Rated M ENDGAME: Scene on Page 42

by **Iron Butterfly** on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:09 pm

Im gonna start calling you Eagleblade junior.

by **jgordon1111** on Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:22 pm

I dont think I did the same thing I was protecting a town role that got called under fire with no real reason,just At best Edoc role fishing and everyone let it slide.

Then everyone says I am not playing by the rules.

So I claimed like the four asked.

If that is bad play then I am still at a loss, Something out of the normal made some of you very hostile. I find that odd somehow.

IB an explanation if you will, why someone not wanting to claim makes this happen.

And if you meant eagle blade because I said if I survive(lol) Edoc or BG is going to die why is that bad?
pretty much everyone I see in these games kill without a good reason. I held off on night one because I didnt have enough to kill randomly,which happens alot.

Now in my eyes I do. I have 2 targets that seem like scum to me. So if given the chance one of them will now die.

by **Iron Butterfly** on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:02 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:I dont think I did the same thing I was protecting a town role that got called under fire with no real reason,just At best Edoc role fishing and everyone let it slide.

Then everyone says I am not playing by the rules.

So I claimed like the four asked.

If that is bad play then I am still at a loss, Something out of the normal made some of you very hostile. I find that odd somehow.

IB an explanation if you will, why someone not wanting to claim makes this happen.

And if you meant eagle blade because I said if I survive(lol) Edoc or BG is going to die why is that bad?
pretty much everyone I see in these games kill without a good reason. I held off on night one because I didnt have enough to kill randomly,which happens alot.

Because they seem like scum to you, does not make them scum. look at how wildwilliam comes across. I would have shot him in a heart beat in our first game together. I watched him like a hawk. Even in endgame he was ajerk...yet he turned town.

Now your threatening to night lill people and they have done nothing other then to follow the protocals of the game. you know....there really isnt much more to say. Now we are suppose to let you kill people at random who may be town?

Now in my eyes I do. I have 2 targets that seem like scum to me. So if given the chance one of them will now die.

by **Iron Butterfly** on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:04 pm

Bad post. My reply to Jgordon

Because they seem like scum to you, does not make them scum. look at how wildwilliam comes across. I would have shot him in a heart beat in our first game together. I watched him like a hawk. Even in endgame he was ajerk...yet he turned town.

Now your threatening to night lill people and they have done nothing other then to follow the protocals of the game. you know....there really isnt much more to say. Now we are suppose to let you kill people at random who may be town?

by **MoB Deadly** on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:05 pm

catchuing up from page 17

by **MoB Deadly** on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:19 pm

Wow Jgordon......

I dont understand your unwillingness to claim. If you are pressured for a lynch, you need to either:
1) Claim
2) or come up with a better case

You can't just refute the statements made about you. It took several votes to get you to L-2, they cant ALL be mafia, therefore town has an interest in hearing your claim as well. Now that you claimed unblockable Vigi we kind of have a predicament.

To me, first gut instinct, is this guy is the godfather. He says kill so-and-so, his goon does it for him, thus making him unblockable. Does unblockable mean it will go through doc's protections?

I guess what I want to know, is there a way we can spare him and prove he is telling the truth tonight without another claim from town? If we can't do that I don't think its worth it, especially with his arrogance and ego right now, I am thinking he will shoot more town than mafia.

I want to hear others' opinions before I cast my vote.

by **jgordon1111** on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:30 pm

Your kidding with that right IB, random killing is what goes on in all of these games from D1 on with most of the time it's you players that have been around for the longest leading the random killings and lynchings.

And now you tell me, that when I believe someone is scummy that you cant let me just go around randomly killing other players.

Edoc lead the freight train on eagle blade.

Edoc is leading the freight train on me and thats ok with you,because he has played longer and plays according to the (rules).Which I cant find anywhere that says I have to or should claim.

But that is ok with you is what your telling me because thats helpful. Losing 2 town players that could have helped town win, Because Edoc says so is ok.

Am I understanding you correctly?

If that is the logic that runs these mafia games then I am clearly in the wrong games.

I thought you gathered evidence of someones guilt and proceeded from there. Real guilt not some BS that is used to fish for a role and call it evidence.

If that is what you think makes a good game, My thoughts are on an entirely different page.

That I chose a different approach to standing my ground than what is considered normal play, I am a rogue you in essence would rather not play with?

How very odd indeed an elitist group even in this.

fast posted by MoB

No need to wait Mob cast your vote now please help bring this to an end

by **nàme** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:47 am

i see where you are coming from jgordon, and i do feel for you. i will only vote you if you do want to die, if not i would rather see this role of yours be used for what you think is right

by **edocsil** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:25 am

JG if we let you live do not under any circumstances vig me. You are misguided in this opinion that people who vote for you are evil and it could easily be the downfall of the town, especially with a role as powerful as yours, if it is true.

