opinions on bush

[Kahless]

Whats more pathetic the fact that clinton was impeached for getting a blowjob or that Noone has even said Impeachment? relating to Bush?

(other then Colbert who called them all pussies!)

It's the same in the UK, any MP caught in a sex scandal has to resign immediately, but any found to be incompetent at their job get nothing but a pay rise

[vtmarik]

well i dont mind him, but i hate it when people call him stupid, how many stupid people could manage to win the presidency twice? hes done well for himself and i could never call him stupid, even if hes made mistakes, who hasnt?

Anyone who cannot pronounce the word Nuclear, consistently screws up old sayings, and continually lies to cover up his semantical fuck-ups is stupid.

Stupid is forever. And he's not the first stupid president we've ever had. Nixon comes to mind, as does Clinton, Reagan, and Bush Sr.

Stupidity has nothing to do with your administration, because the people doing the real heavy lifting are everyone else in the building.

[salr15]

Being a US Citizen I am not a big fan of Bush but I also think that people give Clinton way too much credit. He is probably one of the most christmatic and articulate people I have ever seen BUT that said he was a president during the dot com bubble. Also alot of the 9/11 issues really arised under his leadership but Bush got most of the blame because it occurred during his term.

If you look at the economy as a whole, the US economy is arguable better now than under Clinton's presidency. The unemployment rate is at 4.4% down from as high as 6.3% in 2003. The Dow Jones is close to 13,000 which is unheard of, ignoring the mini crash we had a month ago due to the subprime lending debacle which was kind of expected. But considering what we went through back in 2001 and all the wars going on today, that is pretty impressive.

That said, Bush is an idiot when it comes to other areas. As a President of a democratic nation where Freedom of Religion is part of its constitution, he pushes his Christian beliefs too much, which I am sure helped win his presidency both times. I think his policy on Stem Cell research is obsurd because if he hadn't vetoed the embryonic stem cell research bill, we could have possibly come up with some cures for devastating diseases (that could be a whole other thread by itself).

His foreign relations is plain awful! Not only has he created huge national debt with his 2 wars and taken the lives of thousand of US soldiers, not to mention the millions of Iraqi Civilian lives, he has also created alot of tension in the world as a whole. With his "Cowboy" mentality he has completely ignored the U.N. to do what he wants with the Iraq war, which couldn't have turned out any worse. What makes it even worse is that he clearly has no plan for the future so all we are left to do is just wonder...

He also looks like an idiot when he talks which doesn't help at all. As someone already mentioned you can't really put all the blame on him because he is the puppet but then again I think when all is said and done, he will go down as one of the worst Presidents in US history.

[Tommy Hobbes]

George Bush... I think there are a couple ways you can get to be president. "Be rich" or "Be the smartest person in America" Bush did the former, Clinton the latter. I know this is an old hack that everyone says, but the similarities between vietnam and iraq are pretty obvious. It's sad. George is smart, his speech screwups actually require a remarkable command of the english language. Also, he changes his southern accent as he moves south. In New York he sounds like someone from N. Tennesee, in Texas he sounds like well, Texas. He's bright. But his priorities aren't mine. Education for example. I want a decent education to be available to the public, paid for by the government. He disagrees. I am a big government liberal, more faith in the CCC than Reaganomics. That's beside all the separation of church and state stuff, and his horrible treatment of the 9/11 attacks. In short, I think he should die of something stem cell research could have cured. Today.

[Tommy Hobbes]

oh, and i live here in the states. I'm a patriotic american, wouldn't want to live anywhere else.(unless there's a draft)

[Guiscard]

I'm torn in my opinion of Bush...

