waauw wrote:anyhow... to get this topic back on track I wan't to ask the literalist believers, who believe the same thing as what chiro mentioned,
how do you explain the earth had less oxygen and more gravitypull because of 'the flood'?
universalchiro wrote:The next question would be well did he grab dinosaurs? The answer is yes. All dinosaurs are reptiles. the flood changed the conditions of the earth. Gravity was increased by about 25%. And oxygen concentration was reduced by 50%. Both those two things would change the genome over time and the result would be length of life is reduced and the size of life is reduced. After the flood age of life reduced with each passing generation. From Noah 900+, his son 750+, next son 550+, next son 450+, next generation son 350+, next generation son 275+, next son 250+, then came the book of Job. In the book of Job, there are Behemoth creatures with tails as large as Cedar trees. Cedar trees in Mesopotamian region grew 50-75 feet tall.
waauw,
I'm alone in this theory. Here is my hypothesis: The earth had weaker gravity before the flood and greater oxygen concentration before the flood. As a result of the flood: gravity was increased approximately 25% and oxygen was decreased approximately 50%.
Here are the facts:
A. Oxygen:
1. Amber bubbles that have captured atmosphere concentration in the past, scientist have determined oxygen concentration was higher when the sap oozed out of the tree, captured the oxygen and then petrified.
2. Glacier core samples have also revealed that in the past, atmosphere oxygen concentration was 50% higher than today's value.
3. Science has grown insects in hypoxia and hyperoxia to determine if variations in oxygen concentration effect or affected life. Their findings was substantially yes. Hypoxia environments resulted in smaller insects as a whole. Those that had no size change, had enlarged tracheal tubules to bring in higher volumes of air, which provided less room for other organs. the result of enlarged tracheal tubes and smaller other tissue, was smaller muscles, smaller tendons, smaller organs. Which means the insects ran slower, less endurance, less thriving of life. Conversely, the insects grown in hyperoxia, were larger. those that had same size, had smaller tracheal tubules and larger other tissues, so they ran faster, longer, equaling a thriving life.
4. Humans suffer from a whole host of ailments associated with lack or loss of oxygen. From ischemia, necrosis, pale, lethargic, heart attack, death, etc. This is corroborated in the Bible Leviticus 17:11 "life is in the blood". Blood carries oxygen. And God breathed life into the living: Genesis 2:7,. So life thrives with more oxygen, and life suffers with a lack of oxygen.
B. Gravity:
1. Some dinosaurs weighed 100 tons. Their porous bone structure would not be able to sustain such massive tonnage in this current earth's gravitational system. But scientist observe the porous bone structure of dinosaurs and compare that to similar porous bone structures of birds and assume dinosaurs evolved into birds. After all, both lay eggs. But dinos layed leather eggs and birds lay calcium shelled eggs, wholly different.
2. Astronauts that spend a great deal of time in space will lose bone density/mass. One study of an astronaut one year in space lost 14% bone mass.
3. If one gains a lot of weight, bone density will increase to handle the load.
4a. Moon's gravity causes 2 ocean tides per day. Each ocean tide, takes angular momentum out of the earth's rotational velocity. Each reduction in the earth's angular momentum, reduces centripetal force thereby increasing the net effect of gravity, though the mass of the earth had not changed.
4b. The moon uses this energy from the earth's angular momentum to move away from the earth at 3inches per year. Which means as we go back in time, the moon was closer and thereby took more angular momentum out the earth's spin. Which means the moon slowed the earth's spin exponentially greater in past millenniums.
5. Space dust adds 80,000lbs to the earth's mass each year, increasing earth's mass.
6. Each impacting asteroid and comet on the earth (only the very large ones), takes away angular momentum from the earth's spin velocity and does the same as B4.
