[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[trinicardinal]

wow l-3 i didn't realize that!

so medefe, jimfinn, swifte, rodion and epitaph are the ones that didn't cast a vote yet.
i wonder what the 2 quiet ones will do, but from what i read, epitaph and swifte think the same and aren't going to vote rodion.
Trini had a little something vs rodion and i think leitz and mob didn't comment anything on this case yet.

Jimfinn is still quite absent, so is medefe since the begining of the game. if we hit rodion and he results townie we will have no other choice than having strike as a number one suspect. and if we lynch him on day 3 and he results townie as well, we will be in a deep shit..

other option, can they be both scums and can all this be a play? hard to believe.
therefore, either 1 of them is scum (strike or rodion), either none of them, so 3 possibilities. voting for either one of them gives 2/3 chances of taking the wrong decision.
I think you can FOS them, but confronting one to the other is bad odds for town at this point of knowledge.

assuming there are 3-4 scums and a few unwanted neutrals, lynching jimfinn or medefe seems like a better option because the odds are roughly the same as rodion or strike, but in the event of being wrong we would lose less valuable players.

that's just my analyze for now. I just think rodion vs strike is a moot case.

My issue with Rodion was that I could not understand why he would use French nor did the context make sense at that point in time. We have since received an explanation which I consider to be satisfactory so I am way more concerned with jim and MeDeFe at this point in time. As you pointed out they are both still pretty quiet although I highly doubt absent. jim has stated that he doesn't really post unless he gets excited by a case so it would seem he's not very excitable given all that has been bandied about. As a result of this my vote is still on jim and I haven't seen enough to convince me to change it just yet.

[Epitaph1]

If we follow the argument that either Rodion or strike, but not both, are scum based on a comment by our mod in another game, I fear we are following a path that leads to no medal. The argument was tenuous to begin with--to be honest I thought Rodion suggested it more in jest than anything--and I'm afraid it could turn out very badly. At the very least, let's sleep on it one more night to see if anything develops and reconsider the situation on D3. Comments about talking in French remind me of our back-and-forth about the color blue on D1, and that got us pretty far.

vote jim

Jim is still more suspicious to me as he shows up enough to let us know he is checking the game but still has yet to weigh in on a case that excites him.

[Leitz]

Just so everybody knows, I'm following this thread daily despite not posting every time. About the Rodion/strike case, it is an unbalanced case based on a mods jokevote. I'm of the belief that safari, seeing he is mod, should be smart enough not to let things slip in posts in other topics about this game so I will not pull to hard on this. Jim and MeDeFe are the most quiet in this game, but jimfinn his posts have not convinced me changing votes. He says he only posts when he gets excited, but after all we've had some claims in D1, some nice activity here on D2 and his arguements just aren't well constructed. Unless he manages to change my mind, my vote stays. MeDeFe will also have to show some more activity and explain his inactivity in the conversations.

[strike wolf]

First I'd like it if we blocked off quotes rather than used color within the quotes. I've done it myself in the past however, lately I've been finding it harder to read (red is fine I can actually read it better than black but dark blue especially I find a bit harder to notice) and breeds more multicolored within quote posting that eventually becomes a little confusing when distinguishing who said what. Secondly, this may be a bit awkward looking...sorry if it is.

It's actually weirder than that not only does he seem to want me to have based a case on something safari said as a joke in another thread (for the record I trust safari not to consciously make that comment in a way that could jeopardize the fairness of his game so the fact he says it means very little to me in regards to how I proceed with this game) but for at least the third time in this game betiko followed his lead in taking action. I did not buy into any rodion or betiko case yesterday but between this abstract comment from rodion and betiko's consistent behavior indicating some kind of alliance.
vote rodion
fos betiko

humm sorry, can you name the "at least third time" i follow rodion's lead?
1. on the very begining of day 1 i said he was the one i would trust a little for trying to ask a question about voting for the guy below us on a list. what lead did i follow there? no case/vote was done there by either of us on anyone.

It is still an odd statement expressing some level of agreement with Rodion. I also said by itself it's not enough to implicate either of you as scum (I still disagree with the premise of the case against you two from day 1) but it's a noteworthy incident.

well yes, I did say I trusted a little rodion on day 1 and I still do, I don't really see how he's been scummy from the start.

2. rodion just makes a case about you on day 2. I ask you why you didn't suspect him, as that comment from safari should've make you have both suspicions about each other. I would ve definitely gone through my mind. I asked you a question, is that taking an action?

Rodion makes a case on a flimsy premise based on a joke vote and you follow him. There was a lot wrong with Rodion's question as I mentioned earlier. You seemed fairly confident that it was a good lead despite flaws. I consider that evidence of a connection and you did follow his lead in this instance.

really?? I don't know the context of the other game i'm not in. I just see that safari says something, that even taken as a joke vote still makes you wonder "wait, is he refering to the official game as well??" I think that not having a doubt is odd.

