The Big Lebowski Mafia - Mafia and Lyncher win!

[Haggis_McMutton]

Ok, re-read this whole thing(god the pcm-Com back and forth is painful).

Thoughts: Both cases on flores and comm seem rather weak, unfortunately I wasn't able to come up with anything particularly stellar either. If push came to shove, I'd go with either of these cases tbh.

Flores: It does seem like you're trying to hide behind (quirky) jokes and flip-flopping to avoid posting much real substance and sorta going with the flow.

Comm: That apparent contradiction is irking me a bit(very nicely spotted btw strike, I missed it even on re-read). I'm not particularly liking your defence either. To be clear, you first said:

I wasn't too suspicious about these 2 before, but this sudden attack from strike on such a small thing does get me interested.

This seems to be referring to strike and yoshi.

A little while latter, you said:

Well, since I see that nothing will happen with PCM (even though I still consider him to be not pro-town), I'm cool with putting more pressure Yoshi (he was 3rd on my list).

Unvote. Vote Yoshi.

Can you explain how this isn't a contradiction?


@ the more theoretical: "Should I post weak casses?" debate, I think you definitely should. This isn't a court of law, you can just note some things you find odd and that can help town by
a. triggering someone else to develop a better case using your puzzle piece and some other info you didn't notice/don't have access to.
b. cause the guy you're suspecting to start talking and thus expose himself further if he's scum.

[VioIet]

Conformity!!

No longer am I left out! I am replacing..errrr.. someone.

Just confirming in the thread. Now its going to take a few days or weeks for me to even read and re-read everything, so please give me some time.

[FloresDelMal]

hey guys, life got quite busy for the frenchy and me, i thought i could have the time and energy for mafia, but obviously i was wrong, i'ts a pity because the game seemed cool, but i need to be replaced, my excuses to the mod.

[Commander9]

You said you hadn't been suspicious of the two of us. I will admit that the two phrases don't mean the exact same thing and it is a bad habit but it is kind of how I look at it. If you see something odd about a post you look it over again and pay closer attention to it. If you don't you may read through it once and just move on. You don't fully pay attention to the case in full detail but instead dismiss it.

Not that it will mean much, but I will say I was paying attention to it.

And I still say you are comparing apples to oranges with the pancake and spiesr arguments.

1. You say we both were pointing someone out.

Similarities: we were pointing out behavior from people we found suspicious. That's usually how people do make cases. They point out suspicious behavior.

Differences:

From my understanding you pointed out pancake because you felt he was not really motivated in participating in discussion or really making cases and are basically calling him complacent about what was going on in the thread.

My case on spiesr: he was willing to participate in discussion but was not straying from popular discussion. I was not calling him complacent or uninterested in voting but seeming to be very cautious about voting. I was also backing up that he was being cautious by how he used questions presumably to leave his comments open ended.

Part of my case however minor is your behavior makes it seem like you are contributing to town by pointing stuff out that has already been mentioned and referencing cases you have but not sharing them with anyone so from my stand point being the first to mention the argument against you not being the first is a major detail.

So yeah real double standards there.

Fair enough - I think I might have misunderstand before what you were trying to say. Even so, this game has been really slow and what I mainly try do with PCM was to get the game moving and hopefully increase the quality of the game so that there would at least be something to read and find scumtells in. Had I not done that, the quality of discussions would probably be even lesser than it is now (although I do like the last page or so).

@ Haggis

Remember that I said that my other cases were weaker than PCM's (which was already weak) and that I didn't fully believe it. Yoshi was 3rd on my list due to him making that hammer and I knew that it alone would have not been sufficient to make a normal case and it would have just looked like I'm trying to find straws.

I can see your point in that argument, but if the case is really week, it can look like you are desperate and just trying to find anything so you could attack. Unless I have at least semi-solid case (in my own mind, anyways), I tend to hold off such cases.

[Anarkistsdream]

Hey guys, I'm about to be in New Orleans for a week and then I'm moving the first of June...

I will be sparse, but I WILL post.

[strike wolf]

Okay I don't really have much against your last post I think you made a few good points but it seems you were rather persistent in your pursuit of pcm (did I mention I used to hate that nickname because I always confused it with pmc) for it to have been a weak case.