C. Dinosaurs are reptiles. Reptiles will grow as long as they are alive.
D. Non-observable evidence, based on faith and deductive reasoning, this is not proven but a theory:
1. Genesis 1:2 "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters." At this point in time the universe was extremely small. How do we know this? Job 9:8, Jeremiah 51:15, clarify God stretched out the heavens. Why is this important? Well this is in harmony with science finding the universe is still expanding, meaning at one point it was small in size. Also, waters is in plural form: This could mean massive volume, but also simply that water existed in gas, liquid and solid state. How is this possible? Since the universe was densely packed, this would increase pressure and thereby reduce the freezing point. Also, if the waters had a high alkaline concentration (Na, Ca, P, Mg, Cl,etc), this would also reduce the freezing point. therefore allow waters to remain in 3 states (liquid, gas, solid).
2. Genesis 1:6- "Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. There was evening and there was morning, a second day." There were two expanses created, for later the name of the expanse, heaven, is in plural form. The first expanse becomes our atmosphere, the second expanse becomes space where all the galaxies reside. So this verse indicates there was an opening in the middle of water that became our atmosphere. How can we be sure there were more than one expanse? Paul was caught up to the "3rd heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4. So the first heaven is our atmosphere, with waters below and waters above. the second heaven is the universe, the third heaven is either distally beyond the universe or within our universe in a higher dimension (unknown). This 1st heaven/atmosphere/expanse is important to our gravity. How? The waters below the expanse become the seas in verse 9 "Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas". The waters above the expanse stayed there until the global flood of Genesis 7.
3. Waters above the atmosphere would increase atmospheric pressure. This increased atmospheric pressure would create a buoyancy effect, thereby reducing the net effect of gravity without changing the mass of the earth.
4. When the global flood came and rained for 40 days and 40 nights, this would increase the mass of the earth, thusly increasing gravity.
5. Prior to the flood: There was a canopy of water surrounding the earth, which created a green house effect.
a1. Ambient global temperatures: Genesis 3 "Adam and Eve were naked", no one is naked unless the temperatures are ambient..
a2. Ambient global temperatures: would mean no wind: Genesis 8: After the flood, massive polar ice caps formed.. Verse 1 "God caused a wind to pass over the earth".
a3. With Ambient global temperatures: There would be no wind, therefore no hydrological cycle and no rain: Genesis 2:5b "...For the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground". The only way this would be possible if the water tablet in the ground was high, essentially massive amounts of water underground: Genesis 7:11b "...on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the flood gates of the sky were opened. The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights". So not only did it rain, but water burst out of the earth from massive water caverns.
6. With a canopy of water surrounding the earth, before the global flood, the oceans would be much smaller, which means more land would be usable for vegetation and allow more production of oxygen. After the flood, there would be polar ice caps, desert because no ambient temperatures and massive oceans covering useful land. Hence oxygen drops by 50%.
6. Prior to the flood, the seas were not as deep as today, the mountains were not as high as today, the massive catastrophe of water bursting out of the earth in Genesis 7:11 caused great tectonic shifting.
7. As a result of the canopy of water coming down on earth, this highly alkaline water, to keep in liquid form while hovering around our atmosphere, would kill off a great deal of aquatic based behemoths that couldn't adapt to the change from fresh water to salt water. Potentially explains how water based dinosaurs died.
8. This massive amount of water coming down to earth in the global flood, would increase earth's gravity and decrease earth's oxygen concentration in the atmosphere. Paleontologist determine that dinosaurs nostril and lung capacity could not sustain them in today's oxygen concentration. Ergo, when dinos lived oxygen was higher, the flood sending that much water to form massive oceans, and the loss of the canopy of water equaled a loss of ambient global temperatures, resulting in polar ice caps and deserts, further reducing vegetation, further reducing oxygen production.
Summary: A global flood, explains the reduction of oxygen concentration and the increase in gravity.
The moon's gravity also increases earth's gravity (see Gravity: 4a & 4b)
That before the flood earth's gravity was 25% weaker, is an approximation.
that before the flood, oxygen concentration was 50% higher, is an approximation.
