Abuse of power

[HighlanderAttack]

I don't know why you guys waste your time responding to eddie. He's being obtuse, to say the least.

It amazes me if this was someone else --he would be going ape shit over the cheating aspect of it--guess that is why.


But at this point there is no reason to do anything but wait to see what is really done by the MODS

[JoshyBoy]

But at this point there is no reason to do anything but wait to see what is really done by the MODS

Reason isn't one of eddie's strong points....

[eddie2]

lol illegal point collecting. only people i have seen hit with that rule is people collecting from point dumpers or farmers.

show me the rule that says a multi hunter cannot bust a multi in a game he has joined if he new before or not. that is the rule that is not there. if there is a rule covering it then fair enough he is guilty. if there is not a rule covering it one needs to be added. and we move forward from it. If a mod does it again then you will have a case to argue. but at present like farming and collecting from point dumpers (which has a rule) the case against masli does not fall under any of them. trust me i wish i could be screaming abuse all the way but i cannot see any site rule broken or even a rule it could fall under.

[QoH]

lol illegal point collecting. only people i have seen hit with that rule is people collecting from point dumpers or farmers.

show me the rule that says a multi hunter cannot bust a multi in a game he has joined if he new before or not. that is the rule that is not there. if there is a rule covering it then fair enough he is guilty. if there is not a rule covering it one needs to be added. and we move forward from it. If a mod does it again then you will have a case to argue. but at present like farming and collecting from point dumpers (which has a rule) the case against masli does not fall under any of them. trust me i wish i could be screaming abuse all the way but i cannot see any site rule broken or even a rule it could fall under.

Considering there are 2 mods (Masli and eye84free) who have both done this, then I think there's something wrong.

And if this isn't illegal point collecting at the highest level, I have no fucking idea what is. Why do you need a specific rule to cover anything that might be considered wrong? This falls under the realm of illegal point collecting, at the least, if not under abuse of moderator powers.

[owenshooter]

Considering there are 2 mods (Masli and eye84free) who have both done this, then I think there's something wrong.

eye84free also did this? how did i not hear about that? it is amazing how public they make executions of "trouble makers", but when a mod is involved it is all behind closed doors and we never know what is said or done... wow... this is both troubling and disappointing...-el Jesus negro

p.s.-eddie, if you can't see that this is illegal point gathering, i really don't know what to tell you.

[EagleofGreenErth]

E84E did it as well, tho a formal topic accusing him was never made... mainly because the BS way this is being handled...

[QoH]

Considering there are 2 mods (Masli and eye84free) who have both done this, then I think there's something wrong.

eye84free also did this? how did i not hear about that? it is amazing how public they make executions of "trouble makers", but when a mod is involved it is all behind closed doors and we never know what is said or done... wow... this is both troubling and disappointing...-el Jesus negro

p.s.-eddie, if you can't see that this is illegal point gathering, i really don't know what to tell you.

Game 10198670
Game 10052924
Game 9741363
Game 9710066
Game 9710065

Game 9710066 and Game 9710065 are from the same user... which means its intentional

Crap, this is not good...

Add eye84free to accused list

From the original thread.

[jgordon1111]

In the way its stated in the rules "Illegal point collecting" Is defined as something that has previously been proscribed therefore illegal. What Eddie is saying is what masli has supposedly done is not defined in any rule therefore not Illegal. I believe that is the point he keeps referring to. It has to be a rule for it to be broken,it must be specifically defined to be Illegal. Therefore the call for rule updates makes sense. Cannot bust someone for a vague rule that is not clearly defined. Eddie if this isnt what you are talking about please be clear and specific.

[eddie2]

In the way its stated in the rules "Illegal point collecting" Is defined as something that has previously been proscribed therefore illegal. What Eddie is saying is what masli has supposedly done is not defined in any rule therefore not Illegal. I believe that is the point he keeps referring to. It has to be a rule for it to be broken,it must be specifically defined to be Illegal. Therefore the call for rule updates makes sense. Cannot bust someone for a vague rule that is not clearly defined. Eddie if this isnt what you are talking about please be clear and specific.

that is exactly what i am saying. it is like people who abuse the nuclear spoils setting (not ending turn to get the 5th card.) there is no rule stopping it but many of us see it as abuse.

