Quickie Maf [Endgame] *Town VICTORy*

[DoomYoshi]

Where did the idea of Haggis as an SK even come up? As far as I can tell, Tal made it up and now you guys want to lynch me because an SK (which he might not be) is more valuable than someone with a partially unknown role.

[Talapus]

Where did the idea of Haggis as an SK even come up? As far as I can tell, Tal made it up and now you guys want to lynch me because an SK (which he might not be) is more valuable than someone with a partially unknown role.

Ok Doom, what other thrid party roles can you think of beside SK for third party. Because the only other feasible one I see is cult recruiter and then again, he's bad for town as well. What else is there thats believable for such a small game that he would be?

[evilchaos]

Considering the day kill, there are three possibiltiies:

1) Mafia has day kills. Possible, but I consider it unlikely.
2) Vigilante. If there is one, then he is stupid for using his kill that early and with next to no information.
3) SK. Very possible.

Add to that the fact that Tal knows by investigation that Haggis is third party. Third party roles are rare in a 7 person game, with an SK being the only one really possible. This would fit with Rodion's death. I'm also assuming that Tal really does know by investigation that Haggis is third party. I highly doubt he would put himself out on the line like he has based on a lie. If we lynch Haggis and he comes up town, Tal is as good as lynched in Day 3 because he claimed Haggis was 3rd party.

And the SK isn't valuable, but the vigilante he can turn into would be very valuable. Turning an anti-town role into pro-town is important.

[DoomYoshi]

I have played 5 player games with lynchers, so that is possible. I think perhaps his goal was to try to get Rodion lynched.

So, you are saying that he probably killed Rodion and is therefore the SK? So somebody who kills other players randomly is on your side? wow... this town is doomed if you guys actually are town.

[evilchaos]

I have played 5 player games with lynchers, so that is possible. I think perhaps his goal was to try to get Rodion lynched.

So, you are saying that he probably killed Rodion and is therefore the SK? So somebody who kills other players randomly is on your side? wow... this town is doomed if you guys actually are town.

That isn't what I'm saying at all...

1) Someone was killed during the daytime in Day 1.
2) Normally, only vigilantes and serial killers can do this.
3) A serial killer is more likely, because a vigilante wouldn't use their kill that fast for no reason.
4) Haggis is a third party role (as per Tal's investigation).
5) Third party roles are uncommon in small games, with serial killers being one of the only options.
6) We already know there is a serial killer, so it is highly likely that Haggis, being 3rd party, is said serial killer
7) Tal can convert SKs into vigilantes, changing their alignment.
Turning a SK into a vigilante gives us the best chances of winning (I proved this earlier)
9) We should turn the SK into a vigilante

There is a large chance that Yoshi skimmed the past posts that I've made. I was pretty sure I laid my logic out rather clearly prior to this post.

[evilchaos]

I have played 5 player games with lynchers, so that is possible. I think perhaps his goal was to try to get Rodion lynched.

So, you are saying that he probably killed Rodion and is therefore the SK? So somebody who kills other players randomly is on your side? wow... this town is doomed if you guys actually are town.

That isn't what I'm saying at all...

1) Someone was killed during the daytime in Day 1.
2) Normally, only vigilantes and serial killers can do this.
3) A serial killer is more likely, because a vigilante wouldn't use their kill that fast for no reason.
4) Haggis is a third party role (as per Tal's investigation).
5) Third party roles are uncommon in small games, with serial killers being one of the only options.
6) We already know there is a serial killer, so it is highly likely that Haggis, being 3rd party, is said serial killer
7) Tal can convert SKs into vigilantes, changing their alignment.
Turning a SK into a vigilante gives us the best chances of winning (I proved this earlier)
9) We should turn the SK into a vigilante

There is a large chance that Yoshi skimmed the past posts that I've made. I was pretty sure I laid my logic out rather clearly prior to this post.

EBWOP: lmao. 8 ) with no space turns into . I meant that to be another numbered point.

[DoomYoshi]

The problem is that I am the one who killed Rodion, since I suspected Haggis as a Lyncher.

[Talapus]

The problem is that I am the one who killed Rodion, since I suspected Haggis as a Lyncher.

And you chose to only speak up now?

[DoomYoshi]

I just got killed last time I was an SK. I wanted to make sure you understood exactly what you were saying before I came out. Especially since Fircoal specifically threatened anyone who killed Rodion (he meant more town, but still). Yesterday I was Vanilla Townie. Today I am Daykiller. Tomorrow... I have no idea but I hope it is recruited and not dead.