Since dinosaurs are reptiles. Imagine a reptile living in a high oxygen concentration and weaker gravity environment, that reptile would live a long time and grow very big. We may over time as the genome changes and further generations adapt to weak gravity and high oxygen, see very large reptiles. We may call them dinosaurs.
After the flood, life that survived would have to adapt to this change in increased gravity and decrease oxygen. This adaptation would be manifest in reduction in longevity and size. the Longevity of life is seen with genealogies in the Bible from Noah and his descendants to when the book of Job was written. the ages until death goes from Noah 950, Shem 600, Arpachshad 438, Shelah 433, Eber 464, Peleg 239, Reu 239, Serug 234, Nahor 148. .... Job lived 220+ years, which puts his book 5 generations after Noah. You can see the genome of humans adapting and length of life reducing. But Job writes about dinosaurs. He calls them Behemoths and Leviathans. But one of them has a tail as a Cedar Tree. Cedar Trees in Mesopotamian area grew to 50 to 75 to 100 tall. So a tail that long is only dinosauric. So as dinosaurs were also adapting to the change in gravity and oxygen, they were still noticed by cultures and pinned about them in books, cave walls, Mayan carvings, etc.
If earth's gravity was weaker in past, we would expect to see prior creatures that lived in that environment to have porous bone structure. And they did.
If earth's gravity was weaker in the past, we would expect to see very large life. And we have evidence of dinosaurs.
If earth's gravity was weaker in the past, we would expect to see physics showing how this is measurable. And it does. The moon's mass is measurable and calculating how much of the earth's angular momentum is lost we can calculate.
If earth's gravity was weaker in the past, and this supposedly altered life, we would expect to see life today altered by change in gravity. And it does. Astronauts lose bone density in space. Obese people gain bone mass to compensate for extra pull.
If earth's gravity was weaker in the past because of a faster spin, we would expect to see changes in gravity today from changes in earth's rotational velocity. And it does. Gravity at the poles (9.83m/s/s) is greater than gravity at the equator (9.79m/s/s).
If earth's gravity was weaker in the past, we would expect earth's mass increasing each year. This is trace, but 80,000lbs per year of space debris is added.
Gravity Theory summary:
1. With a canopy of water providing increased atmospheric pressure, this counters gravity and creates a buoyancy. Net effect is a weaker gravity.
2. With massive amounts of water surrounding the atmosphere, pre-flood, this reduces earth's mass, which reduces earth's gravity.
3. With the moon slowing the earth's spin, this decreases centripetal force, thereby net increases gravity without adding any mass to the earth.
Combining these results in earth's gravity being approximately 25% weaker before the flood.
Oxygen Hypothesis:
If O2 concentration in the atmosphere was greater in the past, we would expect to see life larger in the past. And it was. Fossil evidence.
If O2 concentration in the atmosphere was greater in the past and this altered life, we would expect to see life altered today with changes in O2 concentration. And there are. Life suffers with lack of O2 and life thrives with O2.
If O2 concentration in the atmosphere was greater in the past, we would expect to see evidence of this. There are in glacier core samples and amber, both show 50% higher O2 concentration.
If O2 concentration in the atmosphere was greater in the past, we would expect to see dinosaurs with smaller lung and nostril capacities as compared to creatures today on size basis. Dinos couldn't live in today's O2, not enough O2 for their small lungs.
Oxygen Theory Summary:
With glacier core samples and amber samples indicating O2 concentration was 50% higher.
1. The global flood produced massive oceans, reducing the amount of usable land for vegetation growth.
2. The loss of a canopy of water surrounding the atmosphere that came down in a flood, would cause temperature differences and subsequently result in polar ice caps and deserts. Both polar ice caps and deserts limit vegetation growth and reduce O2 concentration.
3. Oxygen results in how much life thrives. Take away or reduce O2, life suffers. Increase O2 concentration, life thrives, gets larger, grows faster and lives longer.
this is a first rough draft, forgive spelling errors and grammar errors. I have clearly stated this is a theory based on deduction of some facts and of some evidence and I stand alone in this theory. I am ready for your questions.
