Do you picture poor civilians dying alongside your troops

[Beckytheblondie]

When playing conquer club, do you also picture innocent casualties of war, helpless civilians, historical locations and once-fertile farmlands being destroyed as a result of your assaults? Should you?


The premise of the majority of maps on conquer club is to, well, simply, CONQUER. However, in all conflict extraneous victims (people, places, lands, internet service can all be blacked out) can become sacrificed to the war effort. When you hit that 'auto assault' button on China to India on World 2.1, do you happen to think that history, families or political stability are also being torn apart as a result of your mouseclick? And, should you think about this as you're clicking, after you're clicking, or never, ever?

The concept of RISK! is simple. Take over the world by eliminating your opponents. This is usually aided by conquering important lands, grabbing spoils of war and bringing in reinforcements. Kill or be killed in standard-type games. While to us, it looks like numbers on the screen, but what about the actual people involved in the battles? My opinion is that the numbers off the screen or those on the margin, - the ones we think of as tangential or we don't think of at all - are the most important.

The valuable lesson here is that as commanders, officers and battle-designers we only value the final outcome of a war. We hold the final outcome of each battle with some degree of importance, but at some point, the pixels on the screen, and the number on the side of your account are what you are killing for.

Should we also consider that we're losing every time we're battling?

Livestock.

Books.

Regional Histories.

Families and their homes.

Colouring books.

Progress.

Education.

Science books.

Morality.

Cook books.

Etc.

Should we worry about the peripheral outcomes to a battle when we click the mouse? My supposition is that as commanders, no we shouldn't. But I will argue that we should think about the little children we're killing or polluting after the battle so that we know we mustn't have to do it again.

I look forward to the ensuing conversation and hope to get involved in a debate.

-----
*The Original Poster, BexXx, may decide as a result of this understanding to disavow all future "games" and battles and focus, instead his own interest on finding and helping those innocent victims of war and bringing to them the security that so many conquer club users stole from them in effort to increase their colonial powers.

[shieldgenerator7]

Well, I never thought of that before really. It's just a game to me. Also video games and online games IMO act like a lightning rod for things we can't do or shouldn't do in real-life. Like instead of going out on the streets and killing a whole bunch of people, people go inside and play first-person shooters. Being able to do it in a virtual world takes away from the want to do it in the real world. Of course, it's hard to measure how accurate that statement is on a global level, or if it is even accurate at all. For all we know, FPS games could just encourage shooting and killing. But the thing about CC is that, like you said, it's all numbers and pictures and you don't see any amount of detail other than that. So really I don't think it's all that bad as you're basically just battling numbers, and it's all virtual. But in real life, it's not just numbers, it's a whole group of people.

I also play 4X games, which is a lot like Risk, but it has more detail, in that you control treaties, resources, building of vehicles, facilities, etc., and is basically Risk with more control over what happens and how it happens. And in those games, you actually get to see your ships get blown up, your colonies destroyed, and your empire distraught. But it really depends on the game how much of that you see graphically.

I hope I haven't just been polarized to risk

[jefjef]

and the winner is..... Shut up Becky.

Thread can now be locked.

[Mr Changsha]

I always picture slaughter and defilement. With every move. Which is why I don't play too many games...seven turns a day of some of the sickest shit my sordid brain can come up with is enough for any man.

China to India? I've made that move countless times...and it is always a horrible, bloody mess. Millions upon millions of deaths...the land turns red with the blood of the displaced peasantry, the gore seems almost obscene. But I click again, again and again.

Attacking Ireland on Europa...they are screaming at me for potatoes, yet i give them only rice. "Potatoes are for people who love the Queen." I tell them.

The new frontier maps...savages with their heads nailed to trees, native women impregnated to spread the genes, disease riddles the population. But there is gold to be found, and if not gold then tobacco to be grown. The price of civilisation I tell them. They don't understand a fucking word of course...but that's fine.

Classic...nuclear war. Total devasation...there's about a million people left in the end...but those are the ones who were right.

Russia (on the european maps) the great red army swarming across the land. Shooting all who dare to disagree, taking the passion from people's lives and replacing it with nothing but lies. Russia is my favourite...I hold on to it for grim death on Europa. I refuse to give it up. Only Russia could truly swarm all over Europe, my empire has to be built from there, and if I ruin a continent in the process then fine. Russia wins.

