Too many Items Mafia (4/14) Endgame: I Confess

[spiesr]

well, 'm not sure about spiesr, i don't personally think he's bad but he could be. i'd like to know more about how he got the walkytalky though, but i doubt it's going to help us.

I don't really know how I got it myself. I am not sure why some of you find me having received it to be suspicious. We know that there are/were two walkie talkies in the game. According to Yomiel, Neb intended to pass his off to someone else the night he was killed. And Yomiel's one disappeared that same night. I guess we don't know if Neb was able to give it away before his death or not. Since we haven't seen any evidence of the item a person had at their death being noted, we don't really even know what happens to the item a person has when they die. We also don't know what exactly happened to Yomiel's one when it disappeared.
I was informed that I received a walkie talkie upon the start of this day phase. I don't know where it came from or if anyone even has the other one. I figured I would share that much becuase it could potentially be helpful for us to know that at least one of the walkie talkies still exists.

I can postpone the game until i find some? if wanted.

Depending on how long it takes, a deadline extension may be sufficient.

[Yomiel]

Mine disappeared the previous Night, so it seems weird you would have gotten one THIS Night. It also doesn't make sense that you got one but weren't told about someone holding the other...

[zimmah]

well, 'm not sure about spiesr, i don't personally think he's bad but he could be. i'd like to know more about how he got the walkytalky though, but i doubt it's going to help us.

I don't really know how I got it myself. I am not sure why some of you find me having received it to be suspicious. We know that there are/were two walkie talkies in the game. According to Yomiel, Neb intended to pass his off to someone else the night he was killed. And Yomiel's one disappeared that same night. I guess we don't know if Neb was able to give it away before his death or not. Since we haven't seen any evidence of the item a person had at their death being noted, we don't really even know what happens to the item a person has when they die. We also don't know what exactly happened to Yomiel's one when it disappeared.
I was informed that I received a walkie talkie upon the start of this day phase. I don't know where it came from or if anyone even has the other one. I figured I would share that much becuase it could potentially be helpful for us to know that at least one of the walkie talkies still exists.

I can postpone the game until i find some? if wanted.

Depending on how long it takes, a deadline extension may be sufficient.

seems legit. but after all this, we still know nothing.

[Yomiel]

Well, I was right about Vodean, so I'll just go with my gut a second time.

Vote: Spiesr

[spiesr]

Well, I was right about Vodean, so I'll just go with my gut a second time.

Vote: Spiesr

Can you elaborate on why you feel I may be scum?
I see you had made this post:

My suspicions are on Iron and Spiesr right now. Iron was suddenly very defensive and dismissive, and Spiesr's story strikes me as odd, with all the strangeness surrounding the walkie-talkies on Day 2.

Although when you made it, "my story" consisted entirely of this:

Also, I have one of the walkie talkies now

[Yomiel]

I just don't think that is believable. Mine suddenly vanished, and it does not seem as though you stole it. And Neb's was quite possibly destroyed when he died. Either way, the items vanished the previous Night, so that is when you should have gotten them.

[Yomiel]

And then there is the fact that you were not told you have anyone to talk with.

[spiesr]

I just don't think that is believable. Mine suddenly vanished, and it does not seem as though you stole it. And Neb's was quite possibly destroyed when he died. Either way, the items vanished the previous Night, so that is when you should have gotten them.

We don't know all (or really any) of the mechanics behind how the items were moved around. I see no reason to assume that I would have had to get the item the same time it left it's original owner. I don't know if anyone else had it in the intervening time or not.

And then there is the fact that you were not told you have anyone to talk with.

Err, that's not exactly what I meant. I was told I could use it to talk. However, I have not yet been able to confirm it the other end is actually held by anyone at the moment, or if it is lost and I am talking to thin air.

[Yomiel]

I know how the walkie-talkies are supposed to work. You should have gotten it last Night if it were normal. No one else is claiming to have gotten the item. It is possible one of the Mafia somehow stole it from me, but since they wouldn't be able to choose who the other one got passed to, it's not too likely a Mafia had both.

[zimmah]

yomiel, I am not really sure what you're trying to say.

if you're trying to say he stole it from you, i don't beleive you.

[Yomiel]

I'm saying I think he's lying about having the item.

[spiesr]

I know how the walkie-talkies are supposed to work. You should have gotten it last Night if it were normal. No one else is claiming to have gotten the item. It is possible one of the Mafia somehow stole it from me, but since they wouldn't be able to choose who the other one got passed to, it's not too likely a Mafia had both.

Well, lets see. There are a few ways that I could have got such an item. Someone could have had it and then passed it to me last night. Or the item that disappeared from you (or maybe Neb had when he died) could somehow have recirculated back into the game.

I'm saying I think he's lying about having the item.

