Fix this "feature"

[Renee_W]

viewtopic.php?f=472&t=146396

[Victor Sullivan]

Sigh, this won't happen. It was your own fault for allowing your turn to end.

-Sully

[SirSebstar]

Sigh, this won't happen. It was your own fault for allowing your turn to end.

-Sully

agreed.
Don't start you turn if you cannot finish it, and if you run into troubles, try asking a mate for help. By phone, since cc is out for you then..

[TheForgivenOne]

Sigh, this won't happen. It was your own fault for allowing your turn to end.

-Sully

agreed.
Don't start you turn if you cannot finish it, and if you run into troubles, try asking a mate for help. By phone, since cc is out for you then..

This was a speed game he was referring to

[SirSebstar]

i have been called a few times now to back up fore a speed game. it happens

[TheForgivenOne]

i have been called a few times now to back up fore a speed game. it happens

I don't think it was more of a "He forgot to drop them all", more of a "I ran out of time WHILE dropping". He was playing a 1v1 Manual speed game on World 2.1

[SirSebstar]

i have been called a few times now to back up fore a speed game. it happens

I don't think it was more of a "He forgot to drop them all", more of a "I ran out of time WHILE dropping". He was playing a 1v1 Manual speed game on World 2.1

I understand, but its up to him to start the turn and finish with the drop. if you wait that long, you should just dump em over picking your spot.
Just go figure, what else does he want to have happened? redistribution of unequal dice on various places, deferred troops? Both would be intensely unfair.

[tokle]

I think Renee has a point with this.
The five minutes don't give you too much time to think and deploy out your armies when it's big map like that.
And since the five minutes count from when the game was initialized you might not even have that much.

[SirSebstar]

I think Renee has a point with this.
The five minutes don't give you too much time to think and deploy out your armies when it's big map like that.
And since the five minutes count from when the game was initialized you might not even have that much.

How do you figure this? Remember the opponent has the same issue's, and next time study without taking your turn and then start when you know what you want to do and be damm quick about it..
Manual games in most cases, benefit from dropping everything in 1 spot anyways..

also take into account what a possible solution could be that does not mean that there is no penalty to not deploying. Your opponant already took the shot, so you get to think much longer or make the call once you have seen how the other guy is placed?? that would be even more unfair

[Renee_W]

Just go figure, what else does he want to have happened? redistribution of unequal dice on various places, deferred troops? Both would be intensely unfair.

I -already- said what I think should have happened.

also take into account what a possible solution could be that does not mean that there is no penalty to not deploying. Your opponant already took the shot, so you get to think much longer or make the call once you have seen how the other guy is placed?? that would be even more unfair

Actually my opponent did absolutely nothing and missed his turn. All his armies were automatically distributed in 3 stacks, I'd expect the same done w/ my remaining armies. I had 20 armies left that's 10 random singletons of mine auto deployed up to 3's.

I'm not asking for extra time or any sort of advantage. I simply expect that the same troop protection should apply whether you miss your turn or start but don't finish.

If you miss a manual deploy turn or start and fail to finish it your undeployed armies should be deployed randomly into 3 stacks.

If you miss a regular round or start and don't finish then those should be deferred.

I don't see how it can be considered -worse- to start a round and run out of time than to not start it at all. All I'm saying is the same troop protection code should apply to undeployed troops at the end of a round whether you miss completely or start and run out of time.

[Renee_W]

How do you figure this? Remember the opponent has the same issue's

Yeah my opponent did nothing so if you think it's fair I lose my undeployed troops shouldn't my opponent have lost his also... ALL of them?

and next time study without taking your turn

Currently impossible, and adding an extra time allowance would slow the games down.

Manual games in most cases, benefit from dropping everything in 1 spot anyways..

On World 2.1 or other large maps I don't buy that. I think you'd be tripping over lots of neutrals and your own territories trying to get all over the map w/ your 1 75 stack to try to break all my bonuses.

[Darwins_Bane]

Maybe its just me, but its a speed game. If you want more time, then don't play a speed game, play casual so you can think what strategies you want to use. The speed game is supposed to be down to the wire and constantly needing to immediately change tactics or attack somewhere else. I feel like if this were introduced, it would just allow people to not care if it was nearing the end of their turn or not, because they know that they would get deferred troops. As well, I could really easily abuse your proposed change. All I would need to do is stop 20 troops short of deploying all my troops, and then deploy them the following turn along with my turn deploy, totally messing up all of your territories and basically breaking anything you have.

[Renee_W]

Maybe its just me

It's very much just you.

but its a speed game. If you want more time, then don't play a speed game

Don't want more time. Didn't ask for more time.

I feel like if this were introduced, it would just allow people to not care if it was nearing the end of their turn or not, because they know that they would get deferred troops.

Why not just miss your turn instead?

As well, I could really easily abuse your proposed change. All I would need to do is stop 20 troops short of deploying all my troops, and then deploy them the following turn along with my turn deploy, totally messing up all of your territories and basically breaking anything you have.

No you couldn't. Those 20 troops would be randomly deployed on 10 of your territories that only had 1 troop on them making them have 3 when you ran out of time. Those 20 would NOT be deferred. The only way to get deferred troops is to not deploy your turn deploy which you can already do by missing your turn. and those don't go w/ the turn deploy those go at the end of the turn.

Manual deploys that aren't used are auto deployed to make 3 stacks, turn deploys that aren't used are deferred and placed in a single stack at the end of the turn. The only thing I'm saying is the same mechanism apply whether you miss your turn or run out of time.

