Marxists Thread

[Anarchy Ninja]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

[DIRESTRAITS]

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

*after suppressing laughter at the capitalist side of a debate bringing up slavery*

How is it slavery? I would say getting paid below the poverty line for working at Wal-Mart is more akin to slavery.

People just dont understand that minimum wage wasnt meant to live off of.

[everywhere116]

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

*after suppressing laughter at the capitalist side of a debate bringing up slavery*

How is it slavery? I would say getting paid below the poverty

Wal-Mart doesnt enslave people because they agree to work at Wal-Mart. They dont have to.

[foolish_yeti]

The people, aka the market, should control wages, not the government. Also, as for the street cleaner v. doctor debate, it comes down to this: Would you rather have your street cleaned or your liver cleaned?

I'm for sure not advocating more governmental control!

I would think the doctor would appreciate not wallowing in his own filth and the street cleaner would appreciate the doctors services. Both are vital to the community and thus both should be respected positions.

[everywhere116]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

Money is versitile because with enough of it you can buy that airplane. Face it, money makes people work, and when people work, it makes society go.

[Anarchy Ninja]

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

*after suppressing laughter at the capitalist side of a debate bringing up slavery*

How is it slavery? I would say getting paid below the poverty

Wal-Mart doesnt enslave people because they agree to work at Wal-Mart. They dont have to.

yes they can just be pan handlers instead, foolish people why do they bow to capatalism. oh thats rite cause society is filled with greedy people, who make it very difficult for everyone to get an education or perhaps they need the extra money to survive cause they are retired and the pension is just not enough?

[everywhere116]

The people, aka the market, should control wages, not the government. Also, as for the street cleaner v. doctor debate, it comes down to this: Would you rather have your street cleaned or your liver cleaned?

I'm for sure not advocating more governmental control!

I would think the doctor would appreciate not wallowing in his own filth and the street cleaner would appreciate the doctors services. Both are vital to the community and thus both should be respected positions.

Both are useful. But how much work and experience does it take to clean a liver than it does to clean a street?

[foolish_yeti]

People just dont understand that minimum wage wasnt meant to live off of.

Wouldn't it make sense to have the lowest someone can be paid for their labour enough for them to survive off of? If I work hard every day and still can't make ends meet- there's a problem there.

[DIRESTRAITS]

The people, aka the market, should control wages, not the government. Also, as for the street cleaner v. doctor debate, it comes down to this: Would you rather have your street cleaned or your liver cleaned?

I'm for sure not advocating more governmental control!

I would think the doctor would appreciate not wallowing in his own filth and the street cleaner would appreciate the doctors services. Both are vital to the community and thus both should be respected positions.

so you dont think the people should set wages, and you dont think the government should. Who should?

And my point was poorly worded. I meant to say, anyone can clean a street. Not everyone can preform heart surgery.

[DIRESTRAITS]

People just dont understand that minimum wage wasnt meant to live off of.

Wouldn't it make sense to have the lowest someone can be paid for their labour enough for them to survive off of. If I work hard every day and still can't make ends meet- there's a problem there.

Minimum wage is for people like me, who are just trying to earn some extra spending money. People should get a job higher than minimum wage if they want to make a living

[everywhere116]

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

*after suppressing laughter at the capitalist side of a debate bringing up slavery*

How is it slavery? I would say getting paid below the poverty

Wal-Mart doesnt enslave people because they agree to work at Wal-Mart. They dont have to.

yes they can just be pan handlers instead, foolish people why do they bow to capatalism. oh thats rite cause society is filled with greedy people, who make it very difficult for everyone to get an education or perhaps they need the extra money to survive cause they are retired and the pension is just not enough?

I beg to differ. Have you ever heard of that free education system called school

[Anarchy Ninja]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

Money is versitile because with enough of it you can buy that airplane. Face it, money makes people work, and when people work, it makes society go.

so your saying pepole wouldnt work for goods and services
"what that guy is offering me food for that plow so he can then make more food more effectively!? he can go f*ck himself!"

