Golden Pantheon - Japanese - Endgame

[Victor Sullivan]

I'm feeling the same way, jonty. I didn't like the way he got onto your lynch wagon yesterday, and the way he's been posting today just increases my suspicion. I can't quite place it.

-Sully

[strike wolf]

That's all well and good but if you're gonna suspect me than at least have the courtesy of giving me a charge I can defend against.

[freezie]

Alright, I wrapped my head around a case that I'd like to present. Before that, however, I need to ask someone a question. Whatever the response is, the case will be presented anyway:

Thegeneral, who did you investigate last night? I know you didn't want to answer that question yesterday, and I want to know if your stance changed today.

[TheGeneral2112]

I investigated everywhere last night and learned that he is not sided with the mafia... Oddly enough, he is dead and cult.

1) He was recruited last night after my invest.
2) I'm useless/partially useless. (Naive or can only see sk/mafia but not cult)
3) Driver is messing my shiz up.
4) I can't think of anything else.

Also, I need a watcher on me (if there is one) instead of a doc. If there is a cult, I'm sure OMFG he's culted accusations will fly pretty soon **coughcoughstrikecoughcough** and I would love to prevent that.

[jonty125]

That's all well and good but if you're gonna suspect me than at least have the courtesy of giving me a charge I can defend against.

I'll try over the weekend.

[edocsil]

Lets keep this moving along.

[pancakemix]

Alright, I've looked back and the only person I found to be scummy was TheGeneral. He pushed really hard for the jonty lynch following his claim. The only problem I see with pursuing that case is, well, that he's the town cop. But is he still the TOWN cop? That remains to be seen, and is not really something I want to test.

By the way, anyone have any idea what basis there would be in Japanese mythology for something cultlike?

[freezie]

-not sided with the mafia- ?

Considering we got a cult, I doubt a mafia would be likely here aswell. So, -not sided with the mafia- doesn't say much..

On with the real case ( which is slightly less convincing since I missplaced a specific post..But still, holds it's weight as far as I am concerned ) :

Vote: Strike wolf

First of all..let's look at some of general's actions:

God, I'm clear and people still don't fucking listen to me...

Lets make sure to keep this moving here.

kk, VOTE JONTY

PEOPLE LISTEN TO THE CLEAR

kkthxbaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

This is day 2. We know there is a cult. You already claimed cop. You're a -very- highly candidate to be recruited, as it really makes the town think twice about getting you. And it prevents you from calling out the cult leader if you're recruited. The very basis you emphasis not once, but twice, that you are cleared makes me beleive the very opposite. You're not cleared. Nowhere near now.

A scuffle, a shout. Someone watched, someone listened. What had happened? What were the questions, what were the answers?

Dawn came and all were still alive. Warily the gods returned to their council. Why had no one died? They had all gone to rest assuming one of them would not return. They supposed it was best not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

The gods looked at each other and began to talk. They knew that there were enemies among them but who would they be? Few gods recognized each other, but by now there were a few more know faces.

It is now D2 11 alive 6 to lynch.

AHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Doc save FTW!!!!!

I know, I know. This is a common post after a night with no kills. However, it could be a roleblock, a jailkeeper, a bulletproof, or, lo and behold, a cult. With what we know of the setup right now, it's less likely there is a possible doc. And I think you knew it start of day 2, as, like I said, I beleive you to have been recruited night 1. Everywhere on night 2.

To all who are asking, I was not roleblocked. I learned that someone is not sided with the mafia. I'm not outting the invest yet, as it is pretty confirmed that we have a doc. If a watcher was watching me last night, please don't out what you saw. Even if you got both the doc and a mafia, that would mean outting the doc and I really don't want that shit.

Of course, that would out your cult leader as soon as you died, too.


Starting from this, where general wanted to keep his investigations secret for now ( which isn't that much of a bad thing, really )
we get strike starting to act very strangely:

Yeah could be role block could be doc protection. So General?

Same thing I said for general, assuming there is a doc/roleblock, but nothing else. I am having a slight feeling that these 2 knew what really was happening. But, more or less the point. The real thing here is that he asked, without doubts, general to claim his investigation. Then, very shortly, he changes his whole mind about it:

So General, why won't you tell us who you investigated? I don't see how it could hurt the town, only help.

*shrugs* I don't see the harm in keeping it behind the bars for now. As long as the person isn't considered to be at risk of any lynch, I don't really feel there's strong to make them claim.

Alright, more or less a change. But he's very quick in accepting that when he didn't doubt it beforehand.

This is Strike's vote on jonty for the lynch, end of day 2:

Well I hope I'm right because I have every reason to believe that your claim is real Sound...I have every reason to doubt Jonty's alliance.

vote Jonty

AS pointed out before, your reasons are...well, yea. But you explained that already. Just pointing this out here.

