Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[Rodion]

Ok, jgordon. In clear English can you explain how you caught me skimming? You requested a modkill because I edited my own post. Now you are accusing me of skimming the fact that I edited my posts?

On the interest of expediting this shitfest of a discussion, I'll explain Gordon's skimming accusation as I believe I understood it.

This is the relevant timeline:

1 - Gordon asks for a modkill on the grounds that you edited a post.
2 - Gordon admits you never edited a post and was just fishing for skimmers.
3 - You post, commenting on the modkill subject without realizing he had already confessed his plot.

Gordon did not accuse you of "skimming the fact that Yoshi did not actually edit his posts", he accused you of "skimming the post in which he declares his gambit" (#2 in the timeline).

But again I invite everyone to not skim and to play the game.

Gordon, I invite you to not skim and to play the game.

My claim is who I am and I picked up on jaks post as soon as he said it and then tried to deflect attention back away from him, "I fight my fights by myself". Better for me to get picked off than lose the doc.

A survivor that is willing to deflect attention away from someone else and unto himself?

Yes, that is how a VT or a minor power role should think. But a survivor?

Safer to lynch me and watch who jumps on to ensure it happens.

Vig is not the best option as you need your watcher looking elsewhere at night.

Survivor suggesting that town lynches him?

I'm having trouble understanding why a survivor would behave the way Jgordon seems to be behaving. Mind explaining what you are trying to accomplish, Gordon?

While I don't get an answer, vote Jgordon. Not on the grounds that "killing a survivor D1 when you have no other leads is good for town" (it is, by the way), but on the grounds that I do not believe his behaviour matches with that of a survivor, thus I think he is fakeclaiming.

I had decided to ask the question first, read the answer and then decide on my vote, but you lost the benefit of the doubt when you made your "guys, don't skim" post and skimmed my questions to you.

[DoomYoshi]

Thank you Rodion.

Ok, jgordon you got me. Skimmer, guilty as charged.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, after reading carefully through all of jgordon's posts (and sending a letter to the Missouri school board that they need to revamp the grammar curriculum) I realized that his vote is on me for declaring jgordons claim.

Now, if one person admits to not having realized the soft claim at the time I declared it, I will let that vote (and others based along the same lines) stand unchallenged.

One final thing:
Jak justifies his defense of jgordon saying he likes to protect town. Jgordon isn't town. Then, jak says he agrees soft claiming is bs, but that it is ok when he does it. Why is soft claiming bs in other cases, but not when you do it jgordon? Once again, you seem immune to your own rules.

[safariguy5]

Y'know, if I had a nickel for every time jgordon uses the word "skimming" in a post, I could probably retire when I'm thirty.

Honestly jgordon, I think the majority of the people here are not skimming. Quoting what someone said and then commenting on it is the best way to provide evidence and reasoning for a case. It's basically like writing an argumentatitive paper. If you want to argue that Romeo was being selfish when he committed suicide, you quote the lines in the play that back up your argument and provide your analysis. 5 paragraph format and whatnot.

That said, you've repeatedly stated that people need to play the game and not skim. Conveniently, this also precludes you really saying anything else. I'm not convinced you're necessarily the best lynch target now, but if we don't find a better target soon, you're definitely a better lynch than a townie.

As for jak's claim, I suppose we have to take what he claimed at face value for now. I suppose it could be a scum fakeclaim to draw out the real town doc (who wisely hasn't said anything) but really only time will tell on that issue.

The larger issue here, and this really applies to both jak and jgordon, is apparently questionable play tied to your role. Saying that you play the game in the same style every game is all well and good, but I would think that the role you have dictate how aggressive/defensive you are. For instance, I personally would play VT a lot more aggressively than I would if I were cop or doc. Because really, the whole point of a VT is to draw fire from mafia. The best way to do that is to act like you're important. The point of cop or doc is to not draw a lot of attention. Even if you're outed, mafia probably can still roleblock or manipulate your role somehow to render you useless.

