GLG verdict

[greenoaks]

natty is spot on.

every time established teams create public games on their preferred maps/settings they are ranching.

the witch hunt was successful against glg, now it is time to expand it to all those teams on the first few pages of Game Finder.

[Johnny Rockets]

But that's exactly the answer. As I explained much earlier in this thread.

Ok but that's just kind of circular. Anyone can be convicted and then just said "it was gross abuse". There needs to be an explanation why it was "gross abuse", what exactly did they do that constitutes as "gross abuse". The concept of "gross abuse" has no meaning on its own.

There IS the explanation. I've posted it in this thread, and I'm far from the only one. You seem to be intentionally overlooking it. GLG was intentionally manipulating the scoring system. But that's far from it. He was also warned against doing so, and simply tried a new (yet EXCEPTIONALLY SIMILAR) method for it. He essentially took their warning about his manipulation and threw it back at them, laughing. This was not some out of the blue thing...he had plenty of opportunities to avoid it by simply having SOME of his games not be extraordinarily ranching. It wouldn't have taken much. He wouldn't do that.

It's not circular at all. As I said previously, the C&A mods have been exceptionally reticent about punishing anyone for this sort of behavior, but GLG's was so beyond the pale that they decided they needed to take action because of the severity of it.

"Manipulating the scoring system"? That's enough for a ban?

Ok, I guess we can just pretty much ban the first couple of pages of the scoreboard, then. If "manipulating the scoring system" is enough, then this is going to be an empty site pretty soon.

Also, how is it "manipulating the scoring system" when you ask someone to play a game, they agree, and you win? Isn't he getting those points exactly the way they're supposed to be got, within the boundaries of the CC scoring system?

Is there some kind of set percentage of games that need to be public? There are plenty of people who never play public games, and only play people of their choosing. The only difference is, they don't win as much, and they aren't the rank of conqueror. So why does this "rule" only apply to GLG?

Some people are butthurt because GLG is gaining points in a way they don't approve. But it's not GLG:s fault, it's the fault of a flawed scoring system, a flawed site interface, etc. that allows him to benefit from it. Punishing individual players is just a bandage solution, and this whole GLG thing is just a witch hunt.

LOL now your just being amusing,you seem to have a knack for over looking pieces of the puzzle you dont like,and ignoring the blatantly obvious.

Can you let me know where I can get some of that,it will help me at work I think.

natty's logically applying the reasons for GLG's ban consistently.

He's correct to point out that this is only a bandaid solution, the scoring system is flawed (which is a systemic and the main problem), GLG was involved in games which were voluntary and (not fraudulent), the "gross abuse" rule is applied arbitrarily, and that we should be concerned about the high level of discretion for such a rule because if all it takes is a loud minority to punish someone, then there will be more unjust punishments.

I agree the scoring system is flawed. I agree it needs an overhaul. But in this case he was repeatedly exploiting. I hope that this will spur some development of in both the clarification of the rules, and the scoring system. In The Mean Time: This fucking guy was purposefully fucking around, and eroding the credibility and enjoyment of the site for others. Yes he was involved in games which were voluntary, but for fucks sake!!! The guy KNEW he was on thin ice, and he KNEW the site didn't want this kind of exploitative bullshit going on. He STILL went out looking for ways to take advantage of others for his own game and the site had enough.
DO YOU SEE this kind of "persecution" being directed at ANYONE else???

No you don't. You're arguing "ethics" and ignoring practicality.

Your fear of the slippery slope should not prevent admin from bagging ass-hats until reforms are in place. Why? It's a private site. A dictatorship. You knew this when you joined, so fretting like greenoaks unrealistic fears that the leader board will be targeted for discipline is like saying my daughter will be arrested for eating potatoes because they deemed vodka illegal.

Do you really think the site benefits from a paper conqueror and a ranking system that holds no credibility?

JRockets

[Jdsizzleslice]

Wow... I'm sad to see this post not about Gen.LeeGettinhed anymore... but about people bickering.

[codeblue1018]

Wow... I'm sad to see this post not about Gen.LeeGettinhed anymore... but about people bickering.