[EagleofGreenErth]

Common sense would dictate that if you are entrusted with the power to ban players at your whim, you wouldn't get yourself into a position where you personally benefit from it... ESPECIALLY when you are one of the highest ranked on the scoreboard.

[Metsfanmax]

Common sense would dictate that if you are entrusted with the power to ban players at your whim, you wouldn't get yourself into a position where you personally benefit from it... ESPECIALLY when you are one of the highest ranked on the scoreboard.

This is rather short sighted. This problem is inevitable when you have people that both play the game and moderate it. It is unfortunate that our multi hunters have to themselves be part of the game, but we can't exactly find independent people to do the job. We have to draw from the community. As a result, there is simply no way to avoid this problem without explicitly telling the MHs to not scan people they are playing with. If that's what you really want, then you are not looking out for the best interests of the community -- you're just going on a tear against a single person. I can't believe anyone here would want to tell the MHs not to scan for multis so that they don't gain a few points. I want to hear you all say that you think it's better for multis to go unexposed so that Masli does not gain points. Otherwise, you need to drop it.

[EagleofGreenErth]

Common sense would dictate that if you are entrusted with the power to ban players at your whim, you wouldn't get yourself into a position where you personally benefit from it... ESPECIALLY when you are one of the highest ranked on the scoreboard.

This is rather short sighted. This problem is inevitable when you have people that both play the game and moderate it. It is unfortunate that our multi hunters have to themselves be part of the game, but we can't exactly find independent people to do the job. We have to draw from the community. As a result, there is simply no way to avoid this problem without explicitly telling the MHs to not scan people they are playing with. If that's what you really want, then you are not looking out for the best interests of the community -- you're just going on a tear against a single person. I can't believe anyone here would want to tell the MHs not to scan for multis so that they don't gain a few points. I want to hear you all say that you think it's better for multis to go unexposed so that Masli does not gain points. Otherwise, you need to drop it.

There is a difference between scanning for and taking advantage of... abuse is abuse... the occasionally "oops" is not what we have here...

[Metsfanmax]

Common sense would dictate that if you are entrusted with the power to ban players at your whim, you wouldn't get yourself into a position where you personally benefit from it... ESPECIALLY when you are one of the highest ranked on the scoreboard.

This is rather short sighted. This problem is inevitable when you have people that both play the game and moderate it. It is unfortunate that our multi hunters have to themselves be part of the game, but we can't exactly find independent people to do the job. We have to draw from the community. As a result, there is simply no way to avoid this problem without explicitly telling the MHs to not scan people they are playing with. If that's what you really want, then you are not looking out for the best interests of the community -- you're just going on a tear against a single person. I can't believe anyone here would want to tell the MHs not to scan for multis so that they don't gain a few points. I want to hear you all say that you think it's better for multis to go unexposed so that Masli does not gain points. Otherwise, you need to drop it.

There is a difference between scanning for and taking advantage of... abuse is abuse... the occasionally "oops" is not what we have here...

The only way that Masli could be in the wrong here is if he is intentionally joining games with people he knows to be multis and then busting them once he joins. Do you have any proof at all he is doing this? Isn't it possible he just happened to join a lot of games with multis?

[s3xt0y]

Common sense would dictate that if you are entrusted with the power to ban players at your whim, you wouldn't get yourself into a position where you personally benefit from it... ESPECIALLY when you are one of the highest ranked on the scoreboard.

This is rather short sighted. This problem is inevitable when you have people that both play the game and moderate it. It is unfortunate that our multi hunters have to themselves be part of the game, but we can't exactly find independent people to do the job. We have to draw from the community. As a result, there is simply no way to avoid this problem without explicitly telling the MHs to not scan people they are playing with. If that's what you really want, then you are not looking out for the best interests of the community -- you're just going on a tear against a single person. I can't believe anyone here would want to tell the MHs not to scan for multis so that they don't gain a few points. I want to hear you all say that you think it's better for multis to go unexposed so that Masli does not gain points. Otherwise, you need to drop it.

The problem with what your saying is if you look through the games, the ones that were being lost by masli had a much higher percentage of being busted than the ones that he was winning. This was the most interesting part of the whole situation to me. I think that the multi hunters need to be above this kind of point collecting. This whole issue could be solved if Masli does his "scan" before he joins a game, or if there was a little better multi hunting process.