[spurgistan]

I'm not quite sure where you get the idea that the barter economy is related to socialism in any way, but it definitely isn't. Anyways, the reason why communism is designed for communes (didn't really explain this last time) is because, in small populations, people know eachother, and are predisposed to care for others in their community. So the hypothetical doctor would say to the street cleaner "Hmm, my worth to this community is arguably greater than yours, but as you are a member of my community, and indubitably keep the streets clean, i will treat... whatever the hell it is you have." Will the street cleaner get the same level of care a millionaire banker in the States would get? No. But he would be cared for, which is more than a lot of American street cleaners could say. And such is the wisdom, if not absolute real-world applicability, of Marxism.

*Sorry for the long post, I'm procrastinating*

[foolish_yeti]

so you dont think the people should set wages, and you dont think the government should. Who should?

I never said people shouldn't set wages. I think people should set wages- but not the social elite...because then you get wealth distribution that favours, surprise, the wealthy.

[everywhere116]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

Money is versitile because with enough of it you can buy that airplane. Face it, money makes people work, and when people work, it makes society go.

so your saying pepole wouldnt work for goods and services
"what that guy is offering me food for that plow so he can then make more food more effectively!? he can go f*ck himself!"

Some people would. But all people would work for money.

[Anarchy Ninja]

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

*after suppressing laughter at the capitalist side of a debate bringing up slavery*

How is it slavery? I would say getting paid below the poverty

Wal-Mart doesnt enslave people because they agree to work at Wal-Mart. They dont have to.

yes they can just be pan handlers instead, foolish people why do they bow to capatalism. oh thats rite cause society is filled with greedy people, who make it very difficult for everyone to get an education or perhaps they need the extra money to survive cause they are retired and the pension is just not enough?

I beg to differ. Have you ever heard of that free education system called school

yes cause everyone has that oppurtunit we would like to think so but face there are many many people who still dont get educated. and what about university? that sure as hell isnt free, and there are few scholarships. so what if someone just misses a scholarship? and they dont have the money well thats another potential doctor, engineer, whatever that is working in wal-mart or maccas.

[ksslemp]

see this is what im talking about, have any of you people so apposed to it actually studied it, i will say its most basic premise cause you are probly too busy treading on people to reach the top on a quest for more and more tainted money "give what you can and take only what you need" meaning everyone there is helping each other and every one gets an equal oppurtunity communism is the ultimate form of society and follows socialism once there is enough of everything to be shared with everyone. no one has yet actually implemented communism its been socialism, versions of marxism, marxist-leninist, maoists. they are all different.

and before you asked yes if i was a doctor i would gladly get 'paid' the same as a street cleaner (despite the fact that money would not be neccessary as people would be sharing everything, goods and services. which is sadly impossible due to greed that i see everyday).

I see that you are well meaning and yes it would be great if the Earth was a utopian place but we are but Humans, with different wants, desires and needs. the concept would work if we were Termites and all thought alike but we're not.

One of the main problems i have with communism is the fact that it destroys initiative. Why would someone in that system work harder or smarter for that manner? All they would get for their hard work would be the Ire of their co-workers. I've worked in Union shops and was told "to not work so hard, i was making everyone look bad"!

In that kind of world, the advancement of civilization would slow to a crawl.

I think we are better off by having a free capitalist system and at the same time teaching our children to be well rounded, secure and compassionate people. I understand your disdain for greedy people,, but there is no system that would eliminate self-centeredness.

Anyway, just had to throw in my "2-cents".

All the best and don't forget the sunblock!
ksslemp

[DIRESTRAITS]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

Money is versitile because with enough of it you can buy that airplane. Face it, money makes people work, and when people work, it makes society go.

so your saying pepole wouldnt work for goods and services
"what that guy is offering me food for that plow so he can then make more food more effectively!? he can go f*ck himself!"

