HP: fight for freedom. Game over. Wizards won.

[Djfireside]

Well that was...odd?

Anyway, here's what I think I can live with.

1. We lynch Chapcrap. Sorry, dude. Your play has been horrendous. You have too many holes in your night actions, and you haven't made one accusation that was actually correct. You seem to fall back on "I have the strongest claim in the game, I must be town!" too often. You don't have the strongest claim. Jonty did. He's dead, and I still know there have to be at least two players that will have stronger claims. Your claim is fine by itself, but you have played for crap. I can't ignore your play in favor of your claim. I'd rather lynch you today than risk you muddying up the waters again. If you turn town, then I'll be really upset at your play.

I am tending to agree that Chap's play has been a bit off and the whole fact that he does know exactly what he has and is going up and back debating it with himself is kinda strange as most of the time the role is stated, you have x y z and thats it. Not hard to declinate between the two so there I can agree.

2. During the night, I would suspect that DJ is mafia. Our power roles should target him. It's only a hunch I have, so I can't go for a lynch, and I hate going on flavor, but I'm suspecting he's the new Voldemort...perhaps as a Tom Riddle version, or something.

By Lore, I cant fault you for that logic. In Chamber Ginny was taken over so I can see how that logic would befit. Thats not what happened and feel free to investigate or watch me as I will be doing nothing sadly. I am still Ginny and still town so take that as you will.

3. The problem we then encounter is if Chap comes up town, what do we do? The only choice we leave ourselves is to lynch Iron Butterfly, based on Chap's investigation. I don't like that option...but it's what we corner ourselves with. This also leaves the possibility that mafia skates for two days, and we're down to 6 players left...unless tonight's actions reveal anything.

This part I dont agree with. Do I think IB is town. Sadly I am torn with him but based on their play with Dazza I give them the benefit of the doubt for each day and hope they are who they say they are and havent given a reason to doubt them. You are thinking to go after IB because of a Non-Wizard result... He admitted that he was not a wizard which means that the investigation is correct. You cant believe that IB is scum if Chap turns town because he would have nothing to do with it. Its simply a do you think IB is scum and unfortunately non of the outcomes thus far will tell us any different

Thoughts please. I'd like to talk this out rather than throwing votes around.

On to more issues. Chap appears to be believe that IB is scum as on Day 3 at the end they did come out to state that they think IB is scum for their reason which came before IB claimed I believe. So it seems that they have some shred of truth to them which holds up slightly against their explination of their roles. Overall Chap has dug a bigger hole than he has dirt to fill it but something about how he came after IB almost makes me think he "MAY" be telling the truth. I by no means am clearing them and havent put off voting them just yet but toying with a few ideas. I wont vote IB by how he handled dazza and since he didnt turn voldemort there is no reason he should have to sacrifice someone to gain favor.

In summary

Chap does look pretty bad but with his come out against IB earlier than claim plus PCM hitting Chap I am unsure.

IB at least for now has claimed and passes all statements made against them

At this point Im 50/50 on chap and following up with my theory on my submariner.

[Iron Butterfly]

First of all, mc, quit trying to say that James and Lily are strong claims. They are not strong at all.

Second, Tails, it's very easy for mafia to get town cred and a win if they throw other members under the bus. Perhaps you aren't mafia and you're third party. I don't know. All I know is that you're lying again.

I have no problem telling my night actions now because they are all used and I don't think I can get anyone else to slip up, as Tails did, by keeping them a secret. And, btw, keeping them a secret is a good move, because it makes the mafia wonder what actions I have. They don't know if I am holding anything back or if I am truly out of actions.

Night 1: Investigated IB, Result: Not a wizard
Night 2: Tried to kill IB, he didn't die and when I questioned freezie, I didn't have the ability any longer.
Night 3: Tried to track Neb and got no result. I asked if I still had the ability and was informed that I did.
Night 4: Tracked strike wolf, he visitied Neb.
Night 5: nothing
Night 6: Used a doctor ability on strike wolf

Ok, those are the results that I sent in, but now looking at my role PM, I never had a kill ability. I must have dreamed that. That is what I sent in however. So, I'm not sure if freezie just ignored my kill action or accepted it. I was never informed that I was being an idiot by sending in an action that I wasn't supposed to have, so I'm not sure. AND, that being said, I still have a roleblock ability. I thought I was out of actions, but I guess not. I need to clarify with freezie.

