Rolegift Mafia 2 Endgame: Give 'til it Hurts

[everywhere116]

/: To what extent can we discuss the gifts? Can we say what they are like last time, or can we only claim the ability?

Yomiel: Depending on the answer above, can you give any indication over whether you believe based on the item you were given that your investigation would be reliable or not?

[jak111]

As I said earlier the investigation is either insane, mafia trying to go after a townie, possible busdriven, and as someone else pointed out paranoid. In a game with no "real cop you don't only investigate one person especially when the gift was "given" and there is no telling what it does. To use it after the first night is just plain stupid because there is no way of knowing if Yomiel if that is her real name can even be trusted in this game and made just an honest stupid mistake or is honing in on trying to lynch a townie that actually did NOT vote on the now lynched townie yesterday because I wanted everyone to figure out who has what gift so we don't kill off a potential good townie gifter. From what has been said, I am still not 100% sure what my gift is and maintain this is just plain stupid to lynch without figuring out gifts. It is also possible one of the gifts was a cpr doctor to cause the second death.

You don't want to start playing the game of who gave what to whom on day 2. That should be saved until day 3 or 4 because even when you don't lynch the good gifter, they wind up getting boned because of sheeple that want to follow a bogus report that doesn't even have a 2nd person test against.

Finally even though I am saying OMGUS at Yomiel, I didn't actually vote her because I'm more inclined to believe that the gift is just insane or paranoid. I do think she is quite ignorant for just randomly going out there with that instead of at least waiting til there was a second person that received a cop gift and use it to help determine sanity instead of rushing off to use it like it will go away. The tracker gift seems a better one to use as scum hunting instead of hinging on a random cop investigation. Sure state what you found out during the day time, but until enough evidence gathers there shouldn't be votes on just that until we determine the sanity of a person. I do FOS Jonty and Chuck for trying to quickly form a bandwagon and failing to think for themselves and in fact will be Voting Chuck for trying to get an easy bandwagon lynch going while jonty has shown in past games just to be a numbskull that vote hops and fails to think for himself.

Just because of what had been said in this post, I will Vote LSU. Calling someone a "numb-skull" for voting you. GUESS WHAT MATE! You're a guilty result atm, and that puts you on the chopping block. But, I would consider other things that may or may not have happened, however with your response to people and you using WIFOM to hide behind, you are painting a huge BS target on your head. The type of target that says "I'm going to throw out all logical thinking because I've been caught in a guilty case. I'm going to call people things because they wish to test it out even when no one else is able to clear me". My vote is on you for the rest of the day bud. A claimed cop got a guilty on you, time to see if the gifter should stop sending it if it's paranoid... (Oh, here's a huge WIFOM, what if mafia gifted paranoid cops.. I'd rage quit lol).

To answer Rodion, my other gift wasn't an investigative role. (Nor was it busdriver or anything that can change outcomes)

I think we should test the sanity here for the gifters sake and because LSU's last post was hugely overly defensive.

[/]

/: To what extent can we discuss the gifts? Can we say what they are like last time, or can we only claim the ability?

You may say anything you want about the gift, as long as it's not used to "prove" you have the gift.
So nothing like: "Don't believe player A has the anti-scurvy crate of oranges! I have it, because as the last person knows, the oranges are described as having an unusually flowery scent."

Vote Count:

thechuck51 (1) - LSU Tiger Josh
LSU Tiger Josh (4) - thechuck51 , Yomiel , jak111 , jonty125

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch

[Rodion]

Hider: box of candies
Doubler: large piece of fabric

[LSU Tiger Josh]

I believe we have some lynch happy mafia going after me. On the votes of the now CONFIRMED townie vodean they were 4 of the last 5 votes trying to force a lynch without even considering the possibility that he had a decent gift for town. I doubt all 4 of them are mafia but I would bet at least one but probably two of them are scumbags in which case I applaud their efforts to force another bad lynch for the second straight day instead of figuring out sanities and who has what gift.

