End Game: Town Wins! (Island Mafia)

[zimmah]

Third, and don't see this as trying to play the empathy card, do you realize that this game might be quite hard for me because I have autism and therefore certain people skills don't come as natural to me as they come to you? I'm sincerely doing my best not to be a jerk, even though i might not be doing a very good job a it, so I'd appreciate it if at least you'd try to do the same, this game isn't about trolling, but about having fun right? I still love this game though, even though its pretty hard to play without getting emotionally involved.

No, I did not realise that, because I don't know anything about you as a person, because this is a message board... Strange assumption to make. I'll gladly admit I was trying to draw you out with a slight troll though, as I was interested in what would happen; this is what I do on day one. You having autism doesn't really change the situation, I think. Scumminess is scumminess, and tells are tells.

It seems sheep quoted the parts I considered quoting, thanks for that.

i thought it was well known around here, but that's okay.

well, technicaly yes, but i do not think my actions are scummy at all, especially because this is just how i play the game. i don't understand at least 60% of the jokes around here, probably more, while you guys seem to almost instantly know something is a joke, and something is not. leaving me to reply on something that was a joke, making me look stupid or scummy. also, i react differently to almost every single situation, which you guys interpret as scummy, while it's just my natural reaction. so it definitly makes a difference. therefore, even though scumminess is scummyness, and tells are tells, that doesn't mean that me having autism doens't change anything, because i behave way differently than any of you. in fact, every single person behaves in their own way, but the difference between me and aage for example are likely much more apart than the difference between aage and domyoshi, for example.

now on to sheeps post

first of all, i appreciate the fact that you actually took the time to make a real case instead of just pointing fingers, now we're getting somewhere at least.

Zimmah, there's a lot of scum tells in your posts.

I agree, doom is almost trying to get himself lynched. Could he be a jester?

Implying jester

i'm saying this because at the start of the game he asked to be a jester, and it'd be amazing coincidence if he would be one. I don't believe he is one though, but you can never be sure.

Backpedaling when criticized one post later.

I don't really see that as backpedaling, although i see why you'd say that. i was just explaining my initial post making it more clear why i posted it, although it may look like i'm backpedaling. The statement i wanted to make though, and which still remains, is that doom is not really contributing at all, he didn't even read the opening scene, and he seems to be trolling at the moment too, as he claims to have a scumread on IB, but refuses to give any sort of case, and i don't even understand what the rest of the post i quoted earlier is about. (and no, i'm not skimming, i just don't understand what yoshi is saying).

note: after reading aage's reponse i am starting to think yoshi was joking, but i don't really think that chances the case at all, because yoshi still hasn't contributed anything meaningful.

i'm not even fabricating a case, if anything, [aage] is.

Petty finger pointing. Would be nothing but then we have this:

Note that he mentions it are awful shots, while it were NPCs killed, which is usual for day 1 mod kills of non-players to set up the game, why would Rishead actually say something like this, it seems he's either inexperienced, confused, or trying to pull something scummy like making an opening for a PGO fakeclaim.

I already pointed to it earlier, but didn't follow up on it becaus I got distracted by other conversations.

So, by lack of something better vote rish

I'd say that's fabricating a case.

i don't really know what's wrong about voting rish, he does seem scummy, might be a slip of an SK, it's really the best bet right now in my opinion, i'm not even going to defend this, as i'm feeling pretty good about this statement, i'm not going to withdraw it just because one or two persons see it as scummy, and in fact, that might only make it more scummy anyway.

it's not fun to play when everything i say is being turned against me, even when i play like i always do.

isn't the point of the game to be critical?

So you can be critical and use anything someone says against them but when it happens to you, you cry foul.

i'm not sure but you may have a point here, i fail to see how this is scummy though. it's more like, what's the word? i don;t know what to call it really, but i don't really think it's scummy per se.

also, i'd like to say that i don't mind at all if you build cases like you do, with evidence and logic, but i do mind it when people just randomly vote me like jonty, or throw accusions towards me like aage. at least now we can talk about it peacefully.

wouldn't be the first time i have to ask for a replacement early in the game because people start getting too personal against me either.

Don't play victim here. You know full well what you are getting into when you sign up for these games.

it's not uncommon though, about every mafia game i have been in on this site i am being targeted day 1. no matter what i say or don't say.

The one time were I was scum, I won. All the other times. Have been misty chef, most often because at least some mafia framed me and the rest just sheeps.

Wait, so mafia have been framing you day 1? I'm a little confused.

You get upset when town criticize you and blame mafia for constantly framing you. This is mafia. This is how the game is played.

You blame mafia for framing you, you blame town for being sheep (I resent that statement by the way), you blame town for criticizing you, and you blame people for getting too personal with you. So you blame people for playing them game and you get offended when you perceive it as a perceive it as a personal attack.

the problem is, that because many players around here know my meta (i tend to get pretty upset when people vote me or even harrass me for no reason at all), mafia either harrasses me, or waits until i feel attacked by a random townie and than anonymously throw fuel on the flames until i get lynched, because everyone knows the more you push me the more i bite, i know this is bad habit and i am trying my best to improve on it, but this is just how it is for now, it's not something you can change within a few posts/games. however, i fail to see why this behavior of mine is a scumtell, as there's nothing scummy about it.

furthermore, why is doom getting a 'this is just how doom plays' while i get 'look how scummy zim is' every game?

he's not even posting anything useful yet he blames me for posting nothing useful

Oh, like these posts?

what a bullshit logic is that, i'm being critical, therefore i'm scum, isn't the point of the game to be critical?

How is "blame zimmah" the right question?

i'm not even fabricating a case, if anything, he is.