This, however:

Either way I'm not gonna push a case on the cop on the principle that he COULD have been recruited. Just putting it forward. Also a recruited cult is the lowest on my rung to lynch. Much rather find the killer (assuming there is one) and the recruiter.

No one ever spoke of starting a case on the general. Granted, I just did it. And I will not agree to a general lynch tonight. The recruiter is so much more important right now. I also don't even want to find the killer right now. Recruiter above all else.

And I beleive him to be you.

Anyway, remember I said I had reasons to beleive General not to be a cop to start with? :

- Trying to get the cop out for his recruiter to recruit him, assuming the recruiter started with a single cultist ( if there is no other major factions in game ) -

reinforced in this post:

DO NOT LYNCH STRIKE

I am not confident enough for a lynch. My case was absolute shit and concocted entirely out of fear for my own life. Now that I have outted myself, I don't want Strike to be lynched.

Day 1. General isn't fond of random lynches, but in going to a defense against the person he accused, on day 1, and telling everyone NOT to lynch him..I dunno.



Anyway..Most of this isn't rock solid...Bottom line, strike's behavious has been eratic and strange since day 2.

[MeDeFe]

No one ever spoke of starting a case on the general. Granted, I just did it. And I will not agree to a general lynch tonight. The recruiter is so much more important right now. I also don't even want to find the killer right now. Recruiter above all else.

To be fair, SW himself first brought up the possibility of General having been recruited on Night 1 already, Victor said he thinks it likely. Safari was a bit more cautious. SW said he wasn't going to push it. Frankly, I'm open to the possibility myself. An investigative result of "not sided with the mafia" is really very vague and would technically include serial killers as well as townies. But even if he has been recruited he's a low-priority target compared to the cult leader.

[jonty125]

I couldn't find much but this is what I found if someone else would like to have a look through strike's posts.

I think Freezie gets the point. If I can get someone to alter their behavior without calling out their name that strongly suggests to me that they have reason to believe someone might become suspicious of them through the game. For this reason, I wish not to reveal who I am suspicious of unless I am forced or feel I have a strong enough case to follow through on my suspicions.

They might also be a PR who knew they had played badly so picked up to avoid claiming

Actually considering 2 votes are in red not green (including mine ) I think he's still at l-3

Then why didn't you change to green

I keep popping my head in to say something but I keep running a blank.

As far as people questioning my "I hope I'm right" answer. I think I have a right to be a bit worried about potentially lynching two townies based as much on flavor speculation as anything else. I went with it because reading the description for Izanami I couldn't see how that role could be town aligned.

Well I created you all so I'd be more than likely to be sided with you, and if you were unsure I could have been investigated.

unvote vote strike

[strike wolf]

-not sided with the mafia- ?

Considering we got a cult, I doubt a mafia would be likely here aswell. So, -not sided with the mafia- doesn't say much..

. It doesn't say much if there is a mafia.

On with the real case ( which is slightly less convincing since I missplaced a specific post..But still, holds it's weight as far as I am concerned ) :

Vote: Strike wolf

First of all..let's look at some of general's actions:

God, I'm clear and people still don't fucking listen to me...

Lets make sure to keep this moving here.

kk, VOTE JONTY

PEOPLE LISTEN TO THE CLEAR

kkthxbaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

This is day 2. We know there is a cult. You already claimed cop. You're a -very- highly candidate to be recruited, as it really makes the town think twice about getting you. And it prevents you from calling out the cult leader if you're recruited. The very basis you emphasis not once, but twice, that you are cleared makes me beleive the very opposite. You're not cleared. Nowhere near now.

A scuffle, a shout. Someone watched, someone listened. What had happened? What were the questions, what were the answers?

Dawn came and all were still alive. Warily the gods returned to their council. Why had no one died? They had all gone to rest assuming one of them would not return. They supposed it was best not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

The gods looked at each other and began to talk. They knew that there were enemies among them but who would they be? Few gods recognized each other, but by now there were a few more know faces.

It is now D2 11 alive 6 to lynch.

AHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Doc save FTW!!!!!

I know, I know. This is a common post after a night with no kills. However, it could be a roleblock, a jailkeeper, a bulletproof, or, lo and behold, a cult. With what we know of the setup right now, it's less likely there is a possible doc. And I think you knew it start of day 2, as, like I said, I beleive you to have been recruited night 1. Everywhere on night 2.

To all who are asking, I was not roleblocked. I learned that someone is not sided with the mafia. I'm not outting the invest yet, as it is pretty confirmed that we have a doc. If a watcher was watching me last night, please don't out what you saw. Even if you got both the doc and a mafia, that would mean outting the doc and I really don't want that shit.

Of course, that would out your cult leader as soon as you died, too.