"Safari made a jokevote in the Golden Pantheon: Greek game stating that Strike and I have never been both town at the same game." Taken from Rodion's post itself. It was replied to by the comment you see in Rodion's post where chap made a joke about it. That's all the context you really need to understand.

putting rodion's case against you as something super scummy is strange. basically, if you vote for him it's because you do beleive either one of you is scum!! you are just justifying your vote by the fact that rodion believed for one second that safari's statement could apply here

You good sir have brought out a new level of twisting logic with this statement. I am not justifying my vote based on what safari said in that game. I do not vote for someone because of past history (If I was to do that I would have to vote for Rodion from the start of every game, I only did so once that I can remember and it was a joke scenario). I am justifying my vote based on what I have seen from Rodion in this game. I found his logic in presenting a case regarding a joke vote from another game questionable at best, I found him posting much more actively in another game than this one and I saw what appeared to be a connection between him and another player and I find him suspicious for these situations. My logic in voting Rodion having to do with safari's statement only goes as far as Rodion himself brought it into this game. I have not extended it beyond that and now you are twisting that around in a flawed manner.

So what exactly do you call "take at least 3 actions on rodion's leads??" ask you a question about the case he has against you? Do you have a selective memory or are you just trying to be manipulative? because when you count more than 3 I count 0, can you be more specific, or admit you got a little confused?

I'm still reviewing, I'll admit to one incident where I did get a bit confused (see above) but I do find significance in the link between you from these two incidents alone.

I don't remember any other exchanges with rodion, except for the movie link thing at the end of day 1

cause right now I am still holding on the jimfinn case and I m not the only one to find it fishy.

now could I vote against rodion? no problem about it, but I think that taking seriously what safari said in another game is not what I call a big case.

Betiko: I ask you why you didn't suspect him, as that comment from safari should've make you have both suspicions about each other.

I find these two comments just a bit contradictory. You agree that it is not a big case for taking what safari said seriously but you said earlier that the comment should have made me and rodion suspicious of each other. Basically you admit that what he said wasn't serious so logic would say I shouldn't take it serious but it should have made me suspicious of Rodion.

You are saying that we are linked, I just say that i would vote for him if there is a real case, and right now the case is that he took a joke vote from safari in another game as a lead. when i see what type of small nothings are taken here as leads, I wonder why that one is a crazy scummy idea. even if it's a jokevote (again i don't know the whole context) it does make you wonder, and if each time you guys are in the same game one of you 2 is scum and the other townie, well it naturally makes you think about it in this game!!

Reading back I may have misunderstood what you said there. Beyond that you wonder why I take it as scummy, because the logic is flawed and Rodion may not be locked into it but he really did stretch something that was an innocent joke vote into a possible tell. I've also described how I felt Rodion's approach to making the case was flawed.

As far as thinking about it? Maybe yea but it's a far cry from bringing it up as a legitimate case.

safari might have joke voted, but he said something that has been always true till then!! so i was surprised to see that it didn't make you suspect rodion. now you do because it made him suspect you!! and that is more fishy!!!

You are misrepresenting logic. You are oversimplifying the scenario. I gave my reasoning for why I feel that Rodion is a. overinflating a joke vote from another game. b. How the timing was off. C. A possible connection with another player and finally I also feel there is more evidence that i have yet to be able to get into.

Rodion - can you clear up these things for me?

Sure thing.

(and no, this is not OMGUS for having me prodded)

I'll be catching up later on the last 2 pages of this thread and look for an in-game lead, but if I don't see anything I'll default to thinking that:
a) Strike if scum (since I'm not).
b) if Strike dies and flips scum, Chap's behaviour in the Golden Pantheon game is indicative that he is also scum.

And if we lynch strike based on saf's joke in another thread and he flips town, then by default we have to lynch you next? Unfortunately, yes.

Does that all serve the town's best interest? If Strike is town, it doesn't.

How can you be confident it wouldn't come to that? I'm not! Check my post: no votes, no FOS, no nothing. I said that I'd be looking for an in-game lead and I'd only default to the Strike voting IF I didn't find an in-game lead. Either way, I felt like publicizing that evidence before I got killed, since it could bundle 2 scum in Strike/Chap, not to mention the reactions I'd get would be really valuable. For instance, if Strike flips town, I'd consider Epitaph to be 90% cleared (either that or he played pretty well).

May I ask why epitaph? Or did you mean to say Chap?

And if you're both town, then we've pretty much done the mobs job for them, taking out two of our stronger players on nothing more than the mods joke in another game. And if you're mafia then we've done your job for you, taking out one of the strongest players other than yourself, based on what appears to be an innocent joke. Maybe, if you're mafia, you think it is worth potentially sacrificing yourself to get strike out of the game, and besides, if strike goes first you may be able to weasle out of being lynched the next day anyway. The only way you lose is if you're both town. I didn't fully elaborate on that because as I said it was meant to be food for thought and a secondary lead in case nothing else arised, but obviously the logistics would not allow any weasling out. If we are to collectively decide to follow Saf' jokevote and lynch one of us, the other has to follow suit in case of a town flip. And since mafia has the minority of players, trading 1 for 1 is not good for mafia, not to mention my latest mafia factions tend to meltdown after I'm gone (check Zelda Mafia for a prime instance of that Yoshi/Shield/Dazza epic meltdown and Actors Mafia for some very questionable fakeclaims).