[Yomiel]

Nope, no idea how accurate my result is. But there's really nothing else to do but kill him, either to stop the Mafia or learn that the gift doesn't work right.

I'm confused by what the host said, though.

And my instincts told me Vodean was Mafia. And he was. Just not in this game.>_>

[jak111]

I believe we have some lynch happy mafia going after me. On the votes of the now CONFIRMED townie vodean they were 4 of the last 5 votes trying to force a lynch without even considering the possibility that he had a decent gift for town. I doubt all 4 of them are mafia but I would bet at least one but probably two of them are scumbags in which case I applaud their efforts to force another bad lynch for the second straight day instead of figuring out sanities and who has what gift.

Yea. Nice defense there LSU. Any other blatant "He's mafia because he was voting a guy yesterday, and voting me today after I had a guilty result on me" claims?

[Campin_Killer]

The way I see it, we can't really question Yomiel right now, however, if LSU turns out to be town, it'd be a safe bet to lynch Yomiel Day 3.

I still want to hear from shield and PCM first, though

[thechuck51]

The way I see it, we can't really question Yomiel right now, however, if LSU turns out to be town, it'd be a safe bet to lynch Yomiel Day 3.

I still want to hear from shield and PCM first, though

If yomiel recieved a cop gift that was insane/paranoid (and she didnt know) it wouldn't be her fault though

[jak111]

The way I see it, we can't really question Yomiel right now, however, if LSU turns out to be town, it'd be a safe bet to lynch Yomiel Day 3.

I still want to hear from shield and PCM first, though

If you proceed to try that, I will proceed to vote you tomorrow. Irrational thinking AND time stalling is all over your post.

[pancakemix]

Last night I got a cop gift. Jak flipped town. I also got a doc gift.

[spiesr]

Also, I received a roleblock gift. I am guessing it was from aage.

Could you tell us who you blocked before the day phase ends?

As I said earlier the investigation is either insane,

Possible, no way to tell until someone that the investigation was used on is dead.

mafia trying to go after a townie,

If it were anyone else but Yomiel I would say there isn't a reasonable chance of this being the case. However, with his stunt in CYOC fresh enough in my mind I have to say that I can't even rule out him being a townie and lying about this just because.

possible busdriven,

If the hypothetical busdriver is anyone other than aage or safariguy then there are now in a situation where they need to reveal this right now or they will eventually (like probably tomorrow) be exposed and lynched. In that case, I call it a fair trade.

and as someone else pointed out paranoid.

Once again, no way to tell until somebody is dead.

To use it after the first night is just plain stupid because there is no way of knowing if Yomiel if that is her real name can even be trusted in this game and made just an honest stupid mistake or is honing in on trying to lynch a townie that actually did NOT vote on the now lynched townie yesterday because I wanted everyone to figure out who has what gift so we don't kill off a potential good townie gifter. From what has been said, I am still not 100% sure what my gift is and maintain this is just plain stupid to lynch without figuring out gifts.

While there is a possibility that the investigation is not sane/correct or that Yomiel is foolish enough to try to lie about it, at this point in time based on our information I gauge the chances of it being correct to be high enough that you are the best target. You are entitled to your own opinion of course. As for your point about possibly lynching valuable gifters. Since gifts don't necessarily have a strong correlation with alignment those useful gifts could be given by scum. So, me may need to lynch people with good gifts. Ergo our decision about who to lynch should not be very much effected by what gift that person may give.

It is also possible one of the gifts was a cpr doctor to cause the second death.

I suppose this is a possibility at this point. The only person who knows if this could be the case is if someone got a "doc" gift and then saw thier target die. Right now most of the people who that could have been are dead. So, unless Shield comes forward with that info then we can't really do anything with this idea today. I also don't see how this is relevant to your defense.