I suspect rish is SK, we won't know until (yes, I'm being obvious here)

1) he's lynched
2) he's killed (unlikely)
3) some combined efforts reveal him as such (unlikely)
4) cop reveals him (pretty unlikely as well, even if for the sake of argument we even assume we do have one)
5) someone else flips SK (which pretty much proves him innocent, or at least not SK)
6) game ends and his role is revealed

You can replace rish with anyone and the same logic applies. It's an incredibly weak argument and only serves to make you look scummy.

actually no, because rish is the only one who posted something a SK could potentially do, it'd be a terribly bad move, but he might have miscalculated or slipped, it's probably not the first time someone slips that early. I mean, trying to get away with claiming PGO by misleading town could be something an SK could try, SK is a risky role to play anyway, might not even be the worst move to try to pull something day 1.

and you [aage] also seem to be on a quest to make me look bad.

No, you are doing that yourself just fine.

There's an incredible amount of doubletalk in your posts. I don't know what role you are, or your alignment. But the amount of doubletalking scum tells is enough to get you lynched.

doubletalk? i don't really think i do change my opinion that often, also, i don't really see anything lynchworthy in my posts.

i think it important to remember that this is a game and no matter what your role is it isn't you as a person, so no it isn't personal, we accuse the role and lynch scummy roles, but this doesn't reflect on you as a person.

anyways just feel like saying that because it seems that you are taking it personally

so right now zimmah does seem pretty scummy but, i don't think he is, basically because i would expect scum to stop posting or change how they are playing the game when they have drawn this much attention but hes stayed the same. i think rish was just speculating about the PGO/SK thing, but i would personally say SK than PGO,


also as a heads up ill be out of town starting this friday till june 2, so my internet connection will be sporadic during those days, but i will check in when i can.

at least 3 different persons say i am acting scummy, but what exactly is scummy about my posts?

[zimmah]

Before people are going to call me out on my statement about saying doom didnt say anything meaningful, he did in fact defend aage early in the game, which could prove relevant later in the game.

I read over that one in my notes. He still seems to be quite eh passive? Indifferent? about the current situation though, I wonder if he even realizes jokevote stage ended a few pages ago. (That was sarcasm)

[safariguy5]

So zimmah said that

Between doom admitting he skimmed, and you defending doom, I think you're both weird at the best, and anti town at worst, however, after carefully analyzing all the events up until noe, I have to say Rishead is the scummiest.

He calls PGO out of nowhere, and even sais

As a forewarning, this is a no vanilla game. The name of Island mafia is strictly for storymaking only. There is a hidden theme to the game that will be announced at the end for those who wish to know, though if you can figure it out in the game, it may make a large difference in how the game plays out.

So a few things to keep conversation going. I'm sure that we have an SK/PGO and a GF in this game from start up scene. That being said they are awful shots. They hit the only two Vt's in the game. more to come in observations later tonight

Note that he mentions it are awful shots, while it were NPCs killed, which is usual for day 1 mod kills of non-players to set up the game, why would Rishead actually say something like this, it seems he's either inexperienced, confused, or trying to pull something scummy like making an opening for a PGO fakeclaim.

I already pointed to it earlier, but didn't follow up on it becaus I got distracted by other conversations.

So, by lack of something better vote rish

So therefore let's look at the earlier post that details this.

As a forewarning, this is a no vanilla game. The name of Island mafia is strictly for storymaking only. There is a hidden theme to the game that will be announced at the end for those who wish to know, though if you can figure it out in the game, it may make a large difference in how the game plays out.

So a few things to keep conversation going. I'm sure that we have an SK/PGO and a GF in this game from start up scene. That being said they are awful shots. They hit the only two Vt's in the game. more to come in observations later tonight

Gonna quote to keep it together. The reason I think we may have a PGO is that she visited the "food Source" And he killed her to prevent her from telling others about his farm. The hidden twist I think can be either good/bad he says it will affect how the game plays out, if it affects how the mafia play and benifits them it would be bad. However If we as town could figure the twist out w/out letting Scum know, then we might be able to use it to our advantage. Obvious right? The question becomes how to figure the hidden theme out. I am assuming that there will be a common thread in all of the scenes, but ever so slight as not to give it away. Any other thoughts on what I've said so far?

The game started with a day phase. Not a night phase, so the NPC kills are not actual night actions, but can still point us towards night actions. I don't think it's a PGO either because he seemed to be an expert killer rather than a paranoid guy who just randomly pulls the trigger. It seems therefore more like an SK. So, a mafia faction as well as an SK seem plausible.

I'm not sure what the food has to do with it, but it might just be flavor, it's pretty clear that some (probably global) apocalypse happened, Altough it's not known what kind of disaster happened, and how long ago it was, and how severe, etc. but food seems to be scarse, either worldwide or only on the island. I'm not sure if this has any effect other than flavor though.

The post zimmah references I assume is this one. I see this as flavor spec, not as an accusatory post. Nothing in this post indicated that zimmah thought rishaed was scummy or that the PGO identification was odd. But now zimmah is trying to imply that he pointed out that rishaed was scummy before I did.

First of all, it's meant to give zimmah credence when he claims that we ignore his case. This is not true in this case.

Second of all, I see zimmah trying to lay the groundwork for taking some of the credit if we lynch rishaed and he turns out scum. By not bringing up the fact that his case against rishaed is basically a rehash of my case, he can point to this post later and claim to be pro town.

I still think the rishaed case carries more merit, but I will FOS zimmah for trying to covertly build town cred when that is not deserved.