The Bush administration has played out an interesting (and entirely immoral) foreign policy gamble... Ultimately, I believe they've managed to tip the balance against America through their actions, although those same actions (if carried through more effectively) could have resulted in a much stronger position for the US. If Iraq hadn't turned into such a debcacle, it would have cemented American hegemonic dominance in the Middle East and, most likely, provided an easy opportunity for attack on Iraq, the last major obstacle. Instead, it went pear shaped, public opinion has plummeted, the world has orientated itself morally against American actions, and where the public go their leaders will follow... We'll see growing anti-American sentiment over the next ten years and thins are gonna get very difficult for the great US of A.

As for Bush himself, obviously the whole strategy was not his own, and its hard to really decide the extent to which he is an easily manipulated figure head. I think the man must have some sense, but lack enough to be led so easily by hawkish advisers. He came very close to cementing The USA's position as sole world hegemon, but ultimately he's failed...[/i]

[got tonkaed]

I would say guiscard handles the issue quite well if i do say so myself.

[red bull]

I would say guiscard handles the issue quite well if i do say so myself.

yes i would have to agree with you on this and yes i do like bush ....

[Nephilim]

I would predict that the US vote is split nearly 50-50 but the non-US vote will be more like 90% anti-bush.

so far 47 votes and a big majority in the US vote for hating bush. he is very unpopular here, flash, though it may seem otherwise overseas

So how could America possibly vote in that boneheaded, cringe-makingly inarticulate chump, Bush, instead? Twice?

i chalk it up to better long-term planning and propaganda by the republicans. in fact their propaganda machine makes lefty media seem completely ineffective. karl rove is an evil genius--the repubs just know how to play to the vast sea of uncritical voters out there.

he will go down as one of the worst Presidents in US history.

i'm pretty fond of US history, and i agree w/ ya, salr. in 20-30 years, i'm betting he will be hated more than nixon is now, and remembered as a terrible fuckup.

he sounds like someone from N. Tennesee

where exactly is north tennessee? you know the state's only about 120 miles north-south? big linguistic difference there? just curious.....

thanks for responses, all

[Nephilim]

I'm torn in my opinion of Bush...

The Bush administration has played out an interesting (and entirely immoral) foreign policy gamble... Ultimately, I believe they've managed to tip the balance against America through their actions, although those same actions (if carried through more effectively) could have resulted in a much stronger position for the US. If Iraq hadn't turned into such a debcacle, it would have cemented American hegemonic dominance in the Middle East and, most likely, provided an easy opportunity for attack on Iraq, the last major obstacle. Instead, it went pear shaped, public opinion has plummeted, the world has orientated itself morally against American actions, and where the public go their leaders will follow... We'll see growing anti-American sentiment over the next ten years and thins are gonna get very difficult for the great US of A.

As for Bush himself, obviously the whole strategy was not his own, and its hard to really decide the extent to which he is an easily manipulated figure head. I think the man must have some sense, but lack enough to be led so easily by hawkish advisers. He came very close to cementing The USA's position as sole world hegemon, but ultimately he's failed...[/i]

hmmm, gotta disagree w/ a lot of this. how close did US forces actually come to securing and stabilizing iraq? assuming the goal was to set up a stable gov't that would be friendly to large US military presence, a foothold in the region to exert dominance-----was this ever actually a possibility? it would seem the whole enterprise has been horrific miscalculation; how could anyone think it would work? now, if the goal was to line the pockets of the military-industrial complex and their cronies--vast success. but the tradeoff ain't so great there, so i'm thinking this wasn't the goal.

"bush" here of course stands for the policies of the entire administration, not just for the man himself. not just the figurehead, but what he represents. and that is, in the words of jon stewart, a catastrofuck.

[Nephilim]

I would say guiscard handles the issue quite well if i do say so myself.

yes i would have to agree with you on this and yes i do like bush ....

why?

or are you talking about the other kind.......

