un-fricken-believable!!!

[Nephilim]

lol, heavycola was rite on, jay uttered a kneejerk ridicule of the ACLU that obviously stems from his own religious biases (that, or he did it b/c rush told him to)

Obviously you need an explanation too. The ACLU is supposed to stand for The American Civil Liberties Union. Yet they have been silent on this segregation of the prom. Why? Because their main focus is to attack Christianity. The ACLU is a joke and one that's not even funny. They are there fighting to get a Christmas tree taken down in a public place but turn a blind eye to the racial segregation of that school. You can continue to make snide remarks directed at me, its not like its a surprise or that you are the first to do it. It is expected. Continue with your bias against people of faith, like Heavy.....I really don't care. Just at least educate yourself before posting nonsense.

no, buddy, i don't need an explanation, i understand the point. you made a kneejerk reaction to this issue, somehow managing to work in a religiously biased insult to the ACLU where they had not been mentioned. you could have made a potentially infinite number of remarks to this story of racism; you chose to say something about the ACLU. that is a bit odd, and possibly an indication that you are unstable, obsessed w/ people that you view as your opponents. it's known as paranoia, and it's not healthy.

i don't have a bias against people of faith, i am one myself. i just like arguing w/ blockheads.....maybe i'm unstable too

[Vincent M]

lets give everyone knives before entering the prom

[heavycola]

lol, heavycola was rite on, jay uttered a kneejerk ridicule of the ACLU that obviously stems from his own religious biases (that, or he did it b/c rush told him to)

Obviously you need an explanation too. The ACLU is supposed to stand for The American Civil Liberties Union. Yet they have been silent on this segregation of the prom. Why? Because their main focus is to attack Christianity. The ACLU is a joke and one that's not even funny. They are there fighting to get a Christmas tree taken down in a public place but turn a blind eye to the racial segregation of that school.

No jay i understood what you meant, i just thought it was a strange and slightly paranoid reaction. An admittedly backwards school takes a positive step towards desegregation - what is the ACLU supposed to do? Condemn it? And why mention them at all? Because they are, IYO, anti-christian? And what does this story have to do with religion? It was a weird, kneejerk reaction from you, that's all.

[2dimes]

cheers, meggy, i certainly did not mean to downplay race problems in the south or the US as a whole. the issue should never be elided, racism is inhuman and morally repugnant.

i meant to say: someone asked (i think heavycola) if segregation is still a fact of life in the south. as a southerner with some concern that folks don't view us as backwards and ignorant, i tried to say that besides gentrification (the geographical segregation you speak of), there are not a lot of examples of segregation still in effect.

Again my perspective is rose colored from having the fortune to have grown up on the tail end of when Canada was a wonderfull place circa 1970s.

But to me a single example is too many. I guess the short answer to "is it still a fact of life there?" would be yes, a little.

P.S. I'm unstable.

Don't worry I'm not bagging on the south or even the US in general.

Canada is still an OK place to live but it is sad that now it sucks compared to how great it used to be. I can't be proud and patriotic anymore. One of the things that's degraded here, much to my dissmay, is the public concept of smug superiority in attitude toward the 'mericans.

Sure I appreciate being treated better as a tourist but, I don't understand why Canadians would want to fight with what's been such a good nieghbor all last century, by putting them down. Pretending the average American is any different from the average Canadian aside from the possibility that they might be armed in a city is crap.

Just put that out there so you don't think that's what I was up to.

[Nephilim]

cheers, meggy, i certainly did not mean to downplay race problems in the south or the US as a whole. the issue should never be elided, racism is inhuman and morally repugnant.

i meant to say: someone asked (i think heavycola) if segregation is still a fact of life in the south. as a southerner with some concern that folks don't view us as backwards and ignorant, i tried to say that besides gentrification (the geographical segregation you speak of), there are not a lot of examples of segregation still in effect.

Again my perspective is rose colored from having the fortune to have grown up on the tail end of when Canada was a wonderfull place circa 1970s.

But to me a single example is too many. I guess the short answer to "is it still a fact of life there?" would be yes, a little.

P.S. I'm unstable.

Don't worry I'm not bagging on the south or even the US in general.

Canada is still an OK place to live but it is sad that now it sucks compared to how great it used to be. I can't be proud and patriotic anymore. One of the things that's degraded here, much to my dissmay, is the public concept of smug superiority in attitude toward the 'mericans.

