Playing with a RL friend in a standard game without telling

[Arc Pro]

I've been in this situation a few times and i'll say it clear here, i'm not against people playing with their real-life friend but is it fair for 2 people who know each other well to play in a standard game without telling others?
Mainly in FOG-mode on as you don't see what they are doing,they can leave their borders lightly defended or pretend to attack each other's defenseless territories.
Because no rocket science needed, when u know someone personally u won't tend to attack him/her as you would attack others and most of the time the game ends being either of these players to be the winner.

Is it considered Secret Diplomacy?

[chapcrap]

Simply knowing each other in RL isn't secret diplomacy when you play together. Talking about the game outside of the game chat is secret diplomacy though. It would be hard to prove that was happening though. If you think something fishy is going on, you can always post in the C&A Forum (viewforum.php?f=5) or talk to the C&A Mods (memberlist.php?mode=group&g=192851).

If I were playing with a RL friend, I wouldn't announce, because I wouldn't be cheating and all it would do is arouse suspicion unnecessarily.

[DiM]

secret diplomacy is impossible to prove. unless the persons involve admit their secret diplomacy or plan things in a public manner (via wall messages or forum posts) it is impossible to say 100% what is secret diplomacy and what is poor play or lack of fair play.

i just finished a 4p game where at some point i was the leader. i had more troops, more bonuses and a better position. at that point one player (A) decided to help another (B) and from that point on A attacked only me, protected B's borders wherever he could, moved his troops out of B's way wherever B needed the terits. as it turns out A and B admitted to be friends, they are regular doubles partners and have hundreds of games together. secret diplomacy? i'm sure it is. can it be proven? i'm sure it can't.

maybe if it is done on a regular basis and there were plenty of games where one player clearly advantages the other a punishment could be given. bot for 1 or a few games he can simply claim he had a bad strategy.

the only thing to do is foe and move on.

[deathcomesrippin]

I play regularly with a few RL friends, and there have been a few times I have accidentally created standard games instead of team games (which we usually play). I wont declare, but I also never take it easy on RL friends. I love beating my buddies. Even to the detriment of actually winning the game at times.

[Lindax]

....when u know someone personally u won't tend to attack him/her as you would attack others....

Whether that's true or not, the same could be said about clan mates, for example.

Lx

[Arc Pro]

Well if this kind of "cheating" is tolerated so why should I not give a try,I might just catch up with those games I lost like this lol

I'll invite a friend,tell him to join a standard game (preferably FOG mode where We'll able to mislead the other players),we'll share what we can see, we'll choose our bonus area strategically where our borders would be defenseless so that we can focus our troops on other fronts,we eliminate the other players one by one, we'll attack each other from time to time to avoid any suspicion and like this winning won't be a problem.
Oh and playing terminator won't be a bad idea as we would share the points.
To prove this is mission Impossible,i'll just say it was my strategy not to attack the other strong player as it would just allow the others to grow up while we weaken ourselves..

So is it fair if we all play like this and let it go?

[Evil Semp]

Well if this kind of "cheating" is tolerated so why should I not give a try,I might just catch up with those games I lost like this lol

I'll invite a friend,tell him to join a standard game (preferably FOG mode where We'll able to mislead the other players),we'll share what we can see, we'll choose our bonus area strategically where our borders would be defenseless so that we can focus our troops on other fronts,we eliminate the other players one by one, we'll attack each other from time to time to avoid any suspicion and like this winning won't be a problem.
Oh and playing terminator won't be a bad idea as we would share the points.
To prove this is mission Impossible,i'll just say it was my strategy not to attack the other strong player as it would just allow the others to grow up while we weaken ourselves..

So is fair if we all play like this and let it go?

No it is not.

Rather than saying I will cheat also take the high road. If you really believe they cheated do a C&A report. Give details, round number, what actions made you believe it was secret diplomacy. I challenge you to provide some evidence of cheating and file a complaint.

Nothing like standing there drawing attention to yourself. You posted this in the forum. Now when or if you get a friend to play and their is a complaint against you all they have to do is refer to this thread to influence those that make decisions about cheating.