In all due honesty I believe that claim and would be comfortable if we could test it on someone who we find to actually be scummy, or perhaps a submariner. Due to your race you should have some distinct flavor. My largest issue is I don't think you have a clear enough head to rationally choose targets for your kill. You are getting tunnel vision on me, simply because I perused a case against you. (Again it was the only case presented so I was going to run with it, and look how much discussion this has generated.)

As far as your gameplay goes, yes you are acting as a rouge, and that is not good. Mafia is about patterns, trends, educated guesses and a fair amount of luck. If patterns and trends do not apply to someone then all you are left with is basically luck. I like to win to much to rely on luck. This is how evidence is gathered. The first cases are for little things, and are often inaccurate. Their primary purpose it to get conversation going so we can identify scum based on their action or inaction.

If people refuse to follow that plan we basically repeat D1 over and over again, and the town will lose unless it manages to get a lucky cop. To facilitate this game the town claims when pressured, makes new cases, contributes to the discussion, and a myriad of other things. If someone lies like eagle, or breaks the rules flat out (quoting claim) the must be modkilled, otherwise it destroys the integrity of the game we are playing. For lesser disruptions of the scum hunt we just lynch, as the once who stand to benefit from that disruption are the scum.

If you would ever like to discus the nature of this game (mafia in general) feel free to PM me, what I type in game is a method to get a result and often doesn't reflect my true opinions.

by **jgordon1111** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:48 am

Edoc I understand all you have said, and in my own way rather than claim, I tried to warn you of what I might be per the first game we played(several times) when I refused to claim for WW. Second game you should have remembered I suck at lying and fake claims, so I had one option stand my ground and hope for the best and see who bandwagoned me. It is what it is.

by **edocsil** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:15 am

jgordon1111 wrote:Edoc I understand all you have said, and in my own way rather than claim, I tried to warn you of what I might be per the first game we played(several times) when I refused to claim for WW. Second game you should have remembered I suck at lying and fake claims, so I had one option stand my ground and hope for the best and see who bandwagoned me. It is what it is.

I don't believe we know you well enough to pick up a role from hints, and any idiot can copy/past a fake. I do not know which game you are referring to, I hope no slack was cut for you there either.

by **Leehar** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:25 am

So, conspiracy has ended?
Do we still continue with the jgordon case? or find something new on BG perhaps as jg wanted?

And sorry for partly submarining last couple of days. I did try to come out in jg's defense earlier, because I did kinda understand his pov, but it just seemed too tough to come out with a feasible defense for him when he was also seemingly digging a bigger hole for him, and I just didn't want to get egg on my face if he did end up flipping scum or something if lynched.

So I'm glad that was able to be partly resolved and the couple of guys have been able to clear up their differences, but also for in future jg, you need to try avoid muddying the waters so much. You seem to end up creating quite a lot of confusion sometimes.

Otherwise, I've just seen name pop up for the first time, are there any other submariners running around?

by **BGtheBrain** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:18 am

by **nàme** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:28 am

i would also like to pursue leehar further. he comes on and says he wouldve gone to jgordons defense but it wouldve made him a target, which is either counterproductive for the town or an evil in hiding

by **MoB Deadly** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:43 am

BGtheBrain wrote:ok.
so the claim is good and sounds legit and the flavor would reflect a tree person (I would think)

1) Edoc is quick to say, "cool man, but dont waste it on me!" This leaves his target as me. Obviously, that doesnt sit well with me.
2)
Leehar wrote:Do we still continue with the jgordon case? or find something new on BG perhaps as jg wanted?

And sorry for partly submarining last couple of days. I did try to come out in jg's defense earlier, because I did kinda understand his pov, but it just seemed too tough to come out with a feasible defense for him when he was also seemingly digging a bigger hole for him, and I just didn't want to get egg on my face if he did end up flipping scum or something if lynched.

So here's my issues.
1) Edoc and I should be waiting equally at best in the eyes of jgordon. Actually, about 2 or 3 other people had the same objections to jgordon not claiming as I did, so sure we could include them, but JG was pretty clear he was wary of myself and Edoc.

2) Leehar conveniently suggests only me (while ignoring Edoc as an option that JG clearly stated) then apologizes for submarining..

My thoughts. Leehar's post is very suspicious. The omission of Edoc, plus apologizing for submarining doesnt wit well with me.

I agree 100%, why is it okay "BG time" when edoc is clearly in the picture too. There's something wrong with that picture.

unvote vote leehar

by **edocsil** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:52 am

BGtheBrain wrote:ok.
so the claim is good and sounds legit and the flavor would reflect a tree person (I would think)

1) Edoc is quick to say, "cool man, but dont waste it on me!" This leaves his target as me. Obviously, that doesnt sit well with me.
2)
Leehar wrote:Do we still continue with the jgordon case? or find something new on BG perhaps as jg wanted?

And sorry for partly submarining last couple of days. I did try to come out in jg's defense earlier, because I did kinda understand his pov, but it just seemed too tough to come out with a feasible defense for him when he was also seemingly digging a bigger hole for him, and I just didn't want to get egg on my face if he did end up flipping scum or something if lynched.

