[Endgame] Firefly Mafia

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Hey all--

I'm replacing mandy. I will try and read up tonight after work, so I may post either tonight or tomorrow morning (for me, most likely afternoon for y'all).

-A catching up Tails

[safariguy5]

Even though Nark has given up, I am not comfortable voting for a townie.

That means that if Jayne will turn out to be not pro-town, we might know where to investigate next

I am not sure that he is town, but he has hinted at it. I will say for the record, I am not involved with Nark in any way. However, it appears he is voting himself since he is frustrated with the arguing, not because he actually is scum.

Well he has said that he is a minor town character and that he's not very useful. Given the amount of town roles outed, getting a VT isn't the worst outcome to Day 1 due to deadline and small possibility that he might not be town.

[Anarkistsdream]

I never said VT... And, DoomYoshi is 100% correct. I made a stupid move... It happens from time to time... I honestly assumed the argument against me, even though only written and perhaps believed by one person, was better than you guys obviously think it was. However, if the argument had been on you, and been as accurate as it was with me, I am sure a few of you out there would have made the same mistake.

I don't mean to frustrate anyone, not the mod, the players, OR myself. I screwed up, but I'm willing to continue. I'm also willing to be a twon lynch if people think it is the best course of action at this time. What I DON'T think is a good course of action is to replace me and have some sad bastard get stuck with my mistake...

[DoomYoshi]

vote tails. Welcome to the game!

[Commander9]

For the record, I'm still not buying this. It could be true and legit, but it could also be manipulation (if it is, it's working - well done). In theme games like this, I prefer not to have such ambiguous characters who can easily be not pro-town.

[DoomYoshi]

For the record, I'm still not buying this. It could be true and legit, but it could also be manipulation (if it is, it's working - well done). In theme games like this, I prefer not to have such ambiguous characters who can easily be not pro-town.

As I know not the setting, I cannot flavor spec. If a majority of the players agree with you, that's fine, I am not going to defend Nark any more than I already have. I am just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[nagerous]

I have read up, and personally I am to side with DoomYoshi on this one. I have not watched the show at all so I fear I am at a disadvantage when speculating as to the flavour but I don't think Nark would have been as outlandish to just outright name-claim if he was a 3rd party. There is therefore no justification in my eyes to this subsequent bandwagon, which doesn't have my backing.

Either way, unvote fircola

[Talapus]

Well with the deadline coming up, we are running out of time, but I still find it hard to believe that Jayne would be scum. Also with the open admittence of bad play by nark I really am not too sure he is the best bet. Finally, where the heck is Vioiet? I made a case against you and I want to discuss, something isn't adding up with you and I think it likely that it's because it never will. Unless you come back with some great answers for your actions then not only will my vote remain on you for the rest of today, but you'll be my first vote on day 2 as well unless major evidence or a scum slipup else where changes my mind. Come Vio.....talk to me. I want some answers woman!

[strike wolf]

Well with the deadline coming up, we are running out of time, but I still find it hard to believe that Jayne would be scum. Also with the open admittence of bad play by nark I really am not too sure he is the best bet. Finally, where the heck is Vioiet? I made a case against you and I want to discuss, something isn't adding up with you and I think it likely that it's because it never will. Unless you come back with some great answers for your actions then not only will my vote remain on you for the rest of today, but you'll be my first vote on day 2 as well unless major evidence or a scum slipup else where changes my mind. Come Vio.....talk to me. I want some answers woman!

Well it has only been a couple days since her last post but considering the timing and all that's gone on since plus the deadline it is an odd time to be silent.

My opinion on the nark case is as follows, it would be absolutely idiotic for a third party who most likely wants to survive to play as he has. I know for a fact that nark isn't an idiot. There really only two realistic options I see. One is that nark is Jayne and he is telling the truth. If he really has a crappy role he probably didn't see much point in hiding it. The second option is he is third party and he lied about the character name. This honestly doesn't make any sense to me but it makes more sense to me than assuming Jayne is a non-town role as any non-town role jayne could be does not make sense considering his actions.

So if he is Jayne and he has a crappy role I honestly feel there isn't any use killing him off as it would be a town lynch which is as good as giving the mafia a second kill. If he isn't jayne there is a good chance the real Jayne is a vig so he could potentially be killed off over night anyways.

Honestly I suspect that some of the people pushing for Nark's lynch right now are mafia taking advantage of the fact he has claimed a character who has questionable allegiance.

[Talapus]

Well it has only been a couple days since her last post but considering the timing and all that's gone on since plus the deadline it is an odd time to be silent.

Especially since she had time to show up this morning and signup for resort mafia in the game thread. Thats why I'm pushing it at the moment. I really don't think we'll get much out of a nark vote and at least with this it can get others thinking about potential scum.

[Commander9]

Honestly I suspect that some of the people pushing for Nark's lynch right now are mafia taking advantage of the fact he has claimed a character who has questionable allegiance.

While I didn't agree fully agree with Nark analysis (if you'd like to, I can easily compile his actions from the series where he acts very amorally), but I agree that he's most likely not Mafia (my bet would be a 3rd party or SK) and mafia most likely would try to get him out.

