[Official] Futurama Mafia Town Wins! PCM wins Premium

[strike wolf]

I had to redo part of it which has made it take a lot longer than I wanted it to but I should have something up tonight.

[safariguy5]

QOTD:

Zapp Brannigan: We need rest. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised.

Vote Count

strike(1)- GEQ
GEQ(1)- jonty

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline in 2 days.

[strike wolf]

Wednesday July 13th, 2011:

Yup, exactly.

I'm surprised at you, Commie. Instead of wanting a replacement for Saxlad, you seem to be advocating a straight lynch here. What's the deal?

-Tails

There's a difference between pressuring and lynching. Saxlad is around and is posting in the forums - I don't mind pressuring him. If what, we can always replace, but since everyone is basically stuck and not doing anything, this at least may prove to be beneficial in the longer term.

Ok my problem with this post is as follows.

1. Saxlad had not been overly active in the mafia forums for a long time.

2. Saxlad was not active in any other public forum.

3. Commander was games with saxlad and saxlad had not been active in them.

4. Commander was in a game that saxlad hosted and saxlad had shown himself to only be sparsely active as the mod in that game.

5. Commander hosted a game where saxlad was mostly inactive.

6. It's possible but no commander is usually one of the more hesitant ones to pressure an inactive.

So all in all, I don't see how this adds up to saxlad being active and commander was in a position where he should have been aware that saxlad was not active in the forums. commander asserting that saxlad was "around and posting in the forums" does not appear to fit the truth of the matter. even after his later explanation:

I'm gonna go ahead and vote com9 and fos naxus. To suggest that someone who hasn't posted on the forums since Sunday is around and posting sounds to me like you two didn't do any actual research into the actual case. Com9 I especially feel has been trying to make himself look very pro town without stepping too far outside of the lines.

I've been discussing a tournament with him during the weekend (a couple of PM's) and he was quick to respond, which means he's around. He also has one post yesterday on Squishy's group forum, so he IS around. To suggest something like that without doing any research sounds like Strike is trying to look very pro town without stepping too far outside of the lines

Timeline:
May-now: Saxlad's activity decreased significantly from what it had been previously (especially through June-August).

July 5-8th: sax sparse

July 5-9th, 2011: game mostly in joke phase

July 7th, 2011: previous last post by sax.

July 8-10, 2011: roughly what would have been the time frame in which these messages would have been sent if over the weekend. Sax posts a total of 5 times with short comments in his game

July 9th-16: Sax lad doesn't post.

July 10th: Tails is first to vote sax for submarining.

July 11-13th: saxwagon starts picking up.

July 13th, 2011: around when com says Sax posted once in Squishy's forum. Commander claims saxlad is active.

Maybe my definition is different but I'm not seeing the evidence for Sax being all that active even with the pms and the single post. I can vouch that Sax didn't post much anywhere else that I could see him during this time frame and considering his faltering was a lingering problem, it seems the case on him was exaggerated by comm. Also considering that mafia is different from other forums and parts of this site in that it carries a different level of responsibility like taking your turn in your games or performing possible mod duties, it's not practical to really bring in outside posting fully into the light in this forum (something I learned through pancake).

I suppose I should have made the first part more obvious I was joking around. But like I said if the pms were over the weekend and he's only made one post in a private forum since, it only proves my point that he hasn't been active in the forums particularly since sunday. He and naxus seemed to be suggesting he was active with their comments. I don't consider one post since Sunday solid so I'm calling them out on that and I found it scummy to suggest such in a situation where at least in my eyes that didn't hold true. I'm not saying it's rock solid evidence but it is something.

The main point that he's around as much as anyone. I've never said it was a strong case - I just voted an inactive, yet you're trying to show it as I've actually made it a full fledged case and now you're trying to attach it on me and pursue me as a big mean inactive hunter. I'm sorry strike, but that deserves a FoS.

If you just want to chase the inactive what's the point of pointing him out as "around as much as anyone"? This is fishy when commander should know that he wasn't around as a lot of people. and commander should know that. He tries to flip the case back against me while underselling his part in it. Commander seems to have tried to sell him as not only inactive in this game but active elsewhere but now he's decided to backtrack as it is just an "inactive".