Not to say that we can't win with the doc claiming early (See Firefly Mafia, note also edoc's reaction there for reference), but it definitely makes it harder for us.

On that note, I will unvote vote shield. He's usually much more talkative than this, and when Rodion posted, Rodion definitely added something tangible to the discussion. shield hasn't said anything productive yet.

[Ragian]

It should read like this, yes? You've been confusing their names before and I hope you're doing it again. Otherwise I'm lost

Ok, after reading carefully through all of jgordon's posts (and sending a letter to the Missouri school board that they need to revamp the grammar curriculum) I realized that his vote is on me for declaring jak's claim.

Now, if one person admits to not having realized the soft claim at the time I declared it, I will let that vote (and others based along the same lines) stand unchallenged.

One final thing:
Jak justifies his defense of jgordon saying he likes to protect town. Jgordon isn't town. Then, jak says he agrees soft claiming is bs, but that it is ok when he does it. Why is soft claiming bs in other cases, but not when you do it jak? Once again, you seem immune to your own rules.

[Ragian]

Last posted:

by dazza2008
Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:39 pm

You mean humour?

by shieldgenerator7
Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:16 pm

is sg7 in here...o ya well then i guess its time i claim

im the sk!!!

what?! I thought you were part of my mafia faction! *checks role PM* Oh, nevermind that was someone else

-SG7 ( )

by crazymilkshake5
Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:59 pm

is joke voting over now? i just received the prob i was looking for,

We already have to claims. One soft claim under no pressure and one survivor under minimal pressure (gordon wasn't at L-2 or anything, was he?). I don't necessarily think that we should get another claim on D1 since it would make it easier for scum to pick and choose during the night, but it's worth noticing that the abovementioned have contributed even less than I have and that their posts are nothing substantial (that's why I put in their last post as a quote too).

I'm not nearly experienced enough to know if a third claim makes sense on D1, but I think it may become a problem for the reason stated above. However, only scum benefits from submarining so perhaps getting a claim from one of them would make sense?

vote dazza

...just went with the one whose post is furthest away.

[dazza2008]

Well I caught up now.

I think we have to believe the doc claim for now at least.

I think depending on what else happens jgordon could be the best lynch.

I have been busy the last few days. Nice of Ragian to vote for me as one of the things that kept me busy was account sitting for him while he was out drinking

[Leehar]

It should read like this, yes? You've been confusing their names before and I hope you're doing it again. Otherwise I'm lost

Ok, after reading carefully through all of jgordon's posts (and sending a letter to the Missouri school board that they need to revamp the grammar curriculum) I realized that his vote is on me for declaring jak's claim.

Now, if one person admits to not having realized the soft claim at the time I declared it, I will let that vote (and others based along the same lines) stand unchallenged.

One final thing:
Jak justifies his defense of jgordon saying he likes to protect town. Jgordon isn't town. Then, jak says he agrees soft claiming is bs, but that it is ok when he does it. Why is soft claiming bs in other cases, but not when you do it jak? Once again, you seem immune to your own rules.

I was wondering about that, it's just an added confusion when we already have so much to go on anyway.

Well I caught up now.

I think we have to believe the doc claim for now at least.

I think depending on what else happens jgordon could be the best lynch.

I have been busy the last few days. Nice of Ragian to vote for me as one of the things that kept me busy was account sitting for him while he was out drinking

I understand your point, but I'd just like to note that you only popped up after being called out on it, just as perhaps rodion appeared after chaps callout.
If you guys are consistent in your activity, then it won't matter, but I really dislike the stuff which shows active submarining intent.

Also, jg, you've already turned up as a survivor (ie not Town), and now you go onto trying to 'trap' all of us of skimming. That really is very unhelpful and if you're always going to play where we need to second-guess your words, I really can't see what use you are to us...

[dazza2008]

I posted just now because I had time to read and catch up. I am an active player I just got a bit busy.

Whenever I fall behind at the end of the week I struggle to catch up at the weekend. I have 2 kids and have to take them to visit their mum and Gran. I catch up on Monday as one of them is at nursery.