[rishaed]

So zimmah said that

Between doom admitting he skimmed, and you defending doom, I think you're both weird at the best, and anti town at worst, however, after carefully analyzing all the events up until noe, I have to say Rishead is the scummiest.

He calls PGO out of nowhere, and even sais

As a forewarning, this is a no vanilla game. The name of Island mafia is strictly for storymaking only. There is a hidden theme to the game that will be announced at the end for those who wish to know, though if you can figure it out in the game, it may make a large difference in how the game plays out.

So a few things to keep conversation going. I'm sure that we have an SK/PGO and a GF in this game from start up scene. That being said they are awful shots. They hit the only two Vt's in the game. more to come in observations later tonight

Note that he mentions it are awful shots, while it were NPCs killed, which is usual for day 1 mod kills of non-players to set up the game, why would Rishead actually say something like this, it seems he's either inexperienced, confused, or trying to pull something scummy like making an opening for a PGO fakeclaim.

I already pointed to it earlier, but didn't follow up on it becaus I got distracted by other conversations.

So, by lack of something better vote rish

So therefore let's look at the earlier post that details this.

As a forewarning, this is a no vanilla game. The name of Island mafia is strictly for storymaking only. There is a hidden theme to the game that will be announced at the end for those who wish to know, though if you can figure it out in the game, it may make a large difference in how the game plays out.

So a few things to keep conversation going. I'm sure that we have an SK/PGO and a GF in this game from start up scene. That being said they are awful shots. They hit the only two Vt's in the game. more to come in observations later tonight

Gonna quote to keep it together. The reason I think we may have a PGO is that she visited the "food Source" And he killed her to prevent her from telling others about his farm. The hidden twist I think can be either good/bad he says it will affect how the game plays out, if it affects how the mafia play and benifits them it would be bad. However If we as town could figure the twist out w/out letting Scum know, then we might be able to use it to our advantage. Obvious right? The question becomes how to figure the hidden theme out. I am assuming that there will be a common thread in all of the scenes, but ever so slight as not to give it away. Any other thoughts on what I've said so far?

The game started with a day phase. Not a night phase, so the NPC kills are not actual night actions, but can still point us towards night actions. I don't think it's a PGO either because he seemed to be an expert killer rather than a paranoid guy who just randomly pulls the trigger. It seems therefore more like an SK. So, a mafia faction as well as an SK seem plausible.

I'm not sure what the food has to do with it, but it might just be flavor, it's pretty clear that some (probably global) apocalypse happened, Altough it's not known what kind of disaster happened, and how long ago it was, and how severe, etc. but food seems to be scarse, either worldwide or only on the island. I'm not sure if this has any effect other than flavor though.

The post zimmah references I assume is this one. I see this as flavor spec, not as an accusatory post. Nothing in this post indicated that zimmah thought rishaed was scummy or that the PGO identification was odd. But now zimmah is trying to imply that he pointed out that rishaed was scummy before I did.

First of all, it's meant to give zimmah credence when he claims that we ignore his case. This is not true in this case.

Second of all, I see zimmah trying to lay the groundwork for taking some of the credit if we lynch rishaed and he turns out scum. By not bringing up the fact that his case against rishaed is basically a rehash of my case, he can point to this post later and claim to be pro town.

I still think the rishaed case carries more merit, but I will FOS zimmah for trying to covertly build town cred when that is not deserved.

Ok, simply put A. I was indeed joking, an icebreaker if you will.
B. I would never fakeclaim/ or softfakeclaim at the start of a day. Its like a policy lynch for D1.
This is just a train of thought post. It basically states what I thought I could draw out of the scene without overanalyzing it or doing any basic analyzation. See GF reply to Neb.
Otherwise I will also FoS Zimmah for Saf's reason stated above. I'm not yet to a point where I will vote him however. I will also unvote. Not enough of you agree about doom's missing the OP enough to vote him so, I will see what other leads show up.

[new guy1]

Official Vote Count:

Doom: Aage, Rishaed, djfireside (L-4)
Chuck: Sheepofdumb (L-6)
IB: doom (L-6)
Risaed: Safariguy, Zimmah, Chuck (L-4)
Zimmah: Jonty (L-6)

Out of game, but not out of mind:
Freezie: IB

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is in 4 days.

[rishaed]

Official Vote Count:

Doom: Aage, Rishaed, djfireside (L-4)
Chuck: Sheepofdumb (L-6)
IB: doom (L-6)
Risaed: Safariguy, Zimmah, Chuck (L-4)
Zimmah: Jonty (L-6)

Out of game, but not out of mind:
Freezie: IB

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is in 4 days.

i unvoted... That being said if it comes to deadline and i'm on the chopping block it would be nice to have a 24 hr extension to claim as my week is very busy and i am currently working 13-14hr days thax.

[new guy1]

Official Vote Count:

Doom: Aage, Rishaed, djfireside (L-4)
Chuck: Sheepofdumb (L-6)
IB: doom (L-6)
Risaed: Safariguy, Zimmah, Chuck (L-4)
Zimmah: Jonty (L-6)

Out of game, but not out of mind:
Freezie: IB

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is in 4 days.

i unvoted... That being said if it comes to deadline and i'm on the chopping block it would be nice to have a 24 hr extension to claim as my week is very busy and i am currently working 13-14hr days thax.

Very sorry. It has been noted and will be in the next Vote count.

[DoomYoshi]

With 4 days late, I would like to have extended my time. I was watching a slow interaction unfold that I am almost positive is scum-scum and I just wanted a "smoking gun" piece before I shit my cards on the table.

Scum-Scum is IB-sheep.

First:

When I have played on a mafia team, IE the bad guys, the last thing I would do as a mafia player is bring attention to the fact that there is a mafia Godfather, especially if there is one. While the opening scene strongly suggests there is one, that by no means guarantees there is one.