I don't think Actor's is a very good example. Mr. Squirrel did take some chances with his fake claim that did not work out but he ultimately met his downfall at the hands of a track and at least had people guessing. Fake claims usually aren't rock solid for the simple fact that it is all but impossible for them to be rock solid. Other than that, yeah I think that was kind of arrogant thing to say but not really any scum tell there.

Untill I see a real case against strike, I'm not bandwagoning this line of logic, and I find it really odd you're putting an weight on it at all. FOS

Yes, Jim over Medefe seems like a good start for D2 and with that I've fully read everything that was posted before my last post here.

If that's what you believe, why not actually vote for jim?

Because that comment applied to my catching up, that is, a read of every post until I made the Strike/Chap observation. My post then continued to account for a second catch up (every post after mine) and Jim has posted a little more after that, promising he'd start to contribute: I don't mind giving him a little time to prove that. Besides, I'm not a fan of constantly switching my vote around, so I usually take longer than others to form my conviction.

Personally I still need to re-read from both of jim and medefe before I can comment further.

fastposted by betiko

I'm also going to FOS Shield and Dazza (and, to a lesser extent, Trini) for the french incident. That was an extremely easy cop out to finding a voting target. Trini's situation is not as bad because there was no vote to go with it, but if you're voting someone for such a reason (like Shield and Dazza did), make your due diligence first and:
1 - translate what was said to your language (google is your friend)
2 - read the thread and try to understand what the hell is going on

We can agree on this part. It was weak reasoning and an easy cop out.

Strike, timing, really? I made a Nov 23 post saying I'd wait a couple of days before posting again and then I made a Nov 25 post. Can you really argue timing when my Nov 23 post had already established when I was going to post again? Do you think I only posted because you called me out and I just had to avoid being labeled as inactive? Think these things through and tell me if you still believe the timing is suspicious.

More or less. Not so much a direct inactive thing but I do find regardless of you waiting a couple days or not it was awfully convenient for you to come up with a post less than half an hour after I call attention to you.

[Rodion]

May I ask why epitaph? Or did you mean to say Chap?

I meant Epitaph. Assuming you and I are both town, scum would be drooling with the possibility of getting rid of one of us and then getting the other lynched the next day. Epitaph was the first to bring this up in a way to disencourage it, a move mafia would (or should) not have done. Yes, it has a certain dose of WIFOM in it, but if you flip town I'd feel good with giving Epitaph a free pass for days to come.

I don't think Actor's is a very good example. Mr. Squirrel did take some chances with his fake claim that did not work out but he ultimately met his downfall at the hands of a track and at least had people guessing. Fake claims usually aren't rock solid for the simple fact that it is all but impossible for them to be rock solid. Other than that, yeah I think that was kind of arrogant thing to say but not really any scum tell there.

Squirrel's was the best fakeclaim actually, except for the part in which he claimed to be bulletproof when he in fact wasn't. I was mainly referring to Blake botching his claim ("I forgot to send night actions because I thought I was dead"), not to mention he claimed a role that town was likely to have and subsequently counterclaim. PCM's claim of a useless role (naive/insane cop) didn't help either as he could be killed with little harm to town, even though by the time he was forced to claim it was a matter of time until town won.

I don't even want to get the Zelda discussion started, it was truly an epic meltdown after the SK targeted me 2 or 3 times in a row and everyone else started botching their claims.

While I try not to be arrogant gratuitously, I won't hesitate in doing so when I have a point to make.

More or less. Not so much a direct inactive thing but I do find regardless of you waiting a couple days or not it was awfully convenient for you to come up with a post less than half an hour after I call attention to you.

Here are the facts: I had sort of established the day I was going to post and you called me out during that day (I'm considering my timestamps, affected by my timezone). The promised post came within 30 minutes of your callout.

I actually fail to see what makes that timing scummy. How would scum profit from posting within half an hour of your call as opposed to waiting a few more hours? It makes no sense for scum to "rush" a post if there isn't even a semblance of a good reason to do so. You grasping at straws at this point only raises my suspicions regarding your alignment. You know, calling some one out when their self-imposed (and publicized) deadline approaches is an interesting way of making people think that they only responded because of your pressure (when they likely responded because of the deadline they had already established). Food for thought...

[strike wolf]

May I ask why epitaph? Or did you mean to say Chap?

I meant Epitaph. Assuming you and I are both town, scum would be drooling with the possibility of getting rid of one of us and then getting the other lynched the next day. Epitaph was the first to bring this up in a way to disencourage it, a move mafia would (or should) not have done. Yes, it has a certain dose of WIFOM in it, but if you flip town I'd feel good with giving Epitaph a free pass for days to come.