[Arc Pro]

What if they can't even prove he/she is my friend? like many said it's hard to prove.
Well,I was just being sarcastic here..I said all of these because of this injustice that's going on and on but we can't do much about it and it was also a response to DIM's comment

the only thing to do is foe and move on.

In one game I provided proof that 2guys knew each other and that they were using tactics like if they were playing double game to protect each other..and they started to be on the defensive that im lying, blinded by the FOG mode and when I provided the proof (they self claimed they knew each other from another of their game chat) one of them started to insult me, calling me b**ch etc... and in this game it was like I was the only one who cared about this..the other 5players were like "let it be,I don't care if they are having secret diplomacy".

If I were to play with friends that would be in double/triple games anyway. Playing like this in standard game is too easy to win to the detriment of others unfortunately.

[DiM]

as i said before if it is a one time occurrence it's impossible to prove secret diplomacy.
i was recently in a game where i'm confident secret diplomacy existed.
to prove my point that for one time occurrences nothing can be done, i'll file a C&A report and i'll keep you informed on the outcome.

[Arc Pro]

as i said before if it is a one time occurrence it's impossible to prove secret diplomacy.
i was recently in a game where i'm confident secret diplomacy existed.
to prove my point that for one time occurrences nothing can be done, i'll file a C&A report and i'll keep you informed on the outcome.

No worry..never filed a C&A or know how effective it is..hope is goes well for you and bad for them =D
But my situation is least than yours and I found out about it early game and already eliminated one of the dude..I would have been really pissed if I were in your situation though..

[Kraular]

i did not support you because i see nothing suspicious but they have played A LOT game together
and for some one so work for this game should be no problem for him to take a look at this game and see have they play to find out if the are team worker or not
but playing a lot game together do not means they are doing some think wrong

[Kaskavel]

I avoid (I may even have never done so) playing flat rate-no spoils with a friend for obvious reasons. But I have no problem in most escalating type of games. It is more or less obvious if I have to attack my friend or the other player. But in flat rates...you may unintentionaly cheat...

[agentcom]

There is an intermediate form of non-punishment that is useful in these situations. A game that arouses suspicion, but does not rise to the level of provable SD can be "NOTED." Then if it keeps happening people can get punished. I think there's some baseless cynicism here. The fact that SD is HARD to prove does not mean that it's IMPOSSIBLE, even in cases where there isn't evidence like PMs or Wall Posts. I've seen SD cases that have banned certain players from playing together because in reading the Game Logs it became apparent that there was collusion going on across multiple games. I've also seen cases of more severe punishment, I believe.

To avoid any charges of C&A, one can either limit their non-team games played with friends, create private games where players are aware that two or more opponents are friends, or just make damn sure that you aren't cheating. In the end, most cases of cheating will become apparent given a large enough sample of games. This may let the small fish walk free, but if someone is systematically abusing this, it will probably be uncovered if someone points it out (in C&A).

[SirSebstar]

There is an intermediate form of non-punishment that is useful in these situations. A game that arouses suspicion, but does not rise to the level of provable SD can be "NOTED." Then if it keeps happening people can get punished. I think there's some baseless cynicism here. The fact that SD is HARD to prove does not mean that it's IMPOSSIBLE, even in cases where there isn't evidence like PMs or Wall Posts. I've seen SD cases that have banned certain players from playing together because in reading the Game Logs it became apparent that there was collusion going on across multiple games. I've also seen cases of more severe punishment, I believe.

To avoid any charges of C&A, one can either limit their non-team games played with friends, create private games where players are aware that two or more opponents are friends, or just make damn sure that you aren't cheating. In the end, most cases of cheating will become apparent given a large enough sample of games. This may let the small fish walk free, but if someone is systematically abusing this, it will probably be uncovered if someone points it out (in C&A).

+1

[Catarah]

why the hell would i let friends or clanmates get off easy? if anything, people i know should be hit harder, because winning from them means more to me then winning from some random guys.

and secret diplomacy is found out about often enough. sure, playing one game together wont necessarily get you found out, but if you repeatedly try it, you can be certain you'll eventually get hit by the banhammer. ive seen it happen a lot in C&A.