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Is a centrist 3rd Party Needed?

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Does the United States need a centrist 3rd Party?

 
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Re: rightist views

Postby ksslemp on Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:05 am

luns101 wrote:
btownmeggy wrote:
luns101 wrote:
btownmeggy wrote:The sad thing about the Republican party is that it's been largely co-opted by an extremely powerful right-wing contingent that represents the views of only about 15% of Americans.


what would those minority views be?


"The Religious Right" is probably the most powerful group, or segment, of the Republican party, but IS NOT representative of the vast majority of Republicans. Some basic positions of this group: organized prayer and bible-reading in public schools, teaching of creationism in public schools, anti-embryonic stem cell research, anti-sex education, anti-birth control (especially as provided free or at reduced cost by government-funded organizations, both abroad and in the US), anti-homosexuals serving openly (or at all) in the military.


Yeah, that's what I thought. I guess I'm part of that powerful sector. I disagree with your representation of our positions (although I can't speak for everyone in the 'religious right') I could easily turn it around and say that those who disagree with me are anti-prayer, anti-religion, anti-responsibility, and anti-life. It just depends on your point of view.

But if the 'religious right' is such a minority, the 'moderates' should have no problem controlling the party platform. Either that, or the 'moderates' fear losing the Christian vote, so they just "suck it up" for the time being. That makes your original point though, of a "constitutional" 3rd party coming out of the Republican party.

I guess I partially agree with you in the fact that a 3rd party could splinter off from the Republican side, but seeing as poll after poll represents a strong Christian influence among Americans, that "splinter" would eventually be shopping around for a new home. One of the 2 major parties would eventually address their concerns.

It's sort of like Hollywood making Christian-friendly films as of late. They have so sympathies towards religious people, but readily accept their $$. The same could be said for 'religious' voters. We'll tell you what you want to hear if we receive your votes.


The Party Platform, or "Concerns" of the 3rd party would be "Let's Get Something Friggin' Done"! The dems & repubs are playing some stupid game of "gotya" while rome is burning! Fix some friggin' problems already, Hell we have 30,000+ people illegally entering the U.S. every friggin' month! How about we start with that problem! The damn boat is sinking and they're wondering what to do with the "Water"!
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Postby ksslemp on Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:17 am

XenHu wrote:
ksslemp wrote:I know a third party exists, along with a 4th and a 5th and a 6th and a 7th..

I'm hoping for a third party that isnt made up of kooks & wackos! not a third party to represent the spotted owl, or one thats wants the country to run on the barter system. Thats why i said "Common Sense".


Explain what you are referencing and perhaps I'll continue my end of this conversation..


-X


I was referring to the Green & Libertarian parties.
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Postby ksslemp on Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:35 am

s.xkitten wrote:*shrugs* it'll never work...been tried over and over....it would be nice, but it won't work


Kitten, You are much too pessimistic for a 19 y.o.
Change takes a belief in change.
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Postby ksslemp on Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:57 pm

ksslemp wrote:
s.xkitten wrote:*shrugs* it'll never work...been tried over and over....it would be nice, but it won't work


Kitten, You are much too pessimistic for a 19 y.o.
Change takes a belief in change.


Unless the 2 major parties pull their heads out of their collective A**s', There will be a Third party. I think it will happen only because the parties are blinded by their dislike of one another.
They truly do not have a clue as to what Americans want from them. Nor i think do they care! Most of them anyway.
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Postby got tonkaed on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:04 pm

i dont really think that the current dem party isnt that centrist party you are talking about...as the democrats have currently gotten away from a lot of the leftist labor ideals that are supposed to be involved with a left party. The right is becoming more religiously motivated and moving as a result somewhat farther to the right. But i would say we are closer to not having a true left party than we are to not having a centrist party.
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Postby Wisse on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:11 pm

i am dead, i don;t understand what i vote for
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Postby XenHu on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:13 pm

MR. Nate wrote:c'mon X, don't be cryptic. Tell us what's on your mind. I have no clue what your talking about, but I'm intensely curious.


Well, it has to do with my Anarchist beliefs, so my reluctance should be understood. My point was that America doesn't need another third party because it already has one. The people. Do you need a title to make your beliefs heard? I should think not. If Americans were as deeply concerned about the issues of their country as I am of mine, they wouldn't need a party at all. Actions and votes speak louder than words and if you show the current parties that their actions will be held accountable, I believe they'll clean up their act. After all, people in power only fear one thing: Losing it.


-X
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Postby got tonkaed on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:16 pm

hey xen....although i cant say i know all of your beliefs, i may intellectually support a few of them.

