[Official] Team CC Mafia [Finished]

[DoomYoshi]

You wouldn't be placing all your eggs on the basket of the mafia killing Naxus for us, would you? Mafia has its own agenda, so hoping for cooperation doesn't sound like the way to go. Besides, the pronoun you used was "we", not "they", meaning you are somewhat related to whoever is "getting him" (Naxus) tonight. That leads us back to the possibility of you (or the hunter that found you) having some sort of "vig kill", which you mentioned on D3. That vig power, supposedly acquired during N2 - when you were found - was not used on N3. I just asked for confirmation that we do have a power like this. It can be that Squirrel got roleblocked. It can also be that this power is 1-time only and whoever got him preferred not to use it yet. It can also be that Squirrel got roleblocked AND the power was 1-time only (though I'm not sure if mechanics give him another use or if he wasted it). It can in fact be several possibilities, that's why I'm trying to make sure that town does have this NKing power.

Reading your remarks highlighted in red, I'm not really seeing you stating that a NK on Naxus would only happen "should Naxus would have lied".

Why are you threatening me? Is it a crime to want explanations when things look murky? Not sure why you got extra defensive...

... God, you really need to start reading.

Where did you get this idea of yours that mafia is the way I am counting on a kill on Naxus. I've already started that one of two of us has a vig power and should there be a need, we will use it.

It looks like you are rather trying to get more information on who to recruit next rather than making sure for this town. This serves absolutely no purpose to help town, but it helps cult out A LOT.

How so? Please explain. If there would be a crazed vig, you'd have already seen it.

Things don't look murky at all - you're just (yet again) trying to incriminate me without any evidence and pure speculation with no basis. In other words, trying really hard to get rid of me.

Neither Yoshi, nor Naxus really need immediate attention and I'd rather find out the cult leader... And you seem like a good place to start. Vote Rodion.

Because you stated that on D3 and there was no vig power used on N3. That either means you were lying, you were blocked or you refrained from using the power for whatever motive. I just want to understand what's going on before we take things for granted (like "don't worry, we'll NK him", when there is absolutely NO PROOF that one of you 2 can indeed NK someone - for some reason your N3 chance to show that didn't occur).

If I was a cult recruiter I'd certainly not use my night action on someone that hinted at mechanics that make him unrecruitable from regular means, nor the hunter who recruited him, as he could be unrecruitable himself for similar reasons.

I don't know what a crazed vig is.

Oh, not murky? I don't want to incriminate someone that is widely believe to be town. I just want an explanation on why the power you promised we had was not used last night. It's that simple! Because you're trying to make us believe you (or the hunter) have this power, but we got 0 proof of it so far. Again, all I want is an explanation, but you're getting extremely defensive, up to the point of threatening to NK me and now trying to lynch me. It seems it is you that are trying too hard to get me.

Ooh... he's good... can we keep him mommy?

[safariguy5]

So if Gilligan was the town vig who was recruited cult, then are we saying that there is another one due to the hunter finding Com9 or is this vig one shot or something. Either way, this little disagreement Commander and Rodion are having is interesting, but I think that lynching the supposedly last mafia member would be a good result today.

[Commander9]

Because you stated that on D3 and there was no vig power used on N3. That either means you were lying, you were blocked or you refrained from using the power for whatever motive. I just want to understand what's going on before we take things for granted (like "don't worry, we'll NK him", when there is absolutely NO PROOF that one of you 2 can indeed NK someone - for some reason your N3 chance to show that didn't occur).

If I was a cult recruiter I'd certainly not use my night action on someone that hinted at mechanics that make him unrecruitable from regular means, nor the hunter who recruited him, as he could be unrecruitable himself for similar reasons.

I don't know what a crazed vig is.

Oh, not murky? I don't want to incriminate someone that is widely believe to be town. I just want an explanation on why the power you promised we had was not used last night. It's that simple! Because you're trying to make us believe you (or the hunter) have this power, but we got 0 proof of it so far. Again, all I want is an explanation, but you're getting extremely defensive, up to the point of threatening to NK me and now trying to lynch me. It seems it is you that are trying too hard to get me.

*Deep, deep sigh*

Whatever motive? Why would any conscious vig kill in a night when there are no clear targets? Geee.... Look at Albarezzi or Briarsburg games (just a few examples) and see how useful vigs can be if they just kill anyone they're suspicious off (1-7, 0-4 records are not good). You ask for proof? The only way it's to prove it and if you want to test, I don't mind since I've said already on Day 2 I've considered you to be a shady figure. Good vigs don't kill just because they can - they kill when they need to.

Exactly. Thus, what cannot be recruited has to be killed. Thank you for your good observation.