So I get you Becky...but I picture only darkness. My forces are never for good.

[Beckytheblondie]

Well, I never thought of that before really. It's just a game to me. Also video games and online games IMO act like a lightning rod for things we can't do or shouldn't do in real-life. Like instead of going out on the streets and killing a whole bunch of people, people go inside and play first-person shooters. Being able to do it in a virtual world takes away from the want to do it in the real world. Of course, it's hard to measure how accurate that statement is on a global level, or if it is even accurate at all. For all we know, FPS games could just encourage shooting and killing. But the thing about CC is that, like you said, it's all numbers and pictures and you don't see any amount of detail other than that. So really I don't think it's all that bad as you're basically just battling numbers, and it's all virtual. But in real life, it's not just numbers, it's a whole group of people.

I also play 4X games, which is a lot like Risk, but it has more detail, in that you control treaties, resources, building of vehicles, facilities, etc., and is basically Risk with more control over what happens and how it happens. And in those games, you actually get to see your ships get blown up, your colonies destroyed, and your empire distraught. But it really depends on the game how much of that you see graphically.

I hope I haven't just been polarized to risk

Thanks for responding and you bring up some very good points. Witnessing death and destructing glamorized in video games and on television or in movies may promote or encourage it, you're right!

But what about hiding the actual tragedies of war behind a menagerie of medals and ranks. Press a button, kill a million, receive a medal. It is from behind computer monitors that most decisive actions are made and ordered in modern day warcraft. Could this distance and remoteness from the battlefield actually advance the tragedies of war or at least numb those making orders?

Finally, have you ever seen the movie Tron? You know, the 1982 version, not that stupid new sequel. What if we are actually controlling, destroying and ravaging a lesser life-form that lives within this programmed interspace? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this specific topic!

[Beckytheblondie]

I always picture slaughter and defilement. With every move. Which is why I don't play too many games...seven turns a day of some of the sickest shit my sordid brain can come up with is enough for any man.

China to India? I've made that move countless times...and it is always a horrible, bloody mess. Millions upon millions of deaths...the land turns red with the blood of the displaced peasantry, the gore seems almost obscene. But I click again, again and again.

Attacking Ireland on Europa...they are screaming at me for potatoes, yet i give them only rice. "Potatoes are for people who love the Queen." I tell them.

The new frontier maps...savages with their heads nailed to trees, native women impregnated to spread the genes, disease riddles the population. But there is gold to be found, and if not gold then tobacco to be grown. The price of civilisation I tell them. They don't understand a fucking word of course...but that's fine.

Classic...nuclear war. Total devasation...there's about a million people left in the end...but those are the ones who were right.

Russia (on the european maps) the great red army swarming across the land. Shooting all who dare to disagree, taking the passion from people's lives and replacing it with nothing but lies. Russia is my favourite...I hold on to it for grim death on Europa. I refuse to give it up. Only Russia could truly swarm all over Europe, my empire has to be built from there, and if I ruin a continent in the process then fine. Russia wins.

So I get you Becky...but I picture only darkness. My forces are never for good.

+1

Have you considered the human rights atrocities, savageness or copious amounts of sex crime that happen in Supermax: Prison Riot!?

[Army of GOD]

Becky, in my games civilians aren't casualties of war. Whenever I take over a new nation, I make it my job to sweep the entire country of the old civilizian population, leaving no one except those named "John Jones" alive.

[Beckytheblondie]

Becky, in my games civilians aren't casualties of war. Whenever I take over a new nation, I make it my job to sweep the entire country of the old civilizian population, leaving no one except those named "John Jones" alive.

A quick google image search shows me that if it weren't for you directly fighting against natural selection, the John Jones's would have died off by now:

[shieldgenerator7]

yeah like you said about numbing the affects of weaponry and stuff, like the guy who sits in the room with the button to the nuke bombs. Would you press it or not? if you pressed it, would it mean war doesn't matter to you or that you were desensitized to it?

I'm not sure how tron fits in. It's kind of ridiculous to think you are destroying little programs while playing that one snafu game.