Yes you voted an inactive which from my experience tends to be out of character for you. Were you not the one beating up on the victor sullivan wagon in POTC mafia for being against an inactive? You've maintained silence against those on this wagon which is fine it's a perfectly ok wagon overall with traditional pressuring of an inactive. I'm only against those who seem to be trying to point out he is active which isn't really true. Also no I don't think you're trying to use it to get him lynched but I do feel you are trying to create some kind of air of protowniness by asserting that he is active and making it look like it is a bit more than a common inactive hunt. It isn't. I felt the same way about your premature cry to get a discussion going and I will back up my opinion.

This is slightly different than the Sully wagon in POTC. First of all, I was the 1st one to place a serious vote and it was 2nd vote on Saxlad - he had absolutely no pressure and this hadn't moved him anywhere near towards the lynch. The only thing that it did it gave some pressure. Sully's wagon was already established and growing when I said that I won't vote him and that I don't approve that. I don't see how this is out of character for me. At all. Again, with that "protowniness" - that's pretty much your main argument (and quite ineffective too). What I do here is nothing different what I normally do, so I don't understand this. Furthermore, you also know that I always like discussions and get into those (Remember the "painful Lebowski debate") and I'm encouraging them any way that I can.

I fail to see how it was hugely different than the sully bandwagon in POTC game. Other than your side in it. Both were more or less inactive bandwagons though the case on sully also had elements of lurking to it. The difference here is you decided to jump an inactive bandwagon where in POTC you suggested inactive bandwagons were more or less wastes of time and it is better to replace the person.

Also, if Nibbler was a SANE TOWN COP (specifically) that means we probably also have another cop who is insane. Basically, what that means, if you are a cop and you got an innocent result... You got scum.

Qft on the doc possibly being naive. Don't rush into something becaus e you got an innocent result and commander (who is still rising up my scum ladder) suggests you may be insane.

As far as the doomsday device. I think you guys are a bit off track on the role that was responsible for that kill however I'm not convinced it is best for me to reveal my thoughts on that kill.

Now now, don't be a rebel without any good cause You're such a James Dean character.

I've never said that they're supposed the results straight away, but that it's extremely likely that they may have caught a scum.

This part is interesting to me. Despite his excuse, it still looks in my eyes that he may have been trying to push a cop with ambiguous sanity into possibly making an early claim.

To be fair, Freezie, you're sort of bringing this on your own. You FoS Gilligan, who's most likely town (I'm fairly sure Haggis wouldn't make such a risky move and did what he did if he wasn't town) and you also continuously have a "thing" for Andy (tunnel vision, if you will) without providing any real substance to the game. Since the vote count is already somewhat high, I won't put mine just yet, but I'm looking forward to hear the response and possibly your claim.

He comes back from his last post saying he was going to read up on the thread and he comes back and his post immediately has two major things that are not accurate to what's happening in the game. Even if he was busy this seems unusually careless coming from Commander. I wouldn't even give this as much credit as I am but the truth of the matter is these two things he mistook were major parts of what happened in the day and it looks from my angle something that's been repeated and too important to make a stupid mistake on unless he was only skimming the thread.

It's not really a "detail" if it's the foundation to one's reasoning and most of a case for much of a day phase, some mistakes are understandable, but if we just chalk everything up to that there is no point in the word "skimming" in the first place.

And exactly how many times have I been caught skimming? Very little. I probably should have double checked, but this is normally not exactly known as my characteristics. Furthermore, I've been quite inactive in all mafia forums (and CC), so I really do think that you are trying to pin this one mistake and possibly derail attention from a much more valid case to me.

I find this to be a fairly ineffective argument. I stated why I am not really buying the not having been here excusse so that leaves the Skimming not being a norm for him. A lot of time cases are built on what is OUT of the norm for a character not what is in the norm. beyond that just because you haven't been caught does not mean you haven't skimmed. Let's go back to wehre you mixed up information on the scene for an example of another incident that could be skimming in this thread:

I'm assuming the shadowy group would be moms goons and them with mom would be a perfect 4 group mafia (3 goons + GF). The doomsday device reference is a somewhat of a bigger mystery, but scammers (probably the main scammer would be the best bet) did used to have those and would fit SK flavour.

beyond any wifom reasons, he seems to have missed the Santa Claws kill all together in this initially and had to be corrected before it was acknowledged.