I believe it would be foolish for mafia to draw attention to a role who's strength is the ability to appear town, that is they come up as town with a cop investigation. Granted this may be WIFOM and it is certainly a small thing but it gives me pause.

I have not played with Zimmah in a long time but he has quickly given me a reminder of his play style. He is the always persecuted townie who no one believes, failing to understand that each game gives everyone the same exact possibility to be Town or Scum. He bangs his head in frustration because no one will listen while at the same time refusing to understand the mechanics of mafia game play. In essence he plays with the philosophy, "I am Town and because you dare question I may not be that must make you scum."

To me the most suspicious folk are the ones laying low such as Gregwolf and Sheepofdumb.

Take out the WIFOM and safe accusations and you are left with a description of zimmah's meta. To me, this is a pointer to zimmah being more likely scum. Very few people were seriously considering a lynch of zimmah (the supposed ringleaders of the imaginary case not having voted him) so no defense was needed. Yet here was a pretty rock-solid meta defense. My case is not on zim though here, but rather on IB.

So he says the most suspicious are the ones laying low? Yet, IB himself has been laying low.

What is sheep's response to being thrown in the limelight?

A super long post on an easy takedown with no mention of IB.

So, this case is more based on intuition than I like. But sheep is 60% scum, IB 40% and if sheep is scum, then zimmah is town.

unvote vote sheep

[sheepofdumb]

The problem with the case against Zimmah is not that he's giving off scumtells (he is), but rather that his scum tells are a product of bad play. Something I forgot to mention in my post as a conclusion. I already did all that work and I wanted to know what others thought so I threw it out there to stir the pot.

Zimmah's throwing out rather silly questions, argumentative posts about meta, and rather useless posts about no-brainer mafia gameplay. But I think he's been annoying and argumentative more than scum. Being autistic and not having very good social skills (which is a thing if you're autistic) it makes a lot of sense.

I'm not sure what to think. If anything I hope Zimmah will take something out of this game and learn that his playstyle and temper are what get him lynched. Maybe he'll finally get it. I hate to lynch bad players if they can be taught what they did wrong.

As for any other players, no opinion at this time. Has DJ been posting? I think he's AWOL as well.

[jonty125]

Zimmah, my reason for voting you wasn't random. It's that you're dropping scumtells left, right and center, other players have previously pinted these out, analaysed them. So that is why I'm voting you.

[Iron Butterfly]

With 4 days late, I would like to have extended my time. I was watching a slow interaction unfold that I am almost positive is scum-scum and I just wanted a "smoking gun" piece before I shit my cards on the table.

Scum-Scum is IB-sheep.

First:

When I have played on a mafia team, IE the bad guys, the last thing I would do as a mafia player is bring attention to the fact that there is a mafia Godfather, especially if there is one. While the opening scene strongly suggests there is one, that by no means guarantees there is one.

I believe it would be foolish for mafia to draw attention to a role who's strength is the ability to appear town, that is they come up as town with a cop investigation. Granted this may be WIFOM and it is certainly a small thing but it gives me pause.

I have not played with Zimmah in a long time but he has quickly given me a reminder of his play style. He is the always persecuted townie who no one believes, failing to understand that each game gives everyone the same exact possibility to be Town or Scum. He bangs his head in frustration because no one will listen while at the same time refusing to understand the mechanics of mafia game play. In essence he plays with the philosophy, "I am Town and because you dare question I may not be that must make you scum."

To me the most suspicious folk are the ones laying low such as Gregwolf and Sheepofdumb.

Take out the WIFOM and safe accusations and you are left with a description of zimmah's meta. To me, this is a pointer to zimmah being more likely scum. Very few people were seriously considering a lynch of zimmah (the supposed ringleaders of the imaginary case not having voted him) so no defense was needed. Yet here was a pretty rock-solid meta defense. My case is not on zim though here, but rather on IB.

So he says the most suspicious are the ones laying low? Yet, IB himself has been laying low.

What is sheep's response to being thrown in the limelight?

A super long post on an easy takedown with no mention of IB.

So, this case is more based on intuition than I like. But sheep is 60% scum, IB 40% and if sheep is scum, then zimmah is town.

unvote vote sheep

I think you confuse me laying low with me not responding to your BS or the back and fourth between Zimmah and several others? lets be honest, you have been up my ass from the start. I have ignored you.

I believe zimmah is Town. I have no problem stating that. I have stayed out of the fray because it serves no useful purpose other then to watch what others have to contribute to the exchange with him.

To be honest, Doom you have always had crappy intuition. Your posts this game have been useless other then to stir the pot, which can be a good thing.

Vote Sheep

What is more important and insightful about Sheeps post is that he spends all that time and energy trying to show why Zimmah is scum and yet does not vote him. He only makes a contribution once I bring attention to the fact that he has been scumarining. He piles on Zimmah because it is safe and easy to do.

[zimmah]

Okay, a lot happened while i was at school and it's hard keeping my notes on my ipad, so i transfered them to a google sheet file to make them a bit more readable.

@Safari:

Also, however weak of a defense it may be, in my notes i had this exact line about the rish case:

Rishaed seems confused about the setup, sais he thinks there's a PGO. not sure if misleading or inexperienced.

it's not much of a defense, but i tought i stated something simular in the treat, i have looked it up, but what you quoted is indeed pretty much the only thing i have actually said about it in public. so my bad. even in my notes i didn't have a strong opinion on it yet, and maybe that's part of the reason i didn't bring it up yet, as well as the other cases blending in as well.

so, it wasn't an attempt to build town cred but i do admit it may seem very much like it.