[Talapus]

I just got killed last time I was an SK. I wanted to make sure you understood exactly what you were saying before I came out. Especially since Fircoal specifically threatened anyone who killed Rodion (he meant more town, but still). Yesterday I was Vanilla Townie. Today I am Daykiller. Tomorrow... I have no idea but I hope it is recruited and not dead.

Ok, lets say I believe this. I have recieved abiliteis the same way. However, how is not recruitung Haggis still going to be bad? So he may not be 3rd party, but he still isn't town either.

[Talapus]

I just got killed last time I was an SK. I wanted to make sure you understood exactly what you were saying before I came out. Especially since Fircoal specifically threatened anyone who killed Rodion (he meant more town, but still). Yesterday I was Vanilla Townie. Today I am Daykiller. Tomorrow... I have no idea but I hope it is recruited and not dead.

Ok, lets say I believe this. I have recieved abiliteis the same way. However, how is not recruitung Haggis still going to be bad? So he may not be 3rd party, but he still isn't town either.

I meant SK. Talking on phone and trying to type logical sentences is hard apparently for me...lol

[evilchaos]

That is one hell of a curveball Yoshi. That means that you and Haggis would both currently be third party. What is your win condition currently?

[DoomYoshi]

I just got killed last time I was an SK. I wanted to make sure you understood exactly what you were saying before I came out. Especially since Fircoal specifically threatened anyone who killed Rodion (he meant more town, but still). Yesterday I was Vanilla Townie. Today I am Daykiller. Tomorrow... I have no idea but I hope it is recruited and not dead.

Ok, lets say I believe this. I have recieved abiliteis the same way. However, how is not recruitung Haggis still going to be bad? So he may not be 3rd party, but he still isn't town either.

Just because he isn't a SK doesn't mean he isn't third-party. How many 1-Shot Investigating, Town Recruiters have you come across? Just because I can't suggest what he is doesn't mean that he isn't third-party. Your own investigation proved him as third-party. The point is my role needs Recruitment.

I am not saying recruiting Haggis is bad. I am just saying that recruiting me is better - by your own admission! Earlier you said you would prefer to recruit an SK than an unknown. Here I am, your SK.

Finally: I have been fairly active all day except for the short while I was gone. Think how dead tomorrow will be if I am lynched now. You already know that you are a huge target for tonight Tal. So it will be evilchaos, playing by himself and our invisible voting friend. Doesn't sound like much of a game.

Haggis is 3rd-Party. He should be lynched. We are running out of time. I suggest you do it now.

Fastposted: Yesterday it was standard town. Today it is standard SK, except I only had 48 hours after Victor pmed me to send in the kill. I fear tomorrow may be mafia, and that it could be unreturnable after that.

[Talapus]

Also Yoshi why the hell wait to make the kill three days after the game day began when there was no inkling of a deadline even being set yet? You could have waited.

[evilchaos]

I don't know what to think about this development, honestly.

Yoshi's story changed pretty rapidly. One second he's convincing us that the SK shouldn't be recruited, and the next he's saying he is the SK.

I didn't quite get how lynching an SK would ever be a bad thing...

Meanwhile, let's examine something:

Haggis, expect a case sometime (by Wednesday at the latest, I have been very busy lately).

This would be a lot easier if Haggis was here.

I think it is more probable that Haggis was the one who killed Rodion as they were having quite the kerfuffle Day 1. There is the whole Haggis not being present issue, but I think he could've popped on and sent a pm to Victor without actually reading the thread.

Make a random kill tonight? I say we lynch Haggis. He generated a lot of heat yesterday but has been extremely silent today.

Fircoal, you have presented two cases this game. One was on me, in response to my claiming that Haggis was suspicious.

The second one is on Talapus, who is also advocating a Haggis lynch. I don't mean to take away from your points, they are solid points, but it is beginning to look like you are defending Haggis.

Ok shield, switch your vote to Haggis if you agree with a lynch of a third-party. vote Haggis

So, you are saying that he probably killed Rodion and is therefore the SK? So somebody who kills other players randomly is on your side? wow... this town is doomed if you guys actually are town.

Haggis is 3rd-Party. He should be lynched. We are running out of time. I suggest you do it now.

