GLG verdict

[codeblue1018]

Verdict is in and it's a one month ban per guidelines. Fair verdict on the mods part. Perhaps this verdict with sway further loopholes for GLG to explore once he returns especially if the next infraction results in a perma ban.

Good job c/a staff on attempting to keep things clean.

[hmsps]

Verdict is in and it's a one month ban per guidelines. Fair verdict on the mods part. Perhaps this verdict with sway further loopholes for GLG to explore once he returns especially if the next infraction results in a perma ban.

Good job c/a staff on attempting to keep things clean.

+100

[Dibbun]

Lol... I love how we have a big ass thread in GD about how membership is declining and part of it is because noobs/mid levels can't play complex maps and settings... the Conqueror takes time out of his busy schedule to help teach noobs freestyle and other settings, but he gets vilified.. bunch of bullshit, bad ruling made to appease the haters.

[jgordon1111]

Lol... I love how we have a big ass thread in GD about how membership is declining and part of it is because noobs/mid levels can't play complex maps and settings... the Conqueror takes time out of his busy schedule to help teach noobs freestyle and other settings, but he gets vilified.. bunch of bullshit, bad ruling made to appease the haters.

Just a question dibbun if you dont mind,you consider me a hater?

[Dibbun]

Lol... I love how we have a big ass thread in GD about how membership is declining and part of it is because noobs/mid levels can't play complex maps and settings... the Conqueror takes time out of his busy schedule to help teach noobs freestyle and other settings, but he gets vilified.. bunch of bullshit, bad ruling made to appease the haters.

Just a question dibbun if you dont mind,you consider me a hater?

No, but part of that is our prior experience together, and from what little I know of your character based on our history I have a high opinion of you.

[nippersean]

Lol... I love how we have a big ass thread in GD about how membership is declining and part of it is because noobs/mid levels can't play complex maps and settings... the Conqueror takes time out of his busy schedule to help teach noobs freestyle and other settings, but he gets vilified.. bunch of bullshit, bad ruling made to appease the haters.

You don't think GLG type behaviour is part of the declining membership problem?

Lol at "busy schedule" + "teach"

[natty dread]

Wait, what... now it's illegal to play against sergeants etc.? I thought the farming rules only applied to NR:s?

Can someone fill me in what's going on here? Not that I care particularly, but, you know...

[Dukasaur]

Wait, what... now it's illegal to play against sergeants etc.? I thought the farming rules only applied to NR:s?

Can someone fill me in what's going on here? Not that I care particularly, but, you know...

Farming is a very narrowly-defined offence, and yes, it only applies to targetting NRs.

What GLG has now been twice convicted of comes under the blanket rule

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden.

This omnibus rule exists to cover the creativity of people like GLG who pride themselves on finding new ways to cheat that slip through loopholes in other rules.

The method that resulted in GLG's first conviction was in hosting private games on his farming map and specialized settings, and inviting his victims into those games once he had established that they had no experience with that map and those settings. After his first conviction he kept a low profile until he devised a second method.

The method that resulted in his second conviction was to reverse the process: instead of hosting the games, he would befriend his potential victims in live chat, and persuade them to host the game on his map and settings. He thought that because of the technicality that he was now the invitee instead of the inviter, he would evade punishment. But he didn't: the rule is that any gross abuse of the game is forbidden, whether it follows some narrow technical formula or not.

[Woodruff]

Lol... I love how we have a big ass thread in GD about how membership is declining and part of it is because noobs/mid levels can't play complex maps and settings.

No...that's definitely not what that thread was about.

the Conqueror takes time out of his busy schedule to help teach noobs

That's cute.

If he's really interested in teaching, he should apply to the Society of Cooks. Then he'd be legitimately teaching.

[natty dread]

finding new ways to cheat that slip through loopholes in other rules.

So how can it be a "way to cheat" if it's not against any rule?