I would say 90% is a jump but I'm not going to go over itas I don't currently have any reason to suspect epitaph.

More or less. Not so much a direct inactive thing but I do find regardless of you waiting a couple days or not it was awfully convenient for you to come up with a post less than half an hour after I call attention to you.

Here are the facts: I had sort of established the day I was going to post and you called me out during that day (I'm considering my timestamps, affected by my timezone). The promised post came within 30 minutes of your callout.

I actually fail to see what makes that timing scummy. How would scum profit from posting within half an hour of your call as opposed to waiting a few more hours? It makes no sense for scum to "rush" a post if there isn't even a semblance of a good reason to do so. You grasping at straws at this point only raises my suspicions regarding your alignment.[/quote]

You know, calling some one out when their self-imposed (and publicized) deadline approaches is an interesting way of making people think that they only responded because of your pressure (when they likely responded because of the deadline they had already established). Food for thought...

Honestly when I made my post I hadn't recalled you saying that you would be posting in two days when I made that post. What I did notice was that you posted several times in another mafia thread in the mean time and you have not only been more active in that mafia during that two day stretch but also much more active in that thread in general. I was wondering why you were so active in that mafia but not posting here. Care to explain the difference in activity level?

[Rodion]

It's simple: just look at the vote count in MtG Mafia and you'll understand why I was busy there and didn't keep a high activity level in other games.

[chapcrap]

Here is my feeling again on the safari/Rodion/strike/chap/betiko thing:

• I don't think there is anything to it. I think that saf was joking.
• I don't understand how I am even getting lumped with strike in this anyway. I only jokevoted saf for what I thought was something funny. There was no intent there at all. Here is the link to my post in that thread. As you can see, it's just joke voting. Even if there was a slip by saf, I fail to see my inclusion.
• The vote against Rodion is solely because he is trying to legitimize a joke vote. I would hang someone for that in this game, let alone a joke vote from another game and then trying to parlay that into an actual vote. It's ridiculous. Of course, he will back off of this reasoning, because everyone will see how ridiculous it is, but to ignore that ridiculousness of it is wrong in my opinion.
• In response to Rodion saying that the reason he called out jonty and not strike or I during the initial voting for him, I voted quickly because I am in both games and understood the mechanics of what was going on.
• As far as betiko goes, since the weak day 1 case, he hasn't really done much that is scummy himself. The one thing he has done, from my point of view, is stuck by Rodion's side the whole way. It's just curious. Doesn't necessarily mean they are tied together or scum, but I find it odd. It does kind of feel like he's getting dragged into it, but I don't know if it's justifiable or not.

As for jimfinn and MeDeFe:

• If this stuff with Rodion hadn't happened, I would be voting for jim. He popped back in when the pressure started earlier, but has since disappeared again.
• The same is mostly true for MeDeFe, however, I would keep him over jim right now because of the how jim has popped in and out, giving nothing.

Lastly, I don't really think there is much of a case agaisnt Epitaph, however, I do see Rodion's reasoning and agree with him for the most part. If scum were to convince everyone to lynch both Rodion and strike wolf when they were town, that would be very detrimental and make the game much easier for the scum. So, I guess small FOS Epitaph, but not enough substance I think. Although, as I'm typing about it, I'm finding it more appealing to go for Epitaph. The type of strategy where 2 people are at odds and 1 is claiming the other is scum, is helpful to trade 1 town for 1 scum, but doesn't really apply here because no one has an investigation or anything. So, it's seeming more and more like Epitaph may be trying to pull a sneaky.

In conclusion, Rodion, WTF? A joke vote from another game? Please!

[Rodion]

[*]In response to Rodion saying that the reason he called out jonty and not strike or I during the initial voting for him, I voted quickly because I am in both games and understood the mechanics of what was going on.

How is the red part a response to the blue part?

Also, I think you didn't understand the Epitaph situation. I was talking about a scenario that would pretty much clear him, so I don't get the small FOS on him at all.

[chapcrap]

[*]In response to Rodion saying that the reason he called out jonty and not strike or I during the initial voting for him, I voted quickly because I am in both games and understood the mechanics of what was going on.

How is the red part a response to the blue part?

Also, I think you didn't understand the Epitaph situation. I was talking about a scenario that would pretty much clear him, so I don't get the small FOS on him at all.

Small FOS for trying to continue the ridiculous case that could result in 2 town deaths based on a joke vote from another games.

And the response is there because that is the reason I was able to come to my conclusion and vote you quickly. You called my vote and strike's vote 'preemptive OMGUS' votes. I was explaining that it wasn't the case. First, because I understood everything and was quickly able to decide what to do. Second, because there was never going to be a vote on me, because there is no case.