This reminds me of the movie Toys (yes, the one with Robin Williams). in it, a military guy makes these videogame things for kids, and it teaches them how to fly a helicopter, use was machines, etc., trying to get them used to it so he could have them rremote control machines on the battlefield. Scary stuff.

[Mr Changsha]

I always picture slaughter and defilement. With every move. Which is why I don't play too many games...seven turns a day of some of the sickest shit my sordid brain can come up with is enough for any man.

China to India? I've made that move countless times...and it is always a horrible, bloody mess. Millions upon millions of deaths...the land turns red with the blood of the displaced peasantry, the gore seems almost obscene. But I click again, again and again.

Attacking Ireland on Europa...they are screaming at me for potatoes, yet i give them only rice. "Potatoes are for people who love the Queen." I tell them.

The new frontier maps...savages with their heads nailed to trees, native women impregnated to spread the genes, disease riddles the population. But there is gold to be found, and if not gold then tobacco to be grown. The price of civilisation I tell them. They don't understand a fucking word of course...but that's fine.

Classic...nuclear war. Total devasation...there's about a million people left in the end...but those are the ones who were right.

Russia (on the european maps) the great red army swarming across the land. Shooting all who dare to disagree, taking the passion from people's lives and replacing it with nothing but lies. Russia is my favourite...I hold on to it for grim death on Europa. I refuse to give it up. Only Russia could truly swarm all over Europe, my empire has to be built from there, and if I ruin a continent in the process then fine. Russia wins.

So I get you Becky...but I picture only darkness. My forces are never for good.

+1

Have you considered the human rights atrocities, savageness or copious amounts of sex crime that happen in Supermax: Prison Riot!?

I have...but compared to the unending chain of raw buggery that is 'Circus Maximus', 'Supermax: Prison Riot' seems positively virginal.

I mean what's 'dropping the soap' compared to getting sodomised by a lion??? They simply can't compare. Those things aren't gentle lovers.

Ever had a large dog hump your leg? Imagine a lion going at it. I mean really think about it...and tell me a bunch of repressed homo-skinheads would be worse.

[shieldgenerator7]

Mr. Changsha, that's why I play PacMan. Cause there I know I'm just eating a piece of candy

[Dukasaur]

I remember when I read my first World War II book, waaaaaay back in primary school, and I brought it home, all excited, to my father. His sneering comment was, "If a bunch of polluting and earth-exploiting humans want to shoot each other that's good, but think of all the innocent fish killed by all those depth charges."

[AndyDufresne]

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.


--Andy

[Joodoo]

It's quite a difficult task when there's no believable visual image/animation of any actual fighting going on.

[natty dread]

Yes I do.

[MeDeFe]

I always picture slaughter and defilement. With every move. Which is why I don't play too many games...seven turns a day of some of the sickest shit my sordid brain can come up with is enough for any man.

China to India? I've made that move countless times...and it is always a horrible, bloody mess. Millions upon millions of deaths...the land turns red with the blood of the displaced peasantry, the gore seems almost obscene. But I click again, again and again.

Attacking Ireland on Europa...they are screaming at me for potatoes, yet i give them only rice. "Potatoes are for people who love the Queen." I tell them.

The new frontier maps...savages with their heads nailed to trees, native women impregnated to spread the genes, disease riddles the population. But there is gold to be found, and if not gold then tobacco to be grown. The price of civilisation I tell them. They don't understand a fucking word of course...but that's fine.

Classic...nuclear war. Total devasation...there's about a million people left in the end...but those are the ones who were right.

Russia (on the european maps) the great red army swarming across the land. Shooting all who dare to disagree, taking the passion from people's lives and replacing it with nothing but lies. Russia is my favourite...I hold on to it for grim death on Europa. I refuse to give it up. Only Russia could truly swarm all over Europe, my empire has to be built from there, and if I ruin a continent in the process then fine. Russia wins.

So I get you Becky...but I picture only darkness. My forces are never for good.

Do you picture poor civilians dying alongside your troops?

From now on I will.

Oh, and the Pacman map is a metaphor for juveniles on LSD beating each other to death in a discothèque.