The method that resulted in his second conviction was to reverse the process: instead of hosting the games, he would befriend his potential victims in live chat, and persuade them to host the game on his map and settings. He thought that because of the technicality that he was now the invitee instead of the inviter, he would evade punishment. But he didn't: the rule is that any gross abuse of the game is forbidden, whether it follows some narrow technical formula or not.

So basically, it's illegal to play against someone who's inexperienced at a map/setting?

How is anyone ever going to learn any map/setting then, if no one who's experienced in them is allowed to play against them?

[IR1SH ACE]

I never thought I would see this verdict handed down and hats off to the C&A team for finally showing that they take this kind of thing very serious and hopefully this is the end of all this....but somehow I doubt it....top job...

oh and Dibbun your so transparent its ridiculous...either your not right in the head or more then likely you just love the attention you get from making nonsensical posts....anyway when you leaving again?

[josko.ri]

I think it is pretty low shot from C&A team to just say that he is busted without clarifying what he was done wrong, and without making precise rules what is under rules, and what is against the rules. what is conclusion of the verdict? is the conclusion that, once when you have alot of points, you are not allowed to play vs low rankers anymore? if so, why that is not written in community rules? It is always easier to punish someone who use loophole in rules than to admit rules are bad and try to improve the rules. This verdict is another case which proves that CC leaders do not have idea how to lead the site on good way, and do not have clear defined rules, where everyone will have equal treatment. Althought I think what GLG has done is unhonorable playing, I do not blame him, I blame CC management to have rules with so many loopholes. It is not weird that CC membership is declining with such a service.

Here is my suggestion how using bugs like this should be officially improved, with site feature, and not with punishing someone who is gulty only because he was able to find loophole in rules.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=174524&p=3813446#p3813446

Concise description:

• Develop a site feature which do not allow public games to be playes vs opponents or teams who have more than double points than opponents

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• This will protect low ranked players from being farmed/ranched by experienced players in order to get easy points

This is idea how to improve bugs in rules which have lead to this verdict:
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174172&view=unread#p3813311

my opinion about this (copied from deathcomesrippin's wall):
"I do not think what GLG has done is ok, but giving him ban without explain what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in his doing is just not ok and does not serve to any improvements of the site. point system obviously have bugs, and we need clear rules what is ok wand what is not ok. He is not guilty that point system developed by CC has bugs, he is just using it, and job of CC team should be to fix bugs in rules, and not to punish players who use system bugs for their own point benefit. "

so, if this suggestion gets accepted, then someone with 5000 points would be able to play vs everyone above 2500 points, what is pretty fair level of competition. average player with about 1500 points would be able to play vs opponents from 750 to 3000 points, what is aswell pretty wide range of available opponents. this suggestion do NOT apply for clan or tournament games which works around invite system of opponents who are joined together by draw. This is suggestion only for public games, and may include only 1v1 but also may include team type of games.

[deathcomesrippin]

An explanation was put up. And an apology for not putting one up in the first place

[natty dread]

It is always easier to punish someone who use loophole in rules than to admit rules are bad and try to improve the rules.

Better yet, rather than using a bandage solution of adding more and more rules, how about fixing the underlying mechanics that are causing all these problems... rehaul the scoring system, make it so there's no reason for people to play games against inexperienced players, and problem solved...

[DiM]

Better yet, rather than using a bandage solution of adding more and more rules, how about fixing the underlying mechanics that are causing all these problems... rehaul the scoring system, make it so there's no reason for people to play games against inexperienced players, and problem solved...

+1

unfortunately it was already suggested and rejected. CC admins would rather have a faulty easy to understand scoring formula, than a better but complex one.

[Woodruff]

It is always easier to punish someone who use loophole in rules than to admit rules are bad and try to improve the rules.

Better yet, rather than using a bandage solution of adding more and more rules, how about fixing the underlying mechanics that are causing all these problems... rehaul the scoring system, make it so there's no reason for people to play games against inexperienced players, and problem solved...