I would also like to add to the Rodion case by saying that he is jumping around and can't stay focused on one case. He brought up the joke vote from another game, then call's out Swifte. Then makes a passing remark about Epitaph possibly being scum, but could be cleared if we lynch strike and he is town (which doesn't even clear him anyway). Not only are you bringing up the ridiculous case without ever admitting it's ridiculous, you are jumping all over and ignoring the ridiculousness.

[Epitaph1]

[*]In response to Rodion saying that the reason he called out jonty and not strike or I during the initial voting for him, I voted quickly because I am in both games and understood the mechanics of what was going on.

How is the red part a response to the blue part?

Also, I think you didn't understand the Epitaph situation. I was talking about a scenario that would pretty much clear him, so I don't get the small FOS on him at all.

Small FOS for trying to continue the ridiculous case that could result in 2 town deaths based on a joke vote from another games.

And the response is there because that is the reason I was able to come to my conclusion and vote you quickly. You called my vote and strike's vote 'preemptive OMGUS' votes. I was explaining that it wasn't the case. First, because I understood everything and was quickly able to decide what to do. Second, because there was never going to be a vote on me, because there is no case.

I would also like to add to the Rodion case by saying that he is jumping around and can't stay focused on one case. He brought up the joke vote from another game, then call's out Swifte. Then makes a passing remark about Epitaph possibly being scum, but could be cleared if we lynch strike and he is town (which doesn't even clear him anyway). Not only are you bringing up the ridiculous case without ever admitting it's ridiculous, you are jumping all over and ignoring the ridiculousness.

My response to this:

If we follow the argument that either Rodion or strike, but not both, are scum based on a comment by our mod in another game, I fear we are following a path that leads to no medal. The argument was tenuous to begin with--to be honest I thought Rodion suggested it more in jest than anything--and I'm afraid it could turn out very badly. At the very least, let's sleep on it one more night to see if anything develops and reconsider the situation on D3. Comments about talking in French remind me of our back-and-forth about the color blue on D1, and that got us pretty far.

vote jim

Jim is still more suspicious to me as he shows up enough to let us know he is checking the game but still has yet to weigh in on a case that excites him.

Really, chap? Everything I have said about saf's comment in the Golden Pantheon game is that it's a red herring. And you're accusing me of perpetuating the situation? FOS chap until he starts reading my posts.

[betiko]

I think you still didn t understand what rodion said in the first place about epitaph. You are assuming epitaph said the opposite of what he actually did, you should reread what was said chap. There is something i didn t get about rodion s reasoning, and it s about the fact he kind of included chap in the strike case?

Fastposted

[strike wolf]

[*]In response to Rodion saying that the reason he called out jonty and not strike or I during the initial voting for him, I voted quickly because I am in both games and understood the mechanics of what was going on.

How is the red part a response to the blue part?

Also, I think you didn't understand the Epitaph situation. I was talking about a scenario that would pretty much clear him, so I don't get the small FOS on him at all.

Small FOS for trying to continue the ridiculous case that could result in 2 town deaths based on a joke vote from another games.

And the response is there because that is the reason I was able to come to my conclusion and vote you quickly. You called my vote and strike's vote 'preemptive OMGUS' votes. I was explaining that it wasn't the case. First, because I understood everything and was quickly able to decide what to do. Second, because there was never going to be a vote on me, because there is no case.

I would also like to add to the Rodion case by saying that he is jumping around and can't stay focused on one case. He brought up the joke vote from another game, then call's out Swifte. Then makes a passing remark about Epitaph possibly being scum, but could be cleared if we lynch strike and he is town (which doesn't even clear him anyway). Not only are you bringing up the ridiculous case without ever admitting it's ridiculous, you are jumping all over and ignoring the ridiculousness.

Chap I've mostly agreed with your points as far as Rodion is concerned (The case is weak enough and so bloated with wifom that in my eyes completely misrepresented two joke votes that I do not see why Rodion would bring it up as any kind of legitimate lead whether he regards it as weak himself or not. On day 2, it's really not even note worthy) but I'm not sure why perpetuate the Epitaph scenario. I haven't really any reason to suspect Epitaph beyond any reasoning that would connect him to Epitaph and it's still too early to really say that. Not to mention you seem to be misrepresenting Epitaph's position in all of this.

Fastposted: Perhaps you should read back through Rodion's initial statement. It featured something chap said as a joke vote fairly prominently.

[Rodion]

[*]In response to Rodion saying that the reason he called out jonty and not strike or I during the initial voting for him, I voted quickly because I am in both games and understood the mechanics of what was going on.

How is the red part a response to the blue part?

Also, I think you didn't understand the Epitaph situation. I was talking about a scenario that would pretty much clear him, so I don't get the small FOS on him at all.

Small FOS for trying to continue the ridiculous case that could result in 2 town deaths based on a joke vote from another games.

Ok, please present the evidence that I'm trying to continue the case, because it doesn't feel like I'm trying to. Or are you trying to imply that you should be immune to any sort of scrutiny from now on, even when your posts don't make sense?

Besides, you don't really have to FOS or small FOS people you are currently voting for.

