Stool Pigeon Mafia - Game Over! Mafia Win!!! MVP- Zimmah

[FoxMists]

Okay I almost feel the need to unvote at this point. With replacements coming in, MOB invalidating his riddle, I really have no idea what's going on anymore. Not that I really did at the beginning. And I srsly have so much IRL stuff happening to me right now, it's all I can do not to ask for someone to replace ME. FML

I'm assuming the game is on hold until some replacements and such are done. WB Eldario.

[VioIet]

This game has been halted and most people are confused- so I feel that I had to take some drastic measures.

Normally, I don't do this- but I think it will help this game get moving again.

Normally, I don't let people replace three times, or let those who were mod-killed back in the game- BUT...... I am going to allow Zimmah and TheHippo to replace Nagerous and Dazerazer.

[zimmah]

confirmed i'm now a double zombie

Click image to enlarge.

[chapcrap]

confirmed i'm now a double zombie

Click image to enlarge.

I also am not sure what to think about this. And I'm not sure if their previous knowledge in this game (from their specific previous roles) will be coming into play or not. I don't know.

All I know is that double zombies scare the crap outta me!! unvote vote zimmah

[zimmah]

i find this behavior to be quite scummy, or don't you remember how i died the last 2 times, and how i am supposed to bring some life back into this game?

now go ahead and lynch me and leave the town in the dark again, but i'm among those rare few that even remotely try to hunt scum, so let's not rush the case and allow me some time to go through the facts again and come up with something.

coming back to live for a 2nd time does have some advantages inevitably and even if i am/was VT in all those lives i know as much as an informant would have known, as i believe some informants may only have known a few VTs. note: i am NOT claiming to be an informant, i am just stating the obvious, i know for sure what my previous roles have been. for what that's worth.

i have done my best to present some cases in the past and i will do so again, untill i get NKd like the other times probably, so make good use of this and let's hope the game won't become inactive again. even as a simple VT i am willing to try and shed some light on the situation but i will need to re-read a bit. (i have been lurking the forums even after my dead so i'm not completely unaware of the situations)

anyway, for now a big FOS towards chapcrap, but i won't vote yet because i have no idea of the current votecount and i don't want to hammer or L-1 someone by accident, even if i probably wouldn't mind you getting lynched, what exactly have YOU done to move the town forward?

[zimmah]

ok after a quick read of the past day i noticed that the current case on mob/fox are quite weird.

mob basically left some information for town that is highly doubted, however, regardless of if it's valid information or not, mob would likely choose the submarine in a game that was inactive in the first place over trying to get an inactive game actively hunting scum again. this may be considered WIFOM, but i will give mob the benefit of the doubt here.

however, that does not automatically make fox scummy for not beleiving mob, i mean, i'd be surpriced too if i was still alive by the time mob wrote that, because his hints didn't make any sense and he posted it in a way that was not really smart so he actually painted himself a bit scummy even though his intentions were good.

in fact i think they are both good and they are just both as confused, however what was even more interesting is how trinicardinal was doubting mob even more then fox, yet noone even replied to that, and on top of that, in the middle of the conversation that was mostly between trini, fox and mob, after mob got almost lynched and chap took a vote off, william all of a sudden votes fox without any reason given and after that a bandwagon starts to form against fox, without much reasoning other then the fact she never beleived mob, while mob was L-1 in the first place, so is't it a little hypocrite to vote fox for something you ALL did?

i'd say trini and william are acting the most scummy today. both of them voted either fox or mob, and none of them voted the same, which may be an attempt to distance from each other. even though trini didn't vote mob, he did doubt him just as much and nearly got mob lynched (note how he was on the wagon when mob was L-1)

[chapcrap]

zimmah, that was just a joke vote. I don't actually think that you should be voted. Good grief!

unvote

[zimmah]

zimmah, that was just a joke vote. I don't actually think that you should be voted. Good grief!

unvote

jokevoting day 4? anyway, what do you think of my other post, not even a slight reaction or even a confirmation that you read it.

[chapcrap]

zimmah, that was just a joke vote. I don't actually think that you should be voted. Good grief!

unvote

jokevoting day 4? anyway, what do you think of my other post, not even a slight reaction or even a confirmation that you read it.

Joke votes happen a lot when a player is replaced. Especially after you made a joke about being a double zombie.