I certainly agree with this. While I think the case was handled appropriately, that would be a better way to handle it.

Unfortunately, the site seems determined not to do that.

[DiM]

what i'd like to know is when does the score reset come. people cheat to get points. if they are warned, temporary banned or even stripped of premium, but they get to keep their points i really don't see how that would stop future cheaters from trying the same thing.
hit cheaters where it hurts them the most, the points.

[codeblue1018]

I think it is pretty low shot from C&A team to just say that he is busted without clarifying what he was done wrong, and without making precise rules what is under rules, and what is against the rules. what is conclusion of the verdict? is the conclusion that, once when you have alot of points, you are not allowed to play vs low rankers anymore? if so, why that is not written in community rules? It is always easier to punish someone who use loophole in rules than to admit rules are bad and try to improve the rules. This verdict is another case which proves that CC leaders do not have idea how to lead the site on good way, and do not have clear defined rules, where everyone will have equal treatment. Althought I think what GLG has done is unhonorable playing, I do not blame him, I blame CC management to have rules with so many loopholes. It is not weird that CC membership is declining with such a service.

Here is my suggestion how using bugs like this should be officially improved, with site feature, and not with punishing someone who is gulty only because he was able to find loophole in rules.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 6#p3813446

Concise description:

• Develop a site feature which do not allow public games to be playes vs opponents or teams who have more than double points than opponents

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• This will protect low ranked players from being farmed/ranched by experienced players in order to get easy points

This is idea how to improve bugs in rules which have lead to this verdict:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... d#p3813311

my opinion about this (copied from deathcomesrippin's wall):
"I do not think what GLG has done is ok, but giving him ban without explain what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in his doing is just not ok and does not serve to any improvements of the site. point system obviously have bugs, and we need clear rules what is ok wand what is not ok. He is not guilty that point system developed by CC has bugs, he is just using it, and job of CC team should be to fix bugs in rules, and not to punish players who use system bugs for their own point benefit. "

so, if this suggestion gets accepted, then someone with 5000 points would be able to play vs everyone above 2500 points, what is pretty fair level of competition. average player with about 1500 points would be able to play vs opponents from 750 to 3000 points, what is aswell pretty wide range of available opponents. this suggestion do NOT apply for clan or tournament games which works around invite system of opponents who are joined together by draw. This is suggestion only for public games, and may include only 1v1 but also may include team type of games.

I agree with most of what you said and the solutions to fix the issue. What I can't understand is that you say you don't blame GLG but blame management; I would agree with that if it were a first offense mate. It's not; it's been going on since he started this site even under his other user name. He was warned once, then continued the same practice only flip flopped. At what point do you be a man and take your initial warning to heart and change your ways? I too would like an overhaul of the scoring system and have concise rules to boot; there isn't as of now, so this is the best alternative, no? This was a fair ruling, like it or not.

[WILLIAMS5232]

I think it is pretty low shot from C&A team to just say that he is busted without clarifying what he was done wrong, and without making precise rules what is under rules, and what is against the rules. what is conclusion of the verdict? is the conclusion that, once when you have alot of points, you are not allowed to play vs low rankers anymore? if so, why that is not written in community rules? It is always easier to punish someone who use loophole in rules than to admit rules are bad and try to improve the rules. This verdict is another case which proves that CC leaders do not have idea how to lead the site on good way, and do not have clear defined rules, where everyone will have equal treatment. Althought I think what GLG has done is unhonorable playing, I do not blame him, I blame CC management to have rules with so many loopholes. It is not weird that CC membership is declining with such a service.