And the response is there because that is the reason I was able to come to my conclusion and vote you quickly. You called my vote and strike's vote 'preemptive OMGUS' votes. I was explaining that it wasn't the case. First, because I understood everything and was quickly able to decide what to do. Second, because there was never going to be a vote on me, because there is no case.

Oh, so the red part is not a response to the blue part. The red part is a response to something that wasn't even quoted. I said the reason I asked for Jonty's reasoning was that he had not presented one, while Strike and you had. Saying that you only voted quickly because you knew the context doesn't quite answer anything that had to be answered.

I would also like to add to the Rodion case by saying that he is jumping around and can't stay focused on one case. He brought up the joke vote from another game, then call's out Swifte. Then makes a passing remark about Epitaph possibly being scum, but could be cleared if we lynch strike and he is town (which doesn't even clear him anyway). Not only are you bringing up the ridiculous case without ever admitting it's ridiculous, you are jumping all over and ignoring the ridiculousness.

If you have a problem with me asking why Swifte had not posted at all during D2, then please elaborate on what the problem is.

And you really need to read the Epitaph thing better. You gave the man a FOS while thinking that I was jumping all over accusing people and he was among those people. So, basically, you tried to say I'm throwing bullshit all around, yet you still managed to "agree" with me by granting him the small FOS, which is the exact opposite of what I said.

[chapcrap]

[*]In response to Rodion saying that the reason he called out jonty and not strike or I during the initial voting for him, I voted quickly because I am in both games and understood the mechanics of what was going on.

How is the red part a response to the blue part?

Also, I think you didn't understand the Epitaph situation. I was talking about a scenario that would pretty much clear him, so I don't get the small FOS on him at all.

Small FOS for trying to continue the ridiculous case that could result in 2 town deaths based on a joke vote from another games.

Ok, please present the evidence that I'm trying to continue the case, because it doesn't feel like I'm trying to. Or are you trying to imply that you should be immune to any sort of scrutiny from now on, even when your posts don't make sense?

Besides, you don't really have to FOS or small FOS people you are currently voting for.

The FOS was for Epitaph, not you. I will now remove it because I was confused by Rodion's posts and that's what made me think that. Clearly, I should have went back and read Epitaph's posts myself because Rodion has been skimming a lot lately and messing things up and misinterpreting things. (including this). Sorry Epitaph.

I would also like to add to the Rodion case by saying that he is jumping around and can't stay focused on one case. He brought up the joke vote from another game, then call's out Swifte. Then makes a passing remark about Epitaph possibly being scum, but could be cleared if we lynch strike and he is town (which doesn't even clear him anyway). Not only are you bringing up the ridiculous case without ever admitting it's ridiculous, you are jumping all over and ignoring the ridiculousness.

If you have a problem with me asking why Swifte had not posted at all during D2, then please elaborate on what the problem is.

And you really need to read the Epitaph thing better. You gave the man a FOS while thinking that I was jumping all over accusing people and he was among those people. So, basically, you tried to say I'm throwing bullshit all around, yet you still managed to "agree" with me by granting him the small FOS, which is the exact opposite of what I said.

I don't have a problem with Swifte being pressured. I have a problem with you bouncing all over and not answering things directly. Here are some direct questions:

• What made you think a joke vote from another game could be legitimized?
• Even if you wanted to try to legitimize that joke vote, how am I even tied into saf's post?
• Why are you skimming so much?
• Why are you bouncing around so much? (strike, chapcrap, Swifte, Epitaph...)
• Are you actually going to make a case against someone or just keep acting like you're helping by throwing out things against everyone in the game?

[MoB Deadly]

These are all very serious cases, I will give my input either tonight or tomorrow

[MoB Deadly]

Just skimming, jim has not commented on the cases. I would REALLY prefer if you would weigh in your opinion as well

[betiko]

Serious cases? I see a lot hair pulling and omgus here and there since yesterday with peuple living opinions about posts they didn t even read properly.. Not ver y sure all this is ver y constructive..

[betiko]

Sorry, stupid iPad changing word s i write!

[Rodion]

The FOS was for Epitaph, not you. I will now remove it because I was confused by Rodion's posts and that's what made me think that. Clearly, I should have went back and read Epitaph's posts myself because Rodion has been skimming a lot lately and messing things up and misinterpreting things. (including this). Sorry Epitaph.

No way! I did make a mistake regarding the L-2 thing and that was it. Everything else is you skimming and trying to make me look scummy with phrases such as the one in red.

I don't have a problem with Swifte being pressured. I have a problem with you bouncing all over and not answering things directly. Here are some direct questions:

I have no problem answering things directly. I'f I've missed any questions adressed to me, feel free to point them out and I'll answer them on my next post.

