Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[DoomYoshi]

EBWOP

And I still want you to answer my questions Doom

Sigh. I still want to answer your questions. Saf and chap did a pretty good rundown of it.

It is late tonight so I will give an outline of the points I will bring forth tomorrow:
1) everything, I don't understand what you mean.
2) jak, your points would be valid if I was extremely pushing. I have already backed off and no longer care so I don't see what your deal still is
3) there is a benefit to mafia. Jak thinks it is because it makes his block less effective. That is WIFOM. WIFOM = BS. (while I am at it, MO is modus operandi, literally operating mode, or meta). If I was mafia and jak protected me, that would change my play style to even more pro-jak, which is the only actual benefit to mafia. Somehow a bunch of players missed that
4) Rodion, even your conditional fos is flawed, for as I said, it is an obvious possibility. It wasn't swept under the rug, many others (including yourself) have pointed it out. Did I sweep under the rug the possibility that the cop forgot to send in his night action?

[shieldgenerator7]

Hey, I just realized we're on page 77! Hooray!

-SG7 ( )

[Ragian]

PMC, I'm not outting the information for now because I see no benefits for town of it, but I DO see benefits for mafia if I decide to protect the same person.
...
PMC is still breathing and so is the target I saved.

Also, UNVOTE jak outed it, so not much point in trying to keep the pressure off of him to claim night actions.

-SG7 ( )

Ahm ... he didn't out it. That's not how I read the above. Did you skim it? FoS SG7.

@Rodion, cheers for enlightening me.

@new guy1, where you at?

[safariguy5]

On an unrelated note, also interesting to see the 180º from Jak. D1 he was "let me just get the most of this day since I'm 100% sure I'll be NKed"; now he is "I'll tell you about that come D3 or D4". Still the doctor, still beyond suspicion, but interesting nonetheless.

Well I seem to have luck on my shoulder, so I'm going with either the town got mafia scared to attack me, or a townie is helping me out. So might as well get some of my confidence back, + I'm always a lot better passed the D1 phase. I still haven't figured out much to do in it.

Although nice WIFOM SG7, I think you managed to get the mafia AND town confused now

PMC, I'm not outting the information for now because I see no benefits for town of it, but I DO see benefits for mafia if I decide to protect the same person. But you know, Chap, Saf, Doom, and Ragian are trying to persuade information where it wouldn't be useful unless they were scum.

Safari, is that really what you believe? Outing every bit of information D2? Like I said, if a watcher OR a tracker were anywhere near me or seen me, obviously I didn't go to anyone that died. Otherwise they would've spoken up and killed another mafia, since they did not information given out are useless. Only the mafia would find use to it.

Fasposted by Chap, I can't do that again for it will not work again, PMC is still breathing and so is the target I saved. I don't wish to push my luck again or try for a triple, because even I know where my luck dies. With Mafia taking guesses in the bush they will have a hard time tonight deciding who to hit, for they do not know my target, so for all they know I can target the same person or decide.. to have some fun and go for a different one to save

Although I love how Chap is deciding to side with Leehar on that. Do you not agree cases can be brought up if new evidence is there? I mean look at JG yesterday, you and the ones whom voted him brought it back up with NO new evidence, just things that were discussed 30-40 pages before. It's odd how you're against the same thing you were doing if it doesn't fit your agenda Chap.

Ah, but you see, I'm not asking for information from anyone but you. The reason is simple, you're already outed.

If we have a watcher or a tracker, then since they're currently unknown, then they logically wouldn't reveal information unless they were very sure it would catch at least 1 scum. You are already outed, so it doesn't hurt to reveal who you saved. I say this not because I think your information will lead to a mafia lynch now, but it could help down the road.

Honestly, if we had outed another role with night actions, I would ask the same thing. Busdriver, roleblocker, even vote stealer. Once outed, it's in the best interest of town players to give everyone as much information as possible as long as they're still alive. It makes it more difficult for mafia to fake night actions.

[jak111]

And again, I do not see the benefits of my information considering what happened there's LITERALLY nothing for town to get from it.

The reason I still have a deal with it Doom is that people are still pushing for the information, which right now we need to continue on with the day.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

got caught deep in another game im reading from 74

[shieldgenerator7]

PMC, I'm not outting the information for now because I see no benefits for town of it, but I DO see benefits for mafia if I decide to protect the same person.
...
PMC is still breathing and so is the target I saved.

Also, UNVOTE jak outed it, so not much point in trying to keep the pressure off of him to claim night actions.

-SG7 ( )

Ahm ... he didn't out it. That's not how I read the above. Did you skim it? FoS SG7.

@Rodion, cheers for enlightening me.

@new guy1, where you at?

oh thanks for pointing that out Ragian. I didn't skim it but I misintrepeted it. I read it as "PMC is alive because h eis the target I saved" versus "PMC is alive along with the targetI saved." Thanks for pointing that out. I will not revote Doom cause he has stated he no longer feels the need to pressure jak, but saf is still full-on throttle on his case. VOTE SAF.