Trigger-happy vig who kills just because he can. Good vigs are conscious and don't kill just because they're a bit suspicious of a person - they kill those confirmed scum or those people who REALLY stand out. This game wasn't a case. If you want to look how I handle vigs, look at Princess Bride and how I not killed anyone until I had enough evidence and until I killed a mafia member.

Explanation? What explanation? There's nothing to explain. I've stated a lot of times before (you just keep missing it) that vig power shall not be used unless there's enough basis to use it. Extremely defencive? I ALWAYS play aggressive - ask anyone who has played with me. I will always defend myself and question those who use fallacious logic or try to make something out of nothing.

So if Gilligan was the town vig who was recruited cult, then are we saying that there is another one due to the hunter finding Com9 or is this vig one shot or something. Either way, this little disagreement Commander and Rodion are having is interesting, but I think that lynching the supposedly last mafia member would be a good result today.

Disagree - a mafia member can always be NK'd. We need to focus on cult.

[safariguy5]

Because you stated that on D3 and there was no vig power used on N3. That either means you were lying, you were blocked or you refrained from using the power for whatever motive. I just want to understand what's going on before we take things for granted (like "don't worry, we'll NK him", when there is absolutely NO PROOF that one of you 2 can indeed NK someone - for some reason your N3 chance to show that didn't occur).

If I was a cult recruiter I'd certainly not use my night action on someone that hinted at mechanics that make him unrecruitable from regular means, nor the hunter who recruited him, as he could be unrecruitable himself for similar reasons.

I don't know what a crazed vig is.

Oh, not murky? I don't want to incriminate someone that is widely believe to be town. I just want an explanation on why the power you promised we had was not used last night. It's that simple! Because you're trying to make us believe you (or the hunter) have this power, but we got 0 proof of it so far. Again, all I want is an explanation, but you're getting extremely defensive, up to the point of threatening to NK me and now trying to lynch me. It seems it is you that are trying too hard to get me.

*Deep, deep sigh*

Whatever motive? Why would any conscious vig kill in a night when there are no clear targets? Geee.... Look at Albarezzi or Briarsburg games (just a few examples) and see how useful vigs can be if they just kill anyone they're suspicious off (1-7, 0-4 records are not good). You ask for proof? The only way it's to prove it and if you want to test, I don't mind since I've said already on Day 2 I've considered you to be a shady figure. Good vigs don't kill just because they can - they kill when they need to.

Exactly. Thus, what cannot be recruited has to be killed. Thank you for your good observation.

Trigger-happy vig who kills just because he can. Good vigs are conscious and don't kill just because they're a bit suspicious of a person - they kill those confirmed scum or those people who REALLY stand out. This game wasn't a case. If you want to look how I handle vigs, look at Princess Bride and how I not killed anyone until I had enough evidence and until I killed a mafia member.

Explanation? What explanation? There's nothing to explain. I've stated a lot of times before (you just keep missing it) that vig power shall not be used unless there's enough basis to use it. Extremely defencive? I ALWAYS play aggressive - ask anyone who has played with me. I will always defend myself and question those who use fallacious logic or try to make something out of nothing.

So if Gilligan was the town vig who was recruited cult, then are we saying that there is another one due to the hunter finding Com9 or is this vig one shot or something. Either way, this little disagreement Commander and Rodion are having is interesting, but I think that lynching the supposedly last mafia member would be a good result today.

Disagree - a mafia member can always be NK'd. We need to focus on cult.

This is exactly what I'm saying. Are we sure we have another vig? We already lost 1 vig, and so far there has been no indication that the hunter is a vig or even a one-shot vig. Either way, we've outed 1 mafia and 1 cult member, the difference being that if we lynch the mafia member now, there's no chance of a mafia kill on you or the hunter or another town PR while if we lynch the cult, then there's a possibility town could lose 1 person to cult recruitment and 1 to a mafia NK. Also, deadline is coming up and we need to agree on a lynch.

[Rodion]

So if Gilligan was the town vig who was recruited cult, then are we saying that there is another one due to the hunter finding Com9 or is this vig one shot or something. Either way, this little disagreement Commander and Rodion are having is interesting, but I think that lynching the supposedly last mafia member would be a good result today.

While I don't mind that outcome, I would like a chance to finish my conversation with Commander before wagons get to L-2/L-1 and chaos ensures. A quick hammer could leave some things unanswered.

Anyway, since you brought back the "other vig than Gilligan thing", I decided to go back in the thread to find where it all started. Not quite sure if that was the first post of the "we have a vig" saga, but anyway I found something pretty interesting.

Although, I do think I've got another lead - I think we may let our vig (not the cult recruit) take care of Bleed (assuming you guys agree) while we take down a person whom I consider to be a cultie (perhaps a leader). I'll keep you all updated, but I'm heading to class in 15 minutes.