@Sheep

I don't even really feel i need to reply to you again, i already did, and you didn't really add anything else to the case, i'm not going back and forth again, i'm not a tape recorder

@jonty

you're even worse, you're just repeating what others said, and you're not even taking the effort to quote parts of my posts to prove a point, come back to me when you ACTUALLY have a case. in fact, i think it's quite scummy because:

I have to agree, an overly scummy defense. unvote, vote zimmah. I don't think the rish was cueing up a PGO fakeclaim holds much water, and I am much more confident with my vote based on hard posts, rather than speculation.

i mean really? hard posts, no speculation? what kind of FACTS do you have than, if your vote on me is NOT based on speculation?, and what makes your facts (i really don't see any facts either, as you're basically just saying 'i agree with sheep and aage') better than anyone elses? also, this is about the only 'contribution' of you so far.


@ everyone
Another thing that is very scummy and has not been mentioned at all so far, is that djfireside has exactly 4 posts, and i'll quote all 4 of them here to show what's so scummy about them:

Ill play. Love different typed games

nothing scummy yet

Vote Iron

Because you feel left out I am putting your name on a super cool list!!

jokevote, still not scummy

Who knows. There was no follow-up so just noting it as strange and I believe that marks the end of the Joke-vote stage. Thank you all for coming and be sure to tip your waiter.

UNVOTE

jokeunvote still not scummy

I would tend to agree its more just laziness and that would believe that they can learn from the game etc etc etc.

However since there is no traction being gathered and we will quickly run out of time since conversation seems to go all around I will push pressure to get moving in some way.

vote doom

note that this was posted 2 days ago, while we still have plenty of time, and any good mod would grant extra time if at least there's a good discussion going on. note how he is voting doom right after the incident where doom said he didn't read the opening scene, which is not scummy in itself, but the reason he states (time is running out, convo is going round), followed by the fact that he has been awfully silent afterwards is dis-concerning, while the discussion seem pretty healthy to me, although some amount of circling is going on, there's plenty of topics (new and old ones) to give your opinion about.

i haven't played with djfireside much, but i am pretty certain that he is the scummarining type. it seems easy enough to hop on the bandwagon early, hoping doom would get lynched without much discussion because of a pretty obvious case of skimming. however, after the doom case didn't pick up any kind of traction, he seems to wait until this whole thing passes.

about the doom case though, i don't know why he'd ever want to skip the OS, but i don't think he's scum. another particularly weird thing is that he agrees with aage here:

Pokemon Chap 1 (modded by me) had Magikarp as a Jester, played by Army of GOD.

The opening scene is as uninteresting as this discussion... The flavour tells us there are two killing factions, period. Quite obvious, isn't it?

This is what I was getting at. Apparently that means I am asking for a lynch.

Here is a challenge for everyone out there. Find a game more recent than Final Fantasy VII Mafia (modded by Rodion) in which I have NOT been accused of trying to act scummy. You can even check mafiascum, I get it all the time there too. Admittedly, it's kind of getting boring.

How about a Yoshi Roll Call (patent pending)?

how can you actually make a statement about the OS being uninteresting when you claim you haven't read it? ofc. there's a chance he has read it afterwards, but still you can't really say: "well i didn't read it because i knew in advance it wasn't going to be interesting". off course it's interesting, it sets the game up and it's the only source of realiable D1 information besides your role PM.

i really don't know what to think of it, and if we didn't have so much else to talk about i'd really vote doom for being this much of a skimmer and even a potential liar.

for now though, i think sheep, jonty and djfireside are the ones to look at. (and rish might be SK, based on the PGO/SK/GF thing)

[TheForgivenOne]

Yikes, Didn't get a chance to really check in, and i miss a lot.

For the Zimmah case, I really don't believe he is mafia, and most of his overly defensive stances are based on previous games.

Zimmah, there's a lot of scum tells in your posts.

I agree, doom is almost trying to get himself lynched. Could he be a jester?

Implying jester

i'm saying this because at the start of the game he asked to be a jester, and it'd be amazing coincidence if he would be one. I don't believe he is one though, but you can never be sure.

Backpedaling when criticized one post later.

I really don't see these as scum tells, more as a part rhetoric, part thinking out loud type of question. It may be a dumb question, as this is an "end of the word" setting, and I can't really see someone wanting to be hung in this setting after coming so far to survive, but you can't just dismiss it.

But I do believe he has brought up something useful against DJ. While at the time, there wasn't all the much of a case going against anyone, but we weren't exactly minutes away from the day ending. We had over 5 days still, and it wasn't exactly like nobody was posting at the time, and he didn't even give a reason as to why he voted doom. I don't play too often on this forum but don't you usually give a reason for the vote, or at least point to someone who brought up a good case? There wasn't much against doom, besides not reading the opening scene.

So as of right now, my FoS is going against DJ

[new guy1]

Official Vote Count:

Doom: Aage, djfireside (L-5)
Chuck: Sheepofdumb (L-6)
Risaed: Safariguy, Zimmah, Chuck (L-4)
Zimmah: Jonty (L-6)
sheepofdoom: Doomyoshi, IB (L-5)


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
I am adding on an extension of about 8 hours to make the deadline 22:00 hours EST (which I think is actually CC time as well). Another extension may still be requested. Deadline is in 72 hours.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Honestly, I lost interest once the personal stuff started coming out...now that that's done with...

There are a lot of accusations flying around, based on day one. I think I have Doom, Iron B, Zimmah, and now Sheep, jonty, DJ and Rishaed? Is that right? So, basically, everyone is a suspect. Well, haven't we done a great job sniffing that out (sarcasm).