Still have to do that reread, probably won't happen tho until after thursday or friday.

-SG7 ( )

[safariguy5]

PMC, I'm not outting the information for now because I see no benefits for town of it, but I DO see benefits for mafia if I decide to protect the same person.
...
PMC is still breathing and so is the target I saved.

Also, UNVOTE jak outed it, so not much point in trying to keep the pressure off of him to claim night actions.

-SG7 ( )

Ahm ... he didn't out it. That's not how I read the above. Did you skim it? FoS SG7.

@Rodion, cheers for enlightening me.

@new guy1, where you at?

oh thanks for pointing that out Ragian. I didn't skim it but I misintrepeted it. I read it as "PMC is alive because h eis the target I saved" versus "PMC is alive along with the targetI saved." Thanks for pointing that out. I will not revote Doom cause he has stated he no longer feels the need to pressure jak, but saf is still full-on throttle on his case. VOTE SAF.

Still have to do that reread, probably won't happen tho until after thursday or friday.

-SG7 ( )

*Yawn* case? Full on throttle? Where are you getting this ridiculousness from shield? Where am I voting jak? Where am I suggesting other people vote jak? Please, get a hold of yourself and take a good hard look at what is actually here instead of jumping to conclusions.

And again, I do not see the benefits of my information considering what happened there's LITERALLY nothing for town to get from it.

The reason I still have a deal with it Doom is that people are still pushing for the information, which right now we need to continue on with the day.

Ok then, who do you want to pressure then? I still see this lack of night action a problem, any mafia player can fake a protective role and then say that withholding information is in the best interest of town because you are setting the precedent.

If the information is not very valuable according to you, what's the harm in revealing it. Heck, even if it was very valuable (let's say you protected the person who was targeted for the NK) you would probably still reveal it because it clears one person from being mafia. Information is best kept to yourself when you are still unclaimed. Once claimed, your best bet is to let everyone know. We can fact check claims and night actions later one with it.

[new guy1]

Sorry for not posting in a while. I must say though the thing catching my eye the most is that everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that he said he would reveal it D3 or D4. This is setting off alarms in my head because it is making me wonder how the information is going to help unless he turns up Mafia then it can help screw two over at once, but I am thinking that since he has not been counterclaimed that he is the doctor, at least for now. I support him keeping his information if he sees it fit. I'm going to reread this for errors but if I miss something I'm on my phone so sorry about it.

[jgordon1111]

oooohh

[chapcrap]

I agree with saf about jak revealing the information.

[jak111]

I agree with saf about jak revealing the information.

Wanna know who I think we should pressure Saf, I'm quoting him right at this moment. He's tagging along with you if you didn't notice, he's pretty much a sheep to whatever you say.

Like I said, I'll reveal it all at once D3 or D4, depending when other power roles decide it's time. But for now, if you'll keep your mind from jumping to conclusions, I wish to keep it private to keep the mafia guessing and to decide whether or not I protect the same person.

If you really want to help Saf, the alarm in my head is buzzing all over Chap's posts even though he's careful not to make a major slip, all I can pin on him is how he's trailing the want for information train after I stated why I will not reveal it for today. It's one of those feelings you get when you know something/someone is up to no good, yet having nothing solid to pin onto them.

[DoomYoshi]

It is futile to push for the information. The proper way to play doesn't apply to jak.

[jak111]

The proper way, is there a certain handbook I didn't get when I started? I follow some customs you guys do, but I have my own distinct play style, (Mainly consisting aggressiveness)

[/]

:?: oooohh

OOOOOOOOOOH
I didn't realize anything, this is just a standard paranormal moan

[jgordon1111]

[new guy1]

Im going to go look at the list of players pressuring jak for the night action as I believe they are a good place to start as far as getting a claim as it is unnessesary and they are just side tracking any case that could be made in the time that we have. If you disagree, then sorry but I must say it seems pretty bad to me when we need to find mafia and a possible 3rd party and you guys are all eyeballing our doctor for a night action.

[new guy1]

Nevermind, ghost needs to do a vote count anyways since its been like 2 days, so Ill just wait till thats up .

[Some7hingCLEVER]

this kind of makes me wish I had gotten a mafia role this game so I'd know how accurate these lists everyone's posting are. Either I'd be freakin out like in Night Before Christmas mafia or I'd be laughing my head off like in Power Role Draft.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and VOTE DOOM. I believe jak and his claim and I agree with him about not claiming his night action. If he said who he protected he might not be as effective tonight. Doom is not only one of the people trying to get jak to spill the beans but also announced jak's role to the whole game, which was cummy but swept under the rug. I want a claim from doomyoshi. So far he doesn't seem very town.

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

ragian is derailing the game? haha I don't see how...