Sure I appreciate being treated better as a tourist but, I don't understand why Canadians would want to fight with what's been such a good nieghbor all last century, by putting them down. Pretending the average American is any different from the average Canadian aside from the possibility that they might be armed in a city is crap.

Just put that out there so you don't think that's what I was up to.

i'm so proud of you 2dimes, i had no idea you could write complete sentences with coherent thought behind them. all the other posts i've seen are silly little one liners. maybe i'm thinking of another stache, idk....

i dig what you're saying, but.....you still sound like you are bagging on the south or the us. when you say "i just think one example is too many," you imply that down here we have some segregation, but it's not that much and we can bear with it. thinking southerners and americans hate racism, and would agree that any is too much. it goes w/o saying, so when you say it, you sound like you're trying to draw a line between yourself and others with backward views on race. the issue is the degree or amount of segregation; using the discussion for trite moral pronouncements.....you're preaching to the choir, and to me it comes off as pious posing

also, to say that one example in rural georgia makes segregation a fact of life in the south.....friend, that's just ridiculous.

[wicked]

The south sucks. And I can say that b/c I lived there for awhile. I will say though there is a much higher percentage of blacks in the south than probably anywhere else I've been, especially the PAC NW!! And at least in the Raleigh area, they bus kids around trying to create a better "mix", often to the detriment of the kid (who may have to spend 2+ hours on a bus everyday!). Even w/o bussing, the south has better segregation just b/c the exposure rate is higher when compared to somewhere like Seattle.

[2dimes]

Yeah, I think I'm trying to bag on the "one example" and it's difficult to do that without by default bagging on where ever it happens.

I think racism exists everywhere there is more than one race present. It's just a matter of how much it's denied or hidden by those present, some places it's not talked about, unfourtunately that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I personally have not been exposed to it as much in my adult life partially due to the fact that publicly racial diversity, coupled with complete tolorance, has become an important issue here and partially because I grew out of the party crowd. (Red neck, sort of racist in denile is a pretty common theme for some here.)

Therefore it's publicly taboo to make racial slurs and jokes. It doesn't change the dynamics of racism. It used to be common for a mixed race crowd to tell racist jokes here. They were just that 'jokes'. You still had racists and non-racists but you could tell who was who because they didn't hide it. Now it's much more difficult to tell because you could work with one and it just doesn't come up unless they think you're one too.

I worked with an actual white supremisist for a while about five years ago and had no idea until someone else told me, on a different job a couple of years later.

So because I have not been exposed to it for so long, a couple of weeks ago when a co-worker started spouting what years ago would have been just harmless name calling I got kind of emotional about it. To some people saying "all them black guys are lazy." would have been nothing but it bothered me. It might have been a factor that one of the black guys is my buddy and another is a real nice guy but still.

We all have prejudices it's inherent and sometimes to repress that breeds mild racism in my opinion.

i'm so proud of you 2dimes, i had no idea you could write complete sentences with coherent thought behind them. all the other posts i've seen are silly little one liners. maybe i'm thinking of another stache, idk....

No that's me. It's partly my personality which comes off diferent on the interweb because of the extra little filters we put on things we read. and partly an act.

[wiggybowler]

wow everyone here has a lot to say.

[Vincent M]

well I believe .............

[hecter]

Well I believe that f*ck THE SOUTH!!!

[wiggybowler]

well I believe .............

[glide]

Bigotry is a horrible fact of life. And yes, it's still around, especially down south in the states. But.......until the religious freaks can solve the FATHER BAD TOUCH problem......shut the hell up about anything else. Nuns burying babies bodies in walls was bad enough.....yeah.....you've got a real proud platform to preach from! Go clean up yer own backyard first padre.

[ritz627]

lol, heavycola was rite on, jay uttered a kneejerk ridicule of the ACLU that obviously stems from his own religious biases (that, or he did it b/c rush told him to)

Obviously you need an explanation too. The ACLU is supposed to stand for The American Civil Liberties Union. Yet they have been silent on this segregation of the prom. Why? Because their main focus is to attack Christianity. The ACLU is a joke and one that's not even funny. They are there fighting to get a Christmas tree taken down in a public place but turn a blind eye to the racial segregation of that school. You can continue to make snide remarks directed at me, its not like its a surprise or that you are the first to do it. It is expected. Continue with your bias against people of faith, like Heavy.....I really don't care. Just at least educate yourself before posting nonsense.