[Guiscard]

hmmm, gotta disagree w/ a lot of this. how close did US forces actually come to securing and stabilizing iraq? assuming the goal was to set up a stable gov't that would be friendly to large US military presence, a foothold in the region to exert dominance-----was this ever actually a possibility? it would seem the whole enterprise has been horrific miscalculation; how could anyone think it would work? now, if the goal was to line the pockets of the military-industrial complex and their cronies--vast success. but the tradeoff ain't so great there, so i'm thinking this wasn't the goal.

"bush" here of course stands for the policies of the entire administration, not just for the man himself. not just the figurehead, but what he represents. and that is, in the words of jon stewart, a catastrofuck.

The policies employed by the US in Iraq went pretty much 100% against the advice of most political commentators and advisers (the UK military top brass included). They were told NOT to disband the local structures of government, the ba'athist party included, as without such structures (with which Iraqi's were already familiar) they would basically have to build a nation from the ground up, and would fail especially considering the immense cultural gulf and lack of understanding of the Arab mentality.

They dismantled all state apparatus and replaced them, basically, with a foreign aggressor as the policeman rather than your Uncle Ali. I'm not saying that Iraq would have been an easy ride, not at all, but it could have been handled better and, potentially, they could be out by know.

[MeDeFe]

Where's the "shave it off"-option?

[red bull]

hmmm, gotta disagree w/ a lot of this. how close did US forces actually come to securing and stabilizing iraq? assuming the goal was to set up a stable gov't that would be friendly to large US military presence, a foothold in the region to exert dominance-----was this ever actually a possibility? it would seem the whole enterprise has been horrific miscalculation; how could anyone think it would work? now, if the goal was to line the pockets of the military-industrial complex and their cronies--vast success. but the tradeoff ain't so great there, so i'm thinking this wasn't the goal.

"bush" here of course stands for the policies of the entire administration, not just for the man himself. not just the figurehead, but what he represents. and that is, in the words of jon stewart, a catastrofuck.

The policies employed by the US in Iraq went pretty much 100% against the advice of most political commentators and advisers (the UK military top brass included). They were told NOT to disband the local structures of government, the ba'athist party included, as without such structures (with which Iraqi's were already familiar) they would basically have to build a nation from the ground up, and would fail especially considering the immense cultural gulf and lack of understanding of the Arab mentality.

They dismantled all state apparatus and replaced them, basically, with a foreign aggressor as the policeman rather than your Uncle Ali. I'm not saying that Iraq would have been an easy ride, not at all, but it could have been handled better and, potentially, they could be out by know.

well Afghanistan was built from the bottem up afterwards... its doing fine right now atleast i have not heard anything

[Guiscard]

well Afghanistan was built from the bottem up afterwards... its doing fine right now atleast i have not heard anything

Nah not quite I'm afriad... There's a Taliban insurgency who are leading resurgent militias in some of the worst fighting since the invasion began. Drug trade is almost at an all time high... It's still an active war zone, more than Iraq is in fact, but its just not as new-worthy because public opinion is generally behind the war and there aren't the same frequency of dramatic suicide bombings and civilian killings (although these are certainly present). its also not as diplomatically and politically important.

We (the British) are leaving Iraq but we're still very much entrenched in Afghanistan.

[Guilty_Biscuit]

Thanks salr, I didn't know the US economy had prospered under Bush. I thought he was a complete idiot but you've turned that on it's head. Is it really true? We only hear bad things in the UK.

[red bull]

Thanks salr, I didn't know the US economy had prospered under Bush. I thought he was a complete idiot but you've turned that on it's head. Is it really true? We only hear bad things in the UK.

jobs are actuly up..... just not the jobs people want like the vp jobs but there are jobs infact my dad cant find any one to help us no one wants to do hard labor

[red bull]

edit: or they dont want me bossing them around

[DAZMCFC]

Thanks salr, I didn't know the US economy had prospered under Bush. I thought he was a complete idiot but you've turned that on it's head. Is it really true? We only hear bad things in the UK.

jobs are actuly up..... just not the jobs people want like the vp jobs but there are jobs infact my dad cant find any one to help us no one wants to do hard labor

get some poles in they will do it. there is fucking thousands over here.
i voted i like bush and then read the 1st post. damn why go all political on me. i hate anything serious on these forums, my beliefs in politics and religion are mine. i know if i put them on here, someone will slag them off and i can not be arsed to fight back with most because you can not win aguements on this site about stuff like that. so i usually ignore politics and religious threads.