Here's my thoughts...I give DJ a pass for now, I've learned that inactives on D1 don't really matter, and DJ can be quite a strong town later in the game, I think. And if we're really going inactives, Chuck and Greg should also be thrown in there. Iron B I don't really see as being scummy...I didn't really follow Doom's logic. Doom is being himself as far as I can tell...he always seems scummy, but I think he's an overexcited townie here. Sheep...I have no idea. Haven't played with him before. I could take him or leave him at this point. Jonty...I don't really see anything on him.

This leaves me to Rishaed and Zimmah. Rish has stated how proud he is that he plays is the same way whether he is mafia or not. Quite honestly, that scares me, as he could be dangerous later on. Zimmah. I'm taking the personal crap out and just looking at this game...he's scummy as hell. Sure he could be an overeager townie trying to sniff the mafia out...but he's all over the place. Bad reactions to posts and now a flurry of accusations.

vote Rishaed. He's the scarier prospect at this point. If Zimmah is mafia, he'll hang himself later.

Fastposted

[sheepofdumb]

With 4 days late, I would like to have extended my time. I was watching a slow interaction unfold that I am almost positive is scum-scum and I just wanted a "smoking gun" piece before I shit my cards on the table.

Scum-Scum is IB-sheep.

First:

When I have played on a mafia team, IE the bad guys, the last thing I would do as a mafia player is bring attention to the fact that there is a mafia Godfather, especially if there is one. While the opening scene strongly suggests there is one, that by no means guarantees there is one.

I believe it would be foolish for mafia to draw attention to a role who's strength is the ability to appear town, that is they come up as town with a cop investigation. Granted this may be WIFOM and it is certainly a small thing but it gives me pause.

I have not played with Zimmah in a long time but he has quickly given me a reminder of his play style. He is the always persecuted townie who no one believes, failing to understand that each game gives everyone the same exact possibility to be Town or Scum. He bangs his head in frustration because no one will listen while at the same time refusing to understand the mechanics of mafia game play. In essence he plays with the philosophy, "I am Town and because you dare question I may not be that must make you scum."

To me the most suspicious folk are the ones laying low such as Gregwolf and Sheepofdumb.

Take out the WIFOM and safe accusations and you are left with a description of zimmah's meta. To me, this is a pointer to zimmah being more likely scum. Very few people were seriously considering a lynch of zimmah (the supposed ringleaders of the imaginary case not having voted him) so no defense was needed. Yet here was a pretty rock-solid meta defense. My case is not on zim though here, but rather on IB.

So he says the most suspicious are the ones laying low? Yet, IB himself has been laying low.

What is sheep's response to being thrown in the limelight?

A super long post on an easy takedown with no mention of IB.

So, this case is more based on intuition than I like. But sheep is 60% scum, IB 40% and if sheep is scum, then zimmah is town.

unvote vote sheep

I think you confuse me laying low with me not responding to your BS or the back and fourth between Zimmah and several others? lets be honest, you have been up my ass from the start. I have ignored you.

I believe zimmah is Town. I have no problem stating that. I have stayed out of the fray because it serves no useful purpose other then to watch what others have to contribute to the exchange with him.

To be honest, Doom you have always had crappy intuition. Your posts this game have been useless other then to stir the pot, which can be a good thing.

Vote Sheep

What is more important and insightful about Sheeps post is that he spends all that time and energy trying to show why Zimmah is scum and yet does not vote him. He only makes a contribution once I bring attention to the fact that he has been scumarining. He piles on Zimmah because it is safe and easy to do.

While I thought Zimmah was giving off a lot of scum tells I believe it was because of his poor play and not because he's trying to kill us.

Aage on the other hand, has been giving a lot of white noise. 95% of his posts are spam or antagonizing Zimmah.

The important difference between your posts, Zimmah, and mine is that I don't pretend to contribute.

And that's what he did. There's nothing of value in his posts and there's quite a few posts. Vote aage

My apologies for being inactive, I was finishing school for the summer and was busy up until my big post. Again, I thought Zimmah was pretty scummy until I read up on him.

[DoomYoshi]

It is ironic that dj votes me for laziness just to vanish.

[tangent]
@zimmah: I hate when scenes give information. Once, there was a confirmed cop who said: "I'm going to investigate DY tonight" and even though I was a godfather, TSL wrote in the scene "the cop was looking at scum" and they hung me. Getting information from scenes is cheap. It's like shit made in China. I'd rather just not.
[/tangent]

[rishaed]

It is ironic that dj votes me for laziness just to vanish.

[tangent]
@zimmah: I hate when scenes give information. Once, there was a confirmed cop who said: "I'm going to investigate DY tonight" and even though I was a godfather, TSL wrote in the scene "the cop was looking at scum" and they hung me. Getting information from scenes is cheap. It's like shit made in China. I'd rather just not.
[/tangent]

that however is the Moderator's fault. It is one thing to give out peoples alignments. If anything that should not have been in the scene at all. However the fact that we as town can draw some information from the scene is good for us. As well as hints as to what role we might have for or against us. I cannot give out input on aage at the moment, however I do believe most of his steam was from arguing with Zimmah, and getting a bit too personal. Not all that much extremely solid input. Since Jonty has put me at L-3 I might as well let you guys know that I will be more useful later rather than sooner. I'd like to avoid a full claim at the moment if I could help it.

[safariguy5]

It is ironic that dj votes me for laziness just to vanish.