Indeed JD. It has turned into GLGs miniature peanut gallery in a free state of rebellion. What is fact is GLG was warned, warned again, warned yet again, official warning and now a 1 month ban based soley on his quest to get precious, easy points. I'm not so sure what is hard to grasp regarding the sequence of events that led up to this spot on decision. Nonetheless, he's temporarily gone and hopefully now, things will change regarding his deliberate attempt to stalk, befriend and prevail over his opponents. Not sure about the majority of you guys, I say locker' down. Nothing more needs to be said.

[Jdsizzleslice]

Yeah, this really needs to be locked. All more that can be said is flames that have nothing pertinent to do with the topic.

[chang50]

Yeah, this really needs to be locked. All more that can be said is flames that have nothing pertinent to do with the topic.

you'd like that,guess you thought this was an open and shut case,nobody could possibly oppose this action??? Wrong,big miscalculation,there are lots of people out there who have a big problem with this.Ok this case is lost,but don't get too smug about it,this opens a Pandora's box of potential disputes,and grudge settling,I only wish the mods had took a stronger line and ignored the mob,but thats history now..

[Jdsizzleslice]

Yeah, this really needs to be locked. All more that can be said is flames that have nothing pertinent to do with the topic.

you'd like that,guess you thought this was an open and shut case,nobody could possibly oppose this action??? Wrong,big miscalculation,there are lots of people out there who have a big problem with this. Ok this case is lost,but don't get too smug about it,this opens a Pandora's box of potential disputes,and grudge settling,I only wish the mods had took a stronger line and ignored the mob,but that's history now..

I will respond to you exactly like I did natty dread. And natty dread didn't give me a response to this... I wonder why?

Yes, you all [who?] know he cheated. In fact you decided that from the onset. Too bad it seems to be impossible for any of you to come up with an explanation of what exactly he did that was "cheating".

Would you invite SGT's and under into a game where they have 0% chance at winning on a complex map? So far as of now, he had 2 losses on City Mogul, to QoH and Rds. The rest of the people had really never played the map, and even if they has played it, only once or twice. This is ranching, coward like, and inexcusable. And the right accusation was given when he was warned.

But then, he had to stoop so low as to try and get other players who never really new the map to create the game so it would, in his eyes, technically not be violating what he was warned for... Lol. That was definitely wrong. If you would like to take me for example, I rarely invite people below under lieutenant to be AGAINST me in a game, 1v1 or Quad. I always find a public game and join it, or create my own public game and have other people join. If he would have created public games, this topic would not even exist, because anyone can join public games. Problem is he is doing this willfully, and creating private games.

He has been given a warning, then a 30 day ban. HE will more than likely foe everyone on the top 600 or major above on the scoreboard, so NO SKILLED PERSON can join his game... Lol, I laugh because he has me foed and we have never played a game.

That is the explanation.

Rules:

Cheaters and troublemakers detract from the gaming experience of all Conquer Club players, and proactive measures are employed to protect our membership. Conquer Club reserves the right to suspend accounts and cancel Premium Memberships, with or without warning, of those players who are deemed to have violated the rules.

Unwritten Rules:

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

[greenoaks]

glg was warned about his tactics to get precious points. a warning could also be given to every established team in the first 5 pages of Game Finder.

those games are not filled by established teams, they are filled by low rankers who have know idea how to play team games.

ranching.

[Jdsizzleslice]

glg was warned about his tactics to get precious points. a warning could also be given to every established team in the first 5 pages of Game Finder.

those games are not filled by established teams, they are filled by low rankers who have know idea how to play team games.

ranching.

No... Because anyone has the option to join. I could go join those games and would it then be considered ranching?

[chang50]

,

Yeah, this really needs to be locked. All more that can be said is flames that have nothing pertinent to do with the topic.

you'd like that,guess you thought this was an open and shut case,nobody could possibly oppose this action??? Wrong,big miscalculation,there are lots of people out there who have a big problem with this. Ok this case is lost,but don't get too smug about it,this opens a Pandora's box of potential disputes,and grudge settling,I only wish the mods had took a stronger line and ignored the mob,but that's history now..

I will respond to you exactly like I did natty dread. And natty dread didn't give me a response to this... I wonder why?

Yes, you all [who?] know he cheated. In fact you decided that from the onset. Too bad it seems to be impossible for any of you to come up with an explanation of what exactly he did that was "cheating".