So here's my issues.
1) Edoc and I should be waiting equally at best in the eyes of jgordon. Actually, about 2 or 3 other people had the same objections to jgordon not claiming as I did, so sure we could include them, but JG was pretty clear he was wary of myself and Edoc.

2) Leehar conveniently suggests only me (while ignoring Edoc as an option that JG clearly stated) then apologizes for submarining..

My thoughts. Leehar's post is very suspicious. The omission of Edoc, plus apologizing for submarining doesnt wit well with me.

I don't know who you are in game, but I don't think your claim is as solid as mine. Some people I believe have figured out who I am at this point and know why I should be kept alive. This is how I play town power, it makes me a target but it also gets me the defense I need at night.

I also agree with the red part, I feel like he is trying to buddy with me after I implied town power. To me that smells fishier then JG, although I have reservations about leaving him at my back.

by **Leehar** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:40 pm

I was just following:
"Commander9 wrote:
Trust Edoc, as I know he's VERY good."

Sheesh, you guys are almost like hounds after food. Heck, it's like I would've actually been better served if I didn't even pop up.

I have no clue who or what edoc is soft-claiming, so thats a non-issue, but if you guys actually read the past couple of pages better then the obvious skimming and bandwagon hopping you're doing, the reason that initially Jgordon was going after BG (his first and I think still only vote?) before omgus like stuff on edoc, was that he was bandwagon hopping (his words?) and it's also obvious he's been a lot less active (you say there were 3 or 4 of you asking claims from jgord, but you were hands down the most submarine-ish, and also most bandwagon-ish on that case)

Heck, you were the one to say you'd claim if jg did bg, so why're you running away now? And suddenly you turn around to omgus me and name and mob suddenly pounce on to a bandwagon for such innocuous comments?
Sheesh dudes, I wasn't even around for 3/4 of the first day and night, how the hell do you expect me to be mafia? You guys are completely barking up the wrong tree!

And the only reason that I wasn't vigorous in jg's defence is firstly what I said, and secondly because It just seemed like it was too much effort so I thought I'd save the energy for myself. I did start some drafts, but it wasn't really that easy to innumerate on what I was thinking, so I just left it , but now somehow thats enough for you guys to get on me like vultures on a carcass? No wonder jg was so stubborn!

by **BGtheBrain** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:19 pm

by **Leehar** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:32 pm

Nice try on what? You said it, not me.

But now that you've made out the mountain out of a molehill, it's up to you whether you want to follow through on it or not, but frankly those kind of cases are very irritating.

My vote tho is going for the only person not to have commented in day 2 (at least to my recollection), so vote Commander9

by **Iron Butterfly** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:47 pm

Leehar wrote:Nice try on what? You said it, not me.

But now that you've made out the mountain out of a molehill, it's up to you whether you want to follow through on it or not, but frankly those kind of cases are very irritating.

My vote tho is going for the only person not to have commented in day 2 (at least to my recollection), so vote Commander9

I said my vote would stay on Jgordon not because I beleived there was a strong case but because of his behavior. i am still worried he will do somthing foolish but that is out of my control unless we decide to lynch.

I was looking at jgordons post list and Commander 9s post count, even after all the drama the last several pages makes me beleive it would be safe to pressure him. He is eother inactive or submarining...but to not comment after all the ruckus certianly raise my suspicion as well.
Vote Commander9

by **jgordon1111** on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:40 pm

Thanks Edoc I believe for now you have no reason to worry that I am in the game.

Leehar I understand why you came to my defense,because of the other game thank you, But you now know that is a bad thing to do sometimes,it can make you the next target quick.

BG well I am still a little worried about you for some reason, but we can get to that D3 if needed,You did make a deal I will remember

With that said lets go forward

Unvote vote C9 Because as has been pointed out not much activity D1. Zero D2

Come say something C9 let everyone know your still reading whats going on

by **Leehar** on Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:44 am

Leehar wrote: vote Commander9

by **DoomYoshi** on Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:22 am

I have prodded him a couple times now. Replacement may be the solution here.

by **nàme** on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:13 pm

well if he is being replaced i think we should hold off until the new guy gets a hold on the situation

by **safariguy5** on Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:24 pm

I just want to suggest, that as a vig, killing people early on usually isn't the best idea. Just because someone led a case on you doesn't automatically make them scum. Statistically, you're more likely to hit town than mafia with a vig shot, especially early on. So I would recommend you not kill BG or edoc jgordon.

I'm also a bit concerned here, I missed edoc softclaiming a PR too, the case against jgordon was mostly edoc explaining logic. But then we immediately get a bandwagon on leehar for what I thought was a pretty innocent post. I've played enough games with Leehar to know he's not the most active poster, but by no means was that an extended period of submarining to me. And then we follow with a bandwagon on Com9.

unvote and I'll wait to see if Com9 is replaced.