So, there was a promise here of trying to get a cultie lynched and handling Bleed with this "hidden vig" (not Gilligan) during N3. Bleed indeed died, but only because mafia targeted PCM and he busdrove himself with Bleed. The fact that PCM is alive means nobody targeted Bleed. I'm glad PCM escaped that fate, but I'm equally worried about this empty promise. You're not going to hide under the "you didn't expressely agree" clause, will you?

Fastposted by Commander.

So, are you saying you (or the hunter) refrained from killing? THANK YOU! That is ALL I wanted to comprehend. It heavily bothers me that I had to be threatened with a NK and voted to get my answer, though.

Except that I'm not trying to kill you? I've not voted on you or even FOS you? Perhaps because I'm more interested in understanding what is going on rather than getting you killed? Meditate on that.

Like Bleed?

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not trying to "make something out of nothing". If you're going to use the "ask anyone who has played with me card" to get a scan of your personality, then I ask you to check my behavior in our recent USA West game (4x4 between mafia people). It's a foggy map and I know where everyone is, even the ?s. I update the game chat with every enemy's position whenever they change. You can see that for yourself, as you are part of my team (Safari and Yoshi are part of the quads team as well, although Yoshi doesn't really have a reason to confirm what I'm saying). It's just part of my behavior to try to solve the full puzzle by gathering every piece of information I can. And you, Commander, are a giant neutral "?" that I'm trying to figure. It doesn't mean I want you lynched, just unraveled.

I'm just now buying all this huge uptightness over me asking you questions. If you think of yourself as unrecruitable and we have a chance to kill the last mafia member now, what exactly do you fear?

[Commander9]

This is exactly what I'm saying. Are we sure we have another vig? We already lost 1 vig, and so far there has been no indication that the hunter is a vig or even a one-shot vig. Either way, we've outed 1 mafia and 1 cult member, the difference being that if we lynch the mafia member now, there's no chance of a mafia kill on you or the hunter or another town PR while if we lynch the cult, then there's a possibility town could lose 1 person to cult recruitment and 1 to a mafia NK. Also, deadline is coming up and we need to agree on a lynch.

I'd personally prefer to pressure some other people, but if you will in the end decide to go for the mafia member, I won't disagree. The main reason I'm reluctant for this is that even if we lynch the mafia member and NK cultie, we'll still be down a townie tomorrow and cult won't be any weaker.

So, are you saying you (or the hunter) refrained from killing? THANK YOU! That is ALL I wanted to comprehend. It heavily bothers me that I had to be threatened with a NK and voted to get my answer, though.

Except that I'm not trying to kill you? I've not voted on you or even FOS you? Perhaps because I'm more interested in understanding what is going on rather than getting you killed? Meditate on that.

Like Bleed?

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not trying to "make something out of nothing". If you're going to use the "ask anyone who has played with me card" to get a scan of your personality, then I ask you to check my behavior in our recent USA West game (4x4 between mafia people). It's a foggy map and I know where everyone is, even the ?s. I update the game chat with every enemy's position whenever they change. You can see that for yourself, as you are part of my team (Safari and Yoshi are part of the quads team as well, although Yoshi doesn't really have a reason to confirm what I'm saying). It's just part of my behavior to try to solve the full puzzle by gathering every piece of information I can. And you, Commander, are a giant neutral "?" that I'm trying to figure. It doesn't mean I want you lynched, just unraveled.

I'm just now buying all this huge uptightness over me asking you questions. If you think of yourself as unrecruitable and we have a chance to kill the last mafia member now, what exactly do you fear?

For being such an aggressive and "good" guy, you sure skim a lot. Did you miss this post? It heavily bothers me that a self pro-claimed townie who's trying to "guide everyone into the right direction" doesn't even bother to read my posts.

That's corrected - I didn't attempt any NK's.

King Achilles is a multihunter right? It is possible for him to be investigative also?

I think all fingers point to naxus right now though.

vote naxus

King Achilles is an Administrator, although I believe he was a multihunter a while ago.

You attempted to lynch me yesterday and right now you're also attempting to show me in bad light - basically same thing, except this time you are smarter and not going the straight head to head.

At that time while bleed was a bit suspicious, there was nothing suggest why we should kill him. If we killed him and turned out to be town, we'd have been attacked either way, so right here you're trying to guide me into a corridor with no right answer. Not buying this - and this exactly why my vote is on you. You twist, manipulate, lie, but don't really anything about yourself.

While I don't agree with everything you've said here, but there is some truth in it. I do agree that the way you played that game does somewhat show you as a control freak, but that doesn't justify you as not being scum. I've seen other games where you did the same thing and you were not pro-town. All of the information needed about me is already on the table, but you're trying something else here.