Why would I do that? What possible benefit would there be for me to lie about having that item?

[Iron Butterfly]

I'm saying I think he's lying about having the item.

If you yourself state that the item was useless because it had to many restrictions why would someone lie about having it?

[Yomiel]

I don't pretend to know. But one thing I do know-if Spiesr were telling the truth, he'd have gotten in trouble. One of the reasons why the item is useless is because we can't clearly reveal we have it. We could find subtle ways to hint at it to try and figure out who has the other one, but we can't just say we have it. That's against the rules of the item.

[Iron Butterfly]

I don't pretend to know. But one thing I do know-if Spiesr were telling the truth, he'd have gotten in trouble. One of the reasons why the item is useless is because we can't clearly reveal we have it. We could find subtle ways to hint at it to try and figure out who has the other one, but we can't just say we have it. That's against the rules of the item.

If don't know why he would lie and don't pretend to know why he would lie how can you accuse him of lieing about having it?

Your belief that he would get into trouble using it has nothing to do with weather he is telling the truth about having it as they are two separate issues. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

[spiesr]

I don't pretend to know. But one thing I do know-if Spiesr were telling the truth, he'd have gotten in trouble. One of the reasons why the item is useless is because we can't clearly reveal we have it. We could find subtle ways to hint at it to try and figure out who has the other one, but we can't just say we have it. That's against the rules of the item.

I was not informed of this. Then again, I wasn't told about the restrictions that you mentioned before until I specifically asked, so I guess we will just have to see if I survive until the next vote count or whatever.
Now, I have to wonder why you didn't mention this sooner. I mean If that really is the basis of your belief on this thing it seems like it would have been one of the first things you would bring up. Interestingly enough this seems to be in contradiction with your previous post:

I know how the walkie-talkies are supposed to work. You should have gotten it last Night if it were normal. No one else is claiming to have gotten the item. It is possible one of the Mafia somehow stole it from me, but since they wouldn't be able to choose who the other one got passed to, it's not too likely a Mafia had both.

Now why would you bring up nobody else having claimed the item if you knew that they were not allowed to? It almost seems like your just making up new things to throw against me for having claimed to now have the a walkie talkie. I can't see why you would do that though.

[Yomiel]

That he doesn't know the rules of his item suggests that he doesn't have it.

If they had the item and lost it in some way, allowing you to get it, then they should be able to say something, just like I was able to once I lost mine.

[spiesr]

If they had the item and lost it in some way, allowing you to get it, then they should be able to say something, just like I was able to once I lost mine.

As I said before, we don't know for sure the route the item took from the point where you or Neb had it to me now having it. It may or may not have passed through the hands of another player for the Day 2/Night 2 period. We can't even say for sure that another player didn't pass it to me yet. The day phase has been going for like a day and a half, and a third or so of the living players haven't posted at all yet. And of those who have posted, maybe two of those have posted recently enough to know that you want to claim it for that period.
If you are going base a decision off of the absence of someone claiming something, you need to make sure that everyone is aware that said thing needs to be claimed and has been given a chance to do so.
Anyway, I don't know about you, but I am tired of arguing about this. And I am sure everyone else is/will be tired of reading about it. So, I am done with this issue. It wasn't that important of a thing in the first place. My "defense" has been adequate (all of this in my opinion of course) and your "case" seems to be more you being stubborn at this point than any real logic. If anybody else actually wants to pursue your line of reasoning here they can let me know and I will attempt to address their concerns at the time. Until that happens you can believe what you want. Let's find something worthwhile to talk about.

[Yomiel]

My vote will be staying on you. It was awfully suspicious of you to claim you had a walkie-talkie, especially since you're not supposed to be able to do so. Throw in how weird you were about it, and I think it's worth being suspicious over.

[pershy]

Guys - I think we're placing too much emphasis on the walkie talkie - and my gut feeling is that whoever has it is probably town and that they move around between the players. I'm not sure, but I don't think it's that relevant. I might as well tell you that I got Neb's when he died and was able to communicate IB which was great cause I was able to clear him as town. He told me he had been silenced but was still able to participate in the thread. He FOSed Vodean and was sure Vode was scum. I agreed. I don't know if walkie talkies get stolen, but I don't think so - I think the mod passes them around...although there may be a gretaer significance to this.

Last night I checked out Epitaph1.

He has no item, so I am inclined to think he is town too. I suspected him before, but am sure he would have a suspicious item if he was scum, even a goon.

Apart from that I don't know where to go. I did suspect Spiesr before but not really anymore. I think Epi is cleared and believe Yomiel is town. I think we should go back and look at voting patterns to get clues rather than concentrate too much on walkie talkies etc. I would like to know what other items are out there - so far I haven't found out about any other items.