Do not mistake acknowledging a new event as "derailing" current cases, suspicion is being cast all around, there is no point in ignoring something suspect.
Also, if you are going to say as much, could you elaborate on why the other case is a "much more valid case", from what I have seen you have brought up two points of your opinion against freezie (and no, I am not disputing others cases against freezie, just your stated reasoning in particular)

you brought up two points
1. for FOSing confirmed townie giligan (as we have concluded a mistake on your part)
2. Tunneling andy, whom he has so far made one post on, unless you are for some reason counting joke votes?

Yes, mixing one person with the other after a short hiatus is a horrendous crime - I should be lynched straight away

The thing is that instead of just correcting me you're trying to take this as some sort of really evil deed and incriminate me, which is not townsfolk normally do.

If what, there's actually a few quite valid points that Andy and few others have already brought on him and since I'm really not just going to copy/paste what was said, I would highly advise you to read just slightly back

this goes back to something i am pretty sure I was seeing from commander all game. The fact that he has been seemingly trying to undersell the case against him while making it look like the person who has stated their case are overselling it. He is not directly OMGusing them but I do feel he is trying to discredit their arguments. He seemed to have done that day one when I was making a case against him and he now seems to be doing it against / as / starts to make a case against him.

So in the long run, I think there are signs that commander was skimming in this game and there are signs of him trying to role fish (although not blatantly) and shift the blame against his accusers in a mildly omgus manner. His actions don't strike me as town aligned and therefore.

vote commander

[jonty125]

Wednesday July 13th, 2011:

Yup, exactly.

I'm surprised at you, Commie. Instead of wanting a replacement for Saxlad, you seem to be advocating a straight lynch here. What's the deal?

-Tails

There's a difference between pressuring and lynching. Saxlad is around and is posting in the forums - I don't mind pressuring him. If what, we can always replace, but since everyone is basically stuck and not doing anything, this at least may prove to be beneficial in the longer term.

Ok my problem with this post is as follows.

1. Saxlad had not been overly active in the mafia forums for a long time.

2. Saxlad was not active in any other public forum.

3. Commander was games with saxlad and saxlad had not been active in them.

4. Commander was in a game that saxlad hosted and saxlad had shown himself to only be sparsely active as the mod in that game.

5. Commander hosted a game where saxlad was mostly inactive.

6. It's possible but no commander is usually one of the more hesitant ones to pressure an inactive.

So all in all, I don't see how this adds up to saxlad being active and commander was in a position where he should have been aware that saxlad was not active in the forums. commander asserting that saxlad was "around and posting in the forums" does not appear to fit the truth of the matter. even after his later explanation:

I'm gonna go ahead and vote com9 and fos naxus. To suggest that someone who hasn't posted on the forums since Sunday is around and posting sounds to me like you two didn't do any actual research into the actual case. Com9 I especially feel has been trying to make himself look very pro town without stepping too far outside of the lines.

I've been discussing a tournament with him during the weekend (a couple of PM's) and he was quick to respond, which means he's around. He also has one post yesterday on Squishy's group forum, so he IS around. To suggest something like that without doing any research sounds like Strike is trying to look very pro town without stepping too far outside of the lines

Timeline:
May-now: Saxlad's activity decreased significantly from what it had been previously (especially through June-August).

July 5-8th: sax sparse

July 5-9th, 2011: game mostly in joke phase

July 7th, 2011: previous last post by sax.

July 8-10, 2011: roughly what would have been the time frame in which these messages would have been sent if over the weekend. Sax posts a total of 5 times with short comments in his game

July 9th-16: Sax lad doesn't post.

July 10th: Tails is first to vote sax for submarining.

July 11-13th: saxwagon starts picking up.

July 13th, 2011: around when com says Sax posted once in Squishy's forum. Commander claims saxlad is active.

Maybe my definition is different but I'm not seeing the evidence for Sax being all that active even with the pms and the single post. I can vouch that Sax didn't post much anywhere else that I could see him during this time frame and considering his faltering was a lingering problem, it seems the case on him was exaggerated by comm. Also considering that mafia is different from other forums and parts of this site in that it carries a different level of responsibility like taking your turn in your games or performing possible mod duties, it's not practical to really bring in outside posting fully into the light in this forum (something I learned through pancake).