Would you invite SGT's and under into a game where they have 0% chance at winning on a complex map? So far as of now, he had 2 losses on City Mogul, to QoH and Rds. The rest of the people had really never played the map, and even if they has played it, only once or twice. This is ranching, coward like, and inexcusable. And the right accusation was given when he was warned.

But then, he had to stoop so low as to try and get other players who never really new the map to create the game so it would, in his eyes, technically not be violating what he was warned for... Lol. That was definitely wrong. If you would like to take me for example, I rarely invite people below under lieutenant to be AGAINST me in a game, 1v1 or Quad. I always find a public game and join it, or create my own public game and have other people join. If he would have created public games, this topic would not even exist, because anyone can join public games. Problem is he is doing this willfully, and creating private games.

He has been given a warning, then a 30 day ban. HE will more than likely foe everyone on the top 600 or major above on the scoreboard, so NO SKILLED PERSON can join his game... Lol, I laugh because he has me foed and we have never played a game.

That is the explanation.

Rules:

Cheaters and troublemakers detract from the gaming experience of all Conquer Club players, and proactive measures are employed to protect our membership. Conquer Club reserves the right to suspend accounts and cancel Premium Memberships, with or without warning, of those players who are deemed to have violated the rules.

Unwritten Rules:

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

I saw your lame response and whilst I would'nt presume to speak for Natty here I don't think it in any way addresses my concerns outlined in earlier posts.For that reason it is irrelevant..,and might explain why it has been ignored at least by me.

[Woodruff]

I don't want to get involved in the GLG issue but I do want to again voice my opinion that the Rules section is opaque and should be more clearly defined.

I agree:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=171522

[GoranZ]

lol you really have serous problems with your definicions of fair play...

1. I make public games, not private.

Yes, yes, it is very convenient for you that you get to define cheating by your own terms. You just say "as long as I make public games, I'm not cheating". But GLG can also say "as long as I don't invite people, I'm not cheating". The question is, why is he guilty of gross abuse, and you aren't?

2. Eveyone can join games I make, players that know the map, players that do not, experts on it... literaly everyone, including you or GLG(its not my problem that you or GLG are afraid )

Yes, and no one has to join GLG:s games. But the fact is, that people join GLG:s games. The fact also is, that noobs who have no clue join your triples games. There's really no difference - it's just that you've chosen to draw an arbitrary line which conveniently leaves you on the non-cheater side. This way you get to keep hoarding your easy points, and you also get the satisfaction of pointing fingers at others and feeling moral superiority... it's really quite dishonest, but I guess it's ok since so many others do it too.

Once again... IF YOU ARE NOT AFRAID to join the games I create you can join them, any time you want without any restrictions. You can chose your own teammates(GLG for example). If your team wins I will congratulate you, if my team wins I will give you an option for rematch...
But if you are afraid I promise that I will progress slowly so you wont shit in your pants

[chang50]

lol you really have serous problems with your definicions of fair play...

1. I make public games, not private.

Yes, yes, it is very convenient for you that you get to define cheating by your own terms. You just say "as long as I make public games, I'm not cheating". But GLG can also say "as long as I don't invite people, I'm not cheating". The question is, why is he guilty of gross abuse, and you aren't?

2. Eveyone can join games I make, players that know the map, players that do not, experts on it... literaly everyone, including you or GLG(its not my problem that you or GLG are afraid )

Yes, and no one has to join GLG:s games. But the fact is, that people join GLG:s games. The fact also is, that noobs who have no clue join your triples games. There's really no difference - it's just that you've chosen to draw an arbitrary line which conveniently leaves you on the non-cheater side. This way you get to keep hoarding your easy points, and you also get the satisfaction of pointing fingers at others and feeling moral superiority... it's really quite dishonest, but I guess it's ok since so many others do it too.

Once again... IF YOU ARE NOT AFRAID to join the games I create you can join them, any time you want without any restrictions. You can chose your own teammates(GLG for example). If your team wins I will congratulate you, if my team wins I will give you an option for rematch...
But if you are afraid I promise that I will progress slowly so you wont shit in your pants

I agree with Natty your style can just as easily be interpreted as gross abuse as glg's,and believe it or,not Im not scared of you big tough man on the internet...

[GoranZ]

I agree with Natty your style can just as easily be interpreted as gross abuse as glg's,and believe it or,not Im not scared of you big tough man on the internet...