[QoH]

I want to hear you all say that you think it's better for multis to go unexposed so that Masli does not gain points. Otherwise, you need to drop it.

How about you hear from us that we want the players to be banned either before or after the game is played. Not DURING the game where the MH gets the points.

Why should a MH be allowed to ban someone if they are losing to them? Game 10252517.

The only way that Masli could be in the wrong here is if he is intentionally joining games with people he knows to be multis and then busting them once he joins. Do you have any proof at all he is doing this? Isn't it possible he just happened to join a lot of games with multis?

Highly (very highly) unlikely. I've been in maybe 10 games out the of 3500 I've played that have had multis.

[EagleofGreenErth]

Metsfanmax wrote:The only way that Masli could be in the wrong here is if he is intentionally joining games with people he knows to be multis and then busting them once he joins. Do you have any proof at all he is doing this? Isn't it possible he just happened to join a lot of games with multis?

Why yes... here is a great example:

Game 9748435

2011-09-14 02:11:22 - Game has been initialized
2011-09-14 02:12:42 - schriber97 received 4 troops for 14 regions

2011-09-14 02:12:50 - Masli: Hmmmm, having fun with creating new accounts all the time ?

2011-09-14 02:16:48 - schriber97 was kicked out for violating the rules
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - Masli won the game
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - schriber97 lost 6 points
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - Masli gained 6 points


Within 2 minutes of the game having started, only 8 seconds after the guy took his first turn he knew it was a multi.

Game is over within 6 minutes...

When I was general I was RELUCTANT to join 1v1s against low ranks because of the risk associated with it... a loss against them equals a HUGE POINT LOSS... You just dont do that unless you KNOW you are set to win the game.

And knowing that the enemy player is a multi within TWO MINUTES of joining? WELL WHY'D YOU JOIN IF IT ONLY TOOK YOU THAT LONG TO FIGURE IT OUT?

As I said before, I saw this abuse and commented on it in another thread days before it was reported... its clear what the intentions were, I just thought you guys looked the other way on it... which of course is not cool for those who are wanting a top spot on the scoreboard!

[Metsfanmax]

The problem with what your saying is if you look through the games, the ones that were being lost by masli had a much higher percentage of being busted than the ones that he was winning. This was the most interesting part of the whole situation to me. I think that the multi hunters need to be above this kind of point collecting. This whole issue could be solved if Masli does his "scan" before he joins a game, or if there was a little better multi hunting process.

Who cares at what point in the game Masli scanned for them being a multi? If they're abusing site rules they should be gone. They shouldn't be let off with no punishment because they happen to be in a game with a multi hunter. I can't say that if I were losing a game, I would scan them out in hopes that I could ban them and save the points. But we don't know that Masli is doing it, and few people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

How about you hear from us that we want the players to be banned either before or after the game is played. Not DURING the game where the MH gets the points.

You ignored my earlier post. This is bad for CC. If Masli is playing a game and in Round 1 scans them to be a multi, he should ban them right then. If you think he should wait until the end of the game, that's possibly days or weeks of multis being allowed to roam CC and steal points from other players. You're hurting CC because you don't want Masli to gain points from someone that shouldn't have been allowed to be playing games anyways.

Highly (very highly) unlikely. I've been in maybe 10 games out the of 3500 I've played that have had multis.

Wrong. What you should be saying is that you've only seen multis get banned in those 10 games. That doesn't mean multis weren't playing in your games, and it doesn't mean they didn't get banned long after the fact (have you checked your past games to see how many of your opponents later got banned?).

Within 2 minutes of the game having started, only 8 seconds after the guy took his first turn he knew it was a multi.

That is not proof of what you're accusing him of. Is it not entirely possible that Masli joined the game, decided to scan the guy, found he was a multi, and banned him? Yes, this drama would have gone away had he chosen to scan the guy before he joined the game, but it is totally unreasonable for us to require that MHs scan every single person in every game they join. That's way too onerous of a request for our volunteers.

[QoH]

How about you hear from us that we want the players to be banned either before or after the game is played. Not DURING the game where the MH gets the points.