[tangent]
@zimmah: I hate when scenes give information. Once, there was a confirmed cop who said: "I'm going to investigate DY tonight" and even though I was a godfather, TSL wrote in the scene "the cop was looking at scum" and they hung me. Getting information from scenes is cheap. It's like shit made in China. I'd rather just not.
[/tangent]

that however is the Moderator's fault. It is one thing to give out peoples alignments. If anything that should not have been in the scene at all. However the fact that we as town can draw some information from the scene is good for us. As well as hints as to what role we might have for or against us. I cannot give out input on aage at the moment, however I do believe most of his steam was from arguing with Zimmah, and getting a bit too personal. Not all that much extremely solid input. Since Jonty has put me at L-3 I might as well let you guys know that I will be more useful later rather than sooner. I'd like to avoid a full claim at the moment if I could help it.

This could mean one of many things. Certainly, roleblockers can be more useful later rather than sooner, but then again, so could doctors. Possibly vote stealer, or possibly a bus driver, but this doesn't tell us much. I think we need to decide whether or not we want to push for a full claim from rishaed or pursue something else. Maybe a prod on Dj and if he doesn't respond soon, a replacement?

I'd also think that discussions revolving around zimmah's playstyle don't hold a lot of weight with me with regards to other people being scummy (aage, sheep, IB, etc.) When one person posts a lot in one day, they tend to be the focal point of discussion, and it usually ends the day with them being heavily involved in what happens with claims/lynching. See Rodion in one of Com9's games, it took us forever to decide what to do with him because of his massive posting. Therefore, it's almost impossible not to have an opinion of zimmah, and I do not believe this is grounds for cases on other people at this moment. The fact that at least 3 accusations are based somewhat around zimmah is only proof of that.

Therefore, I think the best options now are either pushing rish for a full claim (which I am in favor of) or pursuing an inactive claim/lynch (which I don't think will be as productive information wise).

[rishaed]

It is ironic that dj votes me for laziness just to vanish.

[tangent]
@zimmah: I hate when scenes give information. Once, there was a confirmed cop who said: "I'm going to investigate DY tonight" and even though I was a godfather, TSL wrote in the scene "the cop was looking at scum" and they hung me. Getting information from scenes is cheap. It's like shit made in China. I'd rather just not.
[/tangent]

that however is the Moderator's fault. It is one thing to give out peoples alignments. If anything that should not have been in the scene at all. However the fact that we as town can draw some information from the scene is good for us. As well as hints as to what role we might have for or against us. I cannot give out input on aage at the moment, however I do believe most of his steam was from arguing with Zimmah, and getting a bit too personal. Not all that much extremely solid input. Since Jonty has put me at L-3 I might as well let you guys know that I will be more useful later rather than sooner. I'd like to avoid a full claim at the moment if I could help it.

This could mean one of many things. Certainly, roleblockers can be more useful later rather than sooner, but then again, so could doctors. Possibly vote stealer, or possibly a bus driver, but this doesn't tell us much. I think we need to decide whether or not we want to push for a full claim from rishaed or pursue something else. Maybe a prod on Dj and if he doesn't respond soon, a replacement?

I'd also think that discussions revolving around zimmah's playstyle don't hold a lot of weight with me with regards to other people being scummy (aage, sheep, IB, etc.) When one person posts a lot in one day, they tend to be the focal point of discussion, and it usually ends the day with them being heavily involved in what happens with claims/lynching. See Rodion in one of Com9's games, it took us forever to decide what to do with him because of his massive posting. Therefore, it's almost impossible not to have an opinion of zimmah, and I do not believe this is grounds for cases on other people at this moment. The fact that at least 3 accusations are based somewhat around zimmah is only proof of that.

Therefore, I think the best options now are either pushing rish for a full claim (which I am in favor of) or pursuing an inactive claim/lynch (which I don't think will be as productive information wise).

A. Right Direction, but not quite there.
B. I agree with this statement (bolded)
C.As much as I might be the best one to claim for town D1, I may also be a bad choice come endgame, the Night Actions will help that play out. If it becomes necessary I will claim fully, however I will need you guys to unvote/vote no lynch if you don't want me to die afterwards. I will start off that way in case I don't get to check this game the next coupla days vote NL

[sheepofdumb]

Oh, quick fix Unvote vote aage

There we go.

[aage]

While I thought Zimmah was giving off a lot of scum tells I believe it was because of his poor play and not because he's trying to kill us.

Aage on the other hand, has been giving a lot of white noise. 95% of his posts are spam or antagonizing Zimmah.

The important difference between your posts, Zimmah, and mine is that I don't pretend to contribute.

And that's what he did. There's nothing of value in his posts and there's quite a few posts. Vote aage

My apologies for being inactive, I was finishing school for the summer and was busy up until my big post. Again, I thought Zimmah was pretty scummy until I read up on him.

Ah, but wasn't it you who made the big post with all the quotes that followed from the discussion between me and Zimmah? If you truly believe I was giving off white noise, you most certainly must believe that post was useless as well, which would bring your contribution towards a near zero. Hypocrite.

As for the contents of my posts, I have been very open about this. I was trying to draw Zimmah out. It worked, and now I have a better read on him, and I like to think the rest of us do too.

My contribution to the other discussions has been low because I had decided I wouldn't cast a lynching vote on day 1 in this game unless there was an obvious tell. Right now I'm quite happy with sitting at the sideline and pointing out false reasoning and mistakes.

[zimmah]

Honestly, I lost interest once the personal stuff started coming out...now that that's done with...

There are a lot of accusations flying around, based on day one. I think I have Doom, Iron B, Zimmah, and now Sheep, jonty, DJ and Rishaed? Is that right? So, basically, everyone is a suspect. Well, haven't we done a great job sniffing that out (sarcasm).