Here is my suggestion how using bugs like this should be officially improved, with site feature, and not with punishing someone who is gulty only because he was able to find loophole in rules.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 6#p3813446

Concise description:

• Develop a site feature which do not allow public games to be playes vs opponents or teams who have more than double points than opponents

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• This will protect low ranked players from being farmed/ranched by experienced players in order to get easy points

This is idea how to improve bugs in rules which have lead to this verdict:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... d#p3813311

my opinion about this (copied from deathcomesrippin's wall):
"I do not think what GLG has done is ok, but giving him ban without explain what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in his doing is just not ok and does not serve to any improvements of the site. point system obviously have bugs, and we need clear rules what is ok wand what is not ok. He is not guilty that point system developed by CC has bugs, he is just using it, and job of CC team should be to fix bugs in rules, and not to punish players who use system bugs for their own point benefit. "

so, if this suggestion gets accepted, then someone with 5000 points would be able to play vs everyone above 2500 points, what is pretty fair level of competition. average player with about 1500 points would be able to play vs opponents from 750 to 3000 points, what is aswell pretty wide range of available opponents. this suggestion do NOT apply for clan or tournament games which works around invite system of opponents who are joined together by draw. This is suggestion only for public games, and may include only 1v1 but also may include team type of games.

I agree with most of what you said and the solutions to fix the issue. What I can't understand is that you say you don't blame GLG but blame management; I would agree with that if it were a first offense mate. It's not; it's been going on since he started this site even under his other user name. He was warned once, then continued the same practice only flip flopped. At what point do you be a man and take your initial warning to heart and change your ways? I too would like an overhaul of the scoring system and have concise rules to boot; there isn't as of now, so this is the best alternative, no? This was a fair ruling, like it or not.

[Campin_Killer]

Wait, what... now it's illegal to play against sergeants etc.? I thought the farming rules only applied to NR:s?

Can someone fill me in what's going on here? Not that I care particularly, but, you know...

Short version:

He had people create City Mogul maps with challenging settings and would "teach them after the game" in "live chat" (as in, never), how to play it. And got a shit load of points from it. The end.

[IR1SH ACE]

I think it is pretty low shot from C&A team to just say that he is busted without clarifying what he was done wrong, and without making precise rules what is under rules, and what is against the rules. what is conclusion of the verdict? is the conclusion that, once when you have alot of points, you are not allowed to play vs low rankers anymore? if so, why that is not written in community rules? It is always easier to punish someone who use loophole in rules than to admit rules are bad and try to improve the rules. This verdict is another case which proves that CC leaders do not have idea how to lead the site on good way, and do not have clear defined rules, where everyone will have equal treatment. Althought I think what GLG has done is unhonorable playing, I do not blame him, I blame CC management to have rules with so many loopholes. It is not weird that CC membership is declining with such a service.

Here is my suggestion how using bugs like this should be officially improved, with site feature, and not with punishing someone who is gulty only because he was able to find loophole in rules.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=174524&p=3813446#p3813446

Concise description:

• Develop a site feature which do not allow public games to be playes vs opponents or teams who have more than double points than opponents

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• This will protect low ranked players from being farmed/ranched by experienced players in order to get easy points

This is idea how to improve bugs in rules which have lead to this verdict:
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174172&view=unread#p3813311

my opinion about this (copied from deathcomesrippin's wall):
"I do not think what GLG has done is ok, but giving him ban without explain what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in his doing is just not ok and does not serve to any improvements of the site. point system obviously have bugs, and we need clear rules what is ok wand what is not ok. He is not guilty that point system developed by CC has bugs, he is just using it, and job of CC team should be to fix bugs in rules, and not to punish players who use system bugs for their own point benefit. "

so, if this suggestion gets accepted, then someone with 5000 points would be able to play vs everyone above 2500 points, what is pretty fair level of competition. average player with about 1500 points would be able to play vs opponents from 750 to 3000 points, what is aswell pretty wide range of available opponents. this suggestion do NOT apply for clan or tournament games which works around invite system of opponents who are joined together by draw. This is suggestion only for public games, and may include only 1v1 but also may include team type of games.