Anyway I don't think just voting on people because of when they last posted is good play. Fair enough it it was weeks ago or they have not contributed much at all. I have been contributing.

[jgordon1111]

First rodion is correct on the skimming thing doom.

Second This is the first time ever I have gotten a survivor role,and I prefer town to win. And as always I will take the hit for town to win. Yes I know if I die I dont win. Doesnt have to make sense to you as long as it does to me.

I was not skimming rodion I meant to answer you before,just forgot it at the time.

[Ragian]

Anyway I don't think just voting on people because of when they last posted is good play. Fair enough it it was weeks ago or they have not contributed much at all. I have been contributing.

I find it quite fair to vote someone who I know is active taking my turns, but is not active in here. Also, I can't see where you've been contributing with anything, but in the joke vote stage. Where have you contributed?

[Leehar]

Anyway I don't think just voting on people because of when they last posted is good play. Fair enough it it was weeks ago or they have not contributed much at all. I have been contributing.

I find it quite fair to vote someone who I know is active taking my turns, but is not active in here. Also, I can't see where you've been contributing with anything, but in the joke vote stage. Where have you contributed?

It may be fair, but it is still kinda lame, the guy sits for you and you repay him by voting him on mafia?
I doubt even the twins would stoop to that level

[dazza2008]

Anyway I don't think just voting on people because of when they last posted is good play. Fair enough it it was weeks ago or they have not contributed much at all. I have been contributing.

I find it quite fair to vote someone who I know is active taking my turns, but is not active in here. Also, I can't see where you've been contributing with anything, but in the joke vote stage. Where have you contributed?

What do you want me to say mate? I believe the doc claim. I think there are more known characters who could be the doc but I am not the mod and will not try to guess what he thought when setting the game up.

I believe the survivor claim. I don't think he should be lynched but him being Vigged is a good option and he probably should be lynched if we get near to deadline with no stronger case for lynching.

No other case is standing out to me right now so I will not vote yet. I will keep looking and see what else turns up. I probably should Unvote if I had a vote. Not 100% sure.

But really I don't think I have been that inactive in this game.

[Ragian]

Anyway I don't think just voting on people because of when they last posted is good play. Fair enough it it was weeks ago or they have not contributed much at all. I have been contributing.

I find it quite fair to vote someone who I know is active taking my turns, but is not active in here. Also, I can't see where you've been contributing with anything, but in the joke vote stage. Where have you contributed?

It may be fair, but it is still kinda lame, the guy sits for you and you repay him by voting him on mafia?
I doubt even the twins would stoop to that level

Don't give that too much traction. It's not like he played a million games for me. Also, since I was out but able to contribute, he whould be able to contribute. Besides I know no low.

[Ragian]

Also, your last post was on Thursday. That's not the weekend. I didn't realise your weekends were mega busy. If I had known that I wouldn't have asked you to sit for me. I most sincerely apologise for that.

I might as well unvote too lest everyone thinks I'm a dick. It seems only you and leehar think so at this point (even though I doubt leehar has any right to that since he doesn't know the extent of the sit or anything). That I can handle. Nice pathos, dazza.

[dazza2008]

Also, your last post was on Thursday. That's not the weekend. I didn't realise your weekends were mega busy. If I had known that I wouldn't have asked you to sit for me. I most sincerely apologise for that.

I might as well unvote too lest everyone thinks I'm a dick. It seems only you and leehar think so at this point (even though I doubt leehar has any right to that since he doesn't know the extent of the sit or anything). That I can handle. Nice pathos, dazza.

Yup I think I explained that when I get busy or fall behind near the end of the week I struggle to catch up at the weekend. I probably could have posted if I chose not to sleep or something but I didn't think that was needed since I knew I could catch up today.

Anyway it was not just sitting for you that made me fall behind in the thread it was real life stuff too but I am here now and posting. Shall we just play the game now?