Starting from this, where general wanted to keep his investigations secret for now ( which isn't that much of a bad thing, really )

This actually sums up mu thoughts on TheGeneral decently with some small exceptions that i'd rather not nitpick through (at least one should become obvious through this post).

we get strike starting to act very strangely:

Yeah could be role block could be doc protection. So General?

Same thing I said for general, assuming there is a doc/roleblock, but nothing else. I am having a slight feeling that these 2 knew what really was happening. But, more or less the point. The real thing here is that he asked, without doubts, general to claim his investigation. Then, very shortly, he changes his whole mind about it:

I don't see where I asked general to "claim his investigation". I said "So General" as in did you find anything noteworthy. As far as assuming a doc or roleblock. I was far from the only person to not suspect possible cult involvement and I still suspect that there is a serial killer maybe even a small mafia out there. The scene even mentions a struggle and someone did get killed Night 2.

So General, why won't you tell us who you investigated? I don't see how it could hurt the town, only help.

*shrugs* I don't see the harm in keeping it behind the bars for now. As long as the person isn't considered to be at risk of any lynch, I don't really feel there's strong to make them claim.

Alright, more or less a change. But he's very quick in accepting that when he didn't doubt it beforehand.

This is Strike's vote on jonty for the lynch, end of day 2:

Well I hope I'm right because I have every reason to believe that your claim is real Sound...I have every reason to doubt Jonty's alliance.

vote Jonty

AS pointed out before, your reasons are...well, yea. But you explained that already. Just pointing this out here.

This, however:

Either way I'm not gonna push a case on the cop on the principle that he COULD have been recruited. Just putting it forward. Also a recruited cult is the lowest on my rung to lynch. Much rather find the killer (assuming there is one) and the recruiter.

No one ever spoke of starting a case on the general. Granted, I just did it. And I will not agree to a general lynch tonight. The recruiter is so much more important right now. I also don't even want to find the killer right now. Recruiter above all else.

recruiter is above all else. Beyond that remember I was the one who first brought forward that thegeneral could have been recruited his not mafia result heavily reinforces my belief that he has been.

And I beleive him to be you.

Anyway, remember I said I had reasons to beleive General not to be a cop to start with? :

- Trying to get the cop out for his recruiter to recruit him, assuming the recruiter started with a single cultist ( if there is no other major factions in game ) -

reinforced in this post:

DO NOT LYNCH STRIKE

I am not confident enough for a lynch. My case was absolute shit and concocted entirely out of fear for my own life. Now that I have outted myself, I don't want Strike to be lynched.

Day 1. General isn't fond of random lynches, but in going to a defense against the person he accused, on day 1, and telling everyone NOT to lynch him..I dunno.



Anyway..Most of this isn't rock solid...Bottom line, strike's behavious has been eratic and strange since day 2.

I don't feel it's likely cult started with 2 members.

I couldn't find much but this is what I found if someone else would like to have a look through strike's posts.

I think Freezie gets the point. If I can get someone to alter their behavior without calling out their name that strongly suggests to me that they have reason to believe someone might become suspicious of them through the game. For this reason, I wish not to reveal who I am suspicious of unless I am forced or feel I have a strong enough case to follow through on my suspicions.

They might also be a PR who knew they had played badly so picked up to avoid claiming

Actually considering 2 votes are in red not green (including mine ) I think he's still at l-3

Then why didn't you change to green

At that point tthere had been another person who showed interest in voting (I believ thegeneral). I felt he was just as likely to end up putting him at L-2 and considering I never put someone at L-1 that quickly before a claim. I waited.

I keep popping my head in to say something but I keep running a blank.

As far as people questioning my "I hope I'm right" answer. I think I have a right to be a bit worried about potentially lynching two townies based as much on flavor speculation as anything else. I went with it because reading the description for Izanami I couldn't see how that role could be town aligned.

Well I created you all so I'd be more than likely to be sided with you, and if you were unsure I could have been investigated.

unvote vote strike

"Well I created you" you also made the comment about killing 1000 every day. Seemed like a decent indicator of possible scum.

[safariguy5]

So are we chalking up the death in Night 2 to a vig kill then? Doesn't necessarily rule out a SKer in my opinion.

[MeDeFe]

So are we chalking up the death in Night 2 to a vig kill then? Doesn't necessarily rule out a SKer in my opinion.

It could be either.

I rather doubt the existence of "traditional" scum in addition to the cult, though. The game is just too small.

[TheGeneral2112]

Okay, so for those of you who don't already know, I don't really post/read on weekends, but I have to clear something up...

Freezie, are you really proposing that I didn't want Strike (cult leader) lynched on D1 after I claimed because I am culted (from D1), knew the cult leader (from D1), and PUSHED on the fucking cult leader (from D1)?!?!?

Does anyone realize how illogical this argument is?