[strike wolf]

Well it has only been a couple days since her last post but considering the timing and all that's gone on since plus the deadline it is an odd time to be silent.

Especially since she had time to show up this morning and signup for resort mafia in the game thread. Thats why I'm pushing it at the moment. I really don't think we'll get much out of a nark vote and at least with this it can get others thinking about potential scum.

Agreed 100%

@ commander: sk really? Not only does that not make sense with the character, there are characters that would fit the sk role much better (reavers, Niska). Again if he was an sk he shouldn't have been so quick to role claim especially with the fact his role had already been argued as being possibly not pro town.

As far as amorally, I could make the same case for other characters on the show even on the ship. Mal Reynolds is not the most moral person in the world either, but certainly you wouldn't make a case for him being non pro town would you?

[Commander9]

@ commander: sk really? Not only does that not make sense with the character, there are characters that would fit the sk role much better (reavers, Niska). Again if he was an sk he shouldn't have been so quick to role claim especially with the fact his role had already been argued as being possibly not pro town.

As far as amorally, I could make the same case for other characters on the show even on the ship. Mal Reynolds is not the most moral person in the world either, but certainly you wouldn't make a case for him being non pro town would you?

Yes, I'd say he could be a potential SK'er, although I do agree that there are better examples (There are much better than Niska as well). Well, we don't know if mafia is provided fake claims and we know that he's not extremely good at fake claiming, so he could have claimed Jayne with hopes that feel that he's pro-town... And it worked.

... Please don't tell me you're comparing Mal's and Jayne's morality? Mal might have done some a bit amoral things (like stealing), but it is clearly shown that he's a caring and good person (even if he has his own deficiencies). Jayne, on the other hand, he has been clearly shown as a thug who wants money and who cares about barely anyone (He cares about Mal, I won't argue that, but his loyalty towards everyone else is questionable at best).

Anyways, I most likely won't be back and respond until Sunday.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Made it to page 21...Will finish later tonight.

-Tails

[strike wolf]

@ commander: sk really? Not only does that not make sense with the character, there are characters that would fit the sk role much better (reavers, Niska). Again if he was an sk he shouldn't have been so quick to role claim especially with the fact his role had already been argued as being possibly not pro town.

As far as amorally, I could make the same case for other characters on the show even on the ship. Mal Reynolds is not the most moral person in the world either, but certainly you wouldn't make a case for him being non pro town would you?

Yes, I'd say he could be a potential SK'er, although I do agree that there are better examples (There are much better than Niska as well). Well, we don't know if mafia is provided fake claims and we know that he's not extremely good at fake claiming, so he could have claimed Jayne with hopes that feel that he's pro-town... And it worked.

better than Niska probably but niska was a recurring villian unlike most and he definitely fits the role better than Jayne. Jayne was never a villain and only shot people who were villains. If he did fake claim jayne like I said the real one is likely a vig but I really doubt he fake claimed Jayne.

... Please don't tell me you're comparing Mal's and Jayne's morality? Mal might have done some a bit amoral things (like stealing), but it is clearly shown that he's a caring and good person (even if he has his own deficiencies). Jayne, on the other hand, he has been clearly shown as a thug who wants money and who cares about barely anyone (He cares about Mal, I won't argue that, but his loyalty towards everyone else is questionable at best).

Anyways, I most likely won't be back and respond until Sunday.

Certainly Mal is better in most circumstances but he is by no means moral. He dod some things through the course of the show and in the movie that the rest of his crew including Jayne would never even consider. Not to mention he has a tendency to go around picking fights. Either way it was just one example and if every amoral character on the show was a bad guy, well wed be in trouble. the crew in general is not the most moral with the exception of two arguably three characters who more or less are and they while most definitely accepted were looked on differently than the other crew members were. I would also say the only person he really shows any dislike for is Simon and the rest of his actions are more characteristic of the tough guy persona that the creator wanted.

[safariguy5]

Well I really thought Nark was giving up the game, but it seems like if he's going to stay around a while longer and is not a VT, then there may still be value to be had from his role. I'm really leery about a 4th pressure Day 1, and I'm not noticing real strong sentiment for pressuring Vio (i.e. not very many votes) and I have suggested no lynches after enough claims on Day 1 before, but I've mostly been shot down and/or voted.

So I will unvote for now and suggest the consideration for a no lynch for today.

[Talapus]

Well I really thought Nark was giving up the game, but it seems like if he's going to stay around a while longer and is not a VT, then there may still be value to be had from his role. I'm really leery about a 4th pressure Day 1, and I'm not noticing real strong sentiment for pressuring Vio (i.e. not very many votes) and I have suggested no lynches after enough claims on Day 1 before, but I've mostly been shot down and/or voted.

So I will unvote for now and suggest the consideration for a no lynch for today.

It's hard when she won't stick her head in and talk though. I've noticed sheep around a few times too but again, no talking. Outing 3 town and a no lynch though is a really crappy thing for town. Thats will just screw us more.

