than taking welfare, a simple cost-benefit analysis says you'll stay on welfare. It's not worth the job for the little income growth, even taking into account personal pride.


Welfare incorporates all of the government services... food stamps, state health insurance, TANF, housing assistance, daycare assistance, etc. For TANF (or FANF in NH), the maximum household income you can have for a family of 3 is $675/month (gross income). The maximum you can receive monthly is $600 for a family of 3 each month... but the amount you will receive will depend on how much income you have coming in each month. Example, if there is no income coming in each month, then you should receive the full amount. If you have $650/month in income, then you will qualify, but may only receive $100/month. There is no "average" amount because it depends on your family's particular situation and monthly income. You are allowed to have up to $1,000 in resources (cash, savings bonds, savings, checking, investments, etc) and still qualify for this program.

this is what search came up with.


Does that counter what I said?
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:50 am

Phatscotty wrote:The drug testing, in Florida at least, broke even. There are other results that showed it saved a tiny bit of money, there or other results that showed it costs a tiny bit of money.


It lost more than a tiny bit, by the estimations I've seen.

Phatscotty wrote:Personally, I don't even care if it does cost money. I am for limited government, but that in no way means that we can never spend a penny combating abuse, fraud, waste, as they are also results of big government, and cost far more than a urine kit and a cup.


That's just it...you keep claiming to be for limited government, but not when it limits things you're in favor of. You've been hypocritical consistent in that policy.

Phatscotty wrote:I personally know far too many people who get more free money every month than I do working my ass off, and they do a lot of drugs.


Yeah, and you're not a racist because you have black friends too. We know.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:51 am

Night Strike wrote:By the way, it's also why I support a straight flat tax ideally....every person is treated equally in regards to taxes, yet the "evil rich people" are still paying more dollars into the system than the poor.


Yet the flat tax really ISN'T fair, as it puts a much more onerous burden on the poor than it does the rich.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:30 am

Woodruff wrote:
jj3044 wrote:If you bring social programs like food stamps, medicaid, and welfare into the redistribution umbrella (I would assume these are the primary programs you are talking about), I support them in theory. However, I think there is a LOT wrong with these programs, and I would love to see reform.


A lot of reform IS needed, I agree. That said, not this:

jj3044 wrote:For example, I would love to see mandatory drug testing for people on food stamps and welfare. If someone is getting a handout from the government and my taxes, they better damn well be not spending those dollars on cocaine.


Recent studies show that the number of people receiving welfare that use illegal drugs at all is miniscule,
and we end up spending more money trying to stop them than we save in stopping them.

The reform I believe needs to happen has more to do with end-level limitations. Welfare should not be an endgame, rather a bridge.


Why would the recipients answer honestly?
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:31 am

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:By the way, it's also why I support a straight flat tax ideally....every person is treated equally in regards to taxes, yet the "evil rich people" are still paying more dollars into the system than the poor.


Yet the flat tax really ISN'T fair, as it puts a much more onerous burden on the poor than it does the rich.


It depends on (a) the rate and (b) the exemption.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby ooge on Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:08 am

Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You can't lower taxes on 47% of the population who pays no federal income taxes.


do those 47% pay taxes?


Not federal income taxes. If they have a job and are contributing to Social Security and Medicare, they will get that money back later, which is why those are fundamentally different than regular taxes.


do you think those that are not paying federal income tax pay a higher percentage in taxes overall compared with their income? Be careful...


It depends. Do you count defined-benefit programs as regular taxes? Do you factor in every single state, property, licensing, etc. tax? We have people paying 50-70% of their income in combined taxes, and they definitely aren't the poor people.

By the way, it's also why I support a straight flat tax ideally....every person is treated equally in regards to taxes, yet the "evil rich people" are still paying more dollars into the system than the poor.


yes I am including all taxes a person may pay,sales tax,gas tax,etc.The tax rate is pretty flat now as it is.and that is part of the problem.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:12 am

ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You can't lower taxes on 47% of the population who pays no federal income taxes.


do those 47% pay taxes?


Not federal income taxes. If they have a job and are contributing to Social Security and Medicare, they will get that money back later, which is why those are fundamentally different than regular taxes.


do you think those that are not paying federal income tax pay a higher percentage in taxes overall compared with their income? Be careful...