[Renee_W]

Personally I'm still convinced this is a bug. I find it impossible to believe that the design decision was made that if you miss your turn your troops should be deployed for you but if you run out of time your troops should be lost. You want to insist it's by design and this is a suggestion w/e. I'm inclined to think whoever coded in troop protection thought well if they played they deployed so we just need to put this check in the missed turn code and not run it if the turn was taken. Starting your turn breaks troop protection that should be fixed.

Right now the order of preference is

Start and end your turn - you get to deploy all troops where you want them - best case
Miss your turn - all troops are deployed for you in stacks of 3 - ok
Start your turn and run out of time - you get to decide where some go lose the rest - worst case

Right now it is actually BETTER to miss your turn than run out of time. THAT is by design?!?!

Should be:

Start and end your turn - you get to deploy all troops where you want them - best case
Start your turn and run out of time - you decide where some go the rest are auto deployed randomly in stacks of 3 - ok
Miss your turn - all troops are deployed for you in stacks of 3 - worst case

What I'm saying is not extra time, it's not better than playing your turn, it could be done by playing your turn, just deploy 54 where you want them then throw 10 darts at your monitor and deploy 2 troops on your nearest singleton to each dart.

[TheForgivenOne]

Actually my opponent did absolutely nothing and missed his turn. All his armies were automatically distributed in 3 stacks, I'd expect the same done w/ my remaining armies. I had 20 armies left that's 10 random singletons of mine auto deployed up to 3's.

And how is the system going to determine where to deploy them? When a missed turn in Manual happens, they are distributed evenly, but if you have already started deploying, it can't deploy them evenly all the time. I don't know if the system can "randomly" do this.

[Renee_W]

Random was my thought and I can't imagine that would be hard, PRNG would be sufficient, but IMO it doesn't matter if it's random, alphabetical or straight down the XML.

Code: Select all

List<Territories> lowtroops = new List();
Random rng = new Random();

foreach(Territory t in Player.Territories)
{
 if(t.Troops < 3)
 {
  lowtroops.Add(t);
 }
}

while(toDeploy > 0)
{
  int i = rng.Next(lowtroops.Count);
  Territory dest = lowtroops[i];
  lowtroops.Remove(i);
  int deploy = 3 - dest.Troops;
  deploy = Math.Min(toDeploy, deploy);
  toDeploy -= deploy;
  dest.Troops += deploy;
}


Obviously just sample code.

[dwilhelmi]

I think that the automatic deploy protection is in there in case you are unable to make it onto the site in time to take your turn. Seems like a reasonable assumption to make that if you can make it to the site to take your turn, you should be able to finish said turn. That I think would be solid reasoning behind this feature, thereby not making it a bug.

However, seems like your argument has merit as well, to at least be examined. It does seem fair to treat missed turns and not-finished turns equally.

[Metsfanmax]

I do not necessarily support altering the current mechanic for what happens to troops when you run out of time, but in the case of Manual game first turns, it should probably be changed. 5 minutes is indeed plenty of time to make a given turn on World 2.1, but it is a complex map and deploying all those initial troops might take a little while, especially if you don't get started immediately.

[SirSebstar]

How do you figure this? Remember the opponent has the same issue's

Yeah my opponent did nothing so if you think it's fair I lose my undeployed troops shouldn't my opponent have lost his also... ALL of them?

and next time study without taking your turn

Currently impossible, and adding an extra time allowance would slow the games down.

Manual games in most cases, benefit from dropping everything in 1 spot anyways..

On World 2.1 or other large maps I don't buy that. I think you'd be tripping over lots of neutrals and your own territories trying to get all over the map w/ your 1 75 stack to try to break all my bonuses.

1) he did not start his turn so he simple gets the all deployed in 3's.
2) if you failed to take your turn in time, you would get the 3 pattern dispersion. Hence my wait, and then be quick.
3) You can do it whatever way you want, may i suggest you do not go with speed manual on 2.1 or is its a random game, do not do manual random? Again, your opponant faces the same problem. either be quick or do nothing. Being slow will get you eaten alive.

[dwilhelmi]

3) You can do it whatever way you want, may i suggest you do not go with speed manual on 2.1 or is its a random game, do not do manual random? Again, your opponant faces the same problem. either be quick or do nothing. Being slow will get you eaten alive.

This seems like telling somebody with a broken finger to just not use that finger. I don't think that the point here is that it is unfair to a single player, but rather that it is not fair for everybody. Just because the state in question affects both the OP and the OP's opponent does not mean the suggestion is invalid.

[SirSebstar]

The fact is, some players play differently then you, e.g. me.
Some settings are just not really suitable. Playing no spoils regular sunny dass schloss e.g. is a very bad idea if you like fast quick games.
2.1 is a game that is huge. Playing within the 5 minute mark is hard, esp if you want to think a little about your moves. you have to accept the limitations. not ending your turn even if you succesfully attack = no card.
manual settings but not taking the turn = all places get 3 troops.
starting turn but failing to deploy = lost troops

[Dukasaur]

The fact is, some players play differently then you, e.g. me.
Some settings are just not really suitable. Playing no spoils regular sunny dass schloss e.g. is a very bad idea if you like fast quick games.
2.1 is a game that is huge. Playing within the 5 minute mark is hard, esp if you want to think a little about your moves. you have to accept the limitations. not ending your turn even if you succesfully attack = no card.
manual settings but not taking the turn = all places get 3 troops.
starting turn but failing to deploy = lost troops

Exactly. I don't like to feel rushed, so I don't play speed games, period. But if I did play speed games, I would choose small-to-medium maps that I know well.