• What made you think a joke vote from another game could be legitimized? Your reaction to it.
• Even if you wanted to try to legitimize that joke vote, how am I even tied into saf's post? You are not tied into Saf's post. Why would you?
  You are tied into your reaction to Saf's post. YOU were the one who brought the Official game up into your jokevote. All I said is that, if Strike (or I) actually flips scum, you bringing up the Official game in the Golden Pantheon's jokevote would force me to suspect you were Strike's scumbuddy. You shouldn't need to get defensive until Strike dies, because he could flip anything. Unless...
• Why are you skimming so much? I skimmed once and I apologized for it. You are the one who seem to be skimming tons since the Epitaph situation, but you're too stubborn to realize/admit it. Doubt me? Ask anyone else.
• Why are you bouncing around so much? (strike, chapcrap, Swifte, Epitaph...) I'm not bouncing at all, I just comment on things I find useful. Epitaph shouldn't even be mentioned because that is all you not understanding a text. Swifte had not posted at all and that is not the kind of behaviour I'd like to incentivate, regardless of whether he's fully cleared or not (for the record, he's above 90%, but not 100%). Strike and Chap, you already know why I brought you too up.
• Are you actually going to make a case against someone or just keep acting like you're helping by throwing out things against everyone in the game? Read above. I'm not throwing things against everyone. Swifte was not accused of anything, I just wanted him to participate. Epitaph is your lack of comprehension. I'll make a case against someone (or agree with someone else's) when I feel convinced enough.

[MoB Deadly]

These are all very serious cases, I will give my input either tonight or tomorrow

Sorry for my comment. I misinterpreted Quanity for Quality. There's not much here, but there is something here that definitely bothers me.

1. Chap says:

Lastly, I don't really think there is much of a case agaisnt Epitaph, however, I do see Rodion's reasoning and agree with him for the most part. If scum were to convince everyone to lynch both Rodion and strike wolf when they were town, that would be very detrimental and make the game much easier for the scum. So, I guess small FOS Epitaph, but not enough substance I think. Although, as I'm typing about it, I'm finding it more appealing to go for Epitaph. The type of strategy where 2 people are at odds and 1 is claiming the other is scum, is helpful to trade 1 town for 1 scum, but doesn't really apply here because no one has an investigation or anything. So, it's seeming more and more like Epitaph may be trying to pull a sneaky.

2. Then Rodion comments to Chap

Also, I think you didn't understand the Epitaph situation. I was talking about a scenario that would pretty much clear him, so I don't get the small FOS on him at all.

3. Then Chap to Rodion

The FOS was for Epitaph, not you. I will now remove it because I was confused by Rodion's posts and that's what made me think that. Clearly, I should have went back and read Epitaph's posts myself because Rodion has been skimming a lot lately and messing things up and misinterpreting things. (including this). Sorry Epitaph.

How do you say Rodion has been skimming?? After you JUST apologized for not going back and rereading Epi's intentions.

Same post from Chap to Rodion

Why are you bouncing around so much? (strike, chapcrap, Swifte, Epitaph...)

In the same post you apologize, but then accuse Rodion again for jumping to Epi.

Those comments made by chap definitely bother me.


jimfinn!!, Okay I'll play by your rules. You say you don't post often, (which I believe is scummy because you are afraid of lying). You say you post when a case excites you. Fine, if these cases dont excite you, I want a reason why NOT. I think he is hardcore submarining, and hoping this side tangent gets momentum.

The whole case between Strike/Rodi +other commentors. I see absolutely nothing here. As Betiko said, its definitely not worth the risk of losing 2 better townies, based off a jokevote in a different game. I think we should move on from this.

[chapcrap]

First off,

First I'd like it if we blocked off quotes rather than used color within the quotes. I've done it myself in the past however, lately I've been finding it harder to read (red is fine I can actually read it better than black but dark blue especially I find a bit harder to notice) and breeds more multicolored within quote posting that eventually becomes a little confusing when distinguishing who said what.

Second,

• What made you think a joke vote from another game could be legitimized? Your reaction to it.

So, you brought it up because you could see the future and know what my reaction would be? That's not even a good answer. Everyone's reaction is that it's ridiculous.

Even if you wanted to try to legitimize that joke vote, how am I even tied into saf's post? You are not tied into Saf's post. Why would you?
You are tied into your reaction to Saf's post. YOU were the one who brought the Official game up into your jokevote. All I said is that, if Strike (or I) actually flips scum, you bringing up the Official game in the Golden Pantheon's jokevote would force me to suspect you were Strike's scumbuddy. You shouldn't need to get defensive until Strike dies, because he could flip anything. Unless...

Bad logic.

Why are you skimming so much? I skimmed once and I apologized for it. You are the one who seem to be skimming tons since the Epitaph situation, but you're too stubborn to realize/admit it. Doubt me? Ask anyone else.

Why are you bouncing around so much? (strike, chapcrap, Swifte, Epitaph...) I'm not bouncing at all, I just comment on things I find useful. Epitaph shouldn't even be mentioned because that is all you not understanding a text. Swifte had not posted at all and that is not the kind of behaviour I'd like to incentivate, regardless of whether he's fully cleared or not (for the record, he's above 90%, but not 100%). Strike and Chap, you already know why I brought you too up.