A bartering system only works for basic goods. It doesn't work for higher up goods. For example, my Dad is a CPA. My best friend's dad is a Firefighter. So using your system, if our house catches fire it better be around tax season or we can forget about our house being saved

[foolish_yeti]

Minimum wage is for people like me, who are just trying to earn some extra spending money. People should get a job higher than minimum wage if they want to make a living

You're right, all those people below the poverty line probably just haven't thought about getting better jobs.

I beg to differ. Have you ever heard of that free education system called school

Woah, education is free? I want my money back!

p.s. holy crap is this thread confusing- so many posts!

[everywhere116]

I'm not quite sure where you get the idea that the barter economy is related to socialism in any way, but it definitely isn't. Anyways, the reason why communism is designed for communes (didn't really explain this last time) is because, in small populations, people know eachother, and are predisposed to care for others in their community. So the hypothetical doctor would say to the street cleaner "Hmm, my worth to this community is arguably greater than yours, but as you are a member of my community, and indubitably keep the streets clean, i will treat... whatever the hell it is you have." Will the street cleaner get the same level of care a millionaire banker in the States would get? No. But he would be cared for, which is more than a lot of American street cleaners could say. And such is the wisdom, if not absolute real-world applicability, of Marxism.

*Sorry for the long post, I'm procrastinating*

I am sure that that doctor would move back to Western civilization where he could make a better living...If that dang New Berlin Wall wasnt in the way.

[Anarchy Ninja]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

Money is versitile because with enough of it you can buy that airplane. Face it, money makes people work, and when people work, it makes society go.

so your saying pepole wouldnt work for goods and services
"what that guy is offering me food for that plow so he can then make more food more effectively!? he can go f*ck himself!"

Some people would. But all people would work for money.

i no i would prefer to starve. especially when i could have a fistfull of bills i mean come on who wouldnt!

[DIRESTRAITS]

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

*after suppressing laughter at the capitalist side of a debate bringing up slavery*

How is it slavery? I would say getting paid below the poverty

Wal-Mart doesnt enslave people because they agree to work at Wal-Mart. They dont have to.

yes they can just be pan handlers instead, foolish people why do they bow to capatalism. oh thats rite cause society is filled with greedy people, who make it very difficult for everyone to get an education or perhaps they need the extra money to survive cause they are retired and the pension is just not enough?

I beg to differ. Have you ever heard of that free education system called school

yes cause everyone has that oppurtunit we would like to think so but face there are many many people who still dont get educated. and what about university? that sure as hell isnt free, and there are few scholarships. so what if someone just misses a scholarship? and they dont have the money well thats another potential doctor, engineer, whatever that is working in wal-mart or maccas.

Dont tell me poor people cant go to college. My Mom's family was so poor they lived in a 2 room apartment..all 8 of them. Her father was a dunk who beat his family and made no money. She still managed to go to college and make a better life for herself by working and taking out student loans and getting as much scholarship money as possible

[DIRESTRAITS]

Minimum wage is for people like me, who are just trying to earn some extra spending money. People should get a job higher than minimum wage if they want to make a living

You're right, all those people below the poverty line probably just haven't thought about getting better jobs.

No, they probably didnt educate themselves, so now they are paying the consequences

[everywhere116]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

Money is versitile because with enough of it you can buy that airplane. Face it, money makes people work, and when people work, it makes society go.

so your saying pepole wouldnt work for goods and services
"what that guy is offering me food for that plow so he can then make more food more effectively!? he can go f*ck himself!"

Some people would. But all people would work for money.

i no i would prefer to starve. especially when i could have a fistfull of bills i mean come on who wouldnt!

With that money you can buy the food you need. And anything else you want, or do you just want the extra food to pile up and be wasted?

[Anarchy Ninja]

in regards to your "new berlin wall" if i where to create a city i would invite people who shard my views and where not greedy self centred bastards, believe it or not but these peole exsist today!