[Rodion]

For being such an aggressive and "good" guy, you sure skim a lot. Did you miss this post? It heavily bothers me that a self pro-claimed townie who's trying to "guide everyone into the right direction" doesn't even bother to read my posts.

That's corrected - I didn't attempt any NK's.

King Achilles is a multihunter right? It is possible for him to be investigative also?

I think all fingers point to naxus right now though.

vote naxus

King Achilles is an Administrator, although I believe he was a multihunter a while ago.

Didn't miss it, just didn't find a lot of sense in it. "That's corrected" - for starters, what did you mean with that? Were you replying to someone? Because I can't imagine who you were replying to. Besides, you never really explained that you were the one with the NKing power. All your D3 talk said the town had a NK, but we didn't know if it was yours or the hunter's: you just said you "got powers" and the hunter "got powers" as well. In others words, stating you did not attempt a NK means nothing if we didn't get a simple answer regarding WHO is capable of performing the NK. Are you confessing you got NKing powers?

And while we're at it, KA is an administrator responsible for the C&A forum (multihunters).

You attempted to lynch me yesterday and right now you're also attempting to show me in bad light - basically same thing, except this time you are smarter and not going the straight head to head.

I attempted to lynch you? Show proof (or take your paranoidism medication).

At that time while bleed was a bit suspicious, there was nothing suggest why we should kill him. If we killed him and turned out to be town, we'd have been attacked either way, so right here you're trying to guide me into a corridor with no right answer. Not buying this - and this exactly why my vote is on you. You twist, manipulate, lie, but don't really anything about yourself.

I'm not twisting, manipulating or lying about anything. You just said that, instead of pursuing Bleed, we could try to find a cultie and get Bleed NKed. Bleed did not get targeted with a NK (he died due to a busdrive). If you don't have a good answer for that, it really isn't my fault.

While I don't agree with everything you've said here, but there is some truth in it. I do agree that the way you played that game does somewhat show you as a control freak, but that doesn't justify you as not being scum. I've seen other games where you did the same thing and you were not pro-town. All of the information needed about me is already on the table, but you're trying something else here.

So, now you think I'm scum? Make up your mind, please, you're making a fool out of yourself. And you again misinterpret: my argument was not "I'm always a control freak, thus I'm not scum". The correct interpretation is "I always like to stockpile information and that's why I'm interrogating you: that doesn't necessarily mean I want you killed". That was in response to your claim that I was trying to make "something out of nothing" (and also to the insinuation you made about me wanting you killed). And you said you've seen "other gameS" where I did the same thing, but the truth is I only have 1 completed game.

Frankly, the way you're conducting yourself makes me think there's something shady in this "KA turns town" story. And I honestly started my questions with no real suspicions on you and only the curiosity of why the promised NK was not delivered. My first suspicion was that Squirrel was the hunter, he tried a NK but was roleblocked - a hypothesis that is not "anti-Commander" at all. For some unknown reason you got extremely uptight about everything and decided to threaten me and ultimately vote on me (perhaps to scare me and make my inconvenient questions vanish? - hint: it won't work while I'm alive).

And to top it all, we have a Commander that claims to be town and says he's probably unrecruitable being afraid of elaborating on his powers. He can't really die if we lynch Yoshi. He can't be recruited if he's unrecruitable (and if he's recruitable and recruited, he doesn't lose the game, he just changes sides). Those things considered, what scares you, my dear Commander?

[DoomYoshi]

It is interesting. If Comm9 had used his power that he promised, pcm would be dead tonight. That makes me think somehow that there is a chat ability between pcm and Comm9. Does this mean they are cult?

[Rodion]

It is interesting. If Comm9 had used his power that he promised, pcm would be dead tonight. That makes me think somehow that there is a chat ability between pcm and Comm9. Does this mean they are cult?

Not really. If they could talk, PCM could have easily decided to let Commander kill Bleed while busdriving himself with someone other than Bleed. I don't think those 2 can talk.

[DoomYoshi]

It is interesting. If Comm9 had used his power that he promised, pcm would be dead tonight. That makes me think somehow that there is a chat ability between pcm and Comm9. Does this mean they are cult?

Not really. If they could talk, PCM could have easily decided to let Commander kill Bleed while busdriving himself with someone other than Bleed. I don't think those 2 can talk.

Well at the very least, it proves that either pcm didn't trust that there was a town NK (the kind of information only scum would have), or pcm was skimming (which means he is scum). I think we found our N1 recruit.

[Commander9]

Didn't miss it, just didn't find a lot of sense in it. "That's corrected" - for starters, what did you mean with that? Were you replying to someone? Because I can't imagine who you were replying to. Besides, you never really explained that you were the one with the NKing power. All your D3 talk said the town had a NK, but we didn't know if it was yours or the hunter's: you just said you "got powers" and the hunter "got powers" as well. In others words, stating you did not attempt a NK means nothing if we didn't get a simple answer regarding WHO is capable of performing the NK. Are you confessing you got NKing powers?