Yes yes, the ACLU hates christianity. They want to destroy it right? Its a christmas tree, who the hell cares? Sure it hasn't done what its supposed to sometimes, but there's a lot more important things to look at than taking down a christmas tree for in a public area as a "i hate christianity" act. Honestly, where has your brain gone. Its a christmas tree, let it go. You want religous equality? They're giving it to you.

[ritz627]

Well I believe that f*ck THE SOUTH!!!

Haha. Yea, screw them and their rascist ways. Seriously.

[jay_a2j]

An admittedly backwards school takes a positive step towards desegregation - what is the ACLU supposed to do? Condemn it?

Um how about DO SOMETHING about it years ago????? It's 2007! It seems to me that this is a far greater "civil liberties" issue than a Christmas tree! And yes, I spun it in a political view.... sue me...I happen to love exposing the hypocrisy of liberal establishments.

[Backglass]

I happen to love exposing the hypocrisy of liberal establishments.

Because we all know there is zero hypocrisy in modern religion.

[hecter]

Yes, because liberal organizations have knowledge of EVERY SINGLE bad thing that goes on in the US. You just hear about the things that they do in certain area's, such as the Christmas tree incident you keep bringing up. They can't stop ALL of them, it would be impossible. And that was a rural area, were there aren't many people, let alone liberals. HOW would they POSSIBLY find out about that? Honestly.

[2dimes]

Wow you guys sure are upset that Jay is right.

This supposed "civil liberties" organisation is dropping the ball big time not helping to remove racial segregation while getting all up in people's face about their pagan inspired fertility trees.

Right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness my eye. That should include protecting my rights to be religious in public regardless of how missguided it is as long as I'm not harming anyone.

You'll get my festivus pole when you pry it from my cold dead hand you liberal dogs!

[CrazyAnglican]

i certainly agree that gentrification is still at work and a major problem. i think you've hit on something very key: it's effect on education. if minority folks live in certain sections, they will attend schools in those sections. and those schools almost always end up much worse than white schools. and i can tell you from experience, race-based policies ARE imposed by the government and enforced/enacted by school administrators. there are racists influencing these groups from within or without.

i would also say that ghettos exist every in the states: northern and western cities as well as southern or midwestern. my main intention was to say that from my experience segregation does not appear to be a southern phenomenon indicating hideous, pervasive racism, and in fact in some measurable ways, the south is no more segregationist than the rest of the union. i did not extend my comments to race relations in general, and i'm sorry if i appeared to downplay racism and racist policies that still exist.

Sorry I'm on my soapbox here, forgive me if I come off too strong on this issue:

Did everyone miss that this was a segregated school. The policy of having two proms was enacted by private citizens not the school or school system. The school system has no control over what the parents, who are admittedly screwed up and misguided in this instance, decide to do.

I've been an educator, in Georgia, for ten years and I haven't seen the first policy that I could identify as racist. Every school that I have worked for has placed a premium on teaching the kids as much as humanly possible. Race doesn't enter in to our discussions at all. When a kid comes into my classroom he or she is a kid, plain and simple. Public schools accept every student in their district and must do so by law in the U.S.A. Stating that schools in predominantly minority areas are somehow inferior doesn't hold water. Look up the Learning Focused Schools Program and their 90/90/90 schools ( 90% minority/ 90% free & reduced lunches/ 90% meet or exceed state standards on testing). The people who work in these areas are every bit as committed to their jobs and their kids as any other educator.

http://www.ed.gov/news/newsletters/extr ... /0217.html

[Nephilim]

Wow you guys sure are upset that Jay is right.

This supposed "civil liberties" organisation is dropping the ball big time not helping to remove racial segregation while getting all up in people's face about their pagan inspired fertility trees.

Right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness my eye. That should include protecting my rights to be religious in public regardless of how missguided it is as long as I'm not harming anyone.