OK I see the Doc ability.

I still do not understand how you can NOT know what your abilities are.

I have pretty much said what needs to be said. I am tired of repeating myself.

Either hes Mafia/Third party or a complete fuckup. If hes a f*ck up people can not give me shit because he keeps changing stories or cant remember if he used/sent a night action.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Firstly, you do this solely at work?

Secondly, Talos no, L-1. Unvote

Why Everywhere? Why did you unvote Dazza? This is what sticks in my craw...and yes, I know this is a whole new case rather than the Iron Butterfly/Chapcrap case. But Iron makes a point about his Wizard vs. Nonwizard findings. All the deatheaters are wizards. I'm starting to believe that Strike is only going to get Wizard results, except for Iron. Therefore I go back to my original case on Everywhere today. Something isn't right with this boy, and the fact that he bails on the Dazza lynch is key evidence against him. Can we at least pursue him to get a claim? We can come back to Chap and Iron if we need to. I think they have said everything they can about each other.

[chapcrap]

1)You accuse Tails of lieing because your night action did not...what? We really don't know what you did. You imply you tracked. You were so sure you ripped Tails apart.

2) You say you made a mistake and really didn't try to night kill me as you don't have a kill, But you can now block. You seem to blame Freezie in a roundabout way for the messup.

3) You act surprised and righteous when people call you on this crap.

4) Now you once again say you really did have a night kill action, how do you NOT know you role???

5) To top this off you now say you forgot to send your Night action in to freezie or he didnt receive it? That isn't really clear either. If you forgot to do it why would you go so hard against Tails? How did you determine Freezie did not receive your night action?

6) you still point fingers at others who dare question and vote you guilty?

IB, you are going on a crazy rant it seems like. Most of your points don't even make sense.

1. I was never in confusion about what I did last night. I sent an action to protect strike. Apparently freezie didn't get it. I don't know what happened with that. So, why wouldn't I say something about that? Why wouldn't I think that Tails was lying? And I already said what I sent. If you don't want to read my posts, then don't try to attack them.
2. I never blamed freezie for anything...except maybe letting me be a retard without correcting me. I did try to kill you night 2. I never said that I didn't try. My kill just didn't count or matter because I had no kill action.
3. Umm... no. Not sure how even if that were true that it makes me scum.
4. Once I corrected myself, I never said again that I had a kill action. Again, please read my posts first. I didn't know my night actions, because I thought I had remembered them and never checked my PM again to check them until yesterday (RL day, not Day 6). I don't think that is very difficult to understand.
5. I did send a protect action to freezie last night. He said he received nothing. I don't know if I messed up, if he messed up, or if CC messed up. Sorry that I'm not able to tell you who messed up.
6. The only person I point a finger at is you.

You say I am scum but your investigation said, "Not a wizard". That does not mean scum. In fact this whole notion of people changing the wording of the investigation strikes me as odd.

With Wolf and Chap something occurred to me today. They can get the result of Wizard or Non-wizard now to determine who is Mafia and Town.

By those choices Voldemort would be a wizard as would Bellatrix.

Not all death eaters are wizards. I think this point is invalid. What is the point of a cop if he can't tell who is bad and good?

Serius Snapes turned out to be third party. I am still not entirely sure of what his role was but I assume it was to harm other wizards or at least James Potter. He would be considered a wizard as well.

There is no character named Serius Snapes. There is Sirius Black and Severus Snape. So... what are you talking about?

I am a Centaur. I am not a wizard.

Doubt it.

What good are the investigative powers of these guys if they cant reliably determine who the good guys and bad guys are? It just does not make sense.

Exactly. That's why you are scum, because we are getting reliable information.

People get lynched for doing a hundred times less then what Chap has done. His yes i did, no I didn't, I'm really not sure defense is ludicrous and people seem to except it?

I don't think people are excepting anything. I'm not sure if they are accepting or not.