You seem awfully preoccupied with lynching Haggis. I have a feeling that Yoshi is switching roles daily, just like he said, and today he is a lyncher. He gets more desperate as the day goes on because his wincon will change at the end of the day, resulting in his hail mary tactic right here in claiming as SK.

[DoomYoshi]

Also Yoshi why the hell wait to make the kill three days after the game day began when there was no inkling of a deadline even being set yet? You could have waited.

I had a deadline on my kill, just like regular deadline on Night Actions. I already wished someone had NKed Rodion, as I was pretty sure Haggis was a lyncher.

As to evil's point: Nobody in their right mind would claim SK unless they had a damn good reason too. We don't have to lynch Haggis, we can lynch someone else if you want. But with the results of Tal's investigation it just made the most sense. I can't see any other cases as of right now.

[evilchaos]

Also Yoshi why the hell wait to make the kill three days after the game day began when there was no inkling of a deadline even being set yet? You could have waited.

I had a deadline on my kill, just like regular deadline on Night Actions. I already wished someone had NKed Rodion, as I was pretty sure Haggis was a lyncher.

As to evil's point: Nobody in their right mind would claim SK unless they had a damn good reason too. We don't have to lynch Haggis, we can lynch someone else if you want. But with the results of Tal's investigation it just made the most sense. I can't see any other cases as of right now.

Your claim of SK wouldn't matter to you if you're lyncher though, as long as it results in Haggis' lynch. You would get the win.

I think we should lynch Yoshi and convert Haggis. That way we have no chance of giving the win to a lyncher.

[evilchaos]

Also, Yoshi, why did you originally think the game was a C9 setup?

[DoomYoshi]

I was a Vanilla Townie Day 1. My role was revealed to me day 2. I was the one who killed Rodion. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine. However, you are not getting an SK, which you claimed to want.

[evilchaos]

Here's the thing. You claimed it was C9 during Day 2, not Day 1.

I think the setup is probably a C9 or something similar. We had a crazy discussion yesterday and I have been churning through it. Rodion, I feel sorry for your pr as I think that put a lot of people on your arguments. Haggis, expect a case sometime (by Wednesday at the latest, I have been very busy lately).

Link: viewtopic.php?f=213&t=145162&start=105#p3178955

If you're telling the truth about being an SK, why are you lieing about when your role changed?

[DoomYoshi]

It wasn't right away when I found out the role changed. You can probably ask Tal, but the change in information was a few minutes before I killed Rodion (Victor and I were on at the same time then).

[evilchaos]

Can you explain exactly what happened since the start of Day 2? I want to make sure there's no more holes in the story before I decide whether or not its believable.

[Fircoal]

Well this is an interesting turn of events. I think I have to agree with Evil on what he found on Yoshi, it seems he's acting very much like a lyncher of Haggis. Don't forget that he also brought up the idea that Haggis could have been a lyncher and that lyncher could find itself in a game of 7 (my personal 3rd party role that could be here would have been jester or survivor). It is very likely that Doom is a lyncher. But then we have to question the c9 comment. New thoughts on this is this: What if he did it to throw us off. That would never let us guess he's a LYNCHER (or an SK for that matter) we'd be hidden from his real role.

What I want now is I want a counterclaim. I want Haggis to claim his role and tell us if he killed Rodion. Also you can't forget, what if the mafia works in daykills rather than nightkills, I mean that's quite possible seeing how there was no nightkill.

[evilchaos]

Well this is an interesting turn of events. I think I have to agree with Evil on what he found on Yoshi, it seems he's acting very much like a lyncher of Haggis. Don't forget that he also brought up the idea that Haggis could have been a lyncher and that lyncher could find itself in a game of 7 (my personal 3rd party role that could be here would have been jester or survivor). It is very likely that Doom is a lyncher. But then we have to question the c9 comment. New thoughts on this is this: What if he did it to throw us off. That would never let us guess he's a LYNCHER (or an SK for that matter) we'd be hidden from his real role.

What I want now is I want a counterclaim. I want Haggis to claim his role and tell us if he killed Rodion. Also you can't forget, what if the mafia works in daykills rather than nightkills, I mean that's quite possible seeing how there was no nightkill.

You would know this better than I would. Is sully crazy enough to throw in mafia day kills? I was assuming a doctor/roleblocker/jailkeeper got lucky.

[DoomYoshi]

I killed Rodion. That's why I didn't understand where the assumption that Haggis was an SK came from.