You don't want to start playing the game of who gave what to whom on day 2. That should be saved until day 3 or 4 because even when you don't lynch the good gifter, they wind up getting boned because of sheeple that want to follow a bogus report that doesn't even have a 2nd person test against.

Can you explain what you are saying here? I mean sure we don't want to force out who everybody gave their gifts to today (or any day really). We do want to have every gift received and action taken to be claimed every single day though. Doing so allows us to act on this information to the best of our ability, and, in my opinion, forms the backbone of the strategy for this game. The only time I see us wanting to ask someone who they sent to is right before we lynch that person. (And even then, what they say shouldn't really have much an impact on whether or not we lynch them. Basically we just need the info from them in case they actually were town.)

Finally even though I am saying OMGUS at Yomiel, I didn't actually vote her because I'm more inclined to believe that the gift is just insane or paranoid. I do think she is quite ignorant for just randomly going out there with that instead of at least waiting til there was a second person that received a cop gift and use it to help determine sanity instead of rushing off to use it like it will go away. The tracker gift seems a better one to use as scum hunting instead of hinging on a random cop investigation. Sure state what you found out during the day time, but until enough evidence gathers there shouldn't be votes on just that until we determine the sanity of a person.

I am going to say what we do with information like a guilty result from a cop of unproven sanity is going to largely depend on what other potential leads we have at the time. Right now it seems like the best thing we got.

Hider: box of candies
Doubler: large piece of fabric

I personally would appreciate it if everyone who got a gift could provide the same info.

I doubt all 4 of them are mafia but I would bet at least one but probably two of them are scumbags in which case I applaud their efforts to force another bad lynch for the second straight day instead of figuring out sanities and who has what gift.

Are you suggesting that we should try to determine who gives what? Why would we do this?

I'm confused by what the host said, though.

You are allowed, and I encourage you to, say what item the gift you received was. You may not try to "prove" you received a certain gift by making reference to details of the pm.

Fastposted by pancakemix. His revelation of the second cop gift potentially changes some things.
Also /, can we just skip to the part where shield get's replaced, as it seems that we will be inactive the whole game even if he does show up now and then.

[spiesr]

Last night I got a cop gift. Jak flipped town. I also got a doc gift.

What items were they. (Especially the cop so we can tell it apart from the other one in future days.) Who did you doc?

[thechuck51]

roleblock: fuzzy hand-cuffs

i blocked campin_killer

[everywhere116]

Bulletproof: cooking pot

[Rodion]

Now that Shield is officially holding the game up, I second the petition to have him replaced.

@Shield's replacement: be sure to claim the gifts you received (both power and name, like "hider - box of candies") as well as what you did with them if applicable ("I hid behind Safari") in your 1st post.

I'll update my list once we hear from the Shield slot. So far we have 2 cops. 5 gifts missing between Shield, Safari and Aage.

[Yomiel]

I think we need to be on the lookout for Campin. Regardless of what happens with LSU, he's trying to push me for the next target.>_<

Who hasn't voted for LSU yet? The faster we kill him, the faster we learn how reliable this gift is.

[Campin_Killer]

I think we need to be on the lookout for Campin. Regardless of what happens with LSU, he's trying to push me for the next target.>_<

Who hasn't voted for LSU yet? The faster we kill him, the faster we learn how reliable this gift is.

Er, what? I said IF LSU turns out to be town, we should lynch you because you're probably a lying scumbag. There was no "push" for a target.

And the irony is, as soon as you post that, you then tell people to vote to kill him as you push hard for his lynch.

[Campin_Killer]

The way I see it, we can't really question Yomiel right now, however, if LSU turns out to be town, it'd be a safe bet to lynch Yomiel Day 3.

I still want to hear from shield and PCM first, though

If you proceed to try that, I will proceed to vote you tomorrow. Irrational thinking AND time stalling is all over your post.

Time stalling because...I want to hear what shield and PCM got as gifts?