About what you wrote: between fox and MoB I thought there was more of a case on MoB, but not a strong one. I can see what you are saying about trini and william. To me, I would say that william is has been acting scummier overall between the two of them. However, trying to link them is going a little far I think. They don't have any reason to distance themselves because even after a lynch we can't tell what the person was.

[zimmah]

zimmah, that was just a joke vote. I don't actually think that you should be voted. Good grief!

unvote

jokevoting day 4? anyway, what do you think of my other post, not even a slight reaction or even a confirmation that you read it.

Joke votes happen a lot when a player is replaced. Especially after you made a joke about being a double zombie.

About what you wrote: between fox and MoB I thought there was more of a case on MoB, but not a strong one. I can see what you are saying about trini and william. To me, I would say that william is has been acting scummier overall between the two of them. However, trying to link them is going a little far I think. They don't have any reason to distance themselves because even after a lynch we can't tell what the person was.

hmm, i didn't think about that, but even then, if someone is widely believed to be mafia, wouldn't it still be best to distance? and if someone is confirmed scum by informants wouldn't it be a bad thing to be alligned with that person? so i'd say distancing isn't compeletely useless, but maybe it's just a coincidence.

either way i think it warrants a vote on either of them.

[Eldario]

That's what I thought too after the night before. There was only 1 kill and now we are back to 2 kills.

Is there a Russian Roulette type of serial killer that picks someone, but might not always have a bullet in the chamber? Does that analogy even make sense?

That sounds like a fabulous new SK role to play with! And kinda scary! Go you!

This might be a little late, but hey I was just resurrected.
But really?.... Where this the best theory you could come up with?
It never occurred to anyone that they might just have hit the same target?
At least that was the first theory I came up with....

[zimmah]

That's what I thought too after the night before. There was only 1 kill and now we are back to 2 kills.

Is there a Russian Roulette type of serial killer that picks someone, but might not always have a bullet in the chamber? Does that analogy even make sense?

That sounds like a fabulous new SK role to play with! And kinda scary! Go you!

This might be a little late, but hey I was just resurrected.
But really?.... Where this the best theory you could come up with?
It never occurred to anyone that they might just have hit the same target?
At least that was the first theory I came up with....

yes, that's the most likely theory.

[chapcrap]

That's what I thought too after the night before. There was only 1 kill and now we are back to 2 kills.

Is there a Russian Roulette type of serial killer that picks someone, but might not always have a bullet in the chamber? Does that analogy even make sense?

That sounds like a fabulous new SK role to play with! And kinda scary! Go you!

This might be a little late, but hey I was just resurrected.
But really?.... Where this the best theory you could come up with?
It never occurred to anyone that they might just have hit the same target?
At least that was the first theory I came up with....

No, I hadn't even thought about that. That does make more sense. Especially in a small game.

[trinicardinal]

ok after a quick read of the past day i noticed that the current case on mob/fox are quite weird.

mob basically left some information for town that is highly doubted, however, regardless of if it's valid information or not, mob would likely choose the submarine in a game that was inactive in the first place over trying to get an inactive game actively hunting scum again. this may be considered WIFOM, but i will give mob the benefit of the doubt here.

however, that does not automatically make fox scummy for not beleiving mob, i mean, i'd be surpriced too if i was still alive by the time mob wrote that, because his hints didn't make any sense and he posted it in a way that was not really smart so he actually painted himself a bit scummy even though his intentions were good.

in fact i think they are both good and they are just both as confused, however what was even more interesting is how trinicardinal was doubting mob even more then fox, yet noone even replied to that, and on top of that, in the middle of the conversation that was mostly between trini, fox and mob, after mob got almost lynched and chap took a vote off, william all of a sudden votes fox without any reason given and after that a bandwagon starts to form against fox, without much reasoning other then the fact she never beleived mob, while mob was L-1 in the first place, so is't it a little hypocrite to vote fox for something you ALL did?

i'd say trini and william are acting the most scummy today. both of them voted either fox or mob, and none of them voted the same, which may be an attempt to distance from each other. even though trini didn't vote mob, he did doubt him just as much and nearly got mob lynched (note how he was on the wagon when mob was L-1)

Of course I doubted MoB - he keeps insisting he's vanilla but know information about who other vanilla's are. that means he is either scum, anti town, pigeon or informant. I gave him ample opportunities to soft claim pigeon or informant and showed possibilities as to how we might narrow it down but he kept insisting VT... that does not fit the rules so he's lying - as far as I see it lying = scum. His riddle cleared me so If I were scum i'd just shut up and say nothing. If you don't know that I'm town then does that mean that you are not/were not ever pigeon or informant??