I suppose I should have made the first part more obvious I was joking around. But like I said if the pms were over the weekend and he's only made one post in a private forum since, it only proves my point that he hasn't been active in the forums particularly since sunday. He and naxus seemed to be suggesting he was active with their comments. I don't consider one post since Sunday solid so I'm calling them out on that and I found it scummy to suggest such in a situation where at least in my eyes that didn't hold true. I'm not saying it's rock solid evidence but it is something.

The main point that he's around as much as anyone. I've never said it was a strong case - I just voted an inactive, yet you're trying to show it as I've actually made it a full fledged case and now you're trying to attach it on me and pursue me as a big mean inactive hunter. I'm sorry strike, but that deserves a FoS.

If you just want to chase the inactive what's the point of pointing him out as "around as much as anyone"? This is fishy when commander should know that he wasn't around as a lot of people. and commander should know that. He tries to flip the case back against me while underselling his part in it. Commander seems to have tried to sell him as not only inactive in this game but active elsewhere but now he's decided to backtrack as it is just an "inactive".

Yes you voted an inactive which from my experience tends to be out of character for you. Were you not the one beating up on the victor sullivan wagon in POTC mafia for being against an inactive? You've maintained silence against those on this wagon which is fine it's a perfectly ok wagon overall with traditional pressuring of an inactive. I'm only against those who seem to be trying to point out he is active which isn't really true. Also no I don't think you're trying to use it to get him lynched but I do feel you are trying to create some kind of air of protowniness by asserting that he is active and making it look like it is a bit more than a common inactive hunt. It isn't. I felt the same way about your premature cry to get a discussion going and I will back up my opinion.

This is slightly different than the Sully wagon in POTC. First of all, I was the 1st one to place a serious vote and it was 2nd vote on Saxlad - he had absolutely no pressure and this hadn't moved him anywhere near towards the lynch. The only thing that it did it gave some pressure. Sully's wagon was already established and growing when I said that I won't vote him and that I don't approve that. I don't see how this is out of character for me. At all. Again, with that "protowniness" - that's pretty much your main argument (and quite ineffective too). What I do here is nothing different what I normally do, so I don't understand this. Furthermore, you also know that I always like discussions and get into those (Remember the "painful Lebowski debate") and I'm encouraging them any way that I can.

I fail to see how it was hugely different than the sully bandwagon in POTC game. Other than your side in it. Both were more or less inactive bandwagons though the case on sully also had elements of lurking to it. The difference here is you decided to jump an inactive bandwagon where in POTC you suggested inactive bandwagons were more or less wastes of time and it is better to replace the person.

Also, if Nibbler was a SANE TOWN COP (specifically) that means we probably also have another cop who is insane. Basically, what that means, if you are a cop and you got an innocent result... You got scum.

Qft on the doc possibly being naive. Don't rush into something becaus e you got an innocent result and commander (who is still rising up my scum ladder) suggests you may be insane.

As far as the doomsday device. I think you guys are a bit off track on the role that was responsible for that kill however I'm not convinced it is best for me to reveal my thoughts on that kill.

Now now, don't be a rebel without any good cause You're such a James Dean character.

I've never said that they're supposed the results straight away, but that it's extremely likely that they may have caught a scum.

This part is interesting to me. Despite his excuse, it still looks in my eyes that he may have been trying to push a cop with ambiguous sanity into possibly making an early claim.

To be fair, Freezie, you're sort of bringing this on your own. You FoS Gilligan, who's most likely town (I'm fairly sure Haggis wouldn't make such a risky move and did what he did if he wasn't town) and you also continuously have a "thing" for Andy (tunnel vision, if you will) without providing any real substance to the game. Since the vote count is already somewhat high, I won't put mine just yet, but I'm looking forward to hear the response and possibly your claim.

He comes back from his last post saying he was going to read up on the thread and he comes back and his post immediately has two major things that are not accurate to what's happening in the game. Even if he was busy this seems unusually careless coming from Commander. I wouldn't even give this as much credit as I am but the truth of the matter is these two things he mistook were major parts of what happened in the day and it looks from my angle something that's been repeated and too important to make a stupid mistake on unless he was only skimming the thread.