You ignored my earlier post. This is bad for CC. If Masli is playing a game and in Round 1 scans them to be a multi, he should ban them right then. If you think he should wait until the end of the game, that's possibly days or weeks of multis being allowed to roam CC and steal points from other players. You're hurting CC because you don't want Masli to gain points from someone that shouldn't have been allowed to be playing games anyways.

But what's stopping him from checking before he starts the game? ANd I see you ignored my question of why does he get to ban someone after he starts losing? To protect his precious points?

Highly (very highly) unlikely. I've been in maybe 10 games out the of 3500 I've played that have had multis.

Wrong. What you should be saying is that you've only seen multis get banned in those 10 games. That doesn't mean multis weren't playing in your games, and it doesn't mean they didn't get banned long after the fact (have you checked your past games to see how many of your opponents later got banned?).

Regardless. So in 10 games out of my 3500 I've seen a multi banned. To see 86 of 200-something with Masli is just completely improbable

[s3xt0y]

I think it basically falls down to this, there shouldn't be any points awarded to masli for players he busts that he is playing against. It is an unfair advantage for him to get points simply because he can ban people. PERIOD there is no argument against this, he is getting free points simply because of his position. That is unfair. I understand it is better for the community that these players are banned but where one player profits from the points of them getting banned it is not good for the community.

[Master Bush]

Can anyone tell if any of those booted were premium at the time of the ban?

[Metsfanmax]

But what's stopping him from checking before he starts the game?

Well, nothing's stopping him. But Masli is a volunteer and it's totally up to him when he wants to scan someone out. As I said in the same post, the drama might have gone away had he banned them before joining the game, but that doesn't make what he did wrong. Again, it's only wrong if you think it's net beneficial for CC for a multi to be let off the hook because he happens to be in a game with a MH. I want to hear you admit that before I can take this seriously. I'm saying this because I don't think anyone believes it's better for CC for multis to go unexposed, and I just want people to think it through fully before they do something unfair to one of our most valued staff members.

ANd I see you ignored my question of why does he get to ban someone after he starts losing? To protect his precious points?

Didn't ignore it, just responded to the same basic question in my response to s3xt0y.

Regardless. So in 10 games out of my 3500 I've seen a multi banned. To see 86 of 200-something with Masli is just completely improbable

This makes no sense. I would concede that your comparison is somewhat valid if only those 10 games had multis. But you haven't bothered to check how many actually had multis, nor could you really know because you don't have scanning tools. Another reason this comparison is irrelevant is because you could be playing totally different game types than Masli, and perhaps multis tend to favor the ones he plays over the ones you play. The only way that you could be getting somewhere with this line of argumentation is if you're accusing him of wrongful busts. But assuming they were all legitimate busts, then what are you actually saying? Make an accusation instead of vague insinuations if you're going to carry this through. What does it actually mean that a large percentage of his recent games had multis?

I think it basically falls down to this, there shouldn't be any points awarded to masli for players he busts that he is playing against. It is an unfair advantage for him to get points simply because he can ban people. PERIOD there is no argument against this, he is getting free points simply because of his position. That is unfair. I understand it is better for the community that these players are banned but where one player profits from the points of them getting banned it is not good for the community.

Now this is actually a good argument. Ultimately it is better for CC if we ban multis when we find them -- but you're right, Masli shouldn't be getting free points because of it. But to do this wouldn't we have to make it so that no one gains points from multis?

[Army of GOD]

Metsfanmax wrote:The only way that Masli could be in the wrong here is if he is intentionally joining games with people he knows to be multis and then busting them once he joins. Do you have any proof at all he is doing this? Isn't it possible he just happened to join a lot of games with multis?

Why yes... here is a great example:

Game 9748435

2011-09-14 02:11:22 - Game has been initialized
2011-09-14 02:12:42 - schriber97 received 4 troops for 14 regions

2011-09-14 02:12:50 - Masli: Hmmmm, having fun with creating new accounts all the time ?

2011-09-14 02:16:48 - schriber97 was kicked out for violating the rules
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - Masli won the game
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - schriber97 lost 6 points
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - Masli gained 6 points


Within 2 minutes of the game having started, only 8 seconds after the guy took his first turn he knew it was a multi.

Game is over within 6 minutes...

When I was general I was RELUCTANT to join 1v1s against low ranks because of the risk associated with it... a loss against them equals a HUGE POINT LOSS... You just dont do that unless you KNOW you are set to win the game.