[chapcrap]

His riddle cleared me so If I were scum i'd just shut up and say nothing. If you don't know that I'm town then does that mean that you are not/were not ever pigeon or informant??

This is true. Makes me more suspicious of MoB because you are suspicious.

[MoB Deadly]

His riddle cleared me so If I were scum i'd just shut up and say nothing. If you don't know that I'm town then does that mean that you are not/were not ever pigeon or informant??

This is true. Makes me more suspicious of MoB because you are suspicious.

If my riddle does indeed clear Trini, then there is only one other player that my riddle clears and is very obvious.

[zimmah]

ok after a quick read of the past day i noticed that the current case on mob/fox are quite weird.

mob basically left some information for town that is highly doubted, however, regardless of if it's valid information or not, mob would likely choose the submarine in a game that was inactive in the first place over trying to get an inactive game actively hunting scum again. this may be considered WIFOM, but i will give mob the benefit of the doubt here.

however, that does not automatically make fox scummy for not beleiving mob, i mean, i'd be surpriced too if i was still alive by the time mob wrote that, because his hints didn't make any sense and he posted it in a way that was not really smart so he actually painted himself a bit scummy even though his intentions were good.

in fact i think they are both good and they are just both as confused, however what was even more interesting is how trinicardinal was doubting mob even more then fox, yet noone even replied to that, and on top of that, in the middle of the conversation that was mostly between trini, fox and mob, after mob got almost lynched and chap took a vote off, william all of a sudden votes fox without any reason given and after that a bandwagon starts to form against fox, without much reasoning other then the fact she never beleived mob, while mob was L-1 in the first place, so is't it a little hypocrite to vote fox for something you ALL did?

i'd say trini and william are acting the most scummy today. both of them voted either fox or mob, and none of them voted the same, which may be an attempt to distance from each other. even though trini didn't vote mob, he did doubt him just as much and nearly got mob lynched (note how he was on the wagon when mob was L-1)

Of course I doubted MoB - he keeps insisting he's vanilla but know information about who other vanilla's are. that means he is either scum, anti town, pigeon or informant. I gave him ample opportunities to soft claim pigeon or informant and showed possibilities as to how we might narrow it down but he kept insisting VT... that does not fit the rules so he's lying - as far as I see it lying = scum. His riddle cleared me so If I were scum i'd just shut up and say nothing. If you don't know that I'm town then does that mean that you are not/were not ever pigeon or informant??

your behavoir after the chain of events is pretty strange to me, first, you are somewhat happy he cleared you, without even thinking twice about his alignment, then, after others voiced their doubts, you start taking the lead in doubting him, almost forcing him to go over the line and get modkilled, as there allready have been a few modkills, it wouldn't be unlikely mob would slip if under pressure and get himself killed, yet you still keep on pressuring him to either claim (and be modkilled) or don't claim and get lynched.

although i agree pressuring/lynching the 'informant' that cleared you doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, it doesn't automatically say you're town. even now you have your vote on him, even after he cleared you. i see some possible options, but they may not be all possible options, i may have missed some.

1) Mob is informant and you are town, but you don't believe him and think mobs riddle was a 'lucky shot' (probabilties are quite high for a lucky shot, majority is still town, and even if someone would be scum, they'd likely not complain about being cleared, so it's a win/win)
2) Mob is informant, but you're not town, and his riddle accidently cleared you or you're 3rd party and show up as innocent or 'not mafia' or something
3) Mob is VT and you're VT too. not sure how likely this is
4) Mob is scum and you are town, this is likely, but not neccesarily true
5) you're both scum, either the same party, or 2 different parties (2 mafia or mafia/SK) this is very likely, because there's 2 NKs almost every night. as a SK or competing mafia member, you may KNOW mob is lying because he cleared you and you're scum, so, knowing that you'd conclude mob must be from the other team because he's not in yours (or you're the SK and you're not in a team, so mob would also be a danger to you, because if town doesn't doubt you, you can just lay low, but still risk the nightkill every night, so it's actually a benefit to an SK to kill as much mafia before he starts killing town) so concluding mob is not in your team you'd think of him as a bigger danger then the rest of the people still alive and therefore would like to see him dead. if this is the case, which i think is one of the most likely scenarios (the facts seem to add up) then both trini and mob need to be lynched. altho with trini i get the feeling he may be the SK if there is one. (not sure if there's 2 factions or an SK or some other NK source, but i know ViolIet often puts SK in her stool pigeon mafias, sometimes even no mafia faction at all, but in a game this big i'd doubt there would only be 2 SKs) Mob, being a scum trying to get away with claiming informant, 'clearing' someone not in his team would be a near 100% guarantee that the person he cleared would be town, since he'd know almost all the bad guys, but doesn't want to give them away obviously, and being too afraid to slip up, he'd prefer to clear some VTs instead, and to make his claim beleivable he tried to make an accurate prediction first to give him some credit (even tho we can't really check the validity of his claim, this would be a good tactic normally, because even without confirmation we may get a good picture of someone after some events, and if that picture doesn't match we'd look for errors, like now, and try to match everything in a new arrangement untill you find a picture that looks the most like the old picture, but without errors, and from there on assume that picture is the right picture. i think i may have found a candidate for a new 'picture')