Now you pretend not to have understood what I have said due to grammatical error - very nice. I've said it before - and I shall say it again: I've already said all I will say as saying anything else would be putting town to disadvantage

I attempted to lynch you? Show proof (or take your paranoidism medication).

Apparently, after re-reading, I am afraid I will concede that this point was moot and that I may need to start taking my medication.

I'm not twisting, manipulating or lying about anything. You just said that, instead of pursuing Bleed, we could try to find a cultie and get Bleed NKed. Bleed did not get targeted with a NK (he died due to a busdrive). If you don't have a good answer for that, it really isn't my fault.

Read below.

So, now you think I'm scum? Make up your mind, please, you're making a fool out of yourself. And you again misinterpret: my argument was not "I'm always a control freak, thus I'm not scum". The correct interpretation is "I always like to stockpile information and that's why I'm interrogating you: that doesn't necessarily mean I want you killed". That was in response to your claim that I was trying to make "something out of nothing" (and also to the insinuation you made about me wanting you killed). And you said you've seen "other gameS" where I did the same thing, but the truth is I only have 1 completed game.

Well, I basically think you're a cultie How am I making a fool of myself? No, I didn't misinterpret your argument - however I completely disagreed with what you were doing and I said just that. Right now putting this information would only benefit the cult and that's exactly what you've been doing. Admittedly, I was wrong - you never said you wanted me dead, but you still twisted the facts - I said a long time ago that no NK was attempted, yet you're continuing to push on that and trying to do something here.

Frankly, the way you're conducting yourself makes me think there's something shady in this "KA turns town" story. And I honestly started my questions with no real suspicions on you and only the curiosity of why the promised NK was not delivered. My first suspicion was that Squirrel was the hunter, he tried a NK but was roleblocked - a hypothesis that is not "anti-Commander" at all. For some unknown reason you got extremely uptight about everything and decided to threaten me and ultimately vote on me (perhaps to scare me and make my inconvenient questions vanish? - hint: it won't work while I'm alive).

Yet again - Mr. Squirrel has nothing to do with me. If you're looking for the hunter, you have to look elsewhere. As far as "promised kill" - I said that I wanted to see that majority of people thought it was a good idea - and that didn't happen (unless I'm unaware of that fact). Threatening? Not too much. I'm trying to say that we've already reached an impasse and that this argument is going nowhere.

And to top it all, we have a Commander that claims to be town and says he's probably unrecruitable being afraid of elaborating on his powers. He can't really die if we lynch Yoshi. He can't be recruited if he's unrecruitable (and if he's recruitable and recruited, he doesn't lose the game, he just changes sides). Those things considered, what scares you, my dear Commander?

I said I might be unrecruitable - I never said I definitely was. As far as my powers go - I've already said enough times that if I reveal my powers, they will be undone and I shall not do that even if I'd be lynched. Can you elaborate on the very last part?

[Metsfanmax]

I said I might be unrecruitable - I never said I definitely was. As far as my powers go - I've already said enough times that if I reveal my powers, they will be undone and I shall not do that even if I'd be lynched. Can you elaborate on the very last part?

Convenient copout. Even a vanilla townie, if that is indeed what you'd become after revealing your power, is useful to us in that it means we can avoid a wasted lynch.

[jonty125]

FOS commander, not to sure on his defense.

[Commander9]

Convenient copout. Even a vanilla townie, if that is indeed what you'd become after revealing your power, is useful to us in that it means we can avoid a wasted lynch.

How so? Explain.

FOS commander, not to sure on his defense.

Interested in providing any reasons?

[jonty125]

FOS commander, not to sure on his defense.

Interested in providing any reasons?

If you were a town vig I would have expected results by now, also if there was a mafia hunter then why couldn't there be a cult hunter? In addition, you seem to be very secretive about what you are and what your not, and I don't buy your claim of 'I will turn into a VT'. It seems also too convienent.

[Commander9]

If you were a town vig I would have expected results by now, also if there was a mafia hunter then why couldn't there be a cult hunter? In addition, you seem to be very secretive about what you are and what your not, and I don't buy your claim of 'I will turn into a VT'. It seems also too convienent.

Briarsburg Mafia vigilante Karel: 1 mafia killed, 6 or 7 townies
Albarezzi Mafia vigilante Anarkist: 0 mafia killed, 4 townies killed.
Princess Bride mafia vigilante Commander9: 1 mafia killed, 0 townies killed.

When I'm a vig, I actually use my brain and don't kill a person unless I am at least 85% SURE he's not pro-town.


Cult has 2 recruiters? Don't you think it would be a bit TOO imbalanced?