[safariguy5]

Well I really thought Nark was giving up the game, but it seems like if he's going to stay around a while longer and is not a VT, then there may still be value to be had from his role. I'm really leery about a 4th pressure Day 1, and I'm not noticing real strong sentiment for pressuring Vio (i.e. not very many votes) and I have suggested no lynches after enough claims on Day 1 before, but I've mostly been shot down and/or voted.

So I will unvote for now and suggest the consideration for a no lynch for today.

It's hard when she won't stick her head in and talk though. I've noticed sheep around a few times too but again, no talking. Outing 3 town and a no lynch though is a really crappy thing for town. Thats will just screw us more.

As opposed to possibly outing 4 town and getting deadlined? We already have to worry about our doc dying, I want to try and keep all our power roles remaining hidden if possible.

[strike wolf]

I'd actually vote no lynch and will if things keep going down a bad track but like I said earlier I would rather discuss without outing more roles at this point. The only viable case right now is nark (vio won't develop fast enough and coming up with any others at this point would be even more fruitless) and I think I made it pretty clear over the last page I do not support the reasoning for that wagon. We have three claimed roles. One very important one we can't afford to lose. One semi-important one I would like to keep around if possible and one who claims to be unimportant. The point is we have outed the doc we can't afford to out the cop. I would also like to say we do likely have a sk (just not Jayne) in this game on top of the mafia so I would like to caution the vig not to be gun happy tonight as three town kills in the night with an exposed doc could cripple us.

[Anarkistsdream]

Too many people have "been around," as Talapus said, without bothering to play in this game. When they were voting me out of hand, such as sheep, but now that that avenue went away, they seem to have become eerily silent.

[Talapus]

Too many people have "been around," as Talapus said, without bothering to play in this game. When they were voting me out of hand, such as sheep, but now that that avenue went away, they seem to have become eerily silent.

Yep, with you out of the picture many players have taken a wait and see approach which will get us a no lynch situation and little conversation to go off of for day 2. Not a good way to start this game. Hopefully with the weekend here however some will decide to grace us with their presence.

[ShaggyDan]

Personally I'd still rather see a Day 1 lynch rather than a no lynch, and that's why my vote will remain on Anarkists. I outlined my points on why earlier, and I still think it's the best case to go forward. A NL hurts us more than helps us, we don't need to verify any claims. More than likely we'll be in the same situation tomorrow (possibly with Simon or Inara dead). The only way a NL could help us is through any kind of investigative role, but with protection already pre-occupied they may not come out anyway.

I can't see my thoughts on Anarkists being much different tomorrow. Even if you take away flavour spec I still don't think the timing of the claim was something town would do. It's extremely anti-town to just up and claim at the drop of a hat (or in this case the drop of some very small pressure).

Not lynching today is giving mafia/serial killers a free kill IMO.

I've been silent because I've already said every point I can about my reasons for voting Anarkists. No point in repeating them.

[edocsil]

deadline in about 26 hrs.

[Anarkistsdream]

Personally I'd still rather see a Day 1 lynch rather than a no lynch, and that's why my vote will remain on Anarkists. I outlined my points on why earlier, and I still think it's the best case to go forward. A NL hurts us more than helps us, we don't need to verify any claims. More than likely we'll be in the same situation tomorrow (possibly with Simon or Inara dead). The only way a NL could help us is through any kind of investigative role, but with protection already pre-occupied they may not come out anyway.

I can't see my thoughts on Anarkists being much different tomorrow. Even if you take away flavour spec I still don't think the timing of the claim was something town would do. It's extremely anti-town to just up and claim at the drop of a hat (or in this case the drop of some very small pressure).

Not lynching today is giving mafia/serial killers a free kill IMO.

I've been silent because I've already said every point I can about my reasons for voting Anarkists. No point in repeating them.

And when I come up town and you are on the chopping block, you'll just keep saying the same thing, and, in the end, that will just be two townies and two nights gone. You are actually pulling a very stereotypical mafia move by doing this...

[DoomYoshi]

Personally I'd still rather see a Day 1 lynch rather than a no lynch, and that's why my vote will remain on Anarkists. I outlined my points on why earlier, and I still think it's the best case to go forward. A NL hurts us more than helps us, we don't need to verify any claims. More than likely we'll be in the same situation tomorrow (possibly with Simon or Inara dead). The only way a NL could help us is through any kind of investigative role, but with protection already pre-occupied they may not come out anyway.

I can't see my thoughts on Anarkists being much different tomorrow. Even if you take away flavour spec I still don't think the timing of the claim was something town would do. It's extremely anti-town to just up and claim at the drop of a hat (or in this case the drop of some very small pressure).

Not lynching today is giving mafia/serial killers a free kill IMO.

I've been silent because I've already said every point I can about my reasons for voting Anarkists. No point in repeating them.

And when I come up town and you are on the chopping block, you'll just keep saying the same thing, and, in the end, that will just be two townies and two nights gone. You are actually pulling a very stereotypical mafia move by doing this...

I think it is fair that since you have made mistakes, and admitted to them, that you present the final case of the day. Sort of as an apology.