You'll get my festivus pole when you pry it from my cold dead hand you liberal dogs!

fair point. but my issue w/ jay, as stated, is that he brings up the ACLU for no reason whatsoever, other than he has been trained by rightist propaganda hogs to hate that organization. he has a paranoid obsession with "liberal" activist groups.

another point to throw in: how many worthy things does the ACLU do that we never hear about? i don't know, cause i never hear about it, i'm just asking. instead, all we hear about are episodes like the Xmas tree thing. maybe they're fighting racism in the 3 counties around this prom event; we don't know, so flying off the handle is not appropriate. also, any organization has limited resources, isn't it kind of wild to go off on them for not handling this case? do we even know that they aren't involved?

this conversation has gotten pretty ridiculous

[2dimes]

Wow you guys sure are upset that Jay is right.

This supposed "civil liberties" organisation is dropping the ball big time not helping to remove racial segregation while getting all up in people's face about their pagan inspired fertility trees.

Right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness my eye. That should include protecting my rights to be religious in public regardless of how missguided it is as long as I'm not harming anyone.

You'll get my festivus pole when you pry it from my cold dead hand you liberal dogs!

fair point. but my issue w/ jay, as stated, is that he brings up the ACLU for no reason whatsoever, other than he has been trained by rightist propaganda hogs to hate that organization. he has a paranoid obsession with "liberal" activist groups.

Meh, he's like that.

[Nephilim]

Wow you guys sure are upset that Jay is right.

This supposed "civil liberties" organisation is dropping the ball big time not helping to remove racial segregation while getting all up in people's face about their pagan inspired fertility trees.

Right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness my eye. That should include protecting my rights to be religious in public regardless of how missguided it is as long as I'm not harming anyone.

You'll get my festivus pole when you pry it from my cold dead hand you liberal dogs!

fair point. but my issue w/ jay, as stated, is that he brings up the ACLU for no reason whatsoever, other than he has been trained by rightist propaganda hogs to hate that organization. he has a paranoid obsession with "liberal" activist groups.

Meh, he's like that.

so you cut out the rest of my points and don't respond to them?

[Backglass]

Um how about DO SOMETHING about it years ago????? It's 2007! It seems to me that this is a far greater "civil liberties" issue than a Christmas tree!

The difference my dear deluded jay, is that the parents organized the proms themselves...off school grounds and without public funds. If they also wanted to organize christmas tree parties, baptism festivals and confessional carnivals off school grounds and with private funds, the ACLU would not interfere.

BUT...when it's public money at the public school...thats where the difference lies.

Please attempt to comprehend this.

[joeyjordison]

? i didn't think anywhere would still b doin stuff like this!

well at least they have finally broken the tradition.

america is so big i just can't understand some of the remoter places. at least in england you don't get too many remote sects doin wierd stuff like this.

[2dimes]

so you cut out the rest of my points and don't respond to them?

Yeah basically.

I wandered off to play risk, buy some chicken for supper and post some of those terrific 'brain light one liners', but I suppose since you miss me and I'm cooped up here with a sore groin, I can babble on and write a nice essay to respond to the rest of that one for you.

another point to throw in: how many worthy things does the ACLU do that we never hear about?

Possibly several, perhaps none, as the organisation seems to not be what it claims. It's all a secret that only the highest level masons actually know. [/bogusconspericytalkmokery]

i don't know, cause i never hear about it, i'm just asking. instead, all we hear about are episodes like the Xmas tree thing. maybe they're fighting racism in the 3 counties around this prom event; we don't know, so flying off the handle is not appropriate. also, any organization has limited resources, isn't it kind of wild to go off on them for not handling this case? do we even know that they aren't involved?

So yeah I didn't bother to respond because I agree, I am not aware of what they are or are not doing. The only reason I heard about the tree thing is because of this thread.

Thank you Jay for bringing it to our attention with your "jerking knee".

If everyone thinks the resources should be used to battle the evil of christmas I suppose we should join or at least send funds.

this conversation has gotten pretty ridiculous

Yeah again I agree, that's why I made up that thing about the tree. I'm not particularly even a fan of bringing trees inside my house. Especially if it's real trees and you have to murder the poor thng by cutting it off it's roots then putting it in the bowl of water temporary life support system to keep it around in possible pain for a month.