Perfect you, natty and glg can create triples team, unless someone of you tхree doesn't turn into a chicken.

P.S. If you think or know that I have violated some of the rules you can report me in Cheating & Abuse Reports section and the mods can take it from there.

[natty dread]

lol you really have serous problems with your definicions of fair play...

1. I make public games, not private.

Yes, yes, it is very convenient for you that you get to define cheating by your own terms. You just say "as long as I make public games, I'm not cheating". But GLG can also say "as long as I don't invite people, I'm not cheating". The question is, why is he guilty of gross abuse, and you aren't?

2. Eveyone can join games I make, players that know the map, players that do not, experts on it... literaly everyone, including you or GLG(its not my problem that you or GLG are afraid )

Yes, and no one has to join GLG:s games. But the fact is, that people join GLG:s games. The fact also is, that noobs who have no clue join your triples games. There's really no difference - it's just that you've chosen to draw an arbitrary line which conveniently leaves you on the non-cheater side. This way you get to keep hoarding your easy points, and you also get the satisfaction of pointing fingers at others and feeling moral superiority... it's really quite dishonest, but I guess it's ok since so many others do it too.

Once again... IF YOU ARE NOT AFRAID to join the games I create you can join them, any time you want without any restrictions. You can chose your own teammates(GLG for example). If your team wins I will congratulate you, if my team wins I will give you an option for rematch...
But if you are afraid I promise that I will progress slowly so you wont shit in your pants

Measuring dicks now, are we? Mine is 20cm.

What you're doing is, you're drawing arbitrary lines in the sand, and loudly proclaiming "this is not cheating, that is cheating" while pointing on the other side of the line. You can argue all you want that your games are public and anyone can theoretically join them, but we all know that in practice, almost all of the games are joined by noobs who have no idea how to play triples.

So what is actually happening here is, you and GLG are basically doing the same thing, you're just mad at him because he does it better than you.

[chang50]

I agree with Natty your style can just as easily be interpreted as gross abuse as glg's,and believe it or,not Im not scared of you big tough man on the internet...

Perfect you, natty and glg can create triples team, unless someone of you tхree doesn't turn into a chicken.

P.S. If you think or know that I have violated some of the rules you can report me in Cheating & Abuse Reports section and the mods can take it from there.

The point is not that you have violated any rules,but that once you allow some catchall gross abuse ruling where does it end,has glg really done anything worse than hundreds of others?
I'm really not interested in your proposed pathetic pissing contest,internet hard men don't count for much in the real world,you could win 10 out of 10 and prove nothing.

[WILLIAMS5232]

i see the point about the quad manual freestyle games set up on das shloss ( or similiar ) that are no fun and just sit there like a mouse trap.....i agree those are farming games. but don't think it is as severe.

there's just something about someone creating hundreds of games ( or having someone create ) and inviting regular players that can be assured they will lose because they are unaware of how little of a chance they have. i know i'ts thier fault for not caring as much, but it's the repeated abuse of this circumstance that has everyone so hot about it. to think this ruling is the first step towards a socialist conquer club that will have the C&A mods walk around with cattle prods watching each and every game making sure that you are not playing a game with a low ranked player is crazy talk. that won't happen and you know it.

i've noticed goranz's first 3 pages of games all have more or less evenely paired teams. i didn't check back further than that. there's really no need to. if he was a farmer, he's obviously closed down shop...

i still agree that it ( glg ban ) needed to happen. we all can agree that a scoring change would be good. but it's just something that is not going to happen, or either very far down the road.

to say that conquer club points are meaningless is true. glg doesn't go to walmart and give autographs to all the kids because he was the conquerer. no one outside of this site really cares. i don't go to work bragging how many points i won in my last game. i'd get laughed at because i don't work with dorks such as myself. but how many of us would play without them.... i'd bet very few,

allowing someone to continue manipulating whatever rules that are in place to make this a one player site for himself does more harm than good. i think most everyone feels that his methods were a bit under the belt no matter how fair/unfair you think the ruling is.

regardless, the farther you push the line towards the mob, the fainter it gets. this was a unique case, because almost anywhere you do decide to draw the line, it was over it.

[Woodruff]

Measuring dicks now, are we? Mine is 20cm.