TL;DR version. i think trini is SK and mob is scum.

[MoB Deadly]

Why would I do that? That riddle would not help the SK not kill my scum buddies, if that is what I was worried about. Scum and SK can't win together, so how far will that take me? How on earth would I know that Trini was SK to begin with?

I will make a bigger post later, these are just my initial questions

[zimmah]

Why would I do that? That riddle would not help the SK not kill my scum buddies, if that is what I was worried about. Scum and SK can't win together, so how far will that take me? How on earth would I know that Trini was SK to begin with?

I will make a bigger post later, these are just my initial questions

i never said you knew he was sk. that's the whole point. you misread what i said.

[Eldario]

I musta agree that Zimmah never says that you knew Trini to be SK

and his riddle accidently cleared you or you're 3rd party and show up as innocent or 'not mafia' or something

[trinicardinal]

ok after a quick read of the past day i noticed that the current case on mob/fox are quite weird.

mob basically left some information for town that is highly doubted, however, regardless of if it's valid information or not, mob would likely choose the submarine in a game that was inactive in the first place over trying to get an inactive game actively hunting scum again. this may be considered WIFOM, but i will give mob the benefit of the doubt here.

however, that does not automatically make fox scummy for not beleiving mob, i mean, i'd be surpriced too if i was still alive by the time mob wrote that, because his hints didn't make any sense and he posted it in a way that was not really smart so he actually painted himself a bit scummy even though his intentions were good.

in fact i think they are both good and they are just both as confused, however what was even more interesting is how trinicardinal was doubting mob even more then fox, yet noone even replied to that, and on top of that, in the middle of the conversation that was mostly between trini, fox and mob, after mob got almost lynched and chap took a vote off, william all of a sudden votes fox without any reason given and after that a bandwagon starts to form against fox, without much reasoning other then the fact she never beleived mob, while mob was L-1 in the first place, so is't it a little hypocrite to vote fox for something you ALL did?

i'd say trini and william are acting the most scummy today. both of them voted either fox or mob, and none of them voted the same, which may be an attempt to distance from each other. even though trini didn't vote mob, he did doubt him just as much and nearly got mob lynched (note how he was on the wagon when mob was L-1)

Of course I doubted MoB - he keeps insisting he's vanilla but know information about who other vanilla's are. that means he is either scum, anti town, pigeon or informant. I gave him ample opportunities to soft claim pigeon or informant and showed possibilities as to how we might narrow it down but he kept insisting VT... that does not fit the rules so he's lying - as far as I see it lying = scum. His riddle cleared me so If I were scum i'd just shut up and say nothing. If you don't know that I'm town then does that mean that you are not/were not ever pigeon or informant??

your behavoir after the chain of events is pretty strange to me, first, you are somewhat happy he cleared you, without even thinking twice about his alignment, then, after others voiced their doubts, you start taking the lead in doubting him, almost forcing him to go over the line and get modkilled, as there allready have been a few modkills, it wouldn't be unlikely mob would slip if under pressure and get himself killed, yet you still keep on pressuring him to either claim (and be modkilled) or don't claim and get lynched. - Damned straight... Ofc I was glad he cleared me. Even more i was glad another "informant" was getting some information out although I thought I was missing something I took his words at face value. After a while I realised what the problem was - he could be mafia faking informant with a view to get townies killed or himself not lynched. I'm not saying he is but he could be. As for getting himself mod killed.. I never asked him to do that... all he had to do and still could do is ask Vio (via pm) if he could answer Yes/No to my question. His unwillingness to do that makes me suspicious. He keeps insisting he's VT when the riddle obviously inplies that he is not VT so either way he's lying somewhere. In my book townies have no reason to lie.

although i agree pressuring/lynching the 'informant' that cleared you doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, it doesn't automatically say you're town. even now you have your vote on him, even after he cleared you. i see some possible options, but they may not be all possible options, i may have missed some.