And knowing that the enemy player is a multi within TWO MINUTES of joining? WELL WHY'D YOU JOIN IF IT ONLY TOOK YOU THAT LONG TO FIGURE IT OUT?

As I said before, I saw this abuse and commented on it in another thread days before it was reported... its clear what the intentions were, I just thought you guys looked the other way on it... which of course is not cool for those who are wanting a top spot on the scoreboard!

Any answer to this Mets?

Either Masli knew the other player was a multi as he entered the game (or at least had the suspicion it was a multi...either way, pretty sketchy) or he figured out he was a multi within 30 seconds of the game starting.

That just doesn't smell right to me.

[QoH]

What s3xt0y is saying is what we're all saying, just in different ways!

Again, it's only wrong if you think it's net beneficial for CC for a multi to be let off the hook because he happens to be in a game with a MH.

I"m not going to admit that. Besides, what I'm saying is wrong is that he shouldn't be allowed to bust multis in the middle of the game and wrongfully get those points. Either let the game play out (1v1s take a week at most, and if the player is freemium, how many more games are they gonna go win?) or check the games beforehand!

You just taking this argument in circles mets, and it isn't getting us anywhere. You're completely missing the entire point of what the community thinks and keep saying your dumb argument of "admit to me first that blah blah blah." Are you a lawyer?

[Metsfanmax]

Metsfanmax wrote:The only way that Masli could be in the wrong here is if he is intentionally joining games with people he knows to be multis and then busting them once he joins. Do you have any proof at all he is doing this? Isn't it possible he just happened to join a lot of games with multis?

Why yes... here is a great example:

Game 9748435

2011-09-14 02:11:22 - Game has been initialized
2011-09-14 02:12:42 - schriber97 received 4 troops for 14 regions

2011-09-14 02:12:50 - Masli: Hmmmm, having fun with creating new accounts all the time ?

2011-09-14 02:16:48 - schriber97 was kicked out for violating the rules
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - Masli won the game
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - schriber97 lost 6 points
2011-09-14 02:16:48 - Masli gained 6 points


Within 2 minutes of the game having started, only 8 seconds after the guy took his first turn he knew it was a multi.

Game is over within 6 minutes...

When I was general I was RELUCTANT to join 1v1s against low ranks because of the risk associated with it... a loss against them equals a HUGE POINT LOSS... You just dont do that unless you KNOW you are set to win the game.

And knowing that the enemy player is a multi within TWO MINUTES of joining? WELL WHY'D YOU JOIN IF IT ONLY TOOK YOU THAT LONG TO FIGURE IT OUT?

As I said before, I saw this abuse and commented on it in another thread days before it was reported... its clear what the intentions were, I just thought you guys looked the other way on it... which of course is not cool for those who are wanting a top spot on the scoreboard!

Any answer to this Mets?

Answered it already. I said my guess as to what happened is that Masli joined the game, scanned the guy, found he was a multi, and banned him. Why is that scenario so hard to swallow?

Note: I am not saying I am sure Masli is innocent, because I have the same evidence as everyone else. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, given how much he has contributed to this community. I'm going to need to see a lot more than specious implications to be convinced that there were nefarious intentions at work here.

I"m not going to admit that. Besides, what I'm saying is wrong is that he shouldn't be allowed to bust multis in the middle of the game and wrongfully get those points. Either let the game play out (1v1s take a week at most, and if the player is freemium, how many more games are they gonna go win?) or check the games beforehand!

You're contradicting yourself. If you think the game should play out, then you are saying that the multi should be let off the hook. You're saying that they should be given more time to break the rules on CC. You can't talk your way out of that. That's exactly what you're saying, and I want you to recognize it. No one is recognizing it. Everyone is so worried about Masli not getting free points that it honestly looks you all are on the multis' side here. I can't believe anyone is saying multis should not immediately be banned when found out.

[s3xt0y]

Ultimately this will fall in the cross hairs of the admins. Our opinions here won't be taken into consideration regarding Masli, however as a group I think we should work towards pushing the admins into making games with multi's in them where they get banned not worth any points. Or we should get more multi hunters, since apparently Masli is finding tons of them... ...(sorry I had too)