[Commander9]

Okay I don't really have much against your last post I think you made a few good points but it seems you were rather persistent in your pursuit of pcm (did I mention I used to hate that nickname because I always confused it with pmc) for it to have been a weak case.

Not so much persistent pursuing as that was more so a debate. Furthermore, you should know by now that I usually tend to stick to my guns, unless something better comes up.

[strike wolf]

So i think we have two days until deadline and most of the people in this game are for the most part absent...I still feel that commander may be the best lead howeverhe has answered some of my accusations pretty well and at the very least without more people weighing on one of the cases or the other...possibly someone bringing something we have overlooked to light..which does not seem likely with the present level of activity I am not convinced this day will end in a lynch or if rushing a lynch with two days left is even the best scenario.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

2. Haggis_McMutton x busy
3. FloresdelMal x asked to be replaced
4. TA1LGUNN3R x awesome
5. AnarkistsDream x I believe him to be town
7. Fircoal 2.0 (replaces Mandalorian2298) x absent
8. Commander9 x possible scum
10. Spiesr x present--tough to read
11. Strike Wolf x present--Not sure I trust him, but more so than Commie
12. Violet (replaces Ga7) x catching up, ga7 didn't contribute much
14.Iliad x busy

Well, in lieu of Flores quitting, I guess I'll unvote until nag can find a replacement. I think the fact that almost no one has any thoughts about the cases on Flores or Commie, assuming they have at least read the game, means that they are indirectly defending them.

As such, vote Commie. His defense was decent, but he's a smooth talker anyway. Really, I think he has played so that he can later justify his actions. He also has yet to say anything regarding Flores.

Right now it's looking like Commie, Flores, and at least one of the other submariners as scum.

-Tails

[Commander9]

I see... A very strong case here indeed. It looks like that whatever I'll do (Whether's not posting a case, posting a case, not arguing about someone as I have nothing to add to what's been said, arguing (PCM)), I'll still be scummy. I'm honored.

[Anarkistsdream]

I see... A very strong case here indeed. It looks like that whatever I'll do (Whether's not posting a case, posting a case, not arguing about someone as I have nothing to add to what's been said, arguing (PCM)), I'll still be scummy. I'm honored.

If it's any consolation, I believe you.
*shrug*

[nagerous]

Ok guys, I'm hunting a replacement for flores right now - apologies for the delay, I'll extend the deadline for another a week/

[nagerous]

Talapus replaces Flores.

[Talapus]

Ok, confirming. Give me some time to get caught up on the happenings here and I'll post my thoughts. Should be cauht up by late tonight or early tomorrow morning.

[Talapus]

Ok, finally read up on the whole thread. First off I'd like to say that reading up until page 20 to realize we pretty much are back at square 1 pissed me off to no end. And I completely agree, reading back through the Comm9 and PCM arguments was very painful. DoomYoshi thing he totally had coming, why would any game keep an SK around(Unless of course it was me in the Simpsons game in which case the answer is to let me win ).

Inactivity in the thread is rampant. This game has been going hard for awhile and we're only up to page 26 which is sad. Typically I could call out the scummy moves of the players ignoring this thread, but so many people have other things going on right now that it makes it hard.

As for the whole Stike argument and his "defending" of Yoshi, I don't really see it as scummy. Stirke is a great player to bring forth discussions and in all the games he plays he leans more to what is right as to whether what looks good or not. Maybe he defended a little hard for a player who isn't a real newb, but I don't see it as a scum move.

With Comm9 the argument is more defined, though still rather weak. The contradictions in his posts do seem scummy, but he admitted that it looked off. Helpful scum, maybe. Confused town, maybe. He is one of the people in this thread who has posted a lot so in all honesty he may just have been confused or forgotten. But with the riding of PCM it makes it look not as good as PCM turned up town.

With the votes against Flores(aka ME) I will admit that some of the playstyle on her part was wierd. Like, very off for Flores. With the indecisivness on Yoshi and then the mandy thing it looks off. But to then forget about the nark argument she made to then going and voting for him out of the blue is really off. And honestly, no clue what was up with that. With Nark in the land of boobs, booze, and jazz it's hard to look into it more, but no idea what was going on there.