[Nebuchadnezer]

1)You accuse Tails of lieing because your night action did not...what? We really don't know what you did. You imply you tracked. You were so sure you ripped Tails apart.

2) You say you made a mistake and really didn't try to night kill me as you don't have a kill, But you can now block. You seem to blame Freezie in a roundabout way for the messup.

3) You act surprised and righteous when people call you on this crap.

4) Now you once again say you really did have a night kill action, how do you NOT know you role???

5) To top this off you now say you forgot to send your Night action in to freezie or he didnt receive it? That isn't really clear either. If you forgot to do it why would you go so hard against Tails? How did you determine Freezie did not receive your night action?

6) you still point fingers at others who dare question and vote you guilty?

IB, you are going on a crazy rant it seems like. Most of your points don't even make sense.

1. I was never in confusion about what I did last night. I sent an action to protect strike. Apparently freezie didn't get it. I don't know what happened with that. So, why wouldn't I say something about that? Why wouldn't I think that Tails was lying? And I already said what I sent. If you don't want to read my posts, then don't try to attack them.
2. I never blamed freezie for anything...except maybe letting me be a retard without correcting me. I did try to kill you night 2. I never said that I didn't try. My kill just didn't count or matter because I had no kill action.
3. Umm... no. Not sure how even if that were true that it makes me scum.
4. Once I corrected myself, I never said again that I had a kill action. Again, please read my posts first. I didn't know my night actions, because I thought I had remembered them and never checked my PM again to check them until yesterday (RL day, not Day 6). I don't think that is very difficult to understand.
5. I did send a protect action to freezie last night. He said he received nothing. I don't know if I messed up, if he messed up, or if CC messed up. Sorry that I'm not able to tell you who messed up.
6. The only person I point a finger at is you.

You say I am scum but your investigation said, "Not a wizard". That does not mean scum. In fact this whole notion of people changing the wording of the investigation strikes me as odd.

With Wolf and Chap something occurred to me today. They can get the result of Wizard or Non-wizard now to determine who is Mafia and Town.

By those choices Voldemort would be a wizard as would Bellatrix.

Not all death eaters are wizards. I think this point is invalid. What is the point of a cop if he can't tell who is bad and good?

Serius Snapes turned out to be third party. I am still not entirely sure of what his role was but I assume it was to harm other wizards or at least James Potter. He would be considered a wizard as well.

There is no character named Serius Snapes. There is Sirius Black and Severus Snape. So... what are you talking about?

I am a Centaur. I am not a wizard.

Doubt it.

What good are the investigative powers of these guys if they cant reliably determine who the good guys and bad guys are? It just does not make sense.

Exactly. That's why you are scum, because we are getting reliable information.

People get lynched for doing a hundred times less then what Chap has done. His yes i did, no I didn't, I'm really not sure defense is ludicrous and people seem to except it?

I don't think people are excepting anything. I'm not sure if they are accepting or not.

Your most coherent post yet. I'm not sure I agree with it all, but at least I can understand it.

[freezie]

Freezie makes a post, which to me suggests that folks are using him as an excuse for results, misunderstandings and foulups to explain their own incompetence. I find that post extremely telling.

This kind of sentence is what I am trying to avoid by posting what I did. My name is up in way too many argument when it shouldn't be. I didn't tell anything but to play the game as the game should be played. I have not said more than that.


But this is my final word on this. If you guys are going to use me in your argument from now on, be my guess. The game already suffered from it.

[spiesr]

1)You accuse Tails of lieing because your night action did not...what? We really don't know what you did. You imply you tracked. You were so sure you ripped Tails apart.

Pleas point me to the post where Chapcrap implied that his night 6 action against Strike was a tracker action. I do not recall Chapcrap ever implying such a thing himself. I know thet Neb assumed it for whatever reason, but that is all.

4) Now you once again say you really did have a night kill action, how do you NOT know you role???

Isn't he currently saying that he never had a kill action?

You say I am scum but your investigation said, "Not a wizard". That does not mean scum. In fact this whole notion of people changing the wording of the investigation strikes me as odd.

