NEED WE WORRY?

[reverend_kyle]

That is completely nuts. Really. Wow.

But the sad thing is that their message is almost identical to that of the christian right: "We will liberate Iraq"

That's not "the Christian right", that is BUSH. Lets not get it twisted.

And Hector, wake up. Yeah there are nut-jobs everywhere but lets see a christian program that depicts Jesus tossing hand grenades or using a machine gun at anyone and you'll have the Christian church in an uproar.

are you now not claiming bush?

[jay_a2j]

That is completely nuts. Really. Wow.

But the sad thing is that their message is almost identical to that of the christian right: "We will liberate Iraq"

That's not "the Christian right", that is BUSH. Lets not get it twisted.

And Hector, wake up. Yeah there are nut-jobs everywhere but lets see a christian program that depicts Jesus tossing hand grenades or using a machine gun at anyone and you'll have the Christian church in an uproar.

are you now not claiming bush?

When did I ever "claim Bush"?

[2dimes]

"love their nieghbor."

That was Jesus Himself who said that.

Nope I think he said neighbor.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he wasn't speaking English at all you nob-jockey, let alone American English

Well if you wish to nit pick and you go back to the origional greek, which the man that may have existed, might have spoken, if it is indeed a language, it may mean, "throw the jew down the well." provided there is a way to translate such a thing, into a language that exists in some form today or yesterday.

[s.xkitten]

People are so dumb sometimes...

seconded...

[DirtyDishSoap]

People are so dumb sometimes...

seconded...

thirded?

[jay_a2j]

Since we have gotten off-topic. Thoughts on this link.

[Stopper]

Since we have gotten off-topic. Thoughts on this link.

Seems to be more straightforward than the Mickey Mouse story.

An airport worker gets sacked for what amounts to unwarranted, threatening behaviour.

[mr. incrediball]

that mickey mouse thing is...

yarrr those scurvy dogs!

But to be honest it's just saying what all patriotic stuff is subliminally suggesting: make your country better than everyone else's

[MeDeFe]

People are so dumb sometimes...

seconded...

thirded?

quartered

[2dimes]

that mickey mouse thing is...

yarrr those scurvy dogs!

But to be honest it's just saying what all patriotic stuff is subliminally suggesting: make your country better than everyone else's by killing the infidels

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[OntJets09]

insane, that was just wow....gg

[Titanic]

"love their nieghbor."

That was Jesus Himself who said that.

Nope I think he said neighbor.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he wasn't speaking English at all you nob-jockey, let alone American English

Well if you wish to nit pick and you go back to the origional greek, which the man that may have existed, might have spoken, if it is indeed a language, it may mean, "throw the jew down the well." provided there is a way to translate such a thing, into a language that exists in some form today or yesterday.

Why would he speak Greek? More like Arabic probably.

Btw, you call him nit-picking? Your the one who corrected a spelling, wrongly btw. Its neighbour.

[chewyman]

"love their nieghbor."

That was Jesus Himself who said that.

Nope I think he said neighbor.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he wasn't speaking English at all you nob-jockey, let alone American English

Well if you wish to nit pick and you go back to the original Greek, which the man that may have existed, might have spoken, if it is indeed a language, it may mean, "throw the jew down the well." provided there is a way to translate such a thing, into a language that exists in some form today or yesterday.

Actually it was Aramaic. There is no disagreement amongst scholars that Jesus existed as this is supported both by followers and independent first hand sources such as Roman texts. While he may not necessarily have said an exact translation of those words the message is clearly the same. Ancient Greek definitely was a language, so was Aramaic, how you can think any otherwise despite all the thousands of texts found is beyond me. Translations are of a very high quality when translating from the earlier Greek texts (the New Testament was most likely written in Greek, which was, at the time, a language much like English is today). The only trouble translating such a well understood language is that some ideas do not perfectly match up in another language, this is rarely the case and certainly isn't as drastic as converting 'love thy neighbour' to 'throw the Jew down the well'.