And with this you'll have to live. Just like in another games, if I consider that town would be better off without me revealing everything, I will do that - even if pressured.

[jonty125]

I am not saying that the cult has 2 recruiters, I was suggesting that someone could be on the cult's side looking for you and you alone and when they found you they would become a Vanilla Cultie.

[Commander9]

I am not saying that the cult has 2 recruiters, I was suggesting that someone could be on the cult's side looking for you and you alone and when they found you they would become a Vanilla Cultie.

Doubtful, but cult did start with 2 people, so not completely impossible. Tell me this though - if I were in a cult, wouldn't I use vig powers at every time possible to kill off town quickly?

[Rodion]

Didn't miss it, just didn't find a lot of sense in it. "That's corrected" - for starters, what did you mean with that? Were you replying to someone? Because I can't imagine who you were replying to. Besides, you never really explained that you were the one with the NKing power. All your D3 talk said the town had a NK, but we didn't know if it was yours or the hunter's: you just said you "got powers" and the hunter "got powers" as well. In others words, stating you did not attempt a NK means nothing if we didn't get a simple answer regarding WHO is capable of performing the NK. Are you confessing you got NKing powers?

Now you pretend not to have understood what I have said due to grammatical error - very nice. I've said it before - and I shall say it again: I've already said all I will say as saying anything else would be putting town to disadvantage

Believe it or not, those 2 extra letters were enough to confuse me.

I attempted to lynch you? Show proof (or take your paranoidism medication).

Apparently, after re-reading, I am afraid I will concede that this point was moot and that I may need to start taking my medication.

Good.

Well, I basically think you're a cultie How am I making a fool of myself? No, I didn't misinterpret your argument - however I completely disagreed with what you were doing and I said just that. Right now putting this information would only benefit the cult and that's exactly what you've been doing. Admittedly, I was wrong - you never said you wanted me dead, but you still twisted the facts - I said a long time ago that no NK was attempted, yet you're continuing to push on that and trying to do something here.

I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume by "scum" you meant "anti-town", which can go either mafia or cult: that makes you less of a fool by concluding your opinion on me is not changing like a ping-pong ball. Good that you admit again that you were wrong. I never wanted you dead. You still, however, think I twisted the facts. You mentioned that you did not attempt a NK (and with a confusing expression that got me lost), but it was not established that YOU were the one with the NK power and not the hunter that found you. That means saying you didn't attempt a NK had 0 value, so it was not like I was trying to make something out of nothing.

Frankly, the way you're conducting yourself makes me think there's something shady in this "KA turns town" story. And I honestly started my questions with no real suspicions on you and only the curiosity of why the promised NK was not delivered. My first suspicion was that Squirrel was the hunter, he tried a NK but was roleblocked - a hypothesis that is not "anti-Commander" at all. For some unknown reason you got extremely uptight about everything and decided to threaten me and ultimately vote on me (perhaps to scare me and make my inconvenient questions vanish? - hint: it won't work while I'm alive).

Yet again - Mr. Squirrel has nothing to do with me. If you're looking for the hunter, you have to look elsewhere. As far as "promised kill" - I said that I wanted to see that majority of people thought it was a good idea - and that didn't happen (unless I'm unaware of that fact). Threatening? Not too much. I'm trying to say that we've already reached an impasse and that this argument is going nowhere.

You said that. Mr. Squirrel also said that. He later explained he was actually trying an investigation, not a NK. I just wrote that paragraph to show you that my original intent of questioning was not to put you in a bad light (as my original hypothesis was not negative to you at all), but merely to acquire information.

And, while after your "offer" nobody said "yes, do not forget to get Bleed NKed", we can also equally state that nobody said "I'd rather have you refrain from performing your NK on Bleed (or anyone else) tonight". I think you failed on your responsibility here by not bringing that subject again (until you had most people manifest themselves on your NK use) before we got Gilligan lynched. That's just my opinion, though.

And to top it all, we have a Commander that claims to be town and says he's probably unrecruitable being afraid of elaborating on his powers. He can't really die if we lynch Yoshi. He can't be recruited if he's unrecruitable (and if he's recruitable and recruited, he doesn't lose the game, he just changes sides). Those things considered, what scares you, my dear Commander?

I said I might be unrecruitable - I never said I definitely was. As far as my powers go - I've already said enough times that if I reveal my powers, they will be undone and I shall not do that even if I'd be lynched. Can you elaborate on the very last part?

In the end, it doesn't really matter whether you are unrecruitable or not. Assuming you're town like you claim you are. Your optimal choice would be to claim your full powers and get Yoshi lynched (so there are no NKs against you). Asking PCM not to busdrive you could also be an optimal move, as you don't risk killing yourself. Anyway, after killing Yoshi and establishing that you are unkillable, here's what we have.