[Campin_Killer]

The way I see it, we can't really question Yomiel right now, however, if LSU turns out to be town, it'd be a safe bet to lynch Yomiel Day 3.

I still want to hear from shield and PCM first, though

If you proceed to try that, I will proceed to vote you tomorrow. Irrational thinking AND time stalling is all over your post.

Time stalling because...I want to hear what shield and PCM got as gifts?

As for me voting Yomiel if LSU flips town, that's my gut thinking. You can threaten to vote me for it all you want, but it likely will not change my mind. Who's to say Yomiel actually got a cop gift and is just lying because he/she (sorry I seriously do not know which) can and probably won't be questioned, even on a town flip because it's "not her/his fault." That's just how I see it

EBWOP

[Hensow]

time is not of the essence the day will last days if we wish it why would we not want as much information as possible namely shields gifts also I shall reiterate spiesr's request for those with the cop gifts (Yomiel & pancakemix) to tell us what items they had such that we can tell the cops apart if we find one to be insane or whatever

[pancakemix]

Last night I got a cop gift. Jak flipped town. I also got a doc gift.

What items were they. (Especially the cop so we can tell it apart from the other one in future days.) Who did you doc?

Cop: A magic 8-ball
Doc: a pet leech (used on Rodion)

[Yomiel]

Mine was an 8-ball too.

I think we should just forget about shield for now. He's held up the game enough.: (

[spiesr]

Mine was an 8-ball too.

Two possibilities here. You are lying and just made a stupid decision. Or, / is deliberately fucking with our investigations by having two cop gifts with differing sanities having the same name. I suppose one other option would be that the Doubler gift worked retroactively.

Who hasn't voted for LSU yet? The faster we kill him, the faster we learn how reliable this gift is.

I think we should just forget about shield for now. He's held up the game enough.: (

I don't know why you always seem to be so excessively impatient, but it is getting annoying. The deadline for today is Wednesday, so we can take a few day to get everything sorted out before we rush to end the day. I don't see why you can't understand this. We want to gather all the relevant info before we make a lynch. As you can see, pancakemix came forward with information can potentially drastically changes the assessment of the investigation of LSU. It would have been very stupid on our part to have rushed to a lynch before giving him a chance to say this. Now we need to try and figure out what all of this means. If possible we want to hear from Shield (or better yet his replacement) before the day ends as well, as he may have had an item/action that is relevant to the prospective lynch.

[jak111]

Giftmagnet: Bottle of Conquer Club alcohol. (No one else will receive this with Saf dead)
Tracker: Tin of crackers.
??? (The non mentioned gift): Book of bad poetry.

Hmm, 3 cop claims?

Also, here's a full list so far.

Rolegift Gifts

Soundman - Rolecop Gift
Everywhere - Bullet proof
Yomiel - Cop (Got LSU as guilty)
Hensow - Commuter
Chuck - Role blocker (Blocked Campin)
Rodion - Hider (dj), double gifter
Pancake - Cop (Jak flips clean), Doctor
Jak - Tracker, Giftmagnet, and ???

12/19 (Presuming Vodean got his gift through) 12/18 (if not).



Information:

Hider: Box of Candies
Doubler: Large piece of fabric
Roleblock: Fuzzy Handcuffs
Bullet Proof: Cooking Pot
Cop (Pancake): Magic 8 ball
Doctor: Pet Leech
Cop (Yomiel): Claims 8 ball as well
Tracker: Tin of Crackers
???: Book of Bad Poetry
Gift magnet: Bottle of CC alcohol.

10/12 (gifts that were claimed)

The two scratched out gifts are ones of the two dead from last night.

Also, I put together a small cleared list (or potentially cleared)

DJ
Jak

(people who may be mafia but didn't make the kill):

Campin
Spiesr

and that's about it. So the remaining 12 are unknown. I have my own list in my notes but they are not usable without solid evidence.