Here's my thoughts...I give DJ a pass for now, I've learned that inactives on D1 don't really matter, and DJ can be quite a strong town later in the game, I think. And if we're really going inactives, Chuck and Greg should also be thrown in there. Iron B I don't really see as being scummy...I didn't really follow Doom's logic. Doom is being himself as far as I can tell...he always seems scummy, but I think he's an overexcited townie here. Sheep...I have no idea. Haven't played with him before. I could take him or leave him at this point. Jonty...I don't really see anything on him.

This leaves me to Rishaed and Zimmah. Rish has stated how proud he is that he plays is the same way whether he is mafia or not. Quite honestly, that scares me, as he could be dangerous later on. Zimmah. I'm taking the personal crap out and just looking at this game...he's scummy as hell. Sure he could be an overeager townie trying to sniff the mafia out...but he's all over the place. Bad reactions to posts and now a flurry of accusations.

vote Rishaed. He's the scarier prospect at this point. If Zimmah is mafia, he'll hang himself later.

Fastposted

I'd agree somewhat if dj was ONLY inactive, but the fact that he first claims to be running out of time, while not even half of the day was passed, voting on what at that time looked to be an easy case, FOLLOWED by a period of inactiveness, that's what makes it really scummy. It looks like you was skimming, because you didn't pick that up.

You also do not seem happy with the progress we made so far, I disagree, off course we can't accurately pinpoint the whole mafia team on day 1, it's only natural we have selected more suspect than there are mafia, but at least most of us voiced our opinions and we have some pretty good cases that could be the building blocks for cases later on, when new forms of evidence can be used to back up what we have now. Eventually things will start to fall together. So you can't just dismiss the progress we made now as useless.

It's also quite funny that you think pretty much none of the current suspects is scum, so you think pretty much 100% of our speculations is wrong? That's highly unlikely don't you think?

Of course, it's impossible that they all are scum, especially if we'd choose to add you to the list for your previous post, although I don't think that one post has enough merit of its own. But do you really not agree just a little bit with any of them? Apperently you seem to only agree with what I (and probably more) see as the SK, and with me (which what I see as a weak case).

Fow now I'll just note it as strange.

@doom

Well, that does explain your behavior, however I have to agree wih rish here, you can't just never read any scenes because one moderator messed up once. Scenes are normally a good source of information, and mods don't always make mistakes.

It'd be very harmful if you'd continue to ignore mod posts.


@saf

I agree, while I think dj has a pretty solid case, even if he flips scum we will not gain much evidence for future cases, simply because he hasn't posted a lot, and there's almost no discussion from or about him to point us in any direction at all. Therefore it's not a very good day 1 lynch. Rish has seen much more action, and depending on the results could provide useful information.

[jonty125]

Since Jonty has put me at L-3

My vote is on zimmah.

[Djfireside]

Here's my thoughts...I give DJ a pass for now, I've learned that inactives on D1 don't really matter, and DJ can be quite a strong town later in the game, I think. And if we're really going inactives, Chuck and Greg should also be thrown in there. Iron B I don't really see as being scummy...I didn't really follow Doom's logic. Doom is being himself as far as I can tell...he always seems scummy, but I think he's an overexcited townie here. Sheep...I have no idea. Haven't played with him before. I could take him or leave him at this point. Jonty...I don't really see anything on him.
Fastposted

Thanks?!? The later days do tend to play more to my style so okay

I do tend to play along with the first day of inactiveness but it wasnt that I was not reading, I just found nothing to really jump in on. I was still around, not as much yesterday because of work but I know what I did hence the following

I'd agree somewhat if dj was ONLY inactive, but the fact that he first claims to be running out of time, while not even half of the day was passed, voting on what at that time looked to be an easy case, FOLLOWED by a period of inactiveness, that's what makes it really scummy. It looks like you was skimming, because you didn't pick that up.

Yes I have not posted alot or anything really meaningful I agree. Scummy eh based on first day but Ill give you the nod it is something.

Why did I go for the prod? In my eyes it appeared everyone was just waffling around and even if it put myself on the block I was hoping to get something going. I guess since my twins have come I have gotten alot more impatent but such is life. I played with enough stale first days that I think I started to dislike them So mine as well get out all my thoughts.

Zimmah - YOu have been jumping around but based on some of your fantic attempts to cover yourself I see some of the desperation of innocence. Im not giving you a pass and still believe there may be something there but I could see it both ways so I leave you be for now

Doom - You also have been a little jumpy in a silly way and it still seems as though you are up to something which is why I left the vote there instead of playing the simple unvote inactive check post. Im not talking about skimming or not reading or disappearing cause I can be accussed of similar things just simple dismissals and little digs here and there. Not enough to cover the rest of people but enough to leave me wondering in the days to come.

Saf-- Still here. Im among a few who have posted little but I dont think Im the worst one am I

aage - I saw what you were trying to do and sometimes the best tells come when someone is truly pissed at you.

I wont go through everything else but just go on to my points.

There appear to be a square here, Zimmah, Myself, Rish, and Sheep

I know me and I dealt with Zimmah so leaves Rish and Sheep

Overall I think that SHeep is scummy. The wafflle hitting and walking the fence is a easy day 1 little time manuver but just strikes me wrong. When the last vote on aage leads back to his whole debacil with Zimmah and IB but has no preface.

Rish seems to be hiding behind his I have a power and it will be great but will come in later. Im trying to figure at this point if I want to push him to at least get part of the information that they state they are willing to give but that they will not be able to give it until the end of the lynch date is a convinence.

SO my choice is between Rish and Sheep and Im going to push Rish to -2 to get some of the information and see what he has to say but dont count out sheep.

UNVOTE

Vote Rish

FP Jonty