1 - If the cult attempts to recruit you and you are unrecruitable, they have wasted their night action on you. You're still town and you managed to waste a cult night action.
2 - If the cult attempts to recruit you and you are recruitable, they did not waste your night action on you. And that is actually good for you, because you're now from the cult and your winning condition has changed (again).

From what I understand from my mafia games so far (1 completed and 3 active), the reason pro-town people try to hide their identities is so they are not killed by the mafia if they reveal themselves to be too powerful. You can eliminate that threat right now by lynching Yoshi (since, as of now, nobody has disputed his affirmation that there are only 4 mafia, not 5). This is why I asked what exactly you fear by explaining more about your powers.

Now, you've just said that your powers are undone if you explain them. Assuming that is true, it can either be:
a) your powers rely on "psychology" to some extent - by telling people what you can do, these tactics become unnefective (as people can expect that from you and change their behaviours accordingly)
b) you were imposed a restriction - mod said he'd metaphysically strip you from your powers if you mentioned them.

Can you at least tell us if it's "a" or "b"?

And a question to everyone with experience: when you have some sort of posting restriction, how far can you go as explaining that you can't quite explain what people want due to a restriction?

[jonty125]

No you wouldn't, because the more expirenced mafia gamers will be able to metagame when you played Princess Bride mafia and know when your a townie vig you don't go into super kill mode and won't buy your towine claim. Also you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot by lynching cult.

Fastpost:Haven't read Rodion's post, sorry if this contradicts or rementions anything he said.

[Commander9]

I really don't have enough time today and probably won't have enough time tomorrow (maybe tomorrow late night), but I'll respond on Sunday to everything.

[jonty125]

Will be away for 48 hours.

[Rodion]

While I wait for Commander's response, there's something else I've just realized.

I think it's safe to conclude that Gilligan killed Firth during N2. Naxus claimed on D3 and said he N2 investigated Gilligan.

Last night I got that gilligan is a recruited third party and didn't go anywhere

How could he have gotten the result that Gilligan didn't go anywhere if the flavour indicated that the vig killed Firth?

That apparent lie made me consider what Naxus could possibly win by hiding the truth. Then I decided to consider Naxus as the cult recruiter and see if his actions made sense from that perspective. I also found some "holes" that keep the puzzle from fitting perfectly.
Disclaimer: this is just a theory. Feel free to help me with finding more holes (or solution to holes), as it can be wrong (or right).

I'm being BWed. I can't really claim recruiter, so I need to make a believable fake claim. Perhaps I could claim cop and throw one of my recruited minions under the bus? The minion would obviously realize he had to die for a greater cause and would make a poor defense, thus getting lynched. Upon his death he would flip "recruited" and confirm my story. I'd get credibility as the town cop and be under the radar. Yes, mafia could target me, but after getting my cop claim to stick the doctor would probably protect me, so I'd be safe.
Hole 1 - the real cop could counterclaim
Possible explanation nº 1 - maybe his N1 recruit was the cop, so he'd be safe from that counterclaim
Possible explanation nº 2 - maybe he could get people to believe there were 2 cops.
Possible explanation nº 3 - maybe he could get Gilligan lynched before the cop appeared (and when Gilligan indeed flipped recruited, the other cop would not counterclaim and simply believe there were indeed 2 cops

Hole 2 - why lie about Gilligan not visiting anyone?
Possible explanation nº 1 - I can't come up with a logical answer for that other than Naxus making a mistake in the heat of the moment

Screw my luck. I claimed investigative and now the player I recruited was investigative himself (why is this flavour SO deep?). People are suspicious of me again. If I say I was not recruited, that might get people even more suspicious and lynch me. Well, first let's see if the guy I recruited is smart enough to die for the cause. I'll give him time to confess he was recruited and tell who he found to be mafia. Even if that mafia is not lynched, they can still think I'm town. Oh no, time passed and he didn't contribute. I pretty much have 2 plans now. 1 - I get people to believe there are 2 investigative roles and I was not the one recruited. 2 - I "confess" I was recruited but say the town should worry about the last mafia or the recruiter. "1" has a big problem - even if there are 2 investigative roles, it makes a lot of sense that the cult would target me, the one who claimed and that could be their biggest threat (if I made people believe I could identify whether someone was "recruited to the cult", people may believe the recruiter got scared of the report I would get on him). 2 sounds better, as indeed killing recruited people won't lead the town to victory (the recruiter can always recruit someone else). Thus, by "confessing" that I was recruited, I can get people to think I'm harmless, look for the recruiter/last mafia and live to see another day. Of course, I can't keep giving guilty reports away or I might be unmasked, so let me say someone was innocent and didn't go anywhere. Who? Perhaps someone that would certainly not dispute that fact. One of my 3 culties? Hmmm, I guess Yoshi will have to do.