1) Mob is informant and you are town, but you don't believe him and think mobs riddle was a 'lucky shot' (probabilties are quite high for a lucky shot, majority is still town, and even if someone would be scum, they'd likely not complain about being cleared, so it's a win/win) - Damned right I have trouble believing him as I mentioned before
2) Mob is informant, but you're not town, and his riddle accidently cleared you or you're 3rd party and show up as innocent or 'not mafia' or something no accident - If MoB actually is informant then he knows that I am town and also says it in his riddle (the tone of it still leads me to be a bit suspicious though - we've been through this before.
3) Mob is VT and you're VT too. not sure how likely this is - I'd say almost impossible if MoB's riddle is based on knowledge he has... its more like I'm town - he's informant or mafia
4) Mob is scum and you are town, this is likely, but not neccesarily true - agreed as I said before he could be informant/pigeon
5) you're both scum, either the same party, or 2 different parties (2 mafia or mafia/SK) this is very likely, because there's 2 NKs almost every night. as a SK or competing mafia member, you may KNOW mob is lying because he cleared you and you're scum, so, knowing that you'd conclude mob must be from the other team because he's not in yours (or you're the SK and you're not in a team, so mob would also be a danger to you, because if town doesn't doubt you, you can just lay low, but still risk the nightkill every night, so it's actually a benefit to an SK to kill as much mafia before he starts killing town) so concluding mob is not in your team you'd think of him as a bigger danger then the rest of the people still alive and therefore would like to see him dead. if this is the case, which i think is one of the most likely scenarios (the facts seem to add up) then both trini and mob need to be lynched. altho with trini i get the feeling he may be the SK if there is one. (not sure if there's 2 factions or an SK or some other NK source, but i know ViolIet often puts SK in her stool pigeon mafias, sometimes even no mafia faction at all, but in a game this big i'd doubt there would only be 2 SKs) Mob, being a scum trying to get away with claiming informant, 'clearing' someone not in his team would be a near 100% guarantee that the person he cleared would be town, since he'd know almost all the bad guys, but doesn't want to give them away obviously, and being too afraid to slip up, he'd prefer to clear some VTs instead, and to make his claim beleivable he tried to make an accurate prediction first to give him some credit (even tho we can't really check the validity of his claim, this would be a good tactic normally, because even without confirmation we may get a good picture of someone after some events, and if that picture doesn't match we'd look for errors, like now, and try to match everything in a new arrangement untill you find a picture that looks the most like the old picture, but without errors, and from there on assume that picture is the right picture. i think i may have found a candidate for a new 'picture') - both scum is absolutely impossible given that I am VT. I'm glad you see the possiblity of MoB being scum... as I say I'm not sure but i don't trust what he is saying right now.

TL;DR version. i think trini is SK and mob is scum.

you're making me think its more like you and MoB are scum right now. but that could just be OMGUS on my part. I'll look back more clearly at your posts and MoB's when i can manage.

[MoB Deadly]

I think I will have more time to post tomorrow, I will make sure to answer zimmahs questions

[trinicardinal]

I think I will have more time to post tomorrow, I will make sure to answer zimmahs questions

MoB would you find out if you can answer my question to you with a Yes/No answer?

[trinicardinal]

I think I will have more time to post tomorrow, I will make sure to answer zimmahs questions

MoB would you find out if you can answer my question to you with a Yes/No answer?

EBWOP

Actually I'd like yes/No answers to these questions in particular (to start with).

1) Are you VT?
2) Are you an anti town role?
3) Are you Mafia?

Questions that would be nice to have answers to but require something more than Yes/No

4) How many townies remain alive
5) How many anti Town roles remain alive

I'll think of the others after. I have no problem with you clearing your answers with Vio before hand - in fact I strongly recommend it. I've been trying to get an answer to the first question for a while but you have not properly addressed it yet.

[MoB Deadly]

Can you restate the question, I cannot seem to find it. If it is a "gray area" question about my role, I will PM vio if you REALLY want me to, but I don't understand why answering in a yes or no form will achieve anything. I think I have made my position as clear as day.

fastposted................ okay, 1 minute..