You Europeans and your weird, socialistic, magic measuring terms!

[Woodruff]

The point is not that you have violated any rules,but that once you allow some catchall gross abuse ruling where does it end,has glg really done anything worse than hundreds of others?

In my opinion, it really is, yes.

[Jdsizzleslice]

,

Yeah, this really needs to be locked. All more that can be said is flames that have nothing pertinent to do with the topic.

you'd like that,guess you thought this was an open and shut case,nobody could possibly oppose this action??? Wrong,big miscalculation,there are lots of people out there who have a big problem with this. Ok this case is lost,but don't get too smug about it,this opens a Pandora's box of potential disputes,and grudge settling,I only wish the mods had took a stronger line and ignored the mob,but that's history now..

I will respond to you exactly like I did natty dread. And natty dread didn't give me a response to this... I wonder why?

Yes, you all [who?] know he cheated. In fact you decided that from the onset. Too bad it seems to be impossible for any of you to come up with an explanation of what exactly he did that was "cheating".

Would you invite SGT's and under into a game where they have 0% chance at winning on a complex map? So far as of now, he had 2 losses on City Mogul, to QoH and Rds. The rest of the people had really never played the map, and even if they has played it, only once or twice. This is ranching, coward like, and inexcusable. And the right accusation was given when he was warned.

But then, he had to stoop so low as to try and get other players who never really new the map to create the game so it would, in his eyes, technically not be violating what he was warned for... Lol. That was definitely wrong. If you would like to take me for example, I rarely invite people below under lieutenant to be AGAINST me in a game, 1v1 or Quad. I always find a public game and join it, or create my own public game and have other people join. If he would have created public games, this topic would not even exist, because anyone can join public games. Problem is he is doing this willfully, and creating private games.

He has been given a warning, then a 30 day ban. HE will more than likely foe everyone on the top 600 or major above on the scoreboard, so NO SKILLED PERSON can join his game... Lol, I laugh because he has me foed and we have never played a game.

That is the explanation.

Rules:

Cheaters and troublemakers detract from the gaming experience of all Conquer Club players, and proactive measures are employed to protect our membership. Conquer Club reserves the right to suspend accounts and cancel Premium Memberships, with or without warning, of those players who are deemed to have violated the rules.

Unwritten Rules:

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

I saw your lame response and whilst I wouldn't presume to speak for Natty here I don't think it in any way addresses my concerns outlined in earlier posts.For that reason it is irrelevant..,and might explain why it has been ignored at least by me.

Lol, what a valid comeback, saying it's lame in irrelevant. That's only because you don't have anything to disprove what I have said.

[GoranZ]

Measuring dicks now, are we? Mine is 20cm.

On what multiplier is your measuring machine set to? *I hope its not 10 or more

What you're doing is, you're drawing arbitrary lines in the sand, and loudly proclaiming "this is not cheating, that is cheating" while pointing on the other side of the line.

Actually you are doing this... the verdict on GLG is official and you are trying to portrait it as wrong. The lines are drawn in the sand, I see them but you want to change them.

You can argue all you want that your games are public and anyone can theoretically join them, but we all know that in practice, almost all of the games are joined by noobs who have no idea how to play triples.

Have you seen your own games? If mine are suspicion then yours are illegal ... luckily for you mine are not suspicious to the mods.

So what is actually happening here is, you and GLG are basically doing the same thing, you're just mad at him because he does it better than you.

1. You are mixing something here, I will point out what: "GLG is convicted cheater, I'm not even charged with something" but if you think that I do something wrong make one report here Cheating & Abuse Reports
2. I agree with you that I cant compete with GLG in some aspects of the game... He has a habit to cheat

The point is not that you have violated any rules,but that once you allow some catchall gross abuse ruling where does it end

Why thinking about a problem that hasn't appeared yet?

has glg really done anything worse than hundreds of others?

obviously yes, not only for me but also for the mods.

I'm really not interested in your proposed pathetic pissing contest,internet hard men don't count for much in the real world,you could win 10 out of 10 and prove nothing.

I don't need to win a single one, I don't even need to participate ... I already proven that you only talk but your words are empty, meaningless, because you cant back them up with adequate actions.

[TeeGee]

I think this topic has gone its full measure and then a little bit more,

LOCKED