If Chapcrap and Strikewolf are correct when they say that the only results their actions could have returned are "Wizard" and "Non-Wizard" then the non-wizard result looks to me to be essentially equivalent to a "guilty" result.

What good are the investigative powers of these guys if they cant reliably determine who the good guys and bad guys are? It just does not make sense.

Precisely why I am making the assumption that "Wizard" = Town.

In summary

Chap does look pretty bad but with his come out against IB earlier than claim plus PCM hitting Chap I am unsure.

IB at least for now has claimed and passes all statements made against them

At this point Im 50/50 on chap and following up with my theory on my submariner.

Or rather "I more or less believe in Iron Butterfly, but am very wishywashy on everything else and will follow whatever everybody else does on the issues."

[everywhere116]

You say I am scum but your investigation said, "Not a wizard". That does not mean scum. In fact this whole notion of people changing the wording of the investigation strikes me as odd.

If Chapcrap and Strikewolf are correct when they say that the only results their actions could have returned are "Wizard" and "Non-Wizard" then the non-wizard result looks to me to be essentially equivalent to a "guilty" result.

What good are the investigative powers of these guys if they cant reliably determine who the good guys and bad guys are? It just does not make sense.

Precisely why I am making the assumption that "Wizard" = Town.[/quote]
I wouldn't make that assumption. We've already had one wizard third-party.

I think that the Wizard/Non-Wizard designation refers to whether or not the word "Wizard" appears in your role name. By this definition, none of the Deatheaters would be considered Wizards as far as Strike and the other investigative roles are concerned. And obviously Snape would, despite being third party.

If we operate under the assumption that Snape was the only non-town Wizard character (a scenario I find likely) then we can assume that the rest of the Wizard investigation results indicate that the character is town. It doesn't preclude the possibility that there are Non-Wizard town characters, such as a town centaur, and frankly by this point I think IB is who he says he is.

[Nebuchadnezer]

All dead wizards have been town, with the exception of Snape.

All dead mafia have been Deatheaters...or non-wizard.

Unfortunately, we don't have an example of a death by a non-wizard third-party. However, Firenze could be that...but that means he is 3rd party, not town. There is a ton of WIFOM here.

I'd rather leave both of these two alone.

Everywhere conveniently did not answer my question...

Of course everybody is so laser focused on Chap/Iron, that they will not even glance at another case for a second...

[Iron Butterfly]

Guys Im on the road should be in Maine tonight. Ive had chance to "skim" a bit.

My apologies for bringing Freezie name into the conversation.

Snapes is Snapes for crying out loud. You know who I meant.

LOL I am driving on route 95 up to Mass yesterday and all Im thinking about is mafia and this game.

FirstUnvote Chap" I guess he is a complete screwup then. If no one else thinks the screw ups are important I am not going to Scream against the wind.

We have one Mafia/Third Party perhaps two....Personally I beleive two. Just my opinion. We may have a were wolf as well.

The point I was trying to make earlier about investigations still bothers me and all I can come up with is this.

I am not a cop.
I am not a wizard
I am a Centaur

Why would cop investigations only produce Wizard and Non Wizard? We know the Deatheaters are wizards. We know Snapes was a wizard. The bus driver was a wizard Are you telling me that the cop role was created to catch one person at the expense of ignoring all others? We still have several folks unclaimed. So far my role has been the only role specificlly created to investigate and positively identify Deatheaters, which I have done.

It seems very sly ( I would say sadistic) to make a role such as mine, that can produce a Deatheater result, while at the same time making me a prime suspect because I am a non-wizard, which leads me to beleive that there MUST be someone else who can come up non wizard.

WHY have I been the only Non-wizard to come up so far? My theory is this and yes it is WIFOM but if we have a were wolf recruiter that may soon change.

I want someone to explain to me why we have had NO investigative roles desighned to catch Deatheaters or third party Deatheaters like Snapes. We had Harry for Voldemart but that is not the same.

[Djfireside]

At this point Im 50/50 on chap and following up with my theory on my submariner.