It depends. Do you count defined-benefit programs as regular taxes? Do you factor in every single state, property, licensing, etc. tax? We have people paying 50-70% of their income in combined taxes, and they definitely aren't the poor people.

By the way, it's also why I support a straight flat tax ideally....every person is treated equally in regards to taxes, yet the "evil rich people" are still paying more dollars into the system than the poor.


yes I am including all taxes a person may pay,sales tax,gas tax,etc.The tax rate is pretty flat now as it is.and that is part of the problem.


I see your cost-only analysis and raise you a benefit-plus analysis (you're forgetting to include subsidies--e.g. welfare, subsidized health care, government-guaranteed loans, , etc.).

If you're earning less than $15k a year and if you play the game correctly, then you'll get an extra $15k from the state. So, essentially, you don't pay federal taxes. One may pay State taxes (sales, property), but obviously, we can begin to see that the marginal tax rate is not flat.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Night Strike on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:40 am

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:By the way, it's also why I support a straight flat tax ideally....every person is treated equally in regards to taxes, yet the "evil rich people" are still paying more dollars into the system than the poor.


Yet the flat tax really ISN'T fair, as it puts a much more onerous burden on the poor than it does the rich.


Actually, it IS fair as every one would pay the exact same rate. There would actually be equality rather than punishing people who make more than an arbitrary amount. Under the current system, not only do they pay more actual dollars as their earnings go up, they have to also pay higher rates of dollars as their earnings go up. It puts the same burden on all people because everyone would be paying the same rate.

Besides, the true burden is the $50,000+ growing debt that EVERYONE is currently expected responsible for, regardless of whether they have been born yet or not. And more and more government programs, like Obamacare, do nothing to decrease that burden of debt.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:08 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
jj3044 wrote:If you bring social programs like food stamps, medicaid, and welfare into the redistribution umbrella (I would assume these are the primary programs you are talking about), I support them in theory. However, I think there is a LOT wrong with these programs, and I would love to see reform.


A lot of reform IS needed, I agree. That said, not this:

jj3044 wrote:For example, I would love to see mandatory drug testing for people on food stamps and welfare. If someone is getting a handout from the government and my taxes, they better damn well be not spending those dollars on cocaine.


Recent studies show that the number of people receiving welfare that use illegal drugs at all is miniscule,
and we end up spending more money trying to stop them than we save in stopping them.

The reform I believe needs to happen has more to do with end-level limitations. Welfare should not be an endgame, rather a bridge.


Why would the recipients answer honestly?


Huh? This is based on their actual drug tests, not surveys. <laughing> C'mon BigBallinStalin, you're better than THAT.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:47 pm

Woodruff wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
jj3044 wrote:If you bring social programs like food stamps, medicaid, and welfare into the redistribution umbrella (I would assume these are the primary programs you are talking about), I support them in theory. However, I think there is a LOT wrong with these programs, and I would love to see reform.


A lot of reform IS needed, I agree. That said, not this:

jj3044 wrote:For example, I would love to see mandatory drug testing for people on food stamps and welfare. If someone is getting a handout from the government and my taxes, they better damn well be not spending those dollars on cocaine.


Recent studies show that the number of people receiving welfare that use illegal drugs at all is miniscule,
and we end up spending more money trying to stop them than we save in stopping them.

The reform I believe needs to happen has more to do with end-level limitations. Welfare should not be an endgame, rather a bridge.


Why would the recipients answer honestly?


Huh? This is based on their actual drug tests, not surveys. <laughing> C'mon BigBallinStalin, you're better than THAT.


Ohh, no shit? I thought they'd keep it cheap by conducting surveys instead.

Then that's something, but I wonder how many people can still cheat the test--especially if it's a urine test.

Honestly, I'm surprised by the outcomes--I recall there being one study done in Florida (correct?), and the percentages of FAIL were very small (less than 5%).
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:59 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
jj3044 wrote:If you bring social programs like food stamps, medicaid, and welfare into the redistribution umbrella (I would assume these are the primary programs you are talking about), I support them in theory. However, I think there is a LOT wrong with these programs, and I would love to see reform.


A lot of reform IS needed, I agree. That said, not this:

jj3044 wrote:For example, I would love to see mandatory drug testing for people on food stamps and welfare. If someone is getting a handout from the government and my taxes, they better damn well be not spending those dollars on cocaine.