Are you actually going to make a case against someone or just keep acting like you're helping by throwing out things against everyone in the game? Read above. I'm not throwing things against everyone. Swifte was not accused of anything, I just wanted him to participate. Epitaph is your lack of comprehension. I'll make a case against someone (or agree with someone else's) when I feel convinced enough.

I wasn't skimming, I just didn't go back and re-read what Epi had written and took your word for what he said.

Lastly,

These are all very serious cases, I will give my input either tonight or tomorrow

Sorry for my comment. I misinterpreted Quanity for Quality. There's not much here, but there is something here that definitely bothers me.

After that, you think I'm a skimmer? I misinterpreted one thing because Rodion was being confusing. I didn't misinterpret the whole thread.

[betiko]

oh ok mob, you were talking qantity and not quality!

I kind of see this rodion/chapcrap conflict as an ego thing.
I asked a question to which no one answered but just got the explanation. I didn't understand in the first place what chap had to do in rodion's case against strike, and well, it's just because it is some conversations in that greek pantheon game from what i read.

Chapcrap, I think you d better let go the thing about rodion/epitaph; cause you first missinterpretated epitaph, then what rodion said about his comment, then again what rodion reexplained... you were a bit stuborn on this case, and when you make a mistake you can accept more easily the l-2/l-3 confusion...

regarding swifte: I do believe his doctor claim, i think if there was another doctor there woud've been no reason to come out.
So who has seen the movie? because for me this caracter is a bad guy, he is really mean to sally and doesn't let her do anything, he locks her up ect..
If saf had to chose a character for the doc, it had to be frinkelstein for sure though.
For those who have already played games moded by safari; does he have a setting in mind first then gives the roles to the most apropriate character from the theme, or does he tend to create roles to the characters of the theme that would suit them best?

Because if it's the second answer, there is a chance that our swifte aka doctor frinkelstein is more than just a doctor... and I'm thinking of something neutral rather than something scummy. serial killer doctor or something??? lol

[Rodion]

Since you're having such a hard time to understand what I say, I'll try to make it as clear as possible.

So, you brought it up because you could see the future and know what my reaction would be? That's not even a good answer. Everyone's reaction is that it's ridiculous.

No, I meant your reaction in the Golden Pantheon game. When I quoted Safari's post, I also made sure I included your quote replying to Saf. Let me refresh your memory.

unvote vote Rodion. In games with both him and strike, one of them has to be mafia.

As mod of the official game with both of them in it, I fear you have spoken too much and must be destroyed!

unvote vote saf

Blue was Safari's comment. Red was "your reaction to it".

Bad logic.

How come?

I wasn't skimming, I just didn't go back and re-read what Epi had written and took your word for what he said.

You took my word for what he said and then you confused yourself. Was my word false? If so, show proof.

[chapcrap]

Since you're having such a hard time to understand what I say, I'll try to make it as clear as possible.

So, you brought it up because you could see the future and know what my reaction would be? That's not even a good answer. Everyone's reaction is that it's ridiculous.

No, I meant your reaction in the Golden Pantheon game. When I quoted Safari's post, I also made sure I included your quote replying to Saf. Let me refresh your memory.

That makes more sense.

unvote vote Rodion. In games with both him and strike, one of them has to be mafia.

As mod of the official game with both of them in it, I fear you have spoken too much and must be destroyed!

unvote vote saf

Blue was Safari's comment. Red was "your reaction to it".

I was confused about who said what. That was helpful.

Bad logic.

How come?

Because. When everyone is joke voting, whoever gets on next just does the next joke vote. That's what happened. Just because I was the one who caught it, doesn't make me strike's scum partner. And if it did, why would I point it out? And with your logic, I could just as easily be your scum partner. So, if one of you are scum, you are already saying I have to be. Add that to the fact that it was a joke vote, based on a joke vote. And the reason I'm getting defensive about tha early is because I don't want tied to either one of you when there is no reason to be.

I wasn't skimming, I just didn't go back and re-read what Epi had written and took your word for what he said.

You took my word for what he said and then you confused yourself. Was my word false? If so, show proof.

Chapcrap, I think you d better let go the thing about rodion/epitaph; cause you first missinterpretated epitaph, then what rodion said about his comment, then again what rodion reexplained... you were a bit stuborn on this case, and when you make a mistake you can accept more easily the l-2/l-3 confusion...

As I said before I messed up about the Epitaph thing. I was confused by Rodion and his commentary about it with strike. I no longer consider Rodion to have skimmed, I consider myself to have misinterpreted what was written.

I kind of see this rodion/chapcrap conflict as an ego thing.
I asked a question to which no one answered but just got the explanation. I didn't understand in the first place what chap had to do in rodion's case against strike, and well, it's just because it is some conversations in that greek pantheon game from what i read.

I can't argue with that.

All of that said. It's still ridiculous to carry on with discussion about this joke vote from the other game. And I don't know why Rodion does not agree with that.