Instead of staying on track and talking about racism, being backwards and something that rightly shocks us to hear it exists at all anywhere, because we're so advanced in civilisation and being evil should have been taught out of us by now. Though again that's some eutopic ideal a few of us cling to because it would be so nice. Some need to participate in the equivalent of racism, religious persicution. Yeah that might be an exaggeration but it's kind of what is happining.

Do I agree with Jay, no. I am appalled that he would refuse health insurance to someone just because that person chooses to have sex with another person of the same gender. That is persecution based on sexuality. Also just as bad as racism.

My eutopia is never going to happen though because we all go back to bickering and trying to jockey for position on this crazy spinning rock.

I'm ready to ardently support Jay or whomever's right to have a fertility tree. Even in public, put one up in the school or where I work, right in front of city hall. I am also all for my city taxes decorating trees outside with lights and balls. I don't mind Christmas being, "the season to be jolly."

Yes at my house we set up a smaller fake tree, because we have kids and I remember liking them trees when I was a kid.

There's the rub for me.

I remember trees being set up all over and how everyone enjoyed it. It didn't matter that some people were muslim or hindu or sikh they may not have participated in the religious aspect of it but it was a celebration where everyone was nice for a month. Including athiests and :gasp: even them pesky christians.

Oh well this probably doesn't count for anything because it was the tail end of Canada being a wonderfull place to live. Poeple were extra nice during that season, the rest of the year out side of the work place people were fairly nice.

I also remember sitting in the library with most the kids in my elementary school in the early 1970s, some of the kids that were of other religions were excused for the day, because some teachers spent the morning telling us what christmas represented.

They explained the biblical account of the birth of Christ. The manger stuff in the winter with the shepards and the wise men, angels, the baby Jesus. It was a part of the whole thing at that time and it was fun. I remember everyone being happy, and these were my peers so I knew they didn't have the capacity to fake it at the time. Everyone pretended to agree that christmas should be a time to give to others and it had become too commercial. This was acting because we all wanted to go home and unwrap our toys.

I hear now it may not have even been acurate. Instead of having fun and enjoying it people need to fight about the details.

it couldn't have been winter, the shepards would have had flocks in the spring, etc.

Again ridiculous things just to ruin an enjoyable time and a good thing. (They might as well sing "God hates the world" while they're at it.)

We did not have to hear about the parents that were so enraged as to form a group to disband the whole thing, because it was so terrible to try to indoctrinate little kids. Though they must have been at work because my brother was only 4 years behind me in school and he didn't have to endure the torture.

so flying off the handle is not appropriate.

Well why not? This Christmas thing, must be stopped, think of the children!

But guess what, of the people in my grade forced to endure some wacko teachers sharing thier stories, no one was brain washed or jumped up yelling and speaking in pretend tounges. In fact several of the people I knew all through highschool and briefly into adulthood. Most I would presume are athiests, I never bothered asking religious beliefs. Come to think of it they are no different from people 4 years younger than them. Now that we're all older they seem much more like they are the same age. My wife is 9 years younger than me and I can usually have conversations with people her age or my parents age on the same levels. I just don't buy how we were brain washed by religious porpaganda.

Some of the more ardent opposers of the church stuff on this forum tell of being survivors of it. Do I believe they had a hard time with some confused people trying to brain wash them? I have no reason to not believe them, so yes.

I know native aboriginal first nations people of Canada, so if you want to get back on this thread's topic of racism and add in the horrors, of what large organised churches have done in the past to little kids, I'm ready for that. But when my public school did it they made it fun.

So contrary to what I've been told on this site of the dangers of brain washing young children with christmas/bible talk all our little brains were left intact to make up our own minds later in life, regarding all the origins of the universe etc.

Wether we were instantly formed out of dirt, or it took the sun shining in a pool of various molicules, billions upon billions of years to cause us to evolve into what must be the perfect human, because evolution is now going backwards as we carry on genetic flaws of some of our ancestors.

It takes nine months to go from two cells to a completly functioning human but millions of years to switch from gills to lungs.

Your doctor tells you, "Oh oh, your grandparent had XXXXX well we need to screen you because that's genetic and you'll probably get it." Sounds more like "Devolution".

If natural selection is such an important part of the process, it's being ruined by all the legal requirements for safety. Hard hats at work, seat belts helmets on bikes, re-attaching a penis the guy cut off himself at the pizza place. etc.

Is that better Nephilim? I hope you enjoy this.