-SG7 ( )

fastposted
i love when cases are put togethor in one post it makes my life alot easier.
i believe the doc claim and he shouldnt tell who he protected. and now that you point it out i do see doom is pushing and outed him as well. and with 6 days left im willing to attempt a claim.unvote if needed and vote doom

It's a toss up between the 2, but Vote somethingclever

I can honestly say I'm irritated by people resurrecting cases from 50 gazillion pages ago. It's exactly what happened with lynching jg which just frankly wasted 2 weeks of my life for no reason here, and now again you want to go back to a case that was discussed to death more than a month ago and you didn't have anything to offer at that time? Honestly it's just too scummy for me if people like you are just looking to lynch people a millenium after the scum-tells you're apparently basing your decisions on.

ok this is pretty much what caught my eye...i dont see any reason in saying anything about our doc as ive given my input on that. so what your pretty much saying is if someone seems scummy from THE DAY BEFORE regardless of how many pages it is i dont care if something comes up that makes him look even more scummy then who cares when it was.
and in case you dont see what he did that was new its right here in red. he outed our doc. i honestly didnt mind that he did that but it wasnt a great thing either. and now he wants the docs info? but excuse me is that a case from yesterday? no it is not so your reasoning for voting me is wrong. there was new info to the case does that mean i cannot vote him on this new info? this is what that seems like to me

1.) someone pushes for a certain lynch and is scummy in some peoples eyes
2.) he makes it to the next day and does the same thing looks scummy in peoples eyes and called out on it. swept under the rug
3.) the next day he does the same. do we not question him at this point? or do we let him just get away with it?

[everywhere116]

I agree with saf about jak revealing the information.

Wanna know who I think we should pressure Saf, I'm quoting him right at this moment. He's tagging along with you if you didn't notice, he's pretty much a sheep to whatever you say.

Like I said, I'll reveal it all at once D3 or D4, depending when other power roles decide it's time. But for now, if you'll keep your mind from jumping to conclusions, I wish to keep it private to keep the mafia guessing and to decide whether or not I protect the same person.

To be fair, this is how it works. If someone believes your claim, then they should leave the decision to reveal your (obviously failed) night action to you. If someone does not believe your claim, then pressuring for you to give your night action is the best move, because saf makes a good point: Not revealing your night actions is a perfect way for a scum to claim a power role but not risk getting caught in a lie over night actions.

[safariguy5]

I agree with saf about jak revealing the information.

Wanna know who I think we should pressure Saf, I'm quoting him right at this moment. He's tagging along with you if you didn't notice, he's pretty much a sheep to whatever you say.

Like I said, I'll reveal it all at once D3 or D4, depending when other power roles decide it's time. But for now, if you'll keep your mind from jumping to conclusions, I wish to keep it private to keep the mafia guessing and to decide whether or not I protect the same person.

If you really want to help Saf, the alarm in my head is buzzing all over Chap's posts even though he's careful not to make a major slip, all I can pin on him is how he's trailing the want for information train after I stated why I will not reveal it for today. It's one of those feelings you get when you know something/someone is up to no good, yet having nothing solid to pin onto them.

So what happens if we lose you to a nightkill between now and Day 3/4?

Also, if you're going to reveal the night info, what's the difference between doing it then and doing it now? Unless you're a cop where revealing innocent investigations is not very helpful until endgame, I don't see how that information is more valuable later than it is now. I think we need information now, we may not need it by Day 3 or 4.

[Ragian]

Oi! New guy ... why didn't you reply to this when you did your rereading?

@Ragian- If anything, this puzzled me a bit:

It is supposed to be as you said, Im sorry that I word it differently then you wish, oh wait no Im not.

So "out unnecessary power roles" and "out power roles unnecessarily" is the same? Is that what you're saying? To me you call power roles indifferent instead of saying that we shouldn't out power roles, but semantics aside ...

You find it wierd that I gave reasoning (not outting powerroles) as to why we should limit claiming and then saying Im okay with chap claiming? I said limit, not have none. Why focus on the person I find scummy? Oh I dont know, to get a claim?

1) This is what you said:

When talking about chapcrap, I dont think he looks particularly scummy but I will keep an eye on him and would not be against a claim from him.

2) I found it weird that you voted for the first guy you mentioned when you also said that you wouldn't want too many claims. Besides you said that you DIDN'T find him particularly scummy. If you want to limit the claims, why don't you want someone you DO find particularly scummy to be pressured for a claim instead?

[ghostly447]

Official Simplified Vote Count

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch


ChapCrap – Jak111, Doomyoshi, Rodion
New Guy1 – Everywhere, Ragian
DoomYoshi – S7C, Everywhere
S7C – Leehar
Safariguy – SG7

Deadline: 5/20/2012 9pm EST.

[Djfireside]

Just to note in the hospital and will post up tonight when home just marking quickly

[everywhere116]

Well I can tell you that I don't have two votes, ghost.