It's not really a "detail" if it's the foundation to one's reasoning and most of a case for much of a day phase, some mistakes are understandable, but if we just chalk everything up to that there is no point in the word "skimming" in the first place.

And exactly how many times have I been caught skimming? Very little. I probably should have double checked, but this is normally not exactly known as my characteristics. Furthermore, I've been quite inactive in all mafia forums (and CC), so I really do think that you are trying to pin this one mistake and possibly derail attention from a much more valid case to me.

I find this to be a fairly ineffective argument. I stated why I am not really buying the not having been here excusse so that leaves the Skimming not being a norm for him. A lot of time cases are built on what is OUT of the norm for a character not what is in the norm. beyond that just because you haven't been caught does not mean you haven't skimmed. Let's go back to wehre you mixed up information on the scene for an example of another incident that could be skimming in this thread:

I'm assuming the shadowy group would be moms goons and them with mom would be a perfect 4 group mafia (3 goons + GF). The doomsday device reference is a somewhat of a bigger mystery, but scammers (probably the main scammer would be the best bet) did used to have those and would fit SK flavour.

beyond any wifom reasons, he seems to have missed the Santa Claws kill all together in this initially and had to be corrected before it was acknowledged.

Do not mistake acknowledging a new event as "derailing" current cases, suspicion is being cast all around, there is no point in ignoring something suspect.
Also, if you are going to say as much, could you elaborate on why the other case is a "much more valid case", from what I have seen you have brought up two points of your opinion against freezie (and no, I am not disputing others cases against freezie, just your stated reasoning in particular)

you brought up two points
1. for FOSing confirmed townie giligan (as we have concluded a mistake on your part)
2. Tunneling andy, whom he has so far made one post on, unless you are for some reason counting joke votes?

Yes, mixing one person with the other after a short hiatus is a horrendous crime - I should be lynched straight away

The thing is that instead of just correcting me you're trying to take this as some sort of really evil deed and incriminate me, which is not townsfolk normally do.

If what, there's actually a few quite valid points that Andy and few others have already brought on him and since I'm really not just going to copy/paste what was said, I would highly advise you to read just slightly back

this goes back to something i am pretty sure I was seeing from commander all game. The fact that he has been seemingly trying to undersell the case against him while making it look like the person who has stated their case are overselling it. He is not directly OMGusing them but I do feel he is trying to discredit their arguments. He seemed to have done that day one when I was making a case against him and he now seems to be doing it against / as / starts to make a case against him.

So in the long run, I think there are signs that commander was skimming in this game and there are signs of him trying to role fish (although not blatantly) and shift the blame against his accusers in a mildly omgus manner. His actions don't strike me as town aligned and therefore.

vote commander

Well this case is much stronger than mine unvote vote commander9

[safariguy5]

QOTD:

Bender: Maybe you can interface with my ass...by biting it!

Vote Count

strike(1)- GEQ
Com9(2)- strike, jonty

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline in 1 day and about 14 hours.

[drunkmonkey]

Could you prod Commander9 to respond, since he hasn't posted here in about 6-7 weeks?

[pancakemix]

Could you prod Commander9 to respond, since he hasn't posted here in about 6-7 weeks?

That's kinda my issue here too. Other than that, I have no problem with taking the case on commander further.

[Metsfanmax]

With a deadline approaching so quickly, prodding isn't really going to help unless the mod extends the deadline upon finding a replacement.

[safariguy5]

Could you prod Commander9 to respond, since he hasn't posted here in about 6-7 weeks?

That's kinda my issue here too. Other than that, I have no problem with taking the case on commander further.

I prodded him.

[strike wolf]

Could you prod Commander9 to respond, since he hasn't posted here in about 6-7 weeks?

That's kinda my issue here too. Other than that, I have no problem with taking the case on commander further.

I'll admit I had my hesitancies (I just made that up don't bother looking for it in the dictionary) but I feel the case is at least solid enough to be brought forward regardless of commander's inactivity.

[Gilligan]

Very strong case, strike wolf...I'm buying it...