I think I'll go back a look at the thread and see if there are any other clues to be seen, cause as I say...am at a bit of a loss. Maybe we can find evidence of someone protecting Vodean. Was so long ago I can't remember.

Which reminds me - that is a good point about night taking sooo long - maybe the mafia didn't get their action in for days, or at all - which does make me think of Daz. Anyway I know for a fact that he is and is gonna be inactive (I took over as mod in his mafia game cause he is absent from CC at the moment) so we might as well find out and vote him off the game anyway I guess.

vote Dazza

[zimmah]

If they had the item and lost it in some way, allowing you to get it, then they should be able to say something, just like I was able to once I lost mine.

As I said before, we don't know for sure the route the item took from the point where you or Neb had it to me now having it. It may or may not have passed through the hands of another player for the Day 2/Night 2 period. We can't even say for sure that another player didn't pass it to me yet. The day phase has been going for like a day and a half, and a third or so of the living players haven't posted at all yet. And of those who have posted, maybe two of those have posted recently enough to know that you want to claim it for that period.
If you are going base a decision off of the absence of someone claiming something, you need to make sure that everyone is aware that said thing needs to be claimed and has been given a chance to do so.
Anyway, I don't know about you, but I am tired of arguing about this. And I am sure everyone else is/will be tired of reading about it. So, I am done with this issue. It wasn't that important of a thing in the first place. My "defense" has been adequate (all of this in my opinion of course) and your "case" seems to be more you being stubborn at this point than any real logic. If anybody else actually wants to pursue your line of reasoning here they can let me know and I will attempt to address their concerns at the time. Until that happens you can believe what you want. Let's find something worthwhile to talk about.

i have only one question for you and you don't have to answer it but it would help if you did.

what is your opinion on the other players?

[Iron Butterfly]

If the cat is out of the bag then so be it. I had the other the other walkie talkie yesterday.

Contrary to what Yomiel states there where not many restrictions on its use and it was extremely valuable. Yes you could not out and out tell the other person who you were BUT the mod gave you lots of leeway in what you could say to each other. Pershy and I were eventually able to figure out who the other person was.

Yesterday someone was able to silence me in what I suspect was an attempt to set me up.

How did I get the walkie talkie? I was informed by the mod that I had received a walkie talkie and was told "speak into it"
In the beggining I was leery as I had no idea to whom I would be speaking as it could easily be mafia or Town. I told them that I had been silenced and that I had my suspicions.

We were only able to use the walkie talkie for one day and contrary to what Yomiel states the Mod told us that ONE of us had to give up our half. We decided that Pershy would keep his half. I did not tell him who I gave it to...LOL but we had a code word I would use.

I gave it to Spiesr because after Vodean we felt he was scummiest.

I find it interesting that Hippo was able to point out several different inconsitancies with how Yumiel lost his half of the walkie talkie. From my experience the WT did not mysteriously disappear. I was given a choice of who to give it to. I still do not know why Yumiel would say Spiesr was lieing about having it unless he beleived he gave it away to someone else perhaps? Just WIFOM on my part but I believe Yomiel is fibbing about how he got rid of it/lost it.

[Yomiel]

And you all said we were focusing too much on the walkie-talkie. I'm calling it here and now-Iron and Spiesr are definitely Mafia.

We all agree Iron was acting really weirdly when I mentioned that thing about role-blocking. But this pretty much confirms it. One suspicious player backing up another suspicious player's claim? That's pretty convenient, wouldn't you say? On top of that, she's lying about the restrictions. The host gave pretty much NO leeway on what you could say. If you were even remotely trying to give away your identity or role, she would blur it out. Also, she twists what I say, since I actually clearly said only ONE person had to give their half up. She's trying to make me look like Mafia. Also, no inconsistencies were pointed out.

And finally, dear Iron, you did yourself in by skimming. Everyone, you CAN'T decide who you give the walkie-talkie too. You can ONLY decide which of the two people that have it will be giving theirs up. Proof that Iron is lying.

Unvote: Spiest
Vote: Iron

[Iron Butterfly]

Pershy has already stated we were masoned yesterday so Spiesr could not have had it. Spiesr come forward with the information voluntarily at the beginning of the day. What makes the walkie talkies an important and useful tool is that they can be use during the day. I have stated I gave it to Spiesr.

Pershy and I spoke in debth about Vodeans guilt and Pershy voted for Vodean while I was silenced. Mafia would not vote the Mafia Godfather.

"And finally, dear Iron, you did yourself in by skimming. Everyone, you CAN'T decide who you give the walkie-talkie too. You can ONLY decide which of the two people that have it will be giving theirs up. Proof that Iron is lying."

How would you know this if you didnt use it? You would not know the interaction between the mod unless you had to give it away.

Your logic makes no sense...not like it ever has.

[zimmah]

well pretty much either yomiel or iron is lying.