[new guy1]

Caught up, I have homework to do, but I dont feel like doing that so Im just going to play mafia. As for "stooping down" to Ragians level, I understand that he knew dazza was online and might have been able to post, but he should also know that we all have stuff to do in RL and so it doesnt always happen . I would not sit Adam because we are already on shared internet and have mods passing us off, I dont feel like playing games of his (when he has them) and risking a ban . I think ragian was just trying to make a case off of what he knew and so I pardon him nad his supposed disrespectful behavior.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Ok, jgordon. In clear English can you explain how you caught me skimming? You requested a modkill because I edited my own post. Now you are accusing me of skimming the fact that I edited my posts?

I will be honest jgordon. 90% I read but I am forced to ignore because your grasp of English is incomprehensible. I try to find the meaning in what you say, but you talk so much and so poorly that it usually ends up being more effort than it is worth. Right now I still can't understand what you are saying. You didn't catch anyone skimming, from what I saw, most players (including the mod) went back and checked whether or not I edited a post.

this post busts my gut cause he has been told plenty of times what the point of that was so in this post he pretty much digs himself a hole. he did it to see who was skimming i had one read through and i knew that. then you dis him on his english and i can read it fine maybe im on the same level of idiocy he is. except that i wouldnt soft claim doctor at all. so i guess im higher on the inteligence totem pole then he is. anyway i can understand everything. and yes he did catch someone skimming ...YOU you skimmed for pages not knowing what he said when even other people are trying to explain it to you. so for that vote doom

jgordon- i have no clue why you soft claimed doc and its confusing. i dont see your reasoning behind it at all. if you even gave one. you outed one of towns power roles right of the bat and its not gonna help us at all.

jak111-if doom comes up to not be a good candidate to lynch ill vote you because you said that you didnt care if you got killed.

[Ragian]

jgordon- i have no clue why you soft claimed doc and its confusing. i dont see your reasoning behind it at all. if you even gave one. you outed one of towns power roles right of the bat and its not gonna help us at all.

jak111-if doom comes up to not be a good candidate to lynch ill vote you because you said that you didnt care if you got killed.

Who's skimming now?

[SPARTACUS1974]

ok read through all the pages trying not to skim to much

jaks claim i think has to be believed as no one counter claimed the doc but why the claim in the first place he just put a great target on his head ?

For doom he tried his best to make sure that every1 new that jak was the doc and that again does seem scummy to me fos doom

As for jgordon being a survivor has no real use to town he may say he wants town to win but i doubt it i have played in other games with him and he does not like to lose so why tell us to lynch him it makes no sense at all , with this i think its a fake claim trying to make himself not look like a threat .

unvote/vote jgordon

again i am sorry for my lack of posts and it will be like this for the next 3 days i have work at sea and training for the lifeboat i have someone playing my games i hope but if this does cause a problem i can ask the mod to replace me its up to you guys

[Some7hingCLEVER]

jak111- i have no clue why you soft claimed doc and its confusing. i dont see your reasoning behind it at all. if you even gave one. you outed one of towns power roles right of the bat and its not gonna help us at all.

jgordon-if doom comes up to not be a good candidate to lynch ill vote you because you said that you didnt care if you got killed.

Who's skimming now?

[shieldgenerator7]

wow guys I'm really behind.

I'm being kept prisoner on page 14. Could someone please send in a rescue mission?

[jgordon1111]

LOL some7hingclever.

Spartacus you are correct I do like to win

SG7 what?

Thank goodness you are all trying to actually read and catch up.

Fake claim nope. Lynch me yes, vig me no thats just dumb as hell to many chances for something to go wrong or giving up your vig if mafia is able to watch

You will get better info on the lynch.

BTW anyone seen chuck since he managed to slip back into the dark? FOS still on chuck for his accidental mistakes

[jgordon1111]

you were on yesterday chuck and this morning yet no response and nothing to say here after warning me not to BW you,for an FOS. LOL

Come on chuck talk to me or any of us.

[safariguy5]

Hey shield, what exactly are you trying to say? Still not adding to the discussion here. At least the other players have tried to talk about the game, you still haven't said anything useful. My vote stays.