However i was wondering, if there was a movement of the people (which i think we would both agree is a good thing - though perhaps in slightly different forms) how would that movement be able to survive in an integrated economic system. Someone in china says the word (capital control) and stock markets (admittedly not serving the people either of us are probably referring to, but at the same time an important part of the system by extension) drops all over the world. Does global capitalism have to be diluted some before anarchist groups can really come forward?
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Postby ksslemp on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:17 pm

Wisse wrote:i am dead, i don;t understand what i vote for


Unless you are some strange person from the netherlands who follows American politics, I wouldnt expect you to have an opinion on the matter. nor do i think you'd have enough information to base one on.

You are resurrected!
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Postby ksslemp on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:43 pm

XenHu wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:c'mon X, don't be cryptic. Tell us what's on your mind. I have no clue what your talking about, but I'm intensely curious.


Well, it has to do with my Anarchist beliefs, so my reluctance should be understood. My point was that America doesn't need another third party because it already has one. The people. Do you need a title to make your beliefs heard? I should think not. If Americans were as deeply concerned about the issues of their country as I am of mine, they wouldn't need a party at all. Actions and votes speak louder than words and if you show the current parties that their actions will be held accountable, I believe they'll clean up their act. After all, people in power only fear one thing: Losing it.


-X


Much too simplistic.

America doesnt NEED parties, but they are formed naturally from human nature. a party is just a group formed of like minded individuals sharing common interests/views/goals. it is human nature. If the chaos of Anarchy ever came to exist, it would very quickly dissolve into order.

By abandoning the current major 2 parties and condensing into a 3rd centrist one Americans WOULD be holding them accountable. right now they simply laugh it off, they are clueless. case-in-point, the dems actually believe that the recent election results were an affirmation of their stated goals. (ridiculous) it was meant as a message to gov't to wake up and get things done! and if they don't get the message, next election will swing differently and i'm sure all the political analysts will be scratching their heads.

The problem is getting Americans involved and interested. It's a problem of Indifference & Ignorance.
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Postby XenHu on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:44 pm

Sometimes simple is the only way people understand. I agree with you, however.

-X
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Postby got tonkaed on Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:47 pm

ksslemp...out of curiousity, what would your 3rd party do, other than your stated aim thus far of limiting immigration?
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Postby ksslemp on Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:30 pm

got tonkaed wrote:ksslemp...out of curiousity, what would your 3rd party do, other than your stated aim thus far of limiting immigration?


Well good question, I havent sat down and developed a model for a 3rd party but i think it would be mostly a party of ideals and character more so than one of ideas that are different than the other 2 parties. the difference would be in the execution of those ideas, the actionable concerns would come from citizens not lobbyists.

I'd like a party of civil servants in the traditional sense. a melding of civil servant and citizen soldier with Philadelphia as an example. A true gov't of the people. made up of men and women sworn to an oath of integrity and honesty. people who put the good of the country as a whole above their own personal desires.

I know it sounds a little "Pie-in-the-Sky", but i'd lay down my life for it!
The world is what we make of it.

P.S. My aim is not limiting "immigration". Our current immigration quotas are fine, other than tweeking the system a little and limiting numbers in regards to "Chained" migration i think out policies are Fair. People who illegally enter the U.S. are not immigrants, they are trespassers and criminals, and to not secure our borders and defacto sanction criminality by not punishing businesses that put profits ahead of civic duty is to "Spit" in the face of all the lawful immigrants who respected my country and her laws and came here the right way.

I have nothing against "Immigrants" but i have everything against "Illegal" immigrants. I am an American! My Family came to this land in 1762, before it was the U.S.A. and i can honestly tell you that i view anyone who comes here "Legally" and becomes an American Citizen the right way to be 100% as American as i am!

This country needs Law-Abiding Citizens, not Residents of Convenience.

I apologize for my ramblings but i am passionate about this subject.
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Postby got tonkaed on Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:39 pm

the first thing that came to my mind was this sort of reminds me a bit of a confucian style civil servant system, though it seems you hope a bit more for a differnt standard of charcter than being able to follow the right rites and confucian thinking.

I think some of the ideas are fairly interesting, but i suppose one of my questions is, how do we determine what is for the best of our country. Disregarding the issue of current immigration for a moment, its not an easy exercise to really pin down what is something that is truly american. Also, again out of curiosity, what role do you see the military having in such a setting? Certainly it would be difficult for a country to utilize soliders in a similar fashion as the philadelphia you refer to, but are you in favor of a small term of compulsory military service? Either way is it our countries job to expand our influence militarily or would your citizenry be more in charge of a defensive stance for the country?

My apologies for some of the semantics about your immigration views. Im probably more correct if i say illegal immigration as that is what you seem to stand against. I suppose i have another question...what would your style of party do in face of illegal immigration, and what do you think the economic consquences might be?


No one minds ranting...especially in a thread like this.
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Postby ksslemp on Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:36 pm

I didnt go that deep into it, its less of a system and more of a guideline.