Like I said before, I only pushed on Strike D1 because I didn't want to claim. It came a little too close for comfort and I had to claim. After I did that, I could safely say "I made all that bullshit about Strike up", because I am clear and don't give a rat's ass about looking scummy when I am clear.

If this is indeed your argument, Freezie, then I want you lynched today.

[Victor Sullivan]

I think you misunderstood, General. At any rate, freezie is pursuing a strike case, which I am all for.

-Sully

[freezie]

Freezie, are you really proposing that I didn't want Strike (cult leader) lynched on D1 after I claimed because I am culted (from D1), knew the cult leader (from D1), and PUSHED on the fucking cult leader (from D1)?!?!?

.

You missed about 75% of my post. I said that it -could- be a possibility that you started off as a cultist along with strike, and your posts showed, to some degree, that possibility. Yet, that is not even in my main case. It was a noteworthy thing to write down.

If the killer is a sk, then you can probably rule this all together. if it's a vig, and without any mafia faction, having only a cult recruiter is a risk of ending the game Day 1. I feel it would be probable that a cult in this case could start with a second member. If the killer is a second mafia faction...well..yea. You can guess that it also rules out that.

And it would be a great way to dissociate from strike if you were really cult together on day 1.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Hey everybody. I'm a little behind, and I'm gearing up for my practicals and finals this coming week. I apologize, but please don't expect any activity from me until late Wednesday (PST so really late for most of you). After that I'm back in full force.

-Tails

[TheGeneral2112]

Freezie, are you really proposing that I didn't want Strike (cult leader) lynched on D1 after I claimed because I am culted (from D1), knew the cult leader (from D1), and PUSHED on the fucking cult leader (from D1)?!?!?

.

You missed about 75% of my post. I said that it -could- be a possibility that you started off as a cultist along with strike, and your posts showed, to some degree, that possibility. Yet, that is not even in my main case. It was a noteworthy thing to write down.

If the killer is a sk, then you can probably rule this all together. if it's a vig, and without any mafia faction, having only a cult recruiter is a risk of ending the game Day 1. I feel it would be probable that a cult in this case could start with a second member. If the killer is a second mafia faction...well..yea. You can guess that it also rules out that.

And it would be a great way to dissociate from strike if you were really cult together on day 1.

Yea, okay, like I said, I don't really read/post on weekends so I skimmed that longass post like a mofo. Sorry. Moving on, I will reread, look for a target, and zero in for the lynch. That is if I don't end up going with the Strike case.

[jonty125]

Freezie, are you really proposing that I didn't want Strike (cult leader) lynched on D1 after I claimed because I am culted (from D1), knew the cult leader (from D1), and PUSHED on the fucking cult leader (from D1)?!?!?

.

You missed about 75% of my post. I said that it -could- be a possibility that you started off as a cultist along with strike, and your posts showed, to some degree, that possibility. Yet, that is not even in my main case. It was a noteworthy thing to write down.

If the killer is a sk, then you can probably rule this all together. if it's a vig, and without any mafia faction, having only a cult recruiter is a risk of ending the game Day 1. I feel it would be probable that a cult in this case could start with a second member. If the killer is a second mafia faction...well..yea. You can guess that it also rules out that.

And it would be a great way to dissociate from strike if you were really cult together on day 1.

Yea, okay, like I said, I don't really read/post on weekends so I skimmed that longass post like a mofo. Sorry. Moving on, I will reread, look for a target, and zero in for the lynch. That is if I don't end up going with the Strike case.

I suppose as the cop, you can afford to skim.

[freezie]

Activity declining faster than the icebergs out there...

[edocsil]

And this is supposed to be a faster game too! Get this going guys. Mass prod tomorrow to whoever doesn't post.

[strike wolf]

Well I've spent most of the day defending myself and beyond what I've said about Thegeneral i've had nothing strong to go on case wise. My other suspicion goes against Safariguy but I have yet to read anything concrete to base that on.

[safariguy5]

Well I've spent most of the day defending myself and beyond what I've said about Thegeneral i've had nothing strong to go on case wise. My other suspicion goes against Safariguy but I have yet to read anything concrete to base that on.

Why me? I mean, the main point to come up today is a WIFOMy argument that thegeneral could be a recruited cultie, but frankly nothing has come up definitively one way or another.

[strike wolf]

Well I've spent most of the day defending myself and beyond what I've said about Thegeneral i've had nothing strong to go on case wise. My other suspicion goes against Safariguy but I have yet to read anything concrete to base that on.

Why me? I mean, the main point to come up today is a WIFOMy argument that thegeneral could be a recruited cultie, but frankly nothing has come up definitively one way or another.

Mostly just gut feeling. If I had found something solid I would have presented it already.

[pancakemix]

Blegh. Tough to get involved when the only half decent case is just that and his alternative is based on a gut feeling, especially when there's not much else to go on.