[Titanic]

well Afghanistan was built from the bottem up afterwards... its doing fine right now atleast i have not heard anything

Nah not quite I'm afriad... There's a Taliban insurgency who are leading resurgent militias in some of the worst fighting since the invasion began. Drug trade is almost at an all time high... It's still an active war zone, more than Iraq is in fact, but its just not as new-worthy because public opinion is generally behind the war and there aren't the same frequency of dramatic suicide bombings and civilian killings (although these are certainly present). its also not as diplomatically and politically important.

We (the British) are leaving Iraq but we're still very much entrenched in Afghanistan.

The Northern Alliance helped as well, as there were consideable amounts of Afghans who were armed and could do security things, to help keep Afghanistan safe after the Taliban defeat. In Iraq, they left it all upto coalition troops, apart from in the North, where the Kurds helped keep the peace in which is now the safest area in Iraq.

[Nephilim]

it could have been handled better and, potentially, they could be out by now.

i'm sure this is true, but what was the actual goal of going into iraq? i'm thinking you would agree that the goal seemed to be: gain a foothold in the mideast to start reshaping it, stabilize it, retain a significant presence there to exert major influence in the region, etc. so i'm not sure truly "getting out by now" was ever a goal. by that i mean, the US wouldn't have 100,000+ still there, but some installations and troops, a beachhead in the region. so: if this was the goal, they completely fucked it up, and was there ever a chance of that happening? and even if it was a possible objective, would it even make much sense long term? lots of questions there, thanks for your thoughts, g....

well Afghanistan was built from the bottem up afterwards... its doing fine right now atleast i have not heard anything

maybe you like bush cause you don't read the news?

Thanks salr, I didn't know the US economy had prospered under Bush. I thought he was a complete idiot but you've turned that on it's head. Is it really true? We only hear bad things in the UK.

economy is doing fine, but notice what salr said: unemployment is back down around 4%, from 6% in the middle of bush's time in office. 4% is a good number, and clinton's administration was able to keep it around there. 6% is awful, really bad. so we have to notice that it was fucked up for a while. salr also said the economy is going good despite the war, but war is usually good for the economy (tho not in the mideast, i suppose). another problem: the income disparity in the US is as bad as it's ever been, i have read. so while wall street may be doing very well, the poor are as far away from the rich as ever.

i post for no apparent reason.

if you don't like political posts, don't read em. you realize you posted in a political thread just to tell us that you usually ignore political threads?

[red bull]

it could have been handled better and, potentially, they could be out by now.

i'm sure this is true, but what was the actual goal of going into iraq? i'm thinking you would agree that the goal seemed to be: gain a foothold in the mideast to start reshaping it, stabilize it, retain a significant presence there to exert major influence in the region, etc. so i'm not sure truly "getting out by now" was ever a goal. by that i mean, the US wouldn't have 100,000+ still there, but some installations and troops, a beachhead in the region. so: if this was the goal, they completely fucked it up, and was there ever a chance of that happening? and even if it was a possible objective, would it even make much sense long term? lots of questions there, thanks for your thoughts, g....

we already have places in the middle east as bases

[Tommy Hobbes]

Tennesee is weirdly divided. North and south do talk differently, even though there's not a lot of distance twixt the two.

[vtmarik]

well Afghanistan was built from the bottem up afterwards... its doing fine right now atleast i have not heard anything

The Taliban, which we went over there to take down, is back and has support of the populace.

It's back to what it was before we got there.

[RobinJ]

A rather comprehensive poll if I may say so.