To find out what is best for America, we ask Americans. Americans for the most part are not stupid, although the margin is shrinking everyday. we have a lot of common sense and respect those who display it. people get frustrated when they see people without this quality being rewarded for such. The McDonalds Hot Coffee lawsuit comes formost to my mind on this one.

There are a lot of issues out there that should have been put to bed years ago. One of them would be the Abortion issue, which is only kept alive by the polar opposites. On one side you have the unfettered abortion crowd, you know the abortion as birth control/at any stage of development/its a choice people. and on the other side the Religious fanatics, it's written in the book so it must be true, no abortions at any time under any circumstances people. Most Americans are somewhere in the middle on this one. They want to allow for women to be able to have an abortion provided not in a back alley but by a doctor in a safe environment but only within the first trimester, or in the case of rape or incest, or if the immediate health of the woman is in jeopardy. That's it! write up the bill and send it through congress! Done!, Issue resolved, NEXT!

On the issue of military service, i'm not in favor of forcing anyone to serve their country. I think we have the finest military in the world in terms of personnel, because we DONT have compulsory service and because of our NCO's. for the most part they want to be there. I am confident in the commitment of our servicemen and women, so much so that i believe if you made service in Iraq a choice, the size of the force in country would remain the same. Some would choose to leave of course but i believe there are plenty of men and women who would step in to replace them.

I believe the military is first and foremost a defensive force and i'm against big stick diplomacy, but with military technology the way it is today we dont really need to have too many external bases to exert "Military Influence".
really the main problem i have with our military situation now is the cost, this will be reduced after we leave Iraq. I would like to see those costs reduced and the savings invested at home.
Not just balancing the budget, but actually reducing the national debt.

I know we have a responsiblity to the Iraqi people right now, but i hope they are able to defend themselves pretty soon. i dont think we should leave prematurely, but that day cannot come soon enough in my opinion.
It bothers me to hear the media talking in realtime about "The WAR". what we are fighting now IS NOT "The WAR". the war was defeating the Iraqi army and deposing the regime! WE WON, WAR OVER! what we are engaged in now is simply helping secure the country until the new Iraqi gov't can handle the job.

In regards the Illegal Immigration(II) question, I think the party would simply stand for enforcement of current laws, that should be "Enforcement" with a capital "E". I like the House Enforcement only approach, I think we can have a discussion about what to do about the II's already in country, but before we start handing out "Cookies", we need to secure our borders.
This is an example of Common Sense. I'm not against some kind of legal work status for these people, but only after our borders are secured.
Another very important part of this problem that has to be dealt with in my opinion at the same time as secureing our borders is the so-called "Anchor Babies" issue, just because you're on American soil when you "Dropped" a kid doesnt make that kid a citizen! I think it is completely irresponsible to be living Illegally in this country, start a family and have Americans pay for it? it's like hooking up an electric extension cord to your neighbors house and running your lights off of their meter, or stealing someones credit card and buying an Xbox for your kids. it's theft pure and simple in my opinion.

Americans are slow to do anything about it because people are stuck in the Political Correct "Bizzaro World" and think, how can we judge them they're poor people working at burgerking to take care of their family. Well they are having children AFTER they came here and got a job at burgerking! Of course you're going to be poor! How about a little responsibility? but i guess if someone else is paying for it namely American citizens, why not?
It is theft!

The only caveat i will give them is that most of them come from countries run by despots where corruption is the name of the game and the "Law" isnt respectable and can be bought openly. so when they come here they're just doing what is natural for them, the Law is just an obstacle. what they dont understand, and what is frustrating to me is that this country isnt great and prosperous by chance, it is so because of the respect for Law & Order that its Citizens embrace.

Anyway i'm ranting so much that i've forgotten the question.
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Postby ksslemp on Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:58 pm

You know the world is in trouble when a "Who Masterbates?" Poll gets more responses than this Poll!

The world "Dittles" while Rome burns!
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Postby Mr.GandW1 on Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:00 pm

Image
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Postby XenHu on Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:33 pm

Mr.GandW1 wrote:Image


Why do you say that?


-X
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Postby DirtyDishSoap on Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:34 pm

We really do need one

Both partys some how screw up the country in their own special way
Need some independents in Office, not some influnced dip-shit
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Postby Mr.GandW1 on Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:42 pm

XenHu wrote:
Mr.GandW1 wrote:Image


Why do you say that?


-X

even with a 3rd party, USA will still go down hill...
and y do u put "-X" at the end of ur posts?
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Postby XenHu on Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:51 pm

Mr.GandW1 wrote:
XenHu wrote:
Mr.GandW1 wrote:Image


Why do you say that?


-X

and y do u put "-X" at the end of ur posts?


Ask me that question when my Q&A is posted.


-X
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Postby Mr.GandW1 on Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:52 pm

wats ur q and a?
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