Btw, you call him nit-picking? Your the one who corrected a spelling, wrongly btw. Its neighbour.

True, but we have to make exceptions for ignorant Americans

[Stopper]

There is no disagreement amongst scholars that Jesus existed as this is supported both by followers and independent first hand sources such as Roman texts.

I don't think so. Mind you, I'm not likely to follow this up with the fervour of Jesse, Bad Boy, who sadly, doesn't seem to be amongst us anymore.

[Stopper]

insane, that was just wow....gg

Good game?

[Guiscard]

There is no disagreement amongst scholars that Jesus existed as this is supported both by followers and independent first hand sources such as Roman texts.

Not quite... non-biblical sources can be fairly criticised, and there is a pretty large scholarly following which supports the view that you cannot prove Jesus' existence outright factually (although to me the historiography they use is a little too picky). Non of the non-biblical accounts are actually first-hand. All were written after his death. Jesse-badboy set out those arguments pretty successfully in another thread a little while back, but bugger me if I could find it now

That's by the by, really, as to me the weight of historical evidence does suggest some kind of healer named Jesus who was heralded by a section of the Jewish community as the messiah.

[Guiscard]

There is no disagreement amongst scholars that Jesus existed as this is supported both by followers and independent first hand sources such as Roman texts.

I don't think so. Mind you, I'm not likely to follow this up with the fervour of Jesse, Bad Boy, who sadly, doesn't seem to be amongst us anymore.

Great minds fast-post alike!

[Stopper]

Jesse-badboy

I miss him too.

[Guiscard]

Jesse-badboy

I miss him too.

Yeh where has he gone??? Was he moving to Oz or something?

[Stopper]

Yeh where has he gone??? Was he moving to Oz or something?

Well - there was that anarcho-capitalists-taking-over-an-American-state thing, but I did actually see him mention a job Down Under after that. But, that's the last I know. I mean, I haven't actually gone checking his profile or anything like that. 'Cos that'd just be weird.

[chewyman]

Fine, no serious historians that aren't crazy conspiracy theory nutters dispute Jesus' existence. The key sentence in that link being "This view has not found acceptance by the historical community."

[Guiscard]

Fine, no serious historians that aren't crazy conspiracy theory nutters dispute Jesus' existence. The key sentence in that link being "This view has not found acceptance by the historical community."

Yes but not for the reasons you stated. There are no definite first-hand texts, but historians (such as myself) have to weigh up the evidence for and against. There's a whole lot of maybes and ifs involved. The main non-gospel source was by Josephus written in 92/4AD... A generation after Jesus' death. If we're going with wikipedia (which, when it discusses things like 'is not accepted by the historical community etc. isn't terribly factual):

The extant copies of this work, which all derive from Christian sources, even the recently-recovered Arabic version, contain two passages about Jesus. The long one has come to be known as the Testimonium Flavianum. If genuine, it is the earliest record of Jesus in Jewish sources, and as such is sometimes cited as independent evidence for the historical existence of Jesus. However, most scholars view the Testimonium Flavianum as dubious - not only does the text read more continuously without it, but despite Josephus being a life long Jew, who portrayed Vespasian as the Messiah (Vespasian was Josephus' patron), the Testimonium Flavianum has Josephus state that Jesus was the Christ, foretold by the prophets, and a worker of wonders.

[got tonkaed]

hey guiscard...a little tangential anyway, but have you read From Jesus to Christianity...i cant think of the author off hand but i was curious if you had read it about some of your thoughts (it seemed like pretty decent scholarship, but that was one of the few books i have read on early christian church history)

Also if theres other good, fairly introductory books id probably be interested if you had some suggestions.

[Nobunaga]

... The Jihad Mickey has been pulled / canceled.

[luns101]

insane, that was just wow....gg

Good game?

I was asking the same thing.