Fircoal, Haggis, and illy it would be nice to hear from more. Fircoal in general though hasn't been uber active the last week or so and I am playing another game with Haggis where he had to be prodded to post and argue, so those two may just be busy. Illy though I have no idea on as to where he is.

Vio it's hard to have a read as she posted a confirm, but nothing else since.

As for Ta1ls towness, nark seems convinced, but I don't see it. Although I don't see much else coming from him that would make me think otherwise.

As for Spiesr I just don't know, he pops in and out but it seems mainly he does it when peple talk about him. So scumtell, I honestly don't know.

Honestly we need to hear from some of these players a bit more before we can come up with anything substantial. There isn't anything blatant in this thread right now that is scummy so it makes it hard. It looks like we are headed towards a no lynch at this rate which completely blows as town and 1 SK is all we've lost. The kidnappers in the flick played a big role and we haven't found any of them so we need to get one tonight to really stand a chance. Again though, I think we need more participation from some players here.

For now I won't vote as the two semi cases I see are on me and on comm9. Neither one is strong enough to really persue hard from what I see. I would like to know more about Nark's certainty towards Ta1ls and would like to hear from illy in general as I haven't seen a meaningful post in several pages. For now though, thats all I've got. Sorry all, not much to go on.

Oh, on a side note I have White Russians and that DAMN song stuck in my head right now. This game makes me want to watch this movie again soon.

"I just walked in, just to see what condition my condition was in"........lol

[strike wolf]

Thanks for the vote of confidence tal but I will admit this has been a bad game for me. I will also apologize for my lack of activity. I just feel I have said all I really wanted to on the commander case and he has stated his reasons to a good extent and while decent I have not seen them to be worthy of unvoting. So I haven't really felt I have had much to say.

[VioIet]

4. TA1LGUNN3R x awesome

LOL! A bit baised there, are we?

As such, vote Commie. His defense was decent, but he's a smooth talker anyway. Really, I think he has played so that he can later justify his actions. He also has yet to say anything regarding Flores.

Heh, he is most certainly not, but i need to finish re-reading this thread before I can fairly send a vote his way.

It does seem as though half the people in this game are inactive. That might make it easier to catch up- as there won't be too many new posts.

[Talapus]

How is it that illy posts in a different thread but not this one exactly? It's not like he's around a lot anyway. Of course, the same can be said for other players too at this rate.

[Anarkistsdream]

Sorry, but I still don't believe Commie is scum, here...

[TA1LGUNN3R]

NARK.

Name my role.

-Tails

[Talapus]

NARK.

Name my role.

-Tails

Maybe it was already mentioned and I missed it, it's possible as I caught up and reread the thread. If I did, then sorry. But I would like to know why he is so confident. Also I hope to hear a bit more from Vio and her thoughts once she is caught up. As for the others who are absent, come back to us....lol

[Haggis_McMutton]

Tails kept pushing a case on Nark. Eventually nark said something to the extent of "I know who you are Tails, and I know you're town".
Tails seems to have believed this instantly and said it makes sense given his role.

Tbh, I kinda believe they're innocent, however, if tails wants to get Nark to name his role so we have proof of their status, I've got nothing against it, don't see how a name claim will hurt us too much(and tbh, i think I've already got a pretty good guess of who he is).

In other news, I don't really know what else to say, I'm also waiting for input from Violet and Chu.

[strike wolf]

To be honest, I kind of saw this as the eventual conclusion anyways. You can't come into a game and say you know who somebody is and really expect everyone to move on.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

To be honest, I kind of saw this as the eventual conclusion anyways. You can't come into a game and say you know who somebody is and really expect everyone to move on.

Well, I want to know if Nark is truthful or playing me. I fear that if he indeed has some info, then me pressuring Commie will lead to a repeat of outing a town role.

-Tails

[spiesr]

Well, I want to know if Nark is truthful or playing me. I fear that if he indeed has some info, then me pressuring Commie will lead to a repeat of outing a town role.

So, do you think that he also has info on Commander? Or that you consider yourself or AD to already have been outed? In that case why would you want more info to come out there? Also, you think that Commander will pop up town, then why would you pressure him at all?
Anyhow, now I am trying to decide between leaving my vote on Flores, where Talapus is likely to be unable to explain the things I am explained about Flores's actions, or switching over to Strikewolf for the few things that he said that struck me as scummy...