Or rather "I more or less believe in Iron Butterfly, but am very wishywashy on everything else and will follow whatever everybody else does on the issues."[/quote]

I was trying to follow another case on ALT who seems to have disappeared again which when it happened with Bleed and I chased him I got lucky so I was figuring since he is also off the grid quite possibly could be running the same MO as bleed. I agree I am unsure where to go at this point, I have a bad feeling on ALT but thats just me so I will let it go plus if he is scum then that leads to a whole nother set of thoughts.

All dead wizards have been town, with the exception of Snape.

All dead mafia have been Deatheaters...or non-wizard.

Unfortunately, we don't have an example of a death by a non-wizard third-party. However, Firenze could be that...but that means he is 3rd party, not town. There is a ton of WIFOM here.

I'd rather leave both of these two alone.

Everywhere conveniently did not answer my question...

Of course everybody is so laser focused on Chap/Iron, that they will not even glance at another case for a second...

I guess the statement would be if Strike is correct in his investigations and he has only hit town which leaves a few people out of it, including one that I had thoughts on, and possibly someone else on their list based on the night action. At this point, as stated I tend to believe IB for lack of other reason. Chap I am still not 100% but Neb makes a point on Everywhere and since I believe IB is who he thinks he is and Chap im stalemated, I will see what we could possibly get from Neb's find.

UNVOTE
Vote Everwhere

[strike wolf]

Stan stunpike-death eater busdriver
bellatrix lastrange - death eater role blocker
Voldemort- death eater Lord

none of them showed up as "wizard"

ib you never answered my question. do you have a better explanation for why your action did not go through than having been role blocked as the town role blocker said?

[strike wolf]

@Ib's question about tails and chap. i I believe chap. his night action result on you matches my possible actions. tails was a bit tougher but I really don't think he would take a shot in the dark to say no One visited me last night...there was also some out of thread influence if I am to be completely honest.

[everywhere116]

Why would cop investigations only produce Wizard and Non Wizard? We know the Deatheaters are wizards. We know Snapes was a wizard. The bus driver was a wizard Are you telling me that the cop role was created to catch one person at the expense of ignoring all others? We still have several folks unclaimed. So far my role has been the only role specificlly created to investigate and positively identify Deatheaters, which I have done.

Why do you keep assuming that?

[Iron Butterfly]

Stan stunpike-death eater busdriver
bellatrix lastrange - death eater role blocker
Voldemort- death eater Lord

none of them showed up as "wizard"

ib you never answered my question. do you have a better explanation for why your action did not go through than having been role blocked as the town role blocker said?

We have several unclaimed roles.
We do not know that the people claimed are who they say or what they can do.
Chap has suddenly gotten a role block ability so why wouldnt others have them?
We do know PCM targeted me the night Hippo did. PCM was mafia.
You have no idea if Hippos Block went through or that someone someone else did not block him.

All speculation. You can not say it is not possible.

My investigation was sucessful!

[Iron Butterfly]

Why would cop investigations only produce Wizard and Non Wizard? We know the Deatheaters are wizards. We know Snapes was a wizard. The bus driver was a wizard Are you telling me that the cop role was created to catch one person at the expense of ignoring all others? We still have several folks unclaimed. So far my role has been the only role specificlly created to investigate and positively identify Deatheaters, which I have done.

Why do you keep assuming that?

My wife is giving me glares to leave the Hotel Lobby LOl.

All the lore keepers where screaming for lynches because people went against lore or because their roles did not fit.
The Death eaters were wizards in the books and in the movies.

[everywhere116]

I'm not talking about lore. I'm talking about investigation results. I don't think Deatheaters show up as "Wizards" to an investigative role because the word "Wizard" isn't in their role name. Other people think this as well. I think you're the only one who believes that Deatheaters show up as "Wizard" in investigations.

[strike wolf]

So you are saying that you found it so likely that hippo was blocked again the night you did not get a result and that instead something else happened to cause you to not get a result. that you didn't ask if you still had the ability?

Howevr I will unvote it slipped my mind that tails did say that PCM did block you that One night.

[chapcrap]

Chap has suddenly gotten a role block ability so why wouldnt others have them?

I didn't all of sudden get an ability. I all of a sudden realized I had it. Saying that other people also didn't realize they had a roleblock ability is ridiculous.