People are talking about getting Naxus NKed. I can't let that happen. I'll try to advocate on why Naxus should not be NKed. Oh, no! Now Safari is questioning me and it's getting ugly. Maybe now I claim mafia and try to get people to lynch me. This way, Naxus can survive. I'll have to claim I became godfather, of course, since Naxus did state I was innocent. The real The Saxlad will obviously not counterclaim as he doesn't want to die. That means I can either get lynched or be another good NK target, thus taking pressure off of Naxus.

The fact that Yoshi is not really mafia explains why he never got to know Hank's powers (which he should, as he claimed Bleed gave them the ability to talk during the day). It also explains why he says mafia killed Streaker on N1 (which was the known target - the other target is still unknown as he was protected)

[Mr. Squirrel]

While I wait for Commander's response, there's something else I've just realized.

I think it's safe to conclude that Gilligan killed Firth during N2. Naxus claimed on D3 and said he N2 investigated Gilligan.

Last night I got that gilligan is a recruited third party and didn't go anywhere

How could he have gotten the result that Gilligan didn't go anywhere if the flavour indicated that the vig killed Firth?

That apparent lie made me consider what Naxus could possibly win by hiding the truth. Then I decided to consider Naxus as the cult recruiter and see if his actions made sense from that perspective. I also found some "holes" that keep the puzzle from fitting perfectly.
Disclaimer: this is just a theory. Feel free to help me with finding more holes (or solution to holes), as it can be wrong (or right).

I'm being BWed. I can't really claim recruiter, so I need to make a believable fake claim. Perhaps I could claim cop and throw one of my recruited minions under the bus? The minion would obviously realize he had to die for a greater cause and would make a poor defense, thus getting lynched. Upon his death he would flip "recruited" and confirm my story. I'd get credibility as the town cop and be under the radar. Yes, mafia could target me, but after getting my cop claim to stick the doctor would probably protect me, so I'd be safe.
Hole 1 - the real cop could counterclaim
Possible explanation nº 1 - maybe his N1 recruit was the cop, so he'd be safe from that counterclaim
Possible explanation nº 2 - maybe he could get people to believe there were 2 cops.
Possible explanation nº 3 - maybe he could get Gilligan lynched before the cop appeared (and when Gilligan indeed flipped recruited, the other cop would not counterclaim and simply believe there were indeed 2 cops

Hole 2 - why lie about Gilligan not visiting anyone?
Possible explanation nº 1 - I can't come up with a logical answer for that other than Naxus making a mistake in the heat of the moment

Screw my luck. I claimed investigative and now the player I recruited was investigative himself (why is this flavour SO deep?). People are suspicious of me again. If I say I was not recruited, that might get people even more suspicious and lynch me. Well, first let's see if the guy I recruited is smart enough to die for the cause. I'll give him time to confess he was recruited and tell who he found to be mafia. Even if that mafia is not lynched, they can still think I'm town. Oh no, time passed and he didn't contribute. I pretty much have 2 plans now. 1 - I get people to believe there are 2 investigative roles and I was not the one recruited. 2 - I "confess" I was recruited but say the town should worry about the last mafia or the recruiter. "1" has a big problem - even if there are 2 investigative roles, it makes a lot of sense that the cult would target me, the one who claimed and that could be their biggest threat (if I made people believe I could identify whether someone was "recruited to the cult", people may believe the recruiter got scared of the report I would get on him). 2 sounds better, as indeed killing recruited people won't lead the town to victory (the recruiter can always recruit someone else). Thus, by "confessing" that I was recruited, I can get people to think I'm harmless, look for the recruiter/last mafia and live to see another day. Of course, I can't keep giving guilty reports away or I might be unmasked, so let me say someone was innocent and didn't go anywhere. Who? Perhaps someone that would certainly not dispute that fact. One of my 3 culties? Hmmm, I guess Yoshi will have to do.

People are talking about getting Naxus NKed. I can't let that happen. I'll try to advocate on why Naxus should not be NKed. Oh, no! Now Safari is questioning me and it's getting ugly. Maybe now I claim mafia and try to get people to lynch me. This way, Naxus can survive. I'll have to claim I became godfather, of course, since Naxus did state I was innocent. The real The Saxlad will obviously not counterclaim as he doesn't want to die. That means I can either get lynched or be another good NK target, thus taking pressure off of Naxus.

The fact that Yoshi is not really mafia explains why he never got to know Hank's powers (which he should, as he claimed Bleed gave them the ability to talk during the day). It also explains why he says mafia killed Streaker on N1 (which was the known target - the other target is still unknown as he was protected)

[Victor Sullivan]

Dammit, Mr. Squirrel!