Recent studies show that the number of people receiving welfare that use illegal drugs at all is miniscule,
and we end up spending more money trying to stop them than we save in stopping them.

The reform I believe needs to happen has more to do with end-level limitations. Welfare should not be an endgame, rather a bridge.


Why would the recipients answer honestly?


Huh? This is based on their actual drug tests, not surveys. <laughing> C'mon BigBallinStalin, you're better than THAT.


Ohh, no shit? I thought they'd keep it cheap by conducting surveys instead.

Then that's something, but I wonder how many people can still cheat the test--especially if it's a urine test.

Honestly, I'm surprised by the outcomes--I recall there being one study done in Florida (correct?), and the percentages of FAIL were very small (less than 5%).


You have that backward, actually. In Florida, the percentages of the drug test being POSITIVE were very small (as in, if I remember correctly, between 2-3%.

As to cheating a urine test, I suppose that's possible...though if they do the tests the same way they do in the military, I'll go ahead and say it's extraordinarily difficult (as the observer must watch the urine both leave the penis and go into the container).
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:16 am

Phatscotty wrote:
jj3044 wrote:Geezus, I leave you guys alone for one hour and you get in trouble. No dessert unless you clean up this thread!

All seriousness, I was enjoying the debate we were having as of an hour ago... lol

Regarding the economic factors, thank you for the run down PS. I found it an interesting read.

Regarding the drug testing, if it indeed is shown to not actually save money, then fair point, perhaps that isn't a cost saving strategy. I do agree that it doesn't seem like a transition program, and I have heard/read stories about it trapping people (i.e. having to turn down raises at work because it would put them over the allowable threshold).


I came to the same conclusion.

The drug testing, in Florida at least, broke even. There are other results that showed it saved a tiny bit of money, there or other results that showed it costs a tiny bit of money.

Nope... go back and read the original thread on that topic your ideas were roundly refuted with facts.

But, of course, like always you ignore that part and continue with your fiction....


Phatscotty wrote:I understand people need help from time to time, and I'm not trying to banish unemployment or welfare, and the above obviously is not an absolute statement for everyone, but I work too damn hard and pay too much in taxes to stand by and watch people I know burn through their free money and not come to the conclusion that reform is needed.

You operate under a myriad of false assumptions, but refuse to verify any of them. THAT is why so many so-called "reform" ideas have failed.

The REAL problem is that too many people actually WORK full time and yet still cannot afford to live in this country, even in "low rent" areas such as where I live (in the "rust belt" ). Too much income is now generated from investment. That itself was OK back when investment actually meant investing in people's ideas, innovation and work. Today, its about playing games with moving accounts, dodging taxes. Money is siphoned off the workers in an unsustainable way.

BUT... that has little to do with the healthcare reform act, other than that it was yet one more case of Republicans cutting and refusing anything they could from anything presented by a Democrat, with the result being a piece of poorly designed legislation that is only marginally better than what we have before. A small improvement is still improvement, but its hardly a fix.

What the act does right now:
allows you to include children up to age 26 in your policy.

Stops practice of companies denying people pre-existing conditions, (first kids, now adults as well) AND stops the old "life time limit" game that allowed companies to cut off people just when they got really sick and truly needed the insurance for which they have paid.

As of 2014, sets up a system where people without employer based insurance can buy reasonably priced insurance. Many states have stonewalled or failed, but CA actually has a working system that will offer policies for under $400.

Actual coverage required is being more standardized, though folks like Night strike and Phattscotty seem to think they have the right to dictate women's health care based on their personal or moral positions, rather than following dictates of the medical profession trained in the matters.

None of this will halt the existing game companies play of pretending they are offering "reasonable" insurance, but actually offering high cost policies that have very high deductibles and co-payments that don't count toward the deductible.
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Re: ObamaCare, MotherF*&%er!!!!

Postby patches70 on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:39 am

An excellent example of how people fail to even consider the economic ramifications of monetary policy and instead blame said consequences through the "us" vs "them" false dichotomy.

Player wrote:The REAL problem is that too many people actually WORK full time and yet still cannot afford to live in this country, even in "low rent" areas such as where I live (in the "rust belt" ).