[spiesr]

It seems very sly ( I would say sadistic) to make a role such as mine, that can produce a Deatheater result, while at the same time making me a prime suspect because I am a non-wizard, which leads me to beleive that there MUST be someone else who can come up non wizard.

Everyone except for you has either claimed a wizard or been investigated as a wizard. Thus, I think we can conclude that there are no pro-town non-wizards. Accordingly, Vote Iron Butterfly

WHY have I been the only Non-wizard to come up so far?

Because you are lying?

I want someone to explain to me why we have had NO investigative roles desighned to catch Deatheaters or third party Deatheaters like Snapes. We had Harry for Voldemart but that is not the same.

We do. Wizard = Town. Non-Wizard = Non-Town

[Nebuchadnezer]

We need a vote count, please.

1. I still haven't seen TAILS post his green part of his message.
2. Everywhere is conveniently glossing over my question on why he unvoted Dazza.

[alt1978]

I feel like neb is starting to zero in on something here...the ib vs chap thing in a lot of ways has been carrying on for awhile. Thanks ib for answering the questions that I had...i don't think it cleared anything up for me. I do agree that trying to think of things in terms of future actions is not a worthwhile exercise...i'll try to stick to more of the facts and what we have to go on in the future.

That's a really interesting catch with everywhere backing off dazza...when I weigh everything out in my mind...here's what I see.

IB- Has a verdict reading "non wizard" (make what you will of that...i know it's been discussed from a lot of angles but it certainly throws his name into the hat of suspects.) Also lead the charge on the dazza case. Very helpful to town to date.

Chap- Forgets his JOAT roles and fails to get a night action in last night. Comes after tails...comes to a resolution over their conflicting reports/night actions.

Everywhere- Came hard after IB and then disappeared when heat was on PCM...was cleared as a wizard by Strike. Also backed off of dazza right before the lynch.

Alt- was dead wrong on the safari case...sheepishly tried to follow along smarter. Has yet to achieve any level of desired smartness. Was cleared by strike as wizzard.

Neb- has been on the forefront of leading cases. twice cleared by strike

dj- claims ginny weasley...doesn't believe strike's results and keeps his vote on me. Is also on a search for a mystical superpower that may or may not appear.

Spiesr- no real vibe...except that he logically and thoroughly ripped me a new asshole for my suggestion that strike was perhaps not town.

Strike- I have had suspicions but it seems

Tails-as far as i can tell comes through the pcm debate as town.

mc#'s- Proven double voter. Unproven anything else. Double vote has not been used as far as i can tell outside of the partry trick application during the great MC case day 2 or so.

Given this list...I lean towards dj, mc, and everywhere being my top three most wanted. Chap and IB are largely still unknown for me. As stated above i have failed to achieve any sort of brilliant (or mediocre) insight into deciphering what is going on between them. If folks decide to make this an IB vs Chap thing...I have to say chap's play has been more suspect. I can't decipher anything from claims, flavor, or night actions. I would be voting chap purely on the basis of the fact that IB has to this point done more to help the town than chap. If evidence to the contrary were to present itself I am open to listen to it...but at the end of the day...we've known about chap and ib being suspicious since day 2...and we've made it this far coexisting. That makes me want to persue one of the others...but split cases don't do much good.

[chapcrap]

I didn't even realize alt was still in the game... Anyway, let's talk about your recap.

What are you trying to say about strike?

And, mc is not a proven anything. All that has been proven is that there is a secret voter in the game.

[everywhere116]

@Alt: I feel like I have to correct two things about your post and then comment on another:

Everywhere: I did not disappear when the heat was on PCM. I was watching and posting, and then I flipped sides when it was clear that PCM was lying.

DJ: He hasn't kept his vote on you, he;s been jumping around and is currently voting for me.

That makes me want to persue one of the others...but split cases don't do much good.

Actually, with a smaller, managable population and an infinite deadline we actually can feasibly look at everyone without much trouble from shifting gears. Despite the inaccuracies in your post I think what you did is actually what we should be doing.

Also, where is MC? He hasn't posted in days.

[everywhere116]

I suppose he is busy taking control of the Conquerer's position, though. Once he gets a bit of the limelight he'll forget everything about where he came from.