Vote Commander9

[Victor Sullivan]

hesitancies (I just made that up don't bother looking for it in the dictionary)

hesitancy: The quality or state of being hesitant.

-Ninja Sully

[jonty125]

hesitancies (I just made that up don't bother looking for it in the dictionary)

hesitancy: The quality or state of being hesitant.

-Ninja Sully

Erm there are more serious matters at hand.

[pancakemix]

hesitancies (I just made that up don't bother looking for it in the dictionary)

hesitancy: The quality or state of being hesitant.

-Ninja Sully

Erm there are more serious matters at hand.

There are also people who aren't in this game.

Vote Commander

[safariguy5]

QOTD:

Bender: Maybe you can interface with my ass...by biting it!

Vote Count

strike(1)- GEQ
Com9(4)- strike, jonty, Gilligan, PCM

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline in 11 hours.

[drunkmonkey]

I'd rather see a response, but it is a strong case.

vote commander9

[Metsfanmax]

Well, let's get this over with. Something has to happen before the deadline.

Vote Commander9

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

strike(1)- GEQ
Com9(6)- strike, jonty, Gilligan, PCM, drunk, Mets

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Commander9 has been lynched.

[safariguy5]

Scene

As the day began, people seemed to be as slow as if they had just been awakened from cryo tubes. People pattered around, apparently ambivalent or preoccupied with other matters to really care about killing someone.

Finally, as the shadows grew long on the streets, a man stepped forward and accused one of the more lethargic ones.

"He's not been speaking forever!"

From the graveyard, a voice could be seen screaming "Silence is Scummy!"

With that, everyone promptly dragged the sleepy looking target off to the incinerator.

Commander9, Town Thief (Flavor Cop) has been lynched!



It is now Night 4! 48 hours to send in your night actions.

[pancakemix]

From the graveyard, a voice could be seen screaming "Silence is Scummy!"

This makes up for lynching the cop.

[safariguy5]

Scene

The Planet Express ship was busy making its deliveries when suddenly, a 1930's era Ford spaceship appeared on its tail.

"Maybe they're friendly" whimpered Fry.

His hopeful statement was soon answered by a burst of laser fire from the other ship.

"Quick, evasive action!" cried Leela as she attempted to escape the hail of lasers.

Unfortunately, the other ship was too fast and too maneuverable for the Planet Express Ship to outrun. The reliable old green ship soon went down in flames.

Haggis_McMutton, Leela Town Busdriver/Lover has been killed!



drunkmonkey, Fry, Town Lover has been killed!



It is now Day 5! With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[drunkmonkey]

Did everything just taste purple for a second?

Good luck, town.

[drake_259]

Right i'm gonna start of by throwing a FOS at GEQ for voting strike because thats who andy was suspecting. an easier target to go for don't you think? and scummy.

[strike wolf]

So mafia kill analysis:

Night 1: Nag...common early kill doesn't really implicate anyone in particular even with wifom reasoning.

Night 2: Failed killed on whoever Leela busdrove with Kwanton? *wifom Alert* Leela could have been busdriving Fry to avoid them being killed (It makes also makes sense that the mafia might take a shot at them after letting it cool off for a night.)

Night 3: Killed andy. *wifom* Possible frame job.

Night 4: Killed Leela and Fry (lovers). From what I see it sounds like they targeted leela and Fry died by association. I know this is a lot of wifom but after their failed attempt at killing Fry they may have tried to let things cool off a bit (and let the doctor forget about Leela before coming back to attack her).

I'm not sure as I admit it's almost completely wifom but I get the impression that one of the remaining mafia is an experienced player. there's little rhyme or reason to the entire mafia kill list but there does seem to be some thought process involved an who is picked. Considering this who are the remaining experienced players left unlynched/unreplaced? Pancake who I am assuming at this point is town through his behavior and role claim. Me, Tailgunn3r and I believe Mets. Beyond that the most trustworthy person I believe still alive other than Pancake I think is Drake, more because of what he hasn't done and what others have done than townish behavior and possibly the most suspicious well I'm going to agree on God Emperor.

[jonty125]

People are now agreeing with me on GEQ from yesterday, and I'm going to start the ball rolling with [color#FF0000]vote GEQ[/color]