The real reason that so many people working full time can't afford to live in this country is because of inflation. Inflation harms the mid to low incomes the most. Obamacare isn't going to make life any easier because of decades of currency devaluation that forces people to work more and more to get the same things.

The Fed pumping lots of cheap money into circulation has this effect-

Player wrote:Too much income is now generated from investment. That itself was OK back when investment actually meant investing in people's ideas, innovation and work. Today, its about playing games with moving accounts, dodging taxes. Money is siphoned off the workers in an unsustainable way.


And what Player is saying here is absolutely true. When we give golden parachutes and bail outs to the so called "Too Big To Fail" banks and broker institutions instead of letting them go bankrupt from their mal investments it only reinforces more bad investments.

The US has turned into a country that produces financial instruments instead of actual products and the biggest working sector is the service industry which is highly unstable in the Boom Bust cycle created by the actions of central banks. Such industries aren't recession proof.

This inflation is from years and years of massive government spending without any fiscal discipline enabled by the money printing of the Fed. The inflation pressures keep building and building slowly but surely. The workers pay doesn't keep up with real inflation (though it keeps up just fine with core inflation from which the Fed determines monetary policy).

Where in 1970 (when we didn't have a fiat currency), Dad could work, mom would stay home with Johnny and Jenny and the family put away a few bucks in savings and was able to house, feed, clothe and educate themselves on one paycheck. If dad got hurt, or lost his job, mom could get a job as a temporary solution, a safety net as it were and the family had been able to save a little as well for more buffering against ill fate and disaster. Fast forward through 40 years of a pure fiat system designed so that government wouldn't have to worry about deficits and we get to where we are now.

Mom and Dad both have to work. Johnny and Jenny are without proper supervision because mom and dad are both at work and the kids get into troubles. There is no savings, all the family's income is going just to pay the rent or mortgage (thank the housing bubble for that, inflated specifically by the banks with government blessing to give the illusion of prosperity).
One recession, one family disaster and the family finds itself in deeply troubled waters. Where the family used to have it's own safety nets there are none now save government safety nets.

And it's all started at the foundation by monetary policy which devalued the very currency that all of the family's labors are based in.

So give the family free or cheaper insurance. Costs still go up and up and up. Let little Johnny and Jenny stay on mom and dad's insurance policy until 26 years old. Might as well since Johnny and Jenny's parents can't afford to send them to college. If the kids get loans then they'll be burdened by student loan debt the instant they get out of college and still can't find a job that enables them to actually move out of the parent's house. Might as well keep the kids on the parent's insurance, inflation cares not.

It is inflation that is causing this-

Player wrote:Money is siphoned off the workers in an unsustainable way.


Absolutely it's unsustainable. Just like all fiat currencies are unstable and unsustainable. Our current currency is only some 54 years old or so. A very old currency as far as fiat currencies go. And this is how it is and how it goes. All very predictable.

And it's all tied together. Those that worry that too many are taking advantage of the government dole, how can people not when what used to be private safety nets no longer exist? The government took that over long ago.
Those that cry about corporate greed screwing the workers, the companies operate in the same environment and have to deal with the same inflationary pressures as everything and everyone else and have to deal with those realities. Inflation harms everyone but particularly harms the so called middle class and poor. They feel the effects the most.

But inflation is good for those in debt. Debt is inflated away which leads to more debt. And everyone is in debt these days. A vicious cycle to say the least and all too often ignored. Government legislation is merely treatment for the symptoms of the disease, never addressing the actual disease itself because it's a disease government must have to function. To the detriment of everyone else. And look at who has the absolute most debt. Government, some $16 trillion+, inflation is their solution, their way of dealing with their debt, er...excuse me, our debt.

As a society we have run up all this debt and inflation is the only way to deal with this debt. But that solution will also kill a society as fast and surely as any decadent, extreme and deviant moral behavior would.

Until this particular issue is ever addressed and dealt with then things like Obamacare is just giving aspirin to stage five cancer victims. It might get rid of the sufferer's headaches but the patient is still dying and suffering. And this problem transcends political party. Both parties are under the limitations and control of the Money Powers. Just like the rest of us are. But we point fingers at each other, each other's political parties and each other's beliefs and morals instead of looking at the real culprit who's actions are the true cause of our many myriad of problems.

It's all about the money, stupid!
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