[Robinette]

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

--Andy

haunting flares = rockets fired into the night sky to light up targets (and men) between the front lines (no-mans land)

distant rest = base camp, away from the front lines, a place weary soliders could rest for a few days before being send back to the front.

hoots = the noise made by shells rushing through the air

Five-Nines = 5.9 calibre explosive shells.




This is the 1st part of DULCE ET DECORUM EST = "it is sweet and right" (to die for your country)

The most recognized war poem of WWI

[BigBallinStalin]

I always picture slaughter and defilement. With every move. Which is why I don't play too many games...seven turns a day of some of the sickest shit my sordid brain can come up with is enough for any man.

China to India? I've made that move countless times...and it is always a horrible, bloody mess. Millions upon millions of deaths...the land turns red with the blood of the displaced peasantry, the gore seems almost obscene. But I click again, again and again.

Attacking Ireland on Europa...they are screaming at me for potatoes, yet i give them only rice. "Potatoes are for people who love the Queen." I tell them.

The new frontier maps...savages with their heads nailed to trees, native women impregnated to spread the genes, disease riddles the population. But there is gold to be found, and if not gold then tobacco to be grown. The price of civilisation I tell them. They don't understand a fucking word of course...but that's fine.

Classic...nuclear war. Total devasation...there's about a million people left in the end...but those are the ones who were right.

Russia (on the european maps) the great red army swarming across the land. Shooting all who dare to disagree, taking the passion from people's lives and replacing it with nothing but lies. Russia is my favourite...I hold on to it for grim death on Europa. I refuse to give it up. Only Russia could truly swarm all over Europe, my empire has to be built from there, and if I ruin a continent in the process then fine. Russia wins.

So I get you Becky...but I picture only darkness. My forces are never for good.

Do you picture poor civilians dying alongside your troops?

From now on I will.

Oh, and the Pacman map is a metaphor for juveniles on LSD beating each other to death in a discothèque.

To relieve stress from a busy day of slaughtering civilians, the officers and I gather a few human heads and play polo. As I maneuver around the defenders and nearly split a skull with a shot on the goal, I envision an old way of life hurtling towards the gates of time. Disfigured, discarded, and defeated have become the way of the past. The future is filled with glory, with true change, followed by a healthy dosage of righteousness.

When I wake in the newly conquered lands of my enemy, I breathe in the smell of death, and sigh relief because I know, and you know, that what has been done was merely a corrective procedure. As I ride my horse down the town's main road, I tell the rows of numerous corpses: "We are the doctors of death, and we came to cure your ailments." Satisfied, we ride on to the next town, to the next country, to the next continent. The world is ours! And, no one can stop us on our road to war.

[BigBallinStalin]

I remember when I read my first World War II book, waaaaaay back in primary school, and I brought it home, all excited, to my father. His sneering comment was, "If a bunch of polluting and earth-exploiting humans want to shoot each other that's good, but think of all the innocent fish killed by all those depth charges."

WRONG! There are no innocent fish in submarine warfare. I've read reports that our enemies use dolphins to report to surface ships the whereabouts of our submarines.



(Please tell me that your dad was a fish merchant. It would make your story much more pleasurable.)

[AndyDufresne]

Because we've been talking about slaughtering people:




--Andy

[RADAGA]

Actually, I picture MY troops are composed of children, livestock and general civilian population armed with makeshift weapons fighting fuly equipped navy S.E.A.L.S. all the time.

That would explain some of my results

[Dukasaur]

I remember when I read my first World War II book, waaaaaay back in primary school, and I brought it home, all excited, to my father. His sneering comment was, "If a bunch of polluting and earth-exploiting humans want to shoot each other that's good, but think of all the innocent fish killed by all those depth charges."

WRONG! There are no innocent fish in submarine warfare. I've read reports that our enemies use dolphins to report to surface ships the whereabouts of our submarines.



(Please tell me that your dad was a fish merchant. It would make your story much more pleasurable.)

It would, wouldn't it? Alas, he was not...

[BigBallinStalin]

My fellow ConquerClubbers, lend us your imaginations. We want to witness the direct footage of your armies marching through barbarian lands and raping their women.

We want to hear the screams of progress!

[AndyDufresne]

--Andy

[shieldgenerator7]

You know, I don't usually picture troops dying all that much. I honestly just see numbers rising and falling.