I agree with most of what you said and the solutions to fix the issue. What I can't understand is that you say you don't blame GLG but blame management; I would agree with that if it were a first offense mate. It's not; it's been going on since he started this site even under his other user name. He was warned once, then continued the same practice only flip flopped. At what point do you be a man and take your initial warning to heart and change your ways? I too would like an overhaul of the scoring system and have concise rules to boot; there isn't as of now, so this is the best alternative, no? This was a fair ruling, like it or not.

i like josko's suggestion here or the the idea of fixing the scoring system and hope that team CC do something about it but will not hold my breath on it...but like codeblue I disagree with your opinion that this is not GLG's fault, as someone who spent a lot of time looking into GLG and his style of play...I can tell you that he has been finding loopholes for 4 years now, 3 months after joining the site and playing his way up to Captain Rank with just over 1800 points he started to adopted the style of play that he then continued up until present day..

back then he was farming NR's but there was no rule against this and when it was finally introduced at the start of 2009 he continued to farm NR's and it took two C&A cases with a [noted] followed by a [warning] to make him change is approach...so what does he do next he starts to target players that are past the 5 games played mark but only just, most of the time swooping in just as they lose there ?.....numerous more C&A cases that all are [cleared] continue for the next 3 years up until the most recent cases this year were it is final determined that this style of ranching is an abuse of the game...GLG receives a [warning] but again thinks that he can just tweak a few things and he is back at it again....

So yes the CC admin are to blame in some respects for not having clearly defined rules and allowing so many loopholes to be exploited but GLG has had numerous chances to stop exploiting these loopholes and has continuously laughed in the face of the admins and community by not doing so and adapting his games to please one rule yet allowing himself to continue to play risk free games...so to say that you "don't blame him" is just silly

I and im sure most players here that have been vocal about this in the past have no problem if a player wants to be a 1v1 specialist on a certain Map & Settings that they know they will win on most of the time, as long as this game is made public and open for anyone to join...but to exclusively only play games were you cherry pick your opponents based on your knowledge that they have never played the map & settings and have nearly 0% chance of winning the game is an abuse of the game and Im glad to see it is been taken seriously now...

Cheers Ace

[lord voldemort]

what i'd like to know is when does the score reset come. people cheat to get points. if they are warned, temporary banned or even stripped of premium, but they get to keep their points i really don't see how that would stop future cheaters from trying the same thing.
hit cheaters where it hurts them the most, the points.

Yep...completely agree...They dont care too much if they are away for a month or whatever that punishment is...Its the points and the 'glory' of being on top that motivates them

[codeblue1018]

what i'd like to know is when does the score reset come. people cheat to get points. if they are warned, temporary banned or even stripped of premium, but they get to keep their points i really don't see how that would stop future cheaters from trying the same thing.
hit cheaters where it hurts them the most, the points.

Yep...completely agree...They dont care too much if they are away for a month or whatever that punishment is...Its the points and the 'glory' of being on top that motivates them

Whether or not GLG gets stripped of points is unknown; I am content with his verdict. If he decides to slip up again, it's banned for good, so I believe he'll play by the rules from this point forward. As far as future violators, a point reset would be a great deterrent.

[Timminz]

Have you ever wondered if anyone has ever been conqueror under more than one name?

[Mr Changsha]

A difficult case. CC must be very careful to exact punishment within the rules. I don't like (and have never liked ) this catch-all 'gross abuse' clause. It is intellectually lazy, and ripe for the exploitation of mob rule. I fail to see how within the current rules playing stripers (and even officers???) is breaking the rules.

Yet like many I am not comfortable with the kind of game GLG plays and I don't think it is good for the site. I naturally point you all back to my 'Why CC is (actually) Declining' for the solution..

I also have always had a sneaking admiration for the antics of our more celebrated farmers. That determination to stretch the rules to the very limit is a personality trait I adore. They are almost always highly intelligent individuals determined to play out their fantasies of being the 'big bad wolf' in a virtual setting. I've always tried to defend them where possible, and yet again I find myself questioning a decision against a farmer when it is